Chiefs - Jets Agree to Darron Lee trade

[Warfish]

10 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Tom Brady - Terrell Davis

6th round picks.... ya never know.

 

Now name all the 6th round picks who did piss all.

Yes, we do...generally, mostly, in the vast majority....know.

[slats]

3 minutes ago, 82nd Airborne said:

The Jets’ other option was retaining Lee as a backup/coverage linebacker in 2019, while hoping to get a compensatory pick for him next offseason, when he signed elsewhere. But that compensatory pick was never going to be a lock, so Gase opted to get what he could now.-NJO

Said this earlier. If the best they could hope for is a 5th round comp pick in 2021, a late 6th round pick in 2020 is fine. 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

More likely a player that starts on a team for years because the FO and former coach are trying to save face for the fact they wasted a first round puck on a guy who’s not good at all. Trust me, Darren Lee will not be in the league in 2020.


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In that case the trade will look better in hindsight.

Right now he's a physically healthy, 24 year-old, 3 year starter coming off a glorious top-25 PFF ranking lol.

Not everyone sees him as talentless. This time in 2017 no one was offering a 2nd rounder for Richardson. At the end of the summer Seattle made the calculation that they'd probably/hopefully recoup a 3rd round comp pick a year later so they weren't giving up much even if they didn't extend him. Sometimes situations and perceptions change that cause a player's value to rise higher than it was 3 weeks after the draft.

Or he could be in rehab in KC in a month and never plays again. Too early to say.

[Snell41]

In that case the trade will look better in hindsight.

Right now he's a physically healthy, 24 year-old, 3 year starter coming off a glorious top-25 PFF ranking lol.

Not everyone sees him as talentless. This time in 2017 no one was offering a 2nd rounder for Richardson. At the end of the summer Seattle made the calculation that they'd probably/hopefully recoup a 3rd round comp pick a year later so they weren't giving up much even if they didn't extend him. Sometimes situations and perceptions change that cause a player's value to rise higher than it was 3 weeks after the draft.

Or he could be in rehab in KC in a month and never plays again. Too early to say.

 

Actually pretty much the entire league sees him as talentless. For a 24yo “pff top 25” player you’d think there’d be some offers. Nobody wants this guy playing LB for them. Victor Hobson was a 2nd round pick starter for us for years, had some decent stats and was 27 when we cut him. Pats took a look, cut him in camp and he was out of the league. Quentin Coples has some reasonable stats too, out of the league shortly after we cut him.

 

The indictment is the fact we took him and started him in the first place, not that we got nothing in return.

 

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[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

"on paper" is a myth.   The value in a market is determined by what buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept.   I am sure the Jets contacted 28 teams to unload Lee and this is the best that they could do. 

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Macc had a slightly better draft day offer that he rejected to save face for yet another bad draft pick but Lee's value dropped significantly once the Jets signed Mosely so he's worth what they received in return.   

On paper how many teams do you imagine offered up a future 2nd round pick for Sheldon Richardson in May of 2017? I'm sure they contacted just as many teams for him as they did for Lee, and have a hard time believing they passed on that only to grudgingly accept it 3+ months later. 

On paper is the value of the pick. A pick that can be used this year has the "on paper" value of a pick a round higher next year; inversely, a pick next year has the value of a round lower this year. That is how NFL teams make those trades. Like when Macc traded a 5th rounder in 2017 for a 4th rounder in 2016 so he could draft Shell. It's a commonly used value.

A late 6th round pick a season later = a late 7th rounder this year. KC gets a player this year; we don't get our pick until a year later.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

Actually pretty much the entire league sees him as talentless. For a 24yo “pff top 25” player you’d think there’d be some offers. Nobody wants this guy playing LB for them. Victor Hobson was a 2nd round pick starter for us for years, had some decent stats and was 27 when we cut him. Pats took a look, cut him in camp and he was out of the league. Quentin Coples has some reasonable stats too, out of the league shortly after we cut him.

 

The indictment is the fact we took him and started him in the first place, not that we got nothing in return.

 

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Coples also got a contract from another team before that team cut him. FFS the year he got here Maccagnan exercised his 5th year option after seeing him from afar in Houston. No different.

I don't have a high opinion of Lee and never have. That said, there are surely worse starters out there. 

Is Osemele trash? All Oakland got was a 5th rounder and gave up their own 6th rounder to even get that.

[jeremy2020]

I think Lee had more value on the team than for a 6th, but we're talking 3 pennies to 2 pennies.

[varjet]

It appears that Gase liked to run decent players out of town to make a statement.  I don’t think that this arises to that, but hopefully Gase is not allowed to do that.

I think Lee is an example of someone who was just not going to culturally fit with Gase/Gregg and what the Jets wanted to do.  The difference between what the Jets are getting for him and what the best case scenario was is neglible.  He was not going to start or play special teams.   He was not going to add more value than Cashman and Hewitt.  He was costing at least an extra $1mm.  I am not worried about him playing on another team and looking good. 

I am not going to worry or second guess this trade anymore.  It is good for the Jets and good for Lee as a person, even if I think he is a knucklehead.  

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, varjet said:

It appears that Gase liked to run decent players out of town to make a statement.  I don’t think that this arises to that, but hopefully Gase is not allowed to do that.

I think Lee is an example of someone who was just not going to culturally fit with Gase/Gregg and what the Jets wanted to do.  The difference between what the Jets are getting for him and what the best case scenario was is neglible.  He was not going to start or play special teams.   He was not going to add more value than Cashman and Hewitt.  He was costing at least an extra $1mm.  I am not worried about him playing on another team and looking good. 

I am not going to worry or second guess this trade anymore.  It is good for the Jets and good for Lee as a person, even if I think he is a knucklehead.  

once he was suspended for drugs his trade value went down substantially.  combine this with unimpressive production and he's an undersized jag with off field issues.  

[Jetmech]

Read where KC believes Lee is the best cover LB in the league yet they didn’t feel he was worth a lousy 5th round pick?


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[Bleedin Green]

26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You don't understand? So no young players who previously looked sucky under substandard coaching will improve by virtue of Gase's (and/or Williams's) coaching. That is your inference, to which I was alluding. 

I think it's presumptuous to guess reasons why Crazy Eyes wants or doesn't want anything just yet.

I wanted Maccagnan gone. I'm happy he is gone, even if it's years late. That doesn't therefore make Gase a good GM, nor even a better one than the dufus he's interim-replacing. If Macc rather than Gase had traded Lee for a late 6th round pick a full season later I'd be no less critical, and I sense many are giving Gase an unearned benefit of the doubt here. 

Sometimes a player has more value to a team than he has on a trade market. Especially when teams are flooded with 90-player rosters after the FA wave and draft is over. I'd have waited for an injury to any of 31 other teams (including KC), as I don't see the rush to move him in mid-May. But I'm not coaching the team so admittedly I have that luxury.

While I agree there was potential to get more for him at some point, it was far from a guarantee, and at this point it almost seems to have been a foregone conclusion that Lee was not going to be on the team this year (how good/bad of a mindset that is, is another argument).  If that's truly the case, I don't think this is a great coup, but not a big negative either.  That is of course assuming this is an outlier, and not any type of regular occurrence to come, which would of course mean very different things.

From my perspective, as low-value as 6th round pick may be, I would give no support to the Jets trading theirs for a player on a one-year deal, that they would have no interest in extending, who would be definitively locked into a backup role at a position the team has already invested excessive /  record-breaking amounts of money in multiple starters, plus added backup FA signings/draft picks as well.  That's what the Jets would ultimately be doing by turning down the deal, so I don't really blame them too much.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Bleedin Green said:

While I agree there was potential to get more for him at some point, it was far from a guarantee, and at this point it almost seems to have been a foregone conclusion that Lee was not going to be on the team this year (how good/bad of a mindset that is, is another argument).  If that's truly the case, I don't think this is a great coup, but not a big negative either.  That is of course assuming this is an outlier, and not any type of regular occurrence to come, which would of course mean very different things.

From my perspective, as low-value as 6th round pick may be, I would give no support to the Jets trading theirs for a player on a one-year deal, that they would have no interest in extending, who would be definitively locked into a backup role at a position the team has already invested excessive /  record-breaking amounts of money in multiple starters, plus added backup FA signings/draft picks as well.  That's what the Jets would ultimately be doing by turning down the deal, so I don't really blame them too much.

also factored into this was that they probably already knew lee was going to be a malcontent and a bad presence in the locker room.  why would gase and williams want to start off knowing that they were going to have to get rid of this guy?

[choon328]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Osemele is a 30 year-old (or he will be next month) who makes $10M this year and $12M the year after, coming off a bad season for him.

Lee is a physically healthy, speedy 24 year-old who makes $2M. While still unworthy of his draft slot, he was coming off his best season, with visible improvement from year 1 to year 2 to year 3. If he has even a half-decent season this year as starter he'll get a veteran contract and the acquiring team (KC) can recoup more in a comp pick than they surrendered to get him in the first place.

It's not apples to apples.

Disappointment as he was for a 20th overall pick, he was a cheap backup player with years of starting experience, who can obviously start in a pinch should one of our 2 expensive starters go down, or show value in other defensive looks.

Maccagnan was a bad GM, but the only way this is a good trade is if it's being done to show who's the boss and have name players on their toes respecting his authority, and if it has that desired effect on the team. Or maybe if there's something even more that's wrong with Lee from the neck up that we don't know about yet. On paper Lee had more value to keep him than a late 6th rounder next season (trade value of a late 7th rounder this year, since we don't get to use that pick this season). 

The Jets will be active in FA again next year, especially with a new GM, so they won't receive any comp picks again in 2021 for Lee or anybody. If a player is on the last year of his deal and you have no plans to keep him then it makes more sense to move him now for an asset then lose him for nothing in FA. It's a pretty simple concept that pretty much every successful team utilizes. 

[Jet Life]

Hewitt stepped in fine last year when Lee was too busy being suspended for drugs. Think Mosley, Avery, Hewitt and Cashman are more than fine at ILB. See ya Lee

[choon328]

It's going to get crazy here when Leo and Robbie get traded.

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The Jets will be active in FA again next year, especially with a new GM, so they won't receive any comp picks again in 2021 for Lee or anybody. If a player is on the last year of his deal and you have no plans to keep him then it makes more sense to move him now for an asset then lose him for nothing in FA. It's a pretty simple concept that pretty much every successful team utilizes. 

It depends how the new GM operates.

The Eagles (read Joe Douglas) have been pretty successful at trading for players during the season on the least year of their deal. They spend relative peanuts, then when they player does not re-sign, they are able to nab a comp pick.

Of course, this does not operate in a vacuum and there are other factors, but Mac has been horrible at this practice.

[Sperm Edwards]

12 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

While I agree there was potential to get more for him at some point, it was far from a guarantee, and at this point it almost seems to have been a foregone conclusion that Lee was not going to be on the team this year (how good/bad of a mindset that is, is another argument).  If that's truly the case, I don't think this is a great coup, but not a big negative either.  That is of course assuming this is an outlier, and not any type of regular occurrence to come, which would of course mean very different things.

From my perspective, as low-value as 6th round pick may be, I would give no support to the Jets trading theirs for a player on a one-year deal, that they would have no interest in extending, who would be definitively locked into a backup role at a position the team has already invested excessive /  record-breaking amounts of money in multiple starters, plus added backup FA signings/draft picks as well.  That's what the Jets would ultimately be doing by turning down the deal, so I don't really blame them too much.

It's already a bigger deal than I'd have made of it, but it seems like more as I was responding to multiple people. Plus I'm an argumentative prick.

I certainly don't think his value would have ballooned up to a 2nd rounder if only we'd waited a few months.

If they wanted to make a statement, this lowered return is part of the cost. It may prove worth the cost, and I hope it does.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The Jets will be active in FA again next year, especially with a new GM, so they won't receive any comp picks again in 2021 for Lee or anybody. If a player is on the last year of his deal and you have no plans to keep him then it makes more sense to move him now for an asset then lose him for nothing in FA. It's a pretty simple concept that pretty much every successful team utilizes. 

I was referring to KC recouping a comp pick later, not the Jets.

Also see my post just above this. 

[slats]

14 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The Jets will be active in FA again next year, especially with a new GM, so they won't receive any comp picks again in 2021 for Lee or anybody. If a player is on the last year of his deal and you have no plans to keep him then it makes more sense to move him now for an asset then lose him for nothing in FA. It's a pretty simple concept that pretty much every successful team utilizes. 

The Jets have something like 20 players on one-year or the last year of their deals on the roster. Even if they're active in free agency, they could still wind up losing more free agents than they sign. If they plan on letting guys like Leo and/or Robby walk, they'll need to make sure they sign fewer free agents to make sure they get those comp picks. 

[Joejet]

There seems to be a lot of drama about what we received for a player that 90% of the board has hated since he arrived. 

[Il Mostro]

"Crazy Eyes" as even acting GM is bizarre, but sooooo Jetsy.

[shuler82]

Lee is a LB who shies away from contact, and who until an outlier last season where he grabbed an INT, was regarded as a liability in coverage.  I have a feeling he's not going to suddenly be unleashed as an all-pro in KC. 

[slimjasi]

Gase be like

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

He can't, but he can reduce Bell to a limited role.

Bell is a workhorse and should be a focus of the offense, I personally didn't care for the move and in fact agree with Gase that in these days big money spent on a RB is not money well spent...but...he's here and we've spent the money.

Now use him and abuse him.  If Bell gets a limited roll in this offense because he's not one of Gase's "guys", I'll be ******* furious. 

There's no chance Gase doesn't use Bell as much as he can.  What's he gonna do, send Eli McGuire out there?  Please. 

[Villain The Foe]

14 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Gase proved hes beter then mac 6 hours into the job.  Sweet!

Haha

Dude, POTW for sure! 

[Jet Life]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's no chance Gase doesn't use Bell as much as he can.  What's he gonna do, send Eli McGuire out there?  Please. 

Gase likes Bell he just didnt like the price. He will 100% use Bell. We have nothing to worry about.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

Gase likes Bell he just didnt like the price. He will 100% use Bell. We have nothing to worry about.

Yep.  Both Gase and Bell are basically guaranteed to be together thru 2020 based on the financials of the situation.  They'll make it work. 

[kevinc855]

Imagine what you all been saying if Mac was the one who gave up Lee for some trash 6th rounder? 

Exactly...

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Just keep him?

He’s been a bust but he was still an asset, especially in coverage. 

He was far from an asset, and had we kept him, we would have let him go for nothing.  Might as well get something for him now given that he was never going to have a significant role on this team in 2019.  Gregg Williams wasn't going to use him much at all, and his role in this trade was just as big as Gase's role. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, New York Mick said:

He’s not late 6th round bad. 

Players are worth what teams are willing to pay. 

[Snell41]

Imagine what you all been saying if Mac was the one who gave up Lee for some trash 6th rounder? 
Exactly...

I’d have no problem with it all, except the fact he should’ve done it before this years draft so we could actually have some value in return on the field this year.


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[joewilly12]

Darron Lee was another #1 pick draft day bust like so many others..............whats the big deal 

BEEN THERE DONE THAT 

Next man up.

[kevinc855]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Darron Lee was another #1 pick draft day bust like so many others..............whats the big deal 

BEEN THERE DONE THAT 

Next man up.

I’m sorry he’s coming off a decent year with tackles and interceptions. Worth way more then a 6th. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Lee was so misused and out of position it was ridiculous. Does that mean Im sticking up for him or think he may do better in another scenario ? No . But how many times do we have to see players out of position on this team ? That sh*ts getting Old and Both Rex and Bowles were doing it at a stupid rate. 

Gregg Williams saw no use for Darron Lee.  What does that tell you?

[Snell41]

I’m sorry he’s coming off a decent year with tackles and interceptions. Worth way more then a 6th. 

Funny, he’d be worth more if teams were clamoring to offer more. His problem is he doesn’t have a position, he’s a liability as a LB


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