Whether you are happy Mac is gone or not

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

8 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Maybe Chris Johnson thought bowles was the only problem. Maybe he came to the realization that it was a mistake to keep Macc.

Sure the timing was bad. He should have been fired with bowles. But he is gone and that's a good thing.

Macc was a terrible talent evaluater. There's a difference between picking players and building a team. Macc doesn't know how to construct a team.  In the end, he was 24-40 here. (Idzik was 12-20)

We may look "incompetent" but that's because of the timing. Not because of the move itself. 

Of my goodness how could they fire a guy with the SAME 37% Winning percentage as Idzik but over TWICE THE TIME PERIOD.

Oh and the last 3 years was 26%...14-40.

The only person who likes that is Bruce Arians who I heard say that Bowles was doing an “outstanding job” on a broadcast last year, maybe Arians will give Maccagnan a scouting job?

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Really? You probably  think the Captain of the Titanic made a great call by abandoning  ship after he hit the iceberg 

Cowbell, you were doing great, until the "Captain of the Titanic" analogy.  First he did not "hit the iceberg".  At the time of the collision, he was nowhere near the bridge.  Secondly, he did not "abandon ship".  He went down with her, and perished with the rest of the victims. 

In fact, Captain Edward Smith was amongst the most experienced and well respected Captains in the White Star Line. He remained on deck and supervised the removal of passengers from the ship.  Word is that his last act was to save a child.

Hope this helps you out.  Now back to our regularly scheduled disaster...…..

[Dcat]

28 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

That is possibly the worst analogy I have ever heard. When you have an incompetent  person. In an office and you remove them, things change because hopefully you now have a competent  person there doing  the work. What work did Mac not do that is going to make a difference  next year and even the year after that? He did everything already. His job was over except.for negotiating some contracts.. Firing him now or at the end of this season has no effect on the outcome of the season except for the team looking like a freaking joke. 

Keeping a lame-duck GM around in the building would not  be an okay thing. What would he do all day?  Play with his dirty coffee cups?  His job would be to start setting up for the next draft and dammit why would you or any Jets fan want this doofus, of all people,  in charge of managing yet another scouting season and draft research? So we just have to agree to disagree.   vehemently.  

[TheMo]

38 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

That is possibly the worst analogy I have ever heard. When you have an incompetent  person. In an office and you remove them, things change because hopefully you now have a competent  person there doing  the work. What work did Mac not do that is going to make a difference  next year and even the year after that? He did everything already. His job was over except.for negotiating some contracts.. Firing him now or at the end of this season has no effect on the outcome of the season except for the team looking like a freaking joke. 

Here is a better analogy as a physician. You're a diabetic and you get a small skin wound. Now instead of immediately taking it seriously you don't really worry about it. So it becomes a necrotic toe wound. Now you can worry about your doc scolding you that you should have taken it seriously to begin with and not go in. Or you could go in and you get the toe taken off. Better than letting it get even worse and now your end up with a total below knee amputation. 

This is the idea of sunk cost. Mccagnan needed to go but they have him a shot at free agency. Maybe they didn't like how everything turned out but rather than letting him stay to impact scouting/extensions further they got rid of him now. For example what if he extended Leo early to a sizable contact. Now you're kicking yourself for not showing him the door sooner. If you realize you made a mistake you have to move on. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

Here's where we should be concerned...  No one should cry for Mike Maccagnan.  The case for his dismissal is well documented and well deserved.  What is disconcerting is that Chris Johnson has been "steering" the ship for the better part of two years, and has just most recently become "woke" [boy do I hate that phrase} to the incompetence and lack of "vision" shown by our ex GM.  What the f*ck was he doing prior to this?

It is true that Adam Gase has a significant amount of power within the organization as it stands today.  It is also true that the next GM, reportedly his confidant who is an assistant with the Eagles, will work closely with him.  If he holds superior sway over the next GM, remains to be seen.  Chris Johnson has stated that his preference is for a strong "leader", with charisma, and "vision".  Mike Maccagnan, certainly was not that.  Apparently Johnson's attendance during this offseason, during the free agent and draft periods was enlightening.  Let's hope so.  Despite the strong free agent class, and perceived successful draft, he deemed that a change still was warranted.  That most likely is a good thing.

What this also does is put Adam Gase on notice.  He was obviously a factor in this change.  His clock is now ticking.  He'd better be right.  In any event this will expedite the process.  We won't have to wait four years to see if this one is going off the tracks.  From my perspective that is a good thing.

The other bothersome thing about this whole scenario is the leaking of Gase' displeasure with the structure of the current roster, and the financial implications behind the contracts awarded to a few of our "big ticket" free agent acquisitions.  Telling new players, who have already been signed, that they are being "overpaid" is not the best way to ask them to go to war for you.  This perceived "damage" needs to be addressed and repaired quickly.  If not this can turn into a fiasco.  And that will be on Gase.

I like the current roster, and am looking forward to the season.  That has not changed.  What has changed is that the "concerns" about the dynamic of the "organizational structure" and hierarchy now seem well founded.  As for the "public perception", and the "press",  F'em.  Don't care.  When has it ever been "stylish" to be a Jet Fan.  "Just another day in Paradise".

 

[adb280z]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

31 other NFL teams to root for. 

It's not easy to change loyalties.  That said this team is one of the worst run franchises in North American sports so it's tempting sometimes.

[Eaton Beaver]

I get a kick out of these mac supporters now insinuating that he was a good GM. That he had a great draft, what a joke. I hope they win big this year, but it will not be because of him, it will be because we finally have a qb and we finally have competent coaches. We don't even know why both mac and Heimerdinger were fired together, obviously there is more to this story. Lets just slow down here and see what happens now, hopefully they hire a competent GM. The bottom line is mac had to go and the timing doesn't matter.

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 hours ago, BallinPB said:

So what happens if we do well this year and in particular, the draft picks and FA signings Mac had come up big?  Is it still a good decision that we fired him?  This is why I feel it was a bad idea to do it now.  Just my opinion but you shouldve just kept him to see how everything panned out this season.  These are his players we are going to play with this season.

Thus continues the 1000 year rebuild...we have to see how this turns out..

 

Ah no. Results or we get someone else that can get them

[EM31]

1 hour ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Cowbell, you were doing great, until the "Captain of the Titanic" analogy.  First he did not "hit the iceberg".  At the time of the collision, he was nowhere near the bridge.  Secondly, he did not "abandon ship".  He went down with her, and perished with the rest of the victims. 

In fact, Captain Edward Smith was amongst the most experienced and well respected Captains in the White Star Line. He remained on deck and supervised the removal of passengers from the ship.  Word is that his last act was to save a child.

Hope this helps you out.  Now back to our regularly scheduled disaster...…..

I agree with all of this.  Well said.  Especially including the part where More Cowbell had been doing quite well up until now.

To the fire Macacgnan zealots out there let me first say that I agree with you on the merits of that position.   He should have been gone.  But just because you people finally got what you wanted today does not mean that all of us should overlook the obvious dysfunction that still exists within the organization because of how and when all this went down.  That dysfunctions still remains, it was the essence of the OP and it was spot on

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Today is confirmation that this organization is as dysfunctional  as ever. 

I don't  care if Mac sucked as a GM, it made absolutely  no sense to fire him now. Things were actually taking on the resemblance of a team and front office that seemed to have a plan and was putting it together. Today the Jets ripped all that up. We are once again the most screwed up team in NY from an organization  standpoint. If they were going to fire Mac, after he picks a new HC, spends tens of millions in FA, and just completed a draft where he had the #3 selection was not the time. Mac should have been shown the door the day after the season ended. He did nothing to make a case for keeping his job except draft Darnold which he did deserve credit for. Most of the time putting a FQB on your team buys you a year and I think he deserved to see it through for making the moves that landed him but I would not have been shocked if he was canned along with Bowles. Nobody would have, but what happened today is freaking as dysfunctional as anything that ever happened in the NFL. 

This team is a freaking joke. 

Completely IDIOTIC stance.  Our owner taking so long to realize that he sucks took too long but actually other than end of season this is the best time to fire a GM. It gives the GM a full year to go through the process and the new college player process is a May to April event. So the transition to new scouting staff and process is smooth,  But in your world, you want to keep a GM that sucks, just because now is not the time to fire him. Complete and utter nonsense. I suspect you were a Mac supporter, or possibly one of the dinosaurs here that still think football is all about running the ball and stopping the run, which was clearly Macs priority. I have heard this take a lot and it is idiotic. It's not like a GMs  duties end after the draft, keeping Mac once you realize he needs to go hurts this team WAY more than any optic of "timing" for the firing. Jets fans. Mac being fired is frickin party worthy.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

What impact did firing him today have?

 What did it fix? 

Mac's fingerprints are all over this team primarily  because of this offseason

It stopped Mac from doing any further damage. Man you make ZERO sense.

[Villain The Foe]

On 5/16/2019 at 5:14 AM, tfine said:

The media is just pissed off because they feel lied too and they are peddling the circus narrative. Whether the timing was bad or not, We didn’t fire Ron wolf or Ozzie Newsome. It’s funny that every move the Jets make Is so controversial...even trading a non pro bowl underachieving LB is scrutinized.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

 

No, this time the scrutiny is justified.

Macc should have been fired on Black Monday. The Jets waited until May....after hiring a new coach, after free agency, after signing blockbuster deals that the new coach didnt agree with and after drafting players the coach didnt agree with.

Now its clear why Gase was nowhere to be found during the draft. 

This offseason was a complete circus. 

Now we have a GM in Gase that many said during his signing "He'll be great for Darnold and the offense, as long as we keep him away from making GM decisions".

THAT guy is now the GM. 

It's a sh*t show, and many folks knew it the moment Macc wasn't fired in January. Complete stupidity by ownership.

[More Cowbell]

5 hours ago, Dcat said:

Keeping a lame-duck GM around in the building would not  be an okay thing. What would he do all day?  Play with his dirty coffee cups?  His job would be to start setting up for the next draft and dammit why would you or any Jets fan want this doofus, of all people,  in charge of managing yet another scouting season and draft research? So we just have to agree to disagree.   vehemently.  

It still wouldn't matter. He already made this his team and even if you bring in a competent  GM, it would still be his team until the contracts he gave.out are over. Bell is his guy, Mosley, his guy, Darnold, his QB, Gase, his HC, QW his pick. Etc

 

[More Cowbell]

4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Completely IDIOTIC stance.  Our owner taking so long to realize that he sucks took too long but actually other than end of season this is the best time to fire a GM. It gives the GM a full year to go through the process and the new college player process is a May to April event. So the transition to new scouting staff and process is smooth,  But in your world, you want to keep a GM that sucks, just because now is not the time to fire him. Complete and utter nonsense. I suspect you were a Mac supporter, or possibly one of the dinosaurs here that still think football is all about running the ball and stopping the run, which was clearly Macs priority. I have heard this take a lot and it is idiotic. It's not like a GMs  duties end after the draft, keeping Mac once you realize he needs to go hurts this team WAY more than any optic of "timing" for the firing. Jets fans. Mac being fired is frickin party worthy.

Dude, I have been saying all along he should have been fired with Bowles and the only reason he wasn't  was he got us Darnold. If that is supporting the guy, I have a dictionary you can use to look the word up. 

[Butterfield]

It will be fun to do this all over again in 2 or 3 years.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Yes, he should have been fired with tooodddd

after that draft i am very happy he is fired today, he regressed and the draft proved it

sadly it looks like the circus is back - not happy about that but not sure there was a better option - just hope Gase provides support for Darnold and Bell (will set this team back 10 years if Gase tries to unwind some of these deals)

[Jethead]

13 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Here's where we should be concerned...  No one should cry for Mike Maccagnan.  The case for his dismissal is well documented and well deserved.  What is disconcerting is that Chris Johnson has been "steering" the ship for the better part of two years, and has just most recently become "woke" [boy do I hate that phrase} to the incompetence and lack of "vision" shown by our ex GM.  What the f*ck was he doing prior to this?

It is true that Adam Gase has a significant amount of power within the organization as it stands today.  It is also true that the next GM, reportedly his confidant who is an assistant with the Eagles, will work closely with him.  If he holds superior sway over the next GM, remains to be seen.  Chris Johnson has stated that his preference is for a strong "leader", with charisma, and "vision".  Mike Maccagnan, certainly was not that.  Apparently Johnson's attendance during this offseason, during the free agent and draft periods was enlightening.  Let's hope so.  Despite the strong free agent class, and perceived successful draft, he deemed that a change still was warranted.  That most likely is a good thing.

What this also does is put Adam Gase on notice.  He was obviously a factor in this change.  His clock is now ticking.  He'd better be right.  In any event this will expedite the process.  We won't have to wait four years to see if this one is going off the tracks.  From my perspective that is a good thing.

The other bothersome thing about this whole scenario is the leaking of Gase' displeasure with the structure of the current roster, and the financial implications behind the contracts awarded to a few of our "big ticket" free agent acquisitions.  Telling new players, who have already been signed, that they are being "overpaid" is not the best way to ask them to go to war for you.  This perceived "damage" needs to be addressed and repaired quickly.  If not this can turn into a fiasco.  And that will be on Gase.

I like the current roster, and am looking forward to the season.  That has not changed.  What has changed is that the "concerns" about the dynamic of the "organizational structure" and hierarchy now seem well founded.  As for the "public perception", and the "press",  F'em.  Don't care.  When has it ever been "stylish" to be a Jet Fan.  "Just another day in Paradise".

 

Nice summary.

Finally, it's still all about Sam. If he's got "it" and delivers everything else is noise.

[JohnnyLV]

7 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Dude, I have been saying all along he should have been fired with Bowles and the only reason he wasn't  was he got us Darnold. If that is supporting the guy, I have a dictionary you can use to look the word up. 

So why be all bent out of shape when he gets fired, I dont get it

[More Cowbell]

3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

So why be all bent out of shape when he gets fired, I dont get it

What I'm bent out of shape about is this team for the first time since I have been rooting for this team, seemed to have a plan and it seemed like they were executing it, but the freaking owner did something to remind us how screwed up we still are. If Woody or CJ had doubts, they should have never let Mac spend the FA money, run the draft, and pick the HC. 

Firing him now was a classic, oh, he really screwed all this up. I guess now we will dump him even though it is impossible  to undo anything he just did. 

 

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

What I'm bent out of shape about is this team for the first time since I have been rooting for this team, seemed to have a plan and it seemed like they were executing it, but the freaking owner did something to remind us how screwed up we still are. If Woody or CJ had doubts, they should have never let Mac spend the FA money, run the draft, and pick the HC. 

Firing him now was a classic, oh, he really screwed all this up. I guess now we will dump him even though it is impossible  to undo anything he just did. 

 

What Mac did in the offseason in no way represented what Johnson said we would do and frankly what McCoffee did is completely bereft of any plan. Mac had to go. Would it be better if Johnson recognized it on Black Monday? Sure, but we can't change the past and all you can do is the best decision for the current time and that was firing our loser GM.

[HighPitch]

21 hours ago, BallinPB said:

Think about it, at this point if the team is successful this season it would be a good part IN SPITE OF MAC of Macc and we just fired him.  

This is his team for the upcoming season and we fire him now?  Sad day for the franchise.

 

[HighPitch]

Jeez the guy sucked. He built nothing. Timing schmiming who cares. Were better now.

stop whining like a 9 year old that just had her first period in the middle of art class

[jgb]

Clap your hands 

[jgb]

My objective test for any Jets move has always been “if the Dolphins were doing the same thing, how would we react?”

Well, this time we know what Dolphins would do with Gase as HC: fire him.

[Creepy Lurker]

7 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Jeez the guy sucked. He built nothing. Timing schmiming who cares. Were better now.

stop whining like a 9 year old that just had her first period in the middle of art class

That would be disgusting finger painting. 

[Philc1]

It sounds like Mac didn’t want the embarrassment of trading Lee for table scraps and that was the breaking point

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Jeez the guy sucked. He built nothing. Timing schmiming who cares. Were better now.

stop whining like a 9 year old that just had her first period in the middle of art class

Yea hey seriously so when is the right time to fire a crappy GM?  Is there like a two week window in January when the jets play golf cuz that’s all they ever did while Mac was picking the personnel

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

What Mac did in the offseason in no way represented what Johnson said we would do and frankly what McCoffee did is completely bereft of any plan. Mac had to go. Would it be better if Johnson recognized it on Black Monday? Sure, but we can't change the past and all you can do is the best decision for the current time and that was firing our loser GM.

I think overall the jets had a good offseason.  It sounds like Gase was behind some of that and maybe that was the source of friction 

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I think overall the jets had a good offseason.  It sounds like Gase was behind some of that and maybe that was the source of friction 

I think the Jets offseaon was pretty bad. 

Moseley was a luxury hire that should have been capped slightly below Keuchly. We would not have gotten him for that so move on 

No one wanted Bell. We should have offered less with little impact if cut in a year. He is a huge question mark and not worth the salary risk.

Osemeke trade was decent but he is a band aid.

Crowder could be a decent starter but we overpaid.

Trying to also sign Barr was idiotic.

Huge dollars there and unless Bell is all pro, not huge impact. We we're already good against the run, and slot was not a gigantic first tier FA need.

In the draft, we drafted a replacement for Leo that will likely be a decent run stuffing tackle.

We took a huge flyer on an edge with single year performance and measurables that point to bust.

A developmental LT. Not terrible but not a high probability of success.

Our best pick was a blocking TE. 

We also drafted a replacement for Lee.

And a worthy gamble on a talented but often injured CB.

We did not address center, not enough at OT, and added no OL depth.

We gave big money to a decent WR that has never stayed healthy.

It all adds up to not much impact. This offseaon should have been all about  Darnold.

Mac's philosophy just does not align with modern football or what the Jets needed 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jgb]

The chances of all this working out well for the Jets are very, very low.

[jgb]

On 5/16/2019 at 2:45 PM, Villain The Foe said:

No, this time the scrutiny is justified.

Macc should have bee fired on Black Monday. The Jets waited until May....after hiring a new coach, after free agency, after signing blockbuster deals that the new coach didnt agree with and after drafting players the coach didnt agree with.

Now its clear why Gase was nowhere to be found during the draft. 

This offseason was a complete circus. 

Now we have a GM in Gase that many said during his signing "He'll be great for Darnold and the offense, as long as we keep him away from making GM decisions".

THAT guy is now the GM. 

It's a sh*t show, and many folks knew it the moment Macc wasn't fired in January. Complete stupidity by ownership.

Brilliant post. It’s like firing the chef between buying the groceries and dinner service.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I think the Jets offseason was pretty bad. 

Moseley was a luxury hire that should have been capped slightly below Keuchly. We would not have gotten him for that so move on 

No one wanted Bell. We should have offered less with little impact if cut in a year. He is a huge question mark and not worth the salary risk.

Osemeke trade was decent but he is a band aid.

Crowder could be a decent starter but we overpaid.

Trying to also sign Barr was idiotic.

Huge dollars there and unless Bell is all pro, not huge impact. We we're already good against the run, and slot was not a gigantic first tier FA need.

In the draft, we drafted a replacement for Leo that will likely be a decent run stuffing tackle.

We took a huge flyer on an edge with single year performance and measurables that point to bust.

A developmental LT. Not terrible but not a high probability of success.

Our best pick was a blocking TE. 

We also drafted a replacement for Lee.

And a worthy gamble on a talented but often injured CB.

We did not address center, not enough at OT, and added no OL depth.

We gave big money to a decent WR that has never stayed healthy.

It all adds up to not much impact. This offseaon should have been all about  Darnold.

Mac's philosophy just does not align with modern football or what the Jets needed 

Guy who did that should get fired and fans should be happy he was fired - right? 

Sounds like Johnson gave Mac a chance (because he did not know better and already admitted it was a mistake) and then fixed that mistake as soon as he figured it out - not ideal but better then continuing the mistake

If Bell and Mosley change the culture as much as I think they can, they were worth the money, sadly Mac's only trick to sign FA was to overpay (apparently not a sales guy) - let's not blame the players for taking the money

Even trader Mike sold the plan of building a winning team - even Idzik signed Decker without setting records...