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Albert Breer gets to the bottom of what happened


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4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The Johnsons have been at the heart of all this dysfunction.  I mentioned in another thread yesterday that because they have no real knowledge or real football connections in the league, they are not capable of hiring GMs or head coaches on their own.  That’s why we have seen the alternating HC, GM hiring and then the search firms that have produced some of the very worst hires this organization has ever made.  

Then, like you said, the publicity player signings that were driven by the Johnsons.   The ownership is dysfunctional and it trickles down to the front office.  It’s a shame that the Jets will still be one of the top revenue teams in the NFL despite all this, because there really isn’t any incentive for the Johnsons to change their ways.  Win, lose, front office turnover, HC changes, poor drafts, it all means little to the bottom line.  Johnsons still making hundreds of millions of dollars each year.  

Didn't you hear? They fired the guy who built this sh*tty team. So they're good now. I'm assured that this is how it works.

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2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The Johnsons have been at the heart of all this dysfunction.  I mentioned in another thread yesterday that because they have no real knowledge or real football connections in the league, they are not capable of hiring GMs or head coaches on their own.  That’s why we have seen the alternating HC, GM hiring and then the search firms that have produced some of the very worst hires this organization has ever made.  

Then, like you said, the publicity player signings that were driven by the Johnsons.   The ownership is dysfunctional and it trickles down to the front office.  It’s a shame that the Jets will still be one of the top revenue teams in the NFL despite all this, because there really isn’t any incentive for the Johnsons to change their ways.  Win, lose, front office turnover, HC changes, poor drafts, it all means little to the bottom line.  Johnsons still making hundreds of millions of dollars each year.  

I posted in another thread yesterday the links to the Jets organizational charts, and for example the Eagles organizational charts.

By comparison, the Jets pale embarrassingly in positions at the executive football personnel level. They are a Mickey Mouse organization in terms of structure. Having the owners then meddling only make matters worse. If this organization had to thrive in the free market on its own, without the benefit of the NFL entity to prop it up, it would whither on the vine.

The Jets are riding on the coattails of the NFL to prop up the organization. 

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15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Me neither!   Macc had no business getting an extension. Other than the easy 1st rounders that fell to him, did he really make an impact?   It's still the timing that bothers me.  Why couldn't we have hired Joe Douglas this offseason to run the draft and FA? 

macs overall draft record is really poor.  i'm not necessarily in agreement that the team needs to draft oline in the higher rounds but the whole statement about mac neglecting the oline is true and you'd think there'd be more than a couple of guys worth taking with 3rd round or higher picks.  and when mac does take oline in the third round the guy is more of a project than one who can step in right away.

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3 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Can't we say the same thing about most of the owners in the league except for Jerry Jones, The Rooney family and the Mara family?

Smart owners realize when they suck at football decisions. They then hire someone who actually understands football decisions. 

We are the Redskins, without numerous Lombardi's and a sense of history.

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1 minute ago, maury77 said:

Can't we say the same thing about most of the owners in the league except for Jerry Jones, The Rooney family and the Mara family?

The Rooneys and Maras are blue blood NFL families.  They’ve been around since the league came into existence.  They’re respected and have developed relationships for decades.  They have an established  hierarchy for their organization and stick to it.   Sometimes they get it wrong, but the org structure is much established.  

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1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

The Rooneys and Maras are blue blood NFL families.  They’ve been around since the league came into existence.  They’re respected and have developed relationships for decades.  They have an established  hierarchy for their organization and stick to it.   Sometimes they get it wrong, but the org structure is much established.  

That's my point. The Rooneys and Maras are knowledgable about football because the families have owned their respective teams for multiple generations. Jerry actually played football at Arkansas. I would assume that most of the other owners are businessman who probably don't know anymore about football than you or I do. 

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19 minutes ago, maury77 said:

That's my point. The Rooneys and Maras are knowledgable about football because the families have owned their respective teams for multiple generations. Jerry actually played football at Arkansas. I would assume that most of the other owners are businessman who probably don't know anymore about football than you or I do. 

I don’t think that really matters. Look at Arthur Blank, Steve Bischotti, Jeff Lurie, etc..

There are plenty of owners who run great franchises without a football background. 

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26 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The Rooneys and Maras are blue blood NFL families.  They’ve been around since the league came into existence.  They’re respected and have developed relationships for decades.  They have an established  hierarchy for their organization and stick to it.   Sometimes they get it wrong, but the org structure is much established.  

This is why the Johnson's will never be effective ownership. 19 years and they are neither of these. They suck.

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34 minutes ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

I don’t think that really matters. Look at Arthur Blank, Steve Bischotti, Jeff Lurie, etc..

There are plenty of owners who run great franchises without a football background. 

I agree with you, look at Kraft.

Here is my point: most NFL owners do not have decades of football knowledge before becoming owners. That being said, many of them still become successful even without decades of football knowledge or NFL connections when they started. 

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Ugh, wish I didnt read that article.  Gase truly sounds like an absolute turd who is impossible to work with in any fashion.

I went from; hating the Gase hire, to being somewhat encouraged by Gase after this news and now I'm back to, this dude is going to burn the whole city down. 

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18 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I agree with you, look at Kraft.

Here is my point: most NFL owners do not have decades of football knowledge before becoming owners. That being said, many of them still become successful even without decades of football knowledge or NFL connections when they started. 

Correct, but they are smart enough to hire people who do, and try to make connections and develop relationships within the league, so they don't have to hire headhunters and washed up tv jocks to make their decisions for them.

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23 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I agree with you, look at Kraft.

Here is my point: most NFL owners do not have decades of football knowledge before becoming owners. That being said, many of them still become successful even without decades of football knowledge or NFL connections when they started. 

Agreed.  But look at Arthur Blank and Stan Kroenke for example.  Blank has Rich McKay as President of football operations, a lifelong “football guy”.  Kroenke has Kevin Demoff as Exec. VP of Football operations, another football lifer.  Demoff and McKay both came up through scouting ranks, then player development then assistant GMs.  They know football.  Neil Glat, while a smart guy, has only been involved in the “business side” of the game.  The Jets desperately need a “football guy” to come in and oversee the operations.  He needs to be responsible for the GM hire and then be involved with the GM hiring the HC.   The current Jets structure will continue to yield the same dysfunction IMO.  It just doesn’t work.  

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

That's my point. The Rooneys and Maras are knowledgable about football because the families have owned their respective teams for multiple generations. Jerry actually played football at Arkansas. I would assume that most of the other owners are businessman who probably don't know anymore about football than you or I do. 

And Woody and Chrissy are both moronic trust fund babies who are misinformed and inept regarding everything not just sports

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7 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  But look at Arthur Blank and Stan Kroenke for example.  Blank has Rich McKay as President of football operations, a lifelong “football guy”.  Kroenke has Kevin Demoff as Exec. VP of Football operations, another football lifer.  Demoff and McKay both came up through scouting ranks, then player development then assistant GMs.  They know football.  Neil Glat, while a smart guy, has only been involved in the “business side” of the game.  The Jets desperately need a “football guy” to come in and oversee the operations.  He needs to be responsible for the GM hire and then be involved with the GM hiring the HC.   The current Jets structure will continue to yield the same dysfunction IMO.  It just doesn’t work.  

As long as the dysfunction leads to NFL riches, Woody doesn't care. It's an investment to him, and he could give a rats ass if the team is good, bad or indifferent.

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9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I think a coach determining how much he likes a player based on how that player produces is pretty common, though 

I was talking more about 'hedging their bets' so they can get credit or not look bad re certain players.  We see it here all the time on this forum.  "Oh we love Oliver!  But Quinnen is okay too."  3 years later "We told them to take Oliver, we loved the guy!"

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10 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

You don't develop a young qb when the GM ignores O line for 4 years and has him throwing to a bunch of UDFAs.....

 

Mac sucked. And he was actually HINDERING the development of the QB. (Spencer Long and Jonatthon Harrisin? Kelvin Beachum? LOL) Sam had stretches of games where he was literally working with 3-4 former UDFAs at WR. 

 

Pathetic. Good riddance.

Mac definitely was NOT a top drafting GM that is certain and if Gase already has a handshake agreement with Joe Douglas then everything has been blown out of proportion. But this is the Jets and NOTHING is as it seems here. If Douglas balks at coming to NYJ then it is a fiasco and the team will struggle to find a capable front office guy.

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1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

breer hates the jets, always pans their drafts. 

Breer comes from being a Patriots reporter, deep down he despises the Jets. No way in hell he reports on the Jets without deep seeded bias.

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I mean just reading this...sounds like the Jets are a landmine waiting to explode on any career on who takes a chance with it. 

If you're CJ you HAVE to take a step back once you land your guy and let them do what they have to do to make this team better. Otherwise you're gonna guys like Mac over and over again, since nobody respectful will risk their career on this team if they know you're gonna be over their shoulder trying to tinker things your way.  You're gonna continue to your 3rd or 4th choice where neither of you aren't in love but there's no other option. 

Unless ownership changes their way of thinking, we're kinda screwed and have to pray Darnold just overcomes this crap and still plays lights out for us. 

Honestly if I were Douglas I'd be pretty f'n hesitant to take this on. 

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2 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I mean just reading this...sounds like the Jets are a landmine waiting to explode on any career on who takes a chance with it. 

If you're CJ you HAVE to take a step back once you land your guy and let them do what they have to do to make this team better. Otherwise you're gonna guys like Mac over and over again, since nobody respectful will risk their career on this team if they know you're gonna be over their shoulder trying to tinker things your way. 

Honestly if I were Douglas I'd be pretty f'n hesitant to take this on. 

on the flip side what gm opening comes with rose pedals along the path?  at least here you have a real qb and a hc that a guy like douglas is theoretically aligned with.  the roster just stocked up with some nice FAs too.  

the hardest thing for a gm to do is get a qb to build around.  that's been done here.  all a gm needs to do here is understand that the OL needs more talent as does the wrs.  

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11 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

on the flip side what gm opening comes with rose pedals along the path?  at least here you have a real qb and a hc that a guy like douglas is theoretically aligned with.  the roster just stocked up with some nice FAs too.  

the hardest thing for a gm to do is get a qb to build around.  that's been done here.  all a gm needs to do here is understand that the OL needs more talent as does the wrs.  

None of them but it's not the roster that's the problem. It's the ownership and structure. 

They should be throwing everything they can at Douglas if he's cool with Gase. Sounds like any other match is not gonna be a perfect marriage. 

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3 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

None of them but it's not the roster that's the problem. It's the ownership and structure. 

They should be throwing everything they can at Douglas if he's cool with Gase. Sounds like any other match is not gonna be a perfect marriage. 

it sounds like gase needs to know the guy they bring in, and the new gm needs to understand how to work with gase.  

'at the end of the day' the jets will probably have a better gm than mccagnan but that's not saying much.  he was already regarded as one of if not the worst gm in the nfl.

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3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Smart owners realize when they suck at football decisions. They then hire someone who actually understands football decisions. 

like when they got Charlie Casserly and Ron Wolf to make decisions? The owner is going to hire the guy to make those decisions...the owner has to be involved in a football decision at some point.

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5 hours ago, jack48 said:

I am almost certain that hiring Greg Williams was forced on Gase.  williams is not abad coach at all but he is the ultimate distraction.  Will be interesting going forward.  I see him staying a year.

No way. The HC picks his staff. No Jets GM has such power. Gase’s father in law goes all the way back to the Saints Days with Williams. They’ve apparently made up. Gase is 100% in charge.

 

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37 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

like when they got Charlie Casserly and Ron Wolf to make decisions? The owner is going to hire the guy to make those decisions...the owner has to be involved in a football decision at some point.

Casserly and Wolfe were consultants. They took the money and ran. You have to have someone that n in the game makihng decisions for you and in concert when needed. 

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This article is surprisingly naive to me. How can you know how the coach and GM would work together? GM's DO get fired after the draft - you can't bring someone in right before it. They clearly didn't know they were going to fire Mac a few months ago. Should they just stick out a terrible situation? I would criticize them for that. Getting rid of a problem is not worthy of criticism. It's just the press having nothing else to write about.

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2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

And Woody and Chrissy are both moronic trust fund babies who are misinformed and inept regarding everything not just sports

I actually agree with you and @sec101row23. Guys like Blank are, I believe, self made millionairse who have the business experieence and knowledge to be conscious of what they should be delegating and what type of people that should hired. Guys like Woody and CJ, who inherited their money, don't have the business experience of starting from the ground with very little money and building a company up. 

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3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

breer hates the jets, always pans their drafts. 

So, he has been right since, what?  2007? 

2 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

Mac definitely was NOT a top drafting GM that is certain and if Gase already has a handshake agreement with Joe Douglas then everything has been blown out of proportion. But this is the Jets and NOTHING is as it seems here. If Douglas balks at coming to NYJ then it is a fiasco and the team will struggle to find a capable front office guy.

Handshake agreement?  An oral contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on. 

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12 hours ago, CTM said:

Gase being the man behind the Mosley signing is new information. Prior to that I heard he was against spending big money on ILB

Gase feels Mosley will be a culture changer on the D side as a poor man's Ray Lewis. Honestly we always blame our O, but 4-5 games last year the O had us ahead by a score with several minutes left and we lost cause the D couldn't make a stop. Every time I think back to big games i.e 1998 AFC Championship Victor Green goes to sleep and gives up a huge play to McCarffrey (Momentum turns we lose out on probably a sure SB vistory since we killed Atlanta earlier that year). OK, For the SB in 2009 Safety Leonard lets a WR get behind him and get a TD which turned the momentum since we were winning by 10 points prior to that.  For the SB in 2010 the D doesn't showup till the 2nd half against Pitt.  So, sorry to throw up 3 potential SB opportunities lost for us, but in every case had the D just locked down at those stages our history has a chance to be very different. Heck, imagine they actually had a culture changer that got us to win those games and maybe a few of those SBs?. Well Gase feels that way about Mosley, and with QWilliams, Adams, and if Polite can impress maybe the D can actually win big games at the end when the O has us ahead. We can't expect to win games especially big ones by 30+ points every week. I see this BS with dysfunction overblown. Get coaching and players to show friggen leadership for the money they are paid and stop using the damn ownership and front office as reasons for failure. There has been good enough players on this team to do a lot better than we have seen especially the last 4+ years.

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