What is more disappointing?

[jetstream23]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Nope.  You can put me in the camp that would have fired Macc years ago, or at the least, at the end of last season along with Bowles.

Folks can spin this any way they like, the Jets organization didn't handle it correctly. 

The outcome is fine (well, we'll see who they hire....), the methodology was horrendous and speaks to an ongoing fundamental mishandling of the organization and it's assets by the men in charge at the top.

Combine with the fact that Gase in no way shape or form warrants any GM title of any kind no matter how short-tenures, and yeah, there are legitimate reasons to be critical of how the move was made.  How.  Not that it was made.

I don't like the idea of letting revisionist history into the debates we're having in these threads.  Anyone can say, "I would have fired him months ago."  The real question I'm trying to get at is whether our fans are more upset with a good decision that's possibly made at the wrong time or seems a little messy because it makes the team look bad for a month?  Hindsight is 20/20.  I can ask a poll about whether the Jets should have drafted Darnold, Rosen or Allen and I'll get comments like, "They should have drafted Mahomes a couple years ago."   Sure...maybe they should have.  They also should have drafted Dan Marino in 1983 and Tom Brady in 2000.

I just don't like the idea that people who were begging for some things (firing Bowles, firing Macc, hiring an offensive HC, getting Darnold weapons, etc.) have now gotten ALL of those things but are now digging deeper into their bag of ways to complain about things and pulling out, "Yeah, but I didn't want him fired in May," or "Yeah, but not THIS offensive-minded HC," or "Yeah, but Bell is too expensive."

I recognize that this all may be aggravating me a little more than it should, but for a fanbase that has suffered as much as this one has it's difficult to understand how some people don't just want to get what they want.....they want it delivered to them perfectly.  Change is messy.  This will be a better football team with Maccagnan gone and replaced by someone who can work better with this HC.  I don't care if it looks ugly or that in the complete vacuum of NFL news in May we've now given the world a hot topic to crush the Jets for......I'm happy about any move that could make this team better.

A quote comes to mind when I hear the Macc haters now b!tching about how and when it was done....

Quote

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.  I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way." - Colonel Jessep, A Few Good Men.

 

[JustInFudge]

38 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean, I don't care what the fans think.

This was an embarrassing bungling of the situation by the organization. The obvious move was to fire Maccagnan along with Bowles in December. They stuck with him and allowed him to shape the roster then fired him after the coach he interviewed staged a coup -- and all of this was a product of the inane management structure the Johnsons have implemented in the first place which they are apparently continuing to roll with.

There are certainly fans who are overly negative and hate everything the team does but I find it baffling anyone could objectively not think the way this played out was idiotic.

Exactly. 

I'm happy Mac was removed.

I'm upset by the way it was handled, especially as more information is coming out about the situation and the dust hasnt even settled. 

 

[Creepy Lurker]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Good post.

I'm having a hard time understanding the crowd that's been given just about everything it has wanted for the past 12 months and is still finding things to violently complain about.  Sure, the firing wasn't perfect and looks a little messy, but how often are firings a pleasant experience that everyone agrees with?

There's a chorus of Jets fans that has been asking for Bowles to be fired (done), hiring an offensive-minded HC (done), getting Darnold some offensive weapons (done) and firing Maccagnan (done), etc.  We've got people getting the precise Christmas gift they've wanted.....and they're b!tching about the wrapping paper.  Oh well, I don't get it.

I think many pro mac/homer fans are just stirring the pot with fans reacting to the news. They are Trying to put a SOJF spin on things even though those fans are usually right and realistic. Basically, just looking to argue further with people that they don’t agree with even though they are honest and critical about the state of this sh*tshow.

 It’s a great thing that Mac was fired. It could have been done earlier and in a more ideal way but it’s still a great thing. That’s ultimatley all that matters.

All the media criticism is a joke since those same idiots praised Mac and Bowles. They don’t know sh*t. They are correct about our terrible owners and us Jet fans that actually ARE critical and demand more from this team, have shifted the focus to the root of our problems....ownership. It Always has and always will be the problem but make no mistake, this is a good thing. Mac is gone.

The concern about our stability and future is a legitimate concern and Gase has to prove himself before he gets any credit as a coach. He gets 100% credit for getting rid of Mac and I will forever be grateful for that. 

[Brady's a catcher]

2 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Don't listen to CTM. He knows very little. 

Jets fans like me have the thousand yard stare. A Jets fan gets it after he's been in the sh*t for too long. It's like you're really seeing beyond. I got it. All real Jets fans got it. And you'll have it, too.

Excellent use of FMJ!

[Warfish]

52 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I don't like the idea of letting revisionist history into the debates we're having in these threads.  Anyone can say, "I would have fired him months ago."

Revisionist my ass, you can look up the posts if you really feel the need.

52 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The real question I'm trying to get at is whether our fans are more upset with a good decision that's possibly made at the wrong time or seems a little messy because it makes the team look bad for a month?

The human mind can hold two separate, distinct, ideas in it at the same time. 

It's perfectly normal to A. be fine with firing Macc AND B. think the timing and method of how it was done was poor.

By putting the question the way you have, you're knowingly or otherwise attempting to create a "good fans" vs. "bad fans" argument.  

In your world, "good fans" only care about the firing, and only "bad fans" would dare question how pants-on-head stupid doing it now, as opposed to at seasons end, was.

52 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I just don't like the idea that people who were begging for some things (firing Bowles, firing Macc, hiring an offensive HC, getting Darnold weapons, etc.) have now gotten ALL of those things but are now digging deeper into their bag of ways to complain about things and pulling out, "Yeah, but I didn't want him fired in May," or "Yeah, but not THIS offensive-minded HC," or "Yeah, but Bell is too expensive."

So it sounds like you just hate people who don't agree with you and the team all down the line, because every one of those criticism is perfectly valid for fans to have.  The timing is questionable.  Hiring Gase is questionable.  Bell's contract is questionable (just ask Gase, lol!)

What do you want exactly, homer central like the Pats Fan site where the only acceptable post is "I agree 100% with whatever the team does, and I won't say anything bad (Please don't ban me, please!)"

52 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I recognize that this all may be aggravating me a little more than it should, but for a fanbase that has suffered as much as this one has it's difficult to understand how some people don't just want to get what they want.....they want it delivered to them perfectly.  Change is messy.

It's only difficult to understand if you don't want to understand tbqh.  If you can't see why folks may question the bad timing, the Gase hire, or the Bell deal, well.....you're just not trying very hard.  You don't have to agree, but to be unable to even understand, that's on you.  Not them.

52 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 This will be a better football team with Maccagnan gone and replaced by someone who can work better with this HC.

Facts not in evidence.  You're probably right (at least in my view), but that's an opinion, not a fact.

52 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I don't care if it looks ugly or that in the complete vacuum of NFL news in May we've now given the world a hot topic to crush the Jets for......I'm happy about any move that could make this team better.

If you're so happy, why do you care what other fans think anyway?

 

[Butterfield]

I couldn’t care less that they let Mac go, its just that this whole process confirms that this team has no short or long term plan.  Everything is done on a whim and it all starts from the top.  Just a terribly run organization from top to bottom.  It is hard to root for such losers.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Exactly. 

I'm happy Mac was removed.

I'm upset by the way it was handled, especially as more information is coming out about the situation and the dust hasnt even settled. 

 

I mean, there is a reason anyone with a brain isn’t unanimously happy and that’s because the owners who aren’t going anywhere and who have ultimate say are making it plain as day they barely know how to structure a business let alone a football team and don’t have a capacity or desire or awareness to learn from their mistakes. 

 

[JustInFudge]

29 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I mean, there is a reason anyone with a brain isn’t unanimously happy and that’s because the owners who aren’t going anywhere and who have ultimate say are making it plain as day they barely know how to structure a business let alone a football team and don’t have a capacity or desire or awareness to learn from their mistakes. 

 

Or the intelligence to just say screw it, let's outsource this train wreck to a guy who actually knows what the **** he is doing.  I get that dudes with this type of money have a hard time self-reflecting and finding flaw but you would think if CJ did this "deep dive analysis" of what has been going on under his tenure that he'd find out in the process, he's clueless.  Admit it, break out your checkbook and give someone that knows wtf they're doing control of the franchise.  What more proof do you need to finally realize that you're not good enough?

 

 

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Revisionist my ass, you can look up the posts if you really feel the need.

 

Hold on, before I comment on anything else you wrote,  I'm not saying that you engaged in revisionist history or are saying something now that you didn't say then.  I'm saying that certain people cannot look forward and regardless of what we all wanted a 5 months ago, a year ago or 2 years ago we're dealing with a decision that was made now, this week.  It's like those knuckleheads who can't sell a stock that's down 30% because they just have to wait until they come back to breakeven.  They're living in the past.  ANY question can be answered with a spin that, "well, I would have done X, Y or Z back in 2007," but I'm being critical of those who are so blinded by their need to complain that they can't discern that a correct decision was made. Sure, the timing wasn't perfect, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong call to make now.  It's like giving someone a Ferrari and his first reaction is, "Well, I really wanted it in black and not red."

Quote

So it sounds like you just hate people who don't agree with you and the team all down the line, because every one of those criticism is perfectly valid for fans to have.  The timing is questionable.  Hiring Gase is questionable.  Bell's contract is questionable (just ask Gase, lol!)

I love people who don't agree with me.  Ask my wife.  I have a problem with those who clamor and beg for things for months and then are given them and then they keep complaining.  Sure, we can all question those things...the timing, the $ for Bell, etc. but there are folks jumping off the deep end because Mike Maccagnan, the 30th ranked NFL GM was just fired....and they're mostly irate simply because the media is making fun of the Jets or their Giants fan friend is pointing at them.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

5 hours ago, peebag said:

c'mon, Mac and Bowles should have been fired right after the last game of 2018.

 

5 hours ago, peebag said:

c'mon, Mac and Bowles should have been fired right after the last game of 2016

    Fixed.

[BigRy56]

If Mac was going to be fired, it should've been with Bowles. Firing him and to give Gase all of this power is insane.

Obviously, all of these rumors can't be true, but if Gase is anywhere near as nuts as he's being painted out to be (like trading Bell) we're going to be begging to have Mac back.

[Warfish]

48 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Hold on, before I comment on anything else you wrote,  I'm not saying that you engaged in revisionist history or are saying something now that you didn't say then.

Ok, fair enough, apologies if I misread that as directed at me then.  

48 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 I'm saying that certain people cannot look forward and regardless of what we all wanted a 5 months ago, a year ago or 2 years ago we're dealing with a decision that was made now, this week.  It's like those knuckleheads who can't sell a stock that's down 30% because they just have to wait until they come back to breakeven.  They're living in the past.  ANY question can be answered with a spin that, "well, I would have done X, Y or Z back in 2007," but I'm being critical of those who are so blinded by their need to complain that they can't discern that a correct decision was made. Sure, the timing wasn't perfect, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong call to make now.  It's like giving someone a Ferrari and his first reaction is, "Well, I really wanted it in black and not red."

I can't speak for anyone else, but despite what some folks may think, I am not "blinded by a need to complain".  I post what I think of an objective analysis of what the organization does.  If it's good, I'll say so, if it's bad, I'll say so.  The Macc firing is both.  Macc was a poor GM, so his firing is good.  Firing your GM AFTER FA and the Draft is just stupid.  There is nothing overly emotional about either opinion, they're both pretty strait forward factual tbqh.

48 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I love people who don't agree with me.  Ask my wife.

Nice, LOL.

48 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 I have a problem with those who clamor and beg for things for months and then are given them and then they keep complaining.  Sure, we can all question those things...the timing, the $ for Bell, etc. but there are folks jumping off the deep end because Mike Maccagnan, the 30th ranked NFL GM was just fired....and they're mostly irate simply because the media is making fun of the Jets or their Giants fan friend is pointing at them.

I guess I'm not seeing it here the way you seem to.  I don't really see anyone jumping off any deep ends.  And I see almost no one who is actually against firing Macc.  But yes, it's perfectly legit to ponder wtf the organization was thinking doing it this way, and if (speculation) it's a bad sign going forward under Google-eyes.

To echo your analogy about the Ferrari, the Jets just gave us a sh*t sandwich firing Macc now instead of months ago. 

But hey, at least it wasn't diarrhea with corn in it, right?  So stop complaining, right, it's only sh*t after all. 

[jetstream23]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ok, fair enough, apologies if I misread that as directed at me then.  

I can't speak for anyone else, but despite what some folks may think, I am not "blinded by a need to complain".  I post what I think of an objective analysis of what the organization does.  If it's good, I'll say so, if it's bad, I'll say so.  The Macc firing is both.  Macc was a poor GM, so his firing is good.  Firing your GM AFTER FA and the Draft is just stupid.  There is nothing overly emotional about either opinion, they're both pretty strait forward factual tbqh.

Nice, LOL.

I guess I'm not seeing it here the way you seem to.  I don't really see anyone jumping off any deep ends.  And I see almost no one who is actually against firing Macc.  But yes, it's perfectly legit to ponder wtf the organization was thinking doing it this way, and if (speculation) it's a bad sign going forward under Google-eyes.

To echo your analogy about the Ferrari, the Jets just gave us a sh*t sandwich firing Macc now instead of months ago. 

But hey, at least it wasn't diarrhea with corn in it, right?  So stop complaining, right, it's only sh*t after all. 

I always find value in your opinions man, even if I disagree with them.  And, I agree with most of what you said above.  Of course firing Macc in January with Bowles would have been ideal IF they were going to get rid of him now.  The fact is that CJ didn't know he'd be getting rid of him now and didn't have a deep enough understanding of how the FO was operating under Macc until he saw it in action with a new HC.  That is on CJ.  He admitted there was some absentee ownership or a lack of in-depth understanding on his part of what was happening in the FO.  BUT I'm glad that once he had more information he was decisive and didn't wait until the time when the headlines would be friendlier to the Jets about the decision.  Keeping Macc was a bad decision post-January 2019, when they fired Bowles.  CJ could have made it worse by keeping Macc longer until the time when it would have been better for the Jets PR that they fire him and just let the news blend in with the other 5 to 7 GM firings that seem to happen every January.

In fact, it's telling that the reasons for Macc getting fired aren't his draft picks or FA signings.  I think they kept him and let him run this year's process because he finally had a tiny bit of wind at his back.  His 2017 1st Round pick had just gotten named to a Pro Bowl and his 2018 pick is looking like a potential franchise QB.  The storyline was that Bowles was inept and even if the roster wasn't great the Jets hadn't yet spent their $$$ to really jump start it.  I think that's what kept Macc around through the Bowles firing.  The reason he was fired this week is apparently due to how indecisive he was, how he communicated in the building (or didn't) and how he mismanaged the scouting group.  If that's the real reason they got rid of him now then it is 100% the right move.  Could you imagine Gase taking the Jets to an 11-5 record and the playoffs with Maccagnan's roster AND THEN firing Macc on Black Monday in January 2020, and telling the media it's because he's a doofus who doesn't along with the HC and can't manage a team internally?  That would have been even more asinine and Jetsy.  As for the sh!t sandwich....I'm just glad they flushed it now instead of waiting until Black Monday of January 2020.

[14 in Green]

 

3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I don't like the idea of letting revisionist history into the debates we're having in these threads.  Anyone can say, "I would have fired him months ago."  The real question I'm trying to get at is whether our fans are more upset with a good decision that's possibly made at the wrong time or seems a little messy because it makes the team look bad for a month?  Hindsight is 20/20.  I can ask a poll about whether the Jets should have drafted Darnold, Rosen or Allen and I'll get comments like, "They should have drafted Mahomes a couple years ago."   Sure...maybe they should have.  They also should have drafted Dan Marino in 1983 and Tom Brady in 2000.

I just don't like the idea that people who were begging for some things (firing Bowles, firing Macc, hiring an offensive HC, getting Darnold weapons, etc.) have now gotten ALL of those things but are now digging deeper into their bag of ways to complain about things and pulling out, "Yeah, but I didn't want him fired in May," or "Yeah, but not THIS offensive-minded HC," or "Yeah, but Bell is too expensive."

I recognize that this all may be aggravating me a little more than it should, but for a fanbase that has suffered as much as this one has it's difficult to understand how some people don't just want to get what they want.....they want it delivered to them perfectly.  Change is messy.  This will be a better football team with Maccagnan gone and replaced by someone who can work better with this HC.  I don't care if it looks ugly or that in the complete vacuum of NFL news in May we've now given the world a hot topic to crush the Jets for......I'm happy about any move that could make this team better.

A quote comes to mind when I hear the Macc haters now b!tching about how and when it was done....

 

I'm not upset about Macc being fired. I'm upset that Gase is now running this organization.

I've seen this team do a lot of dumb stuff in the last 50+ years I've been rooting for them. There have been plenty of times I've been angry or frustrated by moves the made or didn't make.

I can honestly tell you I can't ever remember being disgusted though. At least until this S**T all came down two days ago.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Let's end this and see where our fans stand.

I just want to be clear that I absolutely think uncritical kissasses like this are the ones who dictate the exceedingly low standard the organization is held to so whatever they'd like to say is fair comment. This is their team, after all. The only people dumber than dumb Jets fans are smart Jets fans.

[dbatesman]

5 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I don't like the idea of letting revisionist history into the debates we're having in these threads.  Anyone can say, "I would have fired him months ago."

Except that a lot of us actually did say “we should fire him” months ago, which isn’t revisionist history, it’s just history.

Incidentally, “people ignoring or retconning previous arguments to buttress a current position” is not at all what the term “revisionist history” means, but even if it were, the only example of that currently happening is your ongoing effort to pretend that a bunch of us didn’t figure all this out long before you did. 

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Except that a lot of us actually did say “we should fire him” months ago, which isn’t revisionist history, it’s just history.

Incidentally, “people ignoring or retconning previous arguments to buttress a current position” is not at all what the term “revisionist history” means, but even if it were, the only example of that currently happening is your ongoing effort to pretend that a bunch of us didn’t figure all this out long before you did. 

I appreciate the dbate, man, but I'm not claiming to have figured anything out.  I'm simply suggesting that many of the experts, such as yourself, who actually did say we should fire him months ago, now seem to be complaining about it once it's actually happened.  Not you per se, but many.

I've never claimed to be smarter than anyone here.  In fact, I'm just as dumb as all of us are for rooting for this team for 30 years.  But this week they made a good move.  Late? Probably.  Done incorrectly (such as elevating the brand new HC to interim GM)? Possibly.  But was it in the best interests of the New York Jets Football Club?  Absofvckinglutley.

[fullblast]

It all just kinda blends together.

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I just want to be clear that I absolutely think uncritical kissasses like this are the ones who dictate the exceedingly low standard the organization is held to so whatever they'd like to say is fair comment. This is their team, after all. The only people dumber than dumb Jets fans are smart Jets fans.

What?

[MykePM]

The media is constantly lying in wait for the Jets to do anything that they can paint as bumbling - because they know it's the narrative about the team that sells.  Other teams' fans love to laugh at us, and the sad part is that there are plenty of Jets fans who have a knee-jerk reaction to go to that place also.  I get it.  I've been a Jets fan for over 40 years, and have been through all of the soul-crushing bad times too.  It's only natural to want to lash out at anyone who causes you pain.

I don't really give a damn about "bad optics" though - especially when they're overblown to a ridiculous degree.  I care more about practical results.  I'm not sad that Maccagnan was let go, but the 4 months of borrowed time he was given didn't turn out too badly, in my opinion.  I think the Jets had a pretty good offseason.  Yes, there are still a couple of positions that are somewhat weak, but there were too many holes to be filled in one off-season, despite how much cap space we had.  

The final say in how good this move was or wasn't will be who is hired as the new GM - and their impact.  If they bring in someone competent and end up ascending into a playoff/championship team, the last week will be a footnote.  If they go the Tebow route of making a poor, headline-grabbing choice (like Peyton Manning?), or end up having to settle for a 2nd-class choice because they are turned down by the top candidates - and the team tanks, I'll grab a torch and pitchfork. Until then though, there are still too many things yet to be determined before I'm ready to burn down 1 Jets Drive.

[NYJ1]

The reaction by Jets fans is understandable. Upheaval represents uncertainty. Many are nervous about this including myself. The owner makes poor hiring choices and now he's making another one.

[Hael]

3 hours ago, MykePM said:

The media is constantly lying in wait for the Jets to do anything that they can paint as bumbling - because they know it's the narrative about the team that sells.  Other teams' fans love to laugh at us, and the sad part is that there are plenty of Jets fans who have a knee-jerk reaction to go to that place also.  I get it.  I've been a Jets fan for over 40 years, and have been through all of the soul-crushing bad times too.  It's only natural to want to lash out at anyone who causes you pain.

 

Honestly, i'm pretty depressed about now.  My hopes that Darnold will have a decent supporting cast has dwindled, and instead its looking more like an Andrew Luck situation for the first ~6 years.  I think there's a reason why there's a lot of grumbling about our off-season internally, and it doesn't bode well for our near term future.  We shall see in training camp.  My optimism is very low right now.

More saliently, when there is a rot in the organizational scheme, it will continue to be a cancer until its purged and frankly that's not going away until there are more sweeping changes.  It's all quite ridiculous.

[DMan77]

I feel like the minority but I'm okay with the timing...

Why fire Mac and others before the draft? You let the guys who have done the scouting and evaluating for a whole year go? You let guys that know your inner workings and plans out in the wild to be hired or at least talked to by anyone?

Even if Mac had a sense that he was toast, it would still behoove him to have a good draft for his own future. He still wants to be able to say "I drafted ____ in the ___ round and he became a star, someone hire me." 

I also feel like maybe the Jets DID consider firing him before the draft, but they took a look at possible GM fill-ins at that time and didn't like their chances or options... So they waited until they maybe got a hint that there would be a few people to talk too post-draft.

[dbatesman]

6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I appreciate the dbate, man, but I'm not claiming to have figured anything out.  I'm simply suggesting that many of the experts, such as yourself, who actually did say we should fire him months ago, now seem to be complaining about it once it's actually happened.  Not you per se, but many.

I've never claimed to be smarter than anyone here.  In fact, I'm just as dumb as all of us are for rooting for this team for 30 years.  But this week they made a good move.  Late? Probably.  Done incorrectly (such as elevating the brand new HC to interim GM)? Possibly.  But was it in the best interests of the New York Jets Football Club?  Absofvckinglutley.

Yes me per se. I’ve wanted Maccagnan gone since he got here, but I wanted him gone because Fredo had a considered plan to restructure and improve the team, not because of a draft weekend power struggle that ends with him handing the keys to Adam ******* Gase. If you still think that’s hypocritical or revisionist history or whatever, go read “The Monkey’s Paw” or something.

[BroadwayJoe12]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Yes me per se. I’ve wanted Maccagnan gone since he got here, but I wanted him gone because Fredo had a considered plan to restructure and improve the team, not because of a draft weekend power struggle that ends with him handing the keys to Adam ******* Gase. If you still think that’s hypocritical or revisionist history or whatever, go read “The Monkey’s Paw” or something.

It ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

The media reactions are much more disappointing - CJ gave Mac a chance, and he did ok in FA but completely failed the draft, nightmare - glad he was fired