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gain control via ..............obliviousness..

 

the sh*t that passes for writing these days... 

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1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

mccagnan views the draft independently from how the coach will use the player.  he drafts based on value, not need.  that's how a scout works.

True, but a scout doesn't make the decision or order the board.  He evaluates, documents the strengths and weaknesses, performs objective assessments.  He doesn't make the determination that Player A should be the selection over Player B.  A GM needs to know how the HC will use the player.  It's a must.  I can buy the nicest filet mignon anyone has ever seen and hand it to the Chef and then watch him stare at me and say, "You know I'm cooking dinner for four vegetarians, right?"

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47 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

sounds like mccags had zero clue mccags would be fired too...

They always know. There has never been a person that I fired  where the person was totally shocked. They always know.

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1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Couldn't that be the GM itself?  I'm thinking higher level....someone that could sit next to Christopher Johnson and tell him things like, "This is a short-term trend, don't follow all the knuckleheads hiring first year college head coaches who all want to rely on 5-WR sets.  It will pass in 2-3 years."

I think this only works if the owner has exceptional football smarts or is willing to be hands off.  If he says "I'd really like us to sign Bell because we can sell more merchandise" a GM might have a problem telling his boss to GFY...

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22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So hard rn

Manish scoffed at the war room stuff a month ago. Article sounds fairly accurate but he’s something else.

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Just now, jetstream23 said:

True, but a scout doesn't make the decision or order the board.  He evaluates, documents the strengths and weaknesses, performs objective assessments.  He doesn't make the determination that Player A should be the selection over Player B.  A GM needs to know how the HC will use the player.  It's a must.  I can buy the nicest filet mignon anyone has ever seen and hand it to the Chef and then watch him stare at me and say, "You know I'm cooking dinner for four vegetarians, right?"

i agree but that's not how mccagnan has picked players.  

tony pauline said in a podcast that is in another thread that the two biggest problems that the nfl sees with mccagnan are 1) he's indecisive and 2) too old school in terms of his positional value.  he said that's why he didn't spend for paradis or fells in FA, two players gase wanted for his offense.  it's easy to see how mccagnan views the draft independent of team needs, taking leo and maye when those clearly were not needs and overall ignoring the OL.  

i think gase convinced cj that mccagnan's thinking will not elevate the team, particularly the offense.

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3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

NO!!!!!!

The GM is the execution arm of the Senior level position. The Senior Level position creates the culture and blueprint for the GM. The GM then has to hit the trenches with his team to execute to that blueprint.

What I'm saying is we need someone like that for CJ if he's incapable of forming that blueprint himself and articulating what his vision is for the organization and team.  How does CJ hire a new GM without the guy I'm describing?  Doesn't he need an "old sage" to help him do that?

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maybe this is all true, but he's also the guy that said everything was peachy keen...

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20 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

What type of person....or what person specifically, would you bring in if you're CJ to be your advisor and sit between you and the GM?  Would this be a new President, a "Chief of Football Operations," etc.?

Does a respected guy who comes from football fit the bill?  Someone like a Parcells or Holmgren?  I think that might just make things worse, at least initially given Gase's personality.

Scott Pioli

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1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

What I'm saying is we need someone like that for CJ if he's incapable of forming that blueprint himself and articulating what his vision is for the organization and team.  How does CJ hire a new GM without the guy I'm describing?  Doesn't he need an "old sage" to help him do that?

YES!!!!

And that is the point to this position. 

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4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

What I'm saying is we need someone like that for CJ if he's incapable of forming that blueprint himself and articulating what his vision is for the organization and team.  How does CJ hire a new GM without the guy I'm describing?  Doesn't he need an "old sage" to help him do that?

Someone who isnt Charley Casserly.

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40 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Fascinating article.   It actually seems to fit the narrative floating around that Macc's system of building barriers between his scouts and the coaching staff was a key point of friction.  It also seems to support the notion that CJ is in over his head and was slow to realize that Macc's way of doing things was going to cause problems with a hands-on alpha like Gase.  Other interesting tidbit (if true):  CJ held on to Macc in January because he wasn't confident he could lead a search to replace both a GM and a HC effectively...

_____________________________________________________________________

Behind the scenes of the final straw in the Jets rift between Adam Gase and Mike Maccagnan

By Manish Mehta

| New York Daily News |

May 17, 2019 | 12:55 PM

Where’s the camera?

Adam Gase’s frustration was palpable.

He had spent months grumbling about decisions, non-decisions and just about everything else on One Jets Drive. People around him brushed it off as “Adam being Adam,” but there was an underlying uneasiness that wasn’t going to disappear until one massive change was made.

The draft was the final straw for CEO Christopher Johnson, who had reservations about retaining Mike Maccagnan after the season before he finally fired the general manager and lieutenant Brian Heimerdinger this week.

Along the way, Gase seized an opportunity to gain control with a savvy play in the strangest sort of passive-aggressive power struggle that included petulance, back-door bad-mouthing and obliviousness.

Johnson took the heat in the wake of the firings, looking like a lost, indecisive soul.

“He sees the good in everybody,” a current Jets employee said of Johnson in the wake of the acting owner’s unorthodox moves. “He just doesn’t know what he’s doing.”

The signs were all there in the run-up to – and during – the draft. Gase was understandably angry at the whole damn process. (More on that later.)

So Gase strategically distanced himself by first locating the war room camera. He had a seat next to Johnson that would have been in the view of the camera.

“He literally took his seat and moved it (out of camera view),” said a current team employee that was in the war room. “That was extreme.”

Gase wanted to wash his hands of the draft before it even began, according to sources. Eyewitnesses told the Daily News that he was oddly detached for all three days. This was a Maccagnan Production through and through. Gase stayed out of the way, rarely giving input on trade possibilities or prospects when the Jets were on the clock. There was no point that Gase ever fought for or objected to any of Maccagnan’s picks.

The sentiment among people in the room: This was awkward.

Johnson, meanwhile, had viewed his two years in charge through an idyllic prism. He had good intentions and a glass-half-full mindset. Truth be told, he wanted Maccagnan to succeed even if he had serious concerns about his general manager’s communication deficiencies at the end of the season.

Some of the brain trust, including owner Woody Johnson, would have signed off on firing Maccagnan in January if that’s what Christopher wanted.

But Christopher Johnson was concerned about his ability to lead both a general manager and coaching search alone. The support staff in the building, frankly, wasn’t qualified. Johnson liked Maccagnan on a personal level and felt comfortable that the GM and his top lieutenant would be the best people in-house to lead a coaching search.

Johnson kept Maccagnan and Heimerdinger, and kept his fingers crossed that it would all work in the end with a new head coach.

People in the organization truly believe that Johnson wants the Jets to succeed, but there’s a strong sentiment among those that I’ve spoken to in the past 48 hours that he simply doesn’t have the experience, football savvy and support structure right now to make sound choices.

Sources agree with moving on from Maccagnan, but some vehemently objected with the timing of the decision.

“It didn’t make sense,” one team source said.

People on One Jets Drive believe that Johnson means well, but they have little confidence that they can actually trust his decision-making to reverse the perception of the Jets as a laughingstock.

Jets employees aren’t alone. Seventy-two percent of the more than 10,000 people who participated in an online Daily News Poll this week do not trust that Johnson knows what he’s doing.

The run-up to the draft should have been an eye opener for him. Gase’s frustration was understandable.

The dynamic between Maccagnan and Gase during the team’s pre-draft meetings was odd. Gase badly wanted to share his opinions on what types of players he was looking for in his system during these organizational discussions, but remained quiet, according to sources. Maccagnan didn’t ask the coach to share his evaluations during those sessions.

The reason? The general manager didn’t want Gase to adversely influence his scouts’ evaluations, according to sources.

It was a curious approach that understandably angered Gase, who simply wanted to provide more information and depth on player prototypes that made sense for his schemes so that he would be on the same page with the guys who had spent the past year or so studying college players.

“It pissed Adam off,” a team source said. “Mike didn’t want him to speak up too much. It’s a weird philosophy.”

Gase shared his thoughts on players to Maccagnan in smaller meetings, but the notion that scouts, by and large, were kept in the dark about how the head coach felt about draft prospects should have ticked him off.

Maccagnan, who had the same philosophy with Todd Bowles, was bent on not having the scouts swayed by the head coach. It was a counterproductive approach that only served to alienate Gase, who expressed his frustrations in myriad ways to many people in league circles.

Gase, already unhappy with some of Maccagnan and Johnson’s decisions in free agency (the Le’Veon Bell acquisition was driven by ownership), had strategically detached himself from the draft by the time the Jets were on the clock with the third pick.

Johnson was witness to the odd draft proceedings, but tried to keep an optimistic outlook on this arrangement. In fact, he privately told people on One Jets Drive that rumors of Maccagnan’s impending ouster were simply untrue. The GM was oblivious to his firing… until he was fired.

Gase had a small window to seize control. If the Jets were in the playoff conversation in 2019, he’d be tied to a general manager that he quickly learned was not a good fit for him. If the Jets stunk up the joint this season, he’d lose the juice that he has with the owner right now.

Gase’s annoyance and irritation over certain issues were warranted. He felt his voice carried little weight on certain important matters. So, he did what he felt he had to do.

He strategically ingratiated himself with Johnson, who was looking for a strong communicator on the football side of the organization.

Was it right? Does it matter if it wasn’t?

The bottom-line reality: Gase won the offseason.

He will effectively hand pick the next general manager (with Johnson’s approval). How will this impact the rest of the football operations on One Jets Drive? Will there be much more upheaval?

“I don’t think he wants to screw a lot of people over,” one Jets employee said of Gase. “Because he feels like he already kind of did that.”

 

 

lol...Dave Gettleman must be so thankful right now. 

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So now the inmates are controlling the asylum? CJ is going to entrust Gase with bringing in the GM?  Doesn't this sound familiar?

If the past is forgotten, the is future doomed to be repeated.....

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3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

lol...Dave Gettleman must be so thankful right now. 

All the Giant fans I know and it's lot, don't care about the Jets. I live in Giant country, they don't like DG. With Jets facility in back yard.

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48 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Manish is in over his head

He comes off as a bullsh*t artist who doesn't really have any significant insights

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1 minute ago, Ohhthepain said:

SmartSelect_20190515-143203_Chrome.jpg

I love that he’s eating crow but Chris Johnson is a huge liar. No one trusts him now. 

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12 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

All the Giant fans I know and it's lot, don't care about the Jets. I live in Giant country, they don't like DG. With Jets facility in back yard.

My point was that Dave Gettleman is no longer on the back pages or spoken of in the media. 

Nothing to do with Giants fans. 

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3 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I love that he’s eating crow but Chris Johnson is a huge liar. No one trusts him now. 

Yup. 

This was handled poorly to the point where lies were even exposed. The first thing that came to my mind when Macc was fired on Tuesday was how Gase that prior Friday was so "pissed off by the media" for even thinking that something could be wrong between him and Macc. 

 

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I obviously don't trust Manish in the slightest, but if it is indeed true that Macc kept the coach from communicating with scouts, that puts a big dent in the old, tired "Bowles made the draft picks" argument when people tried to defend Mike Maccagnan. 

Since Manish was a Macc fanboy, we can probably trust that that particular point was true, since that does Macc no favors in hindsight.

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4 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I love that he’s eating crow but Chris Johnson is a huge liar. No one trusts him now. 

Do you think he purposely lied or just f--ked up a personnel decision due to incompetence?  Seems to me when he said Macc was safe he really had no intention of firing him.  Once FA ended and the draft took place he realized he messed up...

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2 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Do you think he purposely lied or just f--ked up a personnel decision due to incompetence?  Seems to me when he said Macc was safe he really had no intention of firing him.  Once FA ended and the draft took place he realized he messed up...

Not sure. I do know that Manish having true inside sources and being close to the Jets, completely blew up in his stupid face so I’m happy. 

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9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

My point was that Dave Gettleman is no longer on the back pages or spoken of in the media. 

Nothing to do with Giants fans. 

Whether Gettleman is on the back page or front page, doesn't change what certain Giant fans think. And I don't think Gettleman  cares either.

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58 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

But Christopher Johnson was concerned about his ability to lead both a general manager and coaching search alone. The support staff in the building, frankly, wasn’t qualified. Johnson liked Maccagnan on a personal level and felt comfortable that the GM and his top lieutenant would be the best people in-house to lead a coaching search.

100% believe this, despite the source. I posted the same sentiment earlier today. CJ is in no way, shape, or form a football guy. It would've been Casserly-Ferry calling the shots all over again. It was a weak move, but I honestly have no idea where the team would be right now if CJ made the bolder move and cleaned house.

Much of the rest of the article feels like an Adam Gase hit piece from a so-called beat reporter who found himself completely blind-sided. Seems pretty clear Maccagnan was his primary source (and was again for this article), and he's flailing after losing all access. 

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Just now, Apache 51 said:

Whether Gettleman is on the back page or front page, doesn't change what certain Giant fans think. And don't think Gettleman gives cares either.

It also doesnt matter what certain Giants fans think when it came to my original post, given that it had nothing to do with what Giants fans thought. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

Other interesting tidbit (if true):  CJ held on to Macc in January because he wasn't confident he could lead a search to replace both a GM and a HC effectively...

Assumimg this is true, if CJ couldn’t handle repacking both the GM and HC, how about using that as a sign that he shouldn’t be doing so much?!  How about fire them both and just hire a GM (who then hires the HC he wants)?   Pretty straight-forward.

 

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Well there are two truths in this article.

1)  The owner/CEO is totaly out of his league and has no clue what he is doing.

2) A good point in macs favor, he wants the GM and scouts calling the shots re player procurement and wants the coaching staff to stay the hell out of it.

Teams invest a considerable amount in scouts and gms and such and then some coach come sin a week before the draft and because of some shot highlight tape wants or does not want a player.

The coaches should communicate the type of system or player they desire or think the team nerds and then they should step out of the way.

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1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Manish looked like a complete idiot saying the reports Mac is on the way out is 200% wrong, but someone on the inside gave him a lot of insight. Someone in the draft room about moving out of camera view answers a lot of questions. Many of us believed he wasn’t there. Well he ironically he really wasn’t there, in the sense Mac blocked him from communicating with scouts even type of players he sought for his scheme.. What the hell did Mac ever do to deserve that power? Sounds like bowles also was kept in the dark, but he was not about to complain as mac loves D. You gotta love D if you 100% bpa guy.. 

 this article was by far best one yet. If woody was here mac is fired in Jan. But little Johnson was scared to search for a new gm and HC in his first months of controller. That is understandable.. 

 

Now I give credit for pushing Mac in the dumpster.. We all should agree this should have happened In Jan, but better late then never. We will go into this season with a better HC, OC, DC, and gm. Not that the bar was set high

sounds like the jets not only launched their gm but maybe also launched maneesh's inside source.  in any case i'm not cryin for mac or maneesh.

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

100% believe this, despite the source. I posted the same sentiment earlier today. CJ is in no way, shape, or form a football guy. It would've been Casserly-Ferry calling the shots all over again. It was a weak move, but I honestly have no idea where the team would be right now if CJ made the bolder move and cleaned house.

Much of the rest of the article feels like an Adam Gase hit piece from a so-called beat reporter who found himself completely blind-sided. Seems pretty clear Maccagnan was his primary source (and was again for this article), and he's flailing after losing all access. 

yep.  let's hope johnson does the smart thing by bringing in a decent gm and letting gase or the gm have the final say on matters instead of having them on an equal footing.

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7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

It also doesnt matter what certain Giants fans think when it came to my original post, given that it had nothing to do with what Giants fans thought. 

 

 

Oh I thought you meant the Jets are a distraction, my bad, my mistake.

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8 minutes ago, rangerous said:

yep.  let's hope johnson does the smart thing by bringing in a decent gm and letting gase or the gm have the final say on matters instead of having them on an equal footing.

It's dodgy, because in order to grab a top personnel guy without permission, you have to give him full control of the 53-man roster, which is something that every head coach wants to have. They're not gonna land a guy like Douglas without that, and I doubt they're gonna have Gase hire his own boss. We're gonna be stuck with the structure none of us seem to like, that keeps the owner way too involved in day to day operations. 

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1 hour ago, KRL said:

This is cute BUT he never had the initial story to begin with.  In fact he said

it was 200% false so why should I believe this now?  Hopefully we get Douglas

as GM and all this is never remembered

Manish is upset he was made to look like a fool so he's lashing out. 

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4 minutes ago, slats said:

It's dodgy, because in order to grab a top personnel guy without permission, you have to give him full control of the 53-man roster, which is something that every head coach wants to have. They're not gonna land a guy like Douglas without that, and I doubt they're gonna have Gase hire his own boss. We're gonna be stuck with the structure none of us seem to like, that keeps the owner way too involved in day to day operations. 

What would be ballsy here is for CJ to mea culpa and hire a true football guy to run everything and then let HIM hire the GM...

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