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Villain The Foe

MUST LISTEN: TOJ's Joe Caporoso speaks with Tony Pauline

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Pauline, whom you said was a lying psychopath last week but whom was 100% correct, in this interview says that Gase didn’t want the Jets job, wanted the Browns job, and it ended up being a marriage of mutual desperation. 

OMG, we may have been his second choice after the Browns, with a better roster and GM?  Maybe.  No one knows for sure.  

Really, second choices are desperation?  The league is full of desperatation then  

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Good answer.

Avoided the question totally.  

 

Remember when Matt Rhule turned down the job because Baby Huey wanted to hire his coordinators for him

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12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

OMG, we may have been his second choice after the Browns, with a better roster and GM?  

Really, second choices are desperation?  The league is full of desperatation then  

Third choice. It was Rhule, McCarthy, then Gase. 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Meh. That’s mostly Pauline doing a victory lap without adding much new than what’s already out there. The one thing I found amusing was Pauline saying that Maccagnan is too “old school” and doesn’t want to pay big money for tight ends and centers...but he’ll drop high picks on safeties and ILBs? Bottom line with everything flying around right now is that Maccagnan was in way over his head and needed to go. Regardless of how anyone feels about Gase, there’s nooooobody out there making the positive case for retaining Maccagnan.

This was the main takeaway from the whole thing.  That he’s indecisive and too old school. This explains why he does not make the trades he’s rumored to have available to him and why we took not 1 but 2 safeties with our first 2 picks in the 2017 nfl draft.

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Just now, dbatesman said:

Remember when Matt Rhule turned down the job because Baby Huey wanted to hire his coordinators for him

Exactly.  

And if the jets really were desperate they would have hired him and had his OC without a day of NFL coaching experience mentor and call plays for Darnold.  

Thanks for making my point.  

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Third choice. It was Rhule, McCarthy, then Gase. 

Lol, ok, sure it was

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Joe Caporoso - another guy who is supposed to be a Jets fan but makes his living doing everything and anything he can to trash them.  If he wrote for the daily news instead of his blog, his name would be Mehta.

I'll pass.  I get my fill of Jets fans trashing the Jets at every turn on this website.

 

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19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Pauline, whom you said was a lying psychopath last week but whom was 100% correct, in this interview says that Gase didn’t want the Jets job, wanted the Browns job, and it ended up being a marriage of mutual desperation when the Browns hired Kitchens

Browns had more talent even before obj and are not in the afc east.

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4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

This was the main takeaway from the whole thing.  That he’s indecisive and too old school. This explains why he does not make the trades he’s rumored to have available to him and why we took not 1 but 2 safeties with our first 2 picks in the 2017 nfl draft.

This all feels like a prelude to finding out the Redskins offered their 2019 and 2020 firsts for the #3 and Maccagnan balked.

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Just now, T0mShane said:

This all feels like a prelude to finding out the Redskins offered their 2019 and 2020 firsts for the #3 and Maccagnan balked.

I would wager we will hear about trade offers that mccagnan did not pounce on that led to gase taking his chair and moving it so the cameras couldn’t find him while he sat pouting next to cj while he whispered in his ear how good the eagles picks were compared to theirs.

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10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Exactly.  

And if the jets really were desperate they would have hired him and had his OC without a day of NFL coaching experience mentor and call plays for Darnold.  

Thanks for making my point.  

oh sh*t

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38 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Well let's see.  Gase wanted and took the job.  McCarthy said it was the only job he would take.  They clearly could have had Ruhle if they wanted him.  KK too.

Reeks of desperation, right? 😛👍

Gase wanted the job because he was still on the unemployment line. Gase was the 2nd to last of the 8 new head coaching hires that was hired...the last being the Bengals Zac Taylor. Gase may have wanted the job, but it was clear that the other teams...including the Jets didnt have him high on their list. Gase wasnt the top or even 2nd choice for the Jets. Gase was hired right when that Ruhle agreement fell through. 

McCarthy said it was the only job he would take, probably because he didnt have any other serious offers surrounding him other than the Jets. Teams like the Browns made public statements that McCarthy would not even be interviewed.

They could have had Ruhle if they allowed Ruhle to do what head coaches do...which is pick the coaching staff. So sure, Ruhle really did consider the job, but he didnt want the job enough to sacrifice his own staff...even if that meant declining the job with Sam Darnold as the QB. 

 

The Gase hire was literally desperation. Lets see how desperate this GM hire ends up 

 

 

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

oh sh*t

I think you’re legally bound to delete your account now. Jet Nut just owned you so hard

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think you’re legally bound to delete your account now. Jet Nut just owned you so hard

you know what would prove the Jets were desperate? Hiring their first choice for HC. but he turned them down so boom not desperate. lol the SOJFs are begging for mercy now

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8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

you know what would prove the Jets were desperate? Hiring their first choice for HC. but he turned them down so boom not desperate. lol the SOJFs are begging for mercy now

I admire your courage in continuing to post, knowing that Jet Nut is patrolling these internet waters like a giant logic megalodon ready to strike at any moment 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t know. I don’t think coaches should be GMs, but at the same time I don’t mind having *one guy* be the shot caller. I think Gase is tough enough to assume control and smart enough to be trusted with at least a chance to build his roster. Especially considering he’s building it from a QB-centric view, which is really how it needs to be done these days. We just had ten years of defensive coaches pushing around wimpy GMs and spending billions on DLs and DBs, so I’m cool if Gase reverses the trend and we’re overcompensating OLs and WRs for once.

Yep, I can see the logic there but we can’t just flip flop to the polar opposite and every thing is hunky-dory, there needs to be a balance. We did that going from Herm to Mangini to Rex, and to an extent to Bowles...my worry is we are swinging too far back the other way but I think you could be right, this is not the end of the world and if Gase gets ‘his’ guy at GM then he has no hiding place and the buck all stops with him. Some of the reports around his attitude during FA and the draft have got to be troubling, I mean it took all of a couple of weeks for him to start sulking and throwing his toys out of the pram , .that’s not great. But like you said, let’s see how we go from here

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39 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Third choice. It was Rhule, McCarthy, then Gase. 

Wrong again.  

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Wrong again.  

Is it

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Meh. That’s mostly Pauline doing a victory lap without adding much new than what’s already out there. The one thing I found amusing was Pauline saying that Maccagnan is too “old school” and doesn’t want to pay big money for tight ends and centers...but he’ll drop high picks on safeties and ILBs? Bottom line with everything flying around right now is that Maccagnan was in way over his head and needed to go. Regardless of how anyone feels about Gase, there’s nooooobody out there making the positive case for retaining Maccagnan.

A dozen people on this forum have been calling for mac to be fired for two years minimum while all the talking heads had their heads in the sand.  We should be doing a victory marathon.

I've said it before, fan bases in fact usually have the pulse of their team figured out more than any national media talking heads (who know nothing about teams in detail) or local media (who always have an agenda career wise.)

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28 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Gase wanted the job because he was still on the unemployment line. Gase was the 2nd to last of the 8 new head coaching hires that was hired...the last being the Bengals Zac Taylor. Gase may have wanted the job, but it was clear that the other teams...including the Jets didnt have him high on their list. Gase wasnt the top or even 2nd choice for the Jets. Gase was hired right when that Ruhle agreement fell through. 

McCarthy said it was the only job he would take, probably because he didnt have any other serious offers surrounding him other than the Jets. Teams like the Browns made public statements that McCarthy would not even be interviewed.

They could have had Ruhle if they allowed Ruhle to do what head coaches do...which is pick the coaching staff. So sure, Ruhle really did consider the job, but he didnt want the job enough to sacrifice his own staff...even if that meant declining the job with Sam Darnold as the QB. 

 

The Gase hire was literally desperation. Lets see how desperate this GM hire ends up 

 

 

Gase wasn't which choice?  You know this how exactly?  

McCarthy wanted the job so we're going to make up BS reasons why he did.  Because you absolutely know he was bsing, didn't want it.  

They could have had Ruhle.  If they wanted him enough.  Or if they would have, one more time, allowed him to bring in an OC to develop Darnold who has never coached in the NFL.  Because that's what the Jets should have done.  Got it. 

So they could have had McCarthy.  Could have had Ruhle.  Probably could have had KK.  

They wanted someone, like everyone here did, with NFL experience.  Also like everyone here, someone from the O side of the ball.  So hiring Gase was desperation.

Makes sense.

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Meh. That’s mostly Pauline doing a victory lap without adding much new than what’s already out there. The one thing I found amusing was Pauline saying that Maccagnan is too “old school” and doesn’t want to pay big money for tight ends and centers...but he’ll drop high picks on safeties and ILBs? Bottom line with everything flying around right now is that Maccagnan was in way over his head and needed to go. Regardless of how anyone feels about Gase, there’s nooooobody out there making the positive case for retaining Maccagnan.

Probably Charley Casserly.  

Of all the stories out there, that's the one that really bothers me the most.  Macc was going to get fired in Houston but he was Casserly's buddy so that was the recommendation.  The Johnsons hire the guy for his help and he pulls that crap?!  I'm probably more upset at Casserly than I am at Macc/Bowles/Johnson bros.  

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Gase wasn't which choice?  You know this how exactly?  

McCarthy wanted the job so we're going to make up BS reasons why he did.  Because you absolutely know he was bsing, didn't want it.  

They could have had Ruhle.  If they wanted him enough.  Or if they would have, one more time, allowed him to bring in an OC to develop Darnold who has never coached in the NFL.  Because that's what the Jets should have done.  Got it. 

So they could have had McCarthy.  Could have had Ruhle.  Probably could have had KK.  

They wanted someone, like everyone here did, with NFL experience.  Also like everyone here, someone from the O side of the ball.  So hiring Gase was desperation.

Makes sense.

I didn't want any part of any of these coaches (McCarthy, Ruhle, KK).  I don't know about Gase  (there are seemingly some positives but he seems mentally unstable) though I wasn't thrilled with the hire.  I badly wanted the Jets to get John Harbaugh but he didn't shake free and I wouldn't haved trade our #1 for him. 

So, in short, I don't know that I even had a preferred candidate of what was out there.  I did want an offensive HC for once and Gase was at least that.  And he was supposedly a highly regarded OC before he went to Miami.  I remember people around here talking him up early on in his Miami tenure too.  I just fear he's the type of guy who is too combustible to last long-term anywhere.  And I feel like Jet ownership is now bending over backward to find a GM who can work with him.  Maybe they're going to have to name Gase both the HC and GM.  This way, if it fails, they can start from scratch and just hire a GM and let the GM decide the rest (as it should be!)

 

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2 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

All things that fans with half a brain KNEW and discussed here constantly. We didn’t need someone to tell us what to think or how to feel about Mac like the lemmings that blew him. Hypocrites and smooth brains.(I love that term haha)

I'll admit , I was one of the few here who didn't hate Mac - am I glad he's gone -certainly . My point all along was it was awful hard to fully judge him when they had an incompetent boob trying to develop the players he picked. 

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2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I didn't want any part of any of these coaches (McCarthy, Ruhle, KK).  I don't know about Gase  (there are seemingly some positives but he seems mentally unstable) though I wasn't thrilled with the hire.  I badly wanted the Jets to get John Harbaugh but he didn't shake free and I wouldn't have trade our #1 for him. 

So, in short, I don't know that I even had a preferred candidate of what was out there.  I did want an offensive HC for once and Gase was at least that.  And he was supposedly a highly regarded OC before he went to Miami.  I remember people around here talking him up early on in his Miami tenure too.  I just fear he's the type of guy who is too combustible to last long-term anywhere.  And I feel like Jet ownership is now bending over backward to find a GM who can work with him.  Maybe they're going to have to name Gase both the HC and GM.  This way, if it fails, they can start from scratch and just hire a GM and let the GM decide the rest (as it should be!)

 

Agree.

i think given how strong his convictions are on how to build a team if your going to commit to a strong personality you need a GM who is equally strong in his convictions.  Can't be washy, washy and slow moving like Macc was.  Became apparent to people in the building that it wouldn't work.  So while they should have fired Macc with Bowles it must have seemed like a better match than it actually was

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4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I'll admit , I was one of the few here who didn't hate Mac - am I glad he's gone -certainly . My point all along was it was awful hard to fully judge him when they had an incompetent boob trying to develop the players he picked. 

I'm not saying Bowles didn't deserve to be fired too but Macc didn't give him very much to work with.  Look at our QB situation for example.  Hack was a huge swing and miss.  Of course that stuff happens (e.g. the Broncos and Pax Lynch).  But you can't really win in today's NFL without a good QB.  And Macc's non-high-1st-round picks were mostly forgettable (Devin Smith, Chad Hansen, Ardarius Stewart, Lorenzo Mauldin, etc).  For a guy with a scouting background, that was inexcusable.  Let's hope he hits on a few in this past draft but I'm not holding my breath.  I'm confident Quinnen will be good but we'll see if he hits on any others.

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Agree.

i think given how strong his convictions are on how to build a team if your going to commit to a strong personality you need a GM who is equally strong in his convictions.  Can't be washy, washy and slow moving like Macc was.  Became apparent to people in the building that it wouldn't work.  So while they should have fired Macc with Bowles it must have seemed like a better match than it actually was

I still blame the Johnson family for this though because they paired these 2 together while having each report to them.  I still don't get why a franchise would do that (and I know the Jets aren't the only ones doing this btw).  I think you hire "the guy" and let him make the decisions.

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

It's like we gave the media something to talk about for a few weeks until camp opens. They must think The Jets and CJ are the gift that keeps giving 

I think its time Jet fans start treating the media like they have other Jet fans and the team for the past decade. Jets fans are ready at the drop of a dime to blast each other and the ownership based on click bait trolling from the "pundits" . Its time to tell these ass-hats its just not going to fly anymore - ignore the trolling . 

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9 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm not saying Bowles didn't deserve to be fired too but Macc didn't give him very much to work with.  Look at our QB situation for example.  Hack was a huge swing and miss.  Of course that stuff happens (e.g. the Broncos and Pax Lynch).  But you can't really win in today's NFL without a good QB.  And Macc's non-high-1st-round picks were mostly forgettable (Devin Smith, Chad Hansen, Ardarius Stewart, Lorenzo Mauldin, etc).  For a guy with a scouting background, that was inexcusable.  Let's hope he hits on a few in this past draft but I'm not holding my breath.  I'm confident Quinnen will be good but we'll see if he hits on any others.

But with young players that first TC and year is so important to their development . Jumping from college to the pros is so different in most cases and if these kids aren't handled properly at the outset it will seriously derail their careers. That's why I always cringe when I read the retorts but if the players are so good why are they out of the NFL.  Who knows if any of these Mac picks could have flourished under better development , one thing I know for certain is that other then being a friend and father figure Bowles and staff did these kids no favors. 

No GM hits on the majority of their picks but having no support from the CS puts them at a big disadvantage. 

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there's no salary cap on coaches 

yet somehow it's easier to be an adam gase and bottom feed 

the good coaches and GMs alot of these teams don't want to pay money for

cause really, what's the financial difference between winning and losing?

the pie gets cut equally either way 

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2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Exactly.  Gase is doing exactly what Mangini did only everyone here celebrates Mangini even now but somehow Gase is worse than Kotite

Mangini is a failure. Comparing Gase to him doesnt make me feel good.

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If all of this is to be believed, this is a disgrace.

Gase being the third choice with Matt Rhule as your #1 - who then came out publicly about not being in an arranged marriage.

No one in their right mind would hire Gase so quickly with his terrible resume and ownership struggles. Browns selected Kitchens over Gase!

Gase also being the provocateur and complaining to people on the outside about player moves yet all of this crap goes down throughout all of free agency and the draft while Johnson naively watches.

Joe Douglas is now not a shoe-in. I agree with the Eagles - what a sh*tshow.

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2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Exactly.  Gase is doing exactly what Mangini did only everyone here celebrates Mangini even now but somehow Gase is worse than Kotite

Mangini was a sane human being at least.  I think if given more time, he would've built a winner.  But that's just my opinion.

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39 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I'll admit , I was one of the few here who didn't hate Mac - am I glad he's gone -certainly . My point all along was it was awful hard to fully judge him when they had an incompetent boob trying to develop the players he picked. 

I agree that there are variables like player development. There were too many issues from different areas and some were squarely on him regardless of Bowles. He was complete trash.

I expect a GM to make plenty of mistakes. 60-40 is all that I’m looking for in a GM. That and having a modern NFL roster building philosophy based on what types of players are ACTUALLY available in FA and prioritizing positional value and premium positions with 1st round picks and still keep that front of mind with all top 100 picks. It’s a simple, sound plan and why so many of us were pulling our collective hair out. 

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38 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I still blame the Johnson family for this though because they paired these 2 together while having each report to them.  I still don't get why a franchise would do that (and I know the Jets aren't the only ones doing this btw).  I think you hire "the guy" and let him make the decisions.

I dont see how both men reporting to CJ would changes anything here.

Its been reported that they were talking with each other so why would their relationship be any different.

And it was reported that the Jets have scrapped that system and gone to a traditional org system months ago.  Wasnt a big deal because it really shouldnt be a big deal.  

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I dont see how both men reporting to CJ would changes anything here.

Its been reported that they were talking with each other so why would their relationship be any different.

And it was reported that the Jets have scrapped that system and gone to a traditional org system months ago.  Wasnt a big deal because it really shouldnt be a big deal.  

Are you referring to Macc and Gase?

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-sports-jets-behind-scenes-adam-gase-mike-maccagnan-20190517-wnaoganfijefdi452rtuxb4tsa-story.html

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