So Who is Our Backup Center?

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

Are we talking about the same player who was beaten out for the starting position by Wes Johnson and Spencer Long the last two years?

In who's judgement, Toilet Bowles??  That speaks for itself, and needs no further comment. 

Spencer Long did not beat out anyone for the job.  He was recruited as a free agent by Maccagnan, { a failure of a GM that you guys love to tout for his failure to recognize talent} and was handed the job based on his stature and reputation in Washington.

Wesley Johnson was "next man up" after Mangold left.  Again you're talking about Maccagnan and Bowles.  No surprise there.  Last year many players voiced that Harrison was more deserving of the position than Long, before the injury.  I'll go with them, rather than the two idiots.

Like Choon, you are free to suggest options, better than Harrison.  I believe that you posted one.  Post some more and we can discuss them.  Until then...…..

[Lith]

I am guessing that by the time September rolls around our back-up Center will either be Harrison, or someone not currenlty on the roster with Harrison as the starter.  I would guess our new GM, whomever he may be, will add an experienced vet at the very leat that can compete with Harrison.

[Wonderboy]

17 hours ago, TNJet said:

Just curious if Harrison gets injured, then what? Can that Tom Compton guy play any Center? He seems to be our only backup with starting experience. 

What you mean jellybean. Our starting center IS our backup center.

[section314]

16 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Sorry Choon, the stats don't bear that out.  I also viewed our line as the worst in the league, with the Cardinals being worse. Truth is they were slightly worse than middle of the road in pass protection. 

Saying this one sucks and that one sucks, is not a solution to the problem.  My point is that Harrison is at least adequate as our center for the time being, and no amount of bitching an moaning is going to change that. 

Poor coaching and game planning may have also been a big reason.  With the weak tit Bowles and Bates in charge, would you be surprised if we were greatly improved with a new coaching staff, blocking scheme and LeVeon Bell running the ball instead of "Dog" Crowell?  I wouldn't.

You guys complain about who we have,  who then do you suggest?  Wisnewski?  Please.  I'll wait for suggestions.....

Would be interesting to know if that final ranking improved, got worse or stayed about even when Harrison took over.

[Thai Jet]

15 hours ago, SayNoToDMC said:

I don't even know who our starting center is going to be but I sure hope he's not on the roster right now

He may very well not be.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Hey Joe!  

I have a question and a response to the above. I'll begin with the response. Harrison was allowed to walk while playing on a desperate Colts team that needed all kinds of offensive line help. He may not be some UDFA with no experience, but he was a Undrafted Rookie Free Agent who got a 3 year opportunity with the Colts and they let him walk. 

Now to my question. You stated in bold that Harrison was "far from the weakest link", which requires me to ask you. In the 8 games total that Harrison started for the Jets. Who were the weakest links...in order? 

Trust, I've always known that this offensive line was below average. But you said that "The fans on this board should be just as concerned about Winters, Shell, or Beachum, maybe more so". So are you saying that Harrison was better than those guys during his 8 games? 

And it's not a trick question, as I was on board to trade down "multiple times" and stacking up on Center, guard and tackle given that our starters are either below average or at best average but are old and need to be replaced. Im just curious to know if this is your way of saying that Harrison was the best Olineman we had based on how "far" he was from being the weakest link. So I would just to like to know how you ranked the linemen during those 8 games.  

So I have a question. It's clear that you feel like the Jets may have missed out on a Free Agent Center that may have been better than Harrison, but you said...and I quote: "Harrison is better than any other options that have been out there.  Get over it.". 

Was Harrison better than every rookie Center in the draft as well? I think that's fair to ask since those Centers were just as available come draft day as the free agent centers were during free agency. 

It seems like you believe that he will do fine, and I hope you're right given that we didnt address Center whatsoever. But you seem to be rather emphatic about it again, given the bold along with the "enough already" statement. Are you boldly suggesting that Harrison is an above average Center? I mean, the way you're speaking seems that you're pretty secure in this position, and I would just like to know for sure if that is the case...or are you just speaking through frustration and/or the fact that folks simply dont see it your way. 

I do understand that by default, Harrison was much better than a man who couldnt even hike a football. And though I will give him credit for being better than that, I will say at the same time that it doesnt take much to be better than that when all you have to do is hike the ball to the QB to be better than what Long was putting out on the field. 

Furthermore, you mentioned his starts in Indy. What was your thoughts on his performance with the Colts and why did they let go a guy who you seem so confident in? 

Now, im not saying that a man cant develop, but I guess seeing what your response to my initial question is along with the rest he will clarify how you really view him...or if you're simply tired of the criticism of a position that our former GM didnt address in respects to draft picks (let alone premium draft picks) throughout his entire regime. And that can also be said for the rest of the oline as well in respects to drafting Oline with top 3 picks in the draft. 

Hey Villain,

The weakest links in order would be Winters, formerly a steady if not spectacular performer:  Carpenter, whose play deteriorated over the course of the last two years, to the point of embarrassment.

  Next up would be Shell, whose  perceived upside took a giant step back last year, prior to his injury.  He was beaten consistently off the edge last season, a trait that was not previously seen.  He was replaced by Qvale, who does not belong on a football field anywhere, much less an NFL one.

Beachum who graded out the best of the bunch was also horrible in my opinion.  Do we really need to discuss Spencer Long and his comedic performance at center?? Nah...

I also campaigned "Long" and hard for the Jets to trade back, in order to rebuild the line. Didn't happen. They reportedly were trying to draft Conner McGovern, as a solution.  I am a Penn State fan, who has seen plenty of him over the past couple of years.  Not impressed, especially this season.  As for the revamping and replacement of the line, we are on the same page.

You, like the others, offer no better option than Harrison.  Guess it's just easier to sit back an nit pick.  As for what happened in Indianapolis, I don't know, and don't care.  I'm not a Colts fan. As for Harrison, I am hopeful that he will do a good job, as I do with the rest of the Line, and team.  That doesn't mean I think he's an All Pro.  He most likely is not.  It's not about seeing it "my way".  My way would have been Morse, at a reasonable number.  Again, didn't happen.  So here we are. 

The enough already was more about the constant droning and complaining about a situation that has already transpired. You seem to want to deal with this in "absolutes" as a way of making "your case".  I'm not going to play that.  My post did not tout Jonothan Harrison as the "second coming".  I simply stated that he will, as of this moment, be our starter, and that he is no more a "problem" than others on the line. That's it.  Plain and Simple.

 

[Jetster]

14 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Jonothan Harrison has started 28 games at center in the NFL, including 8 games for the Jets last year.  It is not like he is some UDFA who has no experience in the league at the position. 

He played admirably at Center last year, and was far from the "weakest link" on the line when he played. The fans on this board should be just as concerned about Winters, Shell, or Beachum, maybe more so.  Likewise, Brett Qvale is still on the roster, shouldn't that bother you??

The Jets missed out on Morse, who was made the top paid Center in the league.  Maybe, they missed out on that one.  We'll see.  Paradis was damaged goods.  No thanks.  Stephen Wisnewski was washed several years ago,  Harrison is better than him, and any other options that have been out there.  Get over it.  Until further notice, he is our starting center.  I think he'll do fine.  Enough Already.

I'm not a fan of Winters & I hope to God Chuma beats him out eventually at RG. Or anyone for that matter. Talk about a guy whose contract was too high relative to his production & health. With 40 million next year, maybe more if this new GM decides to trade Leonard Williams, we need our recourses to put a kickass line around him. Finding a top LT would be sweet.

[peebag]

So the plan of getting a starting center is to "wait and see" what shakes loose after training camp roster cuts?

Jebus H. Cripes......

[choon328]

2 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Sorry Choon, the stats don't bear that out.  I also viewed our line as the worst in the league, with the Cardinals being worse. Truth is they were slightly worse than middle of the road in pass protection. 

Saying this one sucks and that one sucks, is not a solution to the problem.  My point is that Harrison is at least adequate as our center for the time being, and no amount of bitching an moaning is going to change that. 

Poor coaching and game planning may have also been a big reason.  With the weak tit Bowles and Bates in charge, would you be surprised if we were greatly improved with a new coaching staff, blocking scheme and LeVeon Bell running the ball instead of "Dog" Crowell?  I wouldn't.

You guys complain about who we have,  who then do you suggest?  Wisnewski?  Please.  I'll wait for suggestions.....

I suggested a ton of people prior to FA and the draft. I've been pretty damn consistent since then so I can still complain about it. They dropped the ball. And Wisniewski would have been an upgrade over Harrison for sure.  

The argument that Harrison is "adequate" is not compelling and absurd in my mind. They just drafted their Franchise QB last year then had a season filled with disaster from the Center position in front of him. Then they followed that up by not significantly upgrading that position which I can argue is the most important position on the offensive line to a young QB. If the 4 other players around him were already a solid group I could get on board with Harrison but that's just not the case. Osemele is very good, Winters, Beachum and Shell are all average at best.

As far as what I would do now is pray that the failure of Macc and the rest of the FO doesn't get Darnold seriously hurt or force him to regress.

People have been discounting the offensive line all off-season and it's a mistake to think like that.

I think about how since the draft I've heard excuse after excuse about how Quinnen was a good pick bc it's important to get interior pressure to disrupt QB's. If that's the case then isn't it just as important to find people to stop the interior pass rush? Harrison is arguably the worst lineman on a team full of average offensive lineman.

The Jets were one of the 3 worst offensive lines when it came to rushing and overall were in the top 5 worst offensive lines in the NFL in 2018. What have they done to suggest that will get better? Osemele is 1 man surrounded by mediocrity.

[Philc1]

So if Harrison ends up being a decent NFL center like Marquise Goodwin will you guys stop crying like b-tches?

[Villain The Foe]

5 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Hey Villain,

The weakest links in order would be Winters, formerly a steady if not spectacular performer:  Carpenter, whose play deteriorated over the course of the last two years, to the point of embarrassment.

  Next up would be Shell, whose  perceived upside took a giant step back last year, prior to his injury.  He was beaten consistently off the edge last season, a trait that was not previously seen.  He was replaced by Qvale, who does not belong on a football field anywhere, much less an NFL one.

Beachum who graded out the best of the bunch was also horrible in my opinion.  Do we really need to discuss Spencer Long and his comedic performance at center?? Nah...

I also campaigned "Long" and hard for the Jets to trade back, in order to rebuild the line. Didn't happen. They reportedly were trying to draft Conner McGovern, as a solution.  I am a Penn State fan, who has seen plenty of him over the past couple of years.  Not impressed, especially this season.  As for the revamping and replacement of the line, we are on the same page.

You, like the others, offer no better option than Harrison.  Guess it's just easier to sit back an nit pick.  As for what happened in Indianapolis, I don't know, and don't care.  I'm not a Colts fan. As for Harrison, I am hopeful that he will do a good job, as I do with the rest of the Line, and team.  That doesn't mean I think he's an All Pro.  He most likely is not.  It's not about seeing it "my way".  My way would have been Morse, at a reasonable number.  Again, didn't happen.  So here we are. 

The enough already was more about the constant droning and complaining about a situation that has already transpired. You seem to want to deal with this in "absolutes" as a way of making "your case".  I'm not going to play that.  My post did not tout Jonothan Harrison as the "second coming".  I simply stated that he will, as of this moment, be our starter, and that he is no more a "problem" than others on the line. That's it.  Plain and Simple.

 

Pretty understandable up until the bolded though. Me, like others offered better options...it's just that now we're past those options because we had a GM who didnt believe in building an Oline but believed in drafting QB's, paying QB's and now paying RB's...all who by the way have to operate behind that offensive line.  

There are no options now because those options have been exhausted...so I wouldnt call that easily sitting back and nitpicking, though I would say that it's much easier to nitpick the fact that a guy has started a bunch a games that you've self-proclaimed as having never seen, nor do you care about it given that you're not a Colts fan. 

Well, if that's the case, why even mention past starts that you dont know or even care to know anything about? There are tons of players who had starting experience all over this league, came here and also started some games, but it didnt make them suitable starters. 

I guess we're nitpicking because there's really no resume to suggest that he's an adequate starter. I have no problem that you disagree, but your boldly emphatic writing or out-of-context statement regarding nitpicking doesnt change the fact that the best Olineman on this team got here 15 minutes ago in Osemele and everyone on the line outside of Osemele could definitely be upgraded, which includes your guy Harrison, who literally sits with a "below average" grade from PFF. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jonotthan-harrison/9132

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but Harrison has done nothing on the field to warrant such emphatic positioning. Dude is a JAG, like the rest of that line. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Pretty understandable up until the bolded though. Me, like others offered better options...it's just that now we're past those options because we had a GM who didnt believe in building an Oline but believed in drafting QB's, paying QB's and now paying RB's...all who by the way have to operate behind that offensive line.  

There are no options now because those options have been exhausted...so I wouldnt call that easily sitting back and nitpicking, though I would say that it's much easier to nitpick the fact that a guy has started a bunch a games that you've self-proclaimed as having never seen, nor do you care about it given that you're not a Colts fan. 

Well, if that's the case, why even mention past starts that you dont know or even care to know anything about? There are tons of players who had starting experience all over this league, came here and also started some games, but it didnt make them suitable starters. 

I guess we're nitpicking because there's really no resume to suggest that he's an adequate starter. I have no problem that you disagree, but your boldly emphatic writing or out-of-context statement regarding nitpicking doesnt change the fact that the best Olineman on this team got here 15 minutes ago in Osemele and everyone on the line outside of Osemele could definitely be upgraded, which includes your guy Harrison, who literally sits with a "below average" grade from PFF. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jonotthan-harrison/9132

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but Harrison has done nothing on the field to warrant such emphatic positioning. Dude is a JAG, lke the rest of that line. 

What are you talking about??  Where are the "other options" you and the "others" have proposed?  I don't see them in these posts.  I see where you're going here.  Another rant about the deposed and irrelevant Mike Maccagnan.  He's history.  You need to get past that too.  The damage is done.  The horse has left the barn.  It's over.  Got it?

I have seen Jonothan Harrison play in 24 games as a New York Jet, 9 of those as a starter, including the 8 games last year.  That's over two years.  That's enough of a sample size for me to make a sound judgement on his playing ability.  I don't need to go back to his days as a Colt in order to do that.  Should we review his college tapes too?  How about high school?

There is really nothing constructive in what you and the "others" are doing here.  Like I said it's nit picking and whining.  If that's how you want to spend your time have at it.  It's pretty sad that Mike Maccagnan is gone, yet the primary focus and discussion is still about him and his legacy.  You can choose to make a federal case or debate about everything if you wish.  I'm not interested.  

Again you exaggerate and cherry pick tidbits in an effort to make "your point".  What is your point?   Mine is that Jonothan Harrison is an adequate starting center option for this team, this year.  That hardly makes him "my guy".  By the way if you are a Jet fan, he's your guy too.  Or do you reserve that status for just Baker Mayfield and the "immortal" Mike Glennon, who is the epitome of a JAG.  

The part of your response that I "bolded" is nonsense, and really doesn't make any sense.  Please try to do better.  As for PFF it is a useful tool, but is by no means the "lord's gospel" for rating football players.  You are right.  I am entitled to my opinion, as you are entitled to yours.  Mike Maccagnan no longer works for the Jets.  Feel better soon....

 

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

4 hours ago, choon328 said:

I suggested a ton of people prior to FA and the draft. I've been pretty damn consistent since then so I can still complain about it. They dropped the ball. And Wisniewski would have been an upgrade over Harrison for sure.  

The argument that Harrison is "adequate" is not compelling and absurd in my mind. They just drafted their Franchise QB last year then had a season filled with disaster from the Center position in front of him. Then they followed that up by not significantly upgrading that position which I can argue is the most important position on the offensive line to a young QB. If the 4 other players around him were already a solid group I could get on board with Harrison but that's just not the case. Osemele is very good, Winters, Beachum and Shell are all average at best.

As far as what I would do now is pray that the failure of Macc and the rest of the FO doesn't get Darnold seriously hurt or force him to regress.

People have been discounting the offensive line all off-season and it's a mistake to think like that.

I think about how since the draft I've heard excuse after excuse about how Quinnen was a good pick bc it's important to get interior pressure to disrupt QB's. If that's the case then isn't it just as important to find people to stop the interior pass rush? Harrison is arguably the worst lineman on a team full of average offensive lineman.

The Jets were one of the 3 worst offensive lines when it came to rushing and overall were in the top 5 worst offensive lines in the NFL in 2018. What have they done to suggest that will get better? Osemele is 1 man surrounded by mediocrity.

Choon, what is absurd is that you still consider Wisnewski an option as an adequate solution at center.  His former team moved out of that position last year, as a replacement, because he was so woeful.  He sure was highly regarded and pursued in the most recent free agency period, wasn't he? Harrison is surely a superior player to Wisnewski at this juncture, that is for sure.

Jonothan Harrison started the last 8 games of the season as the starting center. Sam Darnold started in five of them.  The first was Harrison's first start, and Sam's last before the "injury break".  It was not good.  Sam's last four starts with Harrison as the starting center, Darnold was the top rated quarterback in the league.  Remember that?  Not exactly a disaster.  

Quinnen Williams has nothing to do with the state of the offensive line.  If we had traded down it would be a different story.  We didn't and at the #3 pick, he was the best player available and the best option.  The best we can hope for is that the line is improved with a superior coaching staff and some better play calling and line schemes.  

Sam will be fine.  No need to pray.  If they did one thing adequately last season, according to statistics, it was protect the quarterback.

Nobody's making excuses here.  You play the hand you're dealt.  If you have a problem with it send a letter to Mike Maccagnan.  I'm sure he's got plenty of time to respond.

 

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, Lith said:

I am guessing that by the time September rolls around our back-up Center will either be Harrison, or someone not currenlty on the roster with Harrison as the starter.  I would guess our new GM, whomever he may be, will add an experienced vet at the very leat that can compete with Harrison.

@Warfish is up next if needed.  

[Villain The Foe]

52 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

What are you talking about??  Where are the "other options" you and the "others" have proposed?  I don't see them in these posts.  I see where you're going here.  Another rant about the deposed and irrelevant Mike Maccagnan.  He's history.  You need to get past that too.  The damage is done.  The horse has left the barn.  It's over.  Got it?

I have seen Jonothan Harrison play in 24 games as a New York Jet, 9 of those as a starter, including the 8 games last year.  That's over two years.  That's enough of a sample size for me to make a sound judgement on his playing ability.  I don't need to go back to his days as a Colt in order to do that.  Should we review his college tapes too?  How about high school?

There is really nothing constructive in what you and the "others" are doing here.  Like I said it's nit picking and whining.  If that's how you want to spend your time have at it.  It's pretty sad that Mike Maccagnan is gone, yet the primary focus and discussion is still about him and his legacy.  You can choose to make a federal case or debate about everything if you wish.  I'm not interested.  

Again you exaggerate and cherry pick tidbits in an effort to make "your point".  What is your point?   Mine is that Jonothan Harrison is an adequate starting center option for this team, this year.  That hardly makes him "my guy".  By the way if you are a Jet fan, he's your guy too.  Or do you reserve that status for just Baker Mayfield and the "immortal" Mike Glennon, who is the epitome of a JAG.  

The part of your response that I "bolded" is nonsense, and really doesn't make any sense.  Please try to do better.  As for PFF it is a useful tool, but is by no means the "lord's gospel" for rating football players.  You are right.  I am entitled to my opinion, as you are entitled to yours.  Mike Maccagnan no longer works for the Jets.  Feel better soon....

 

 

The fact that you dont see them in the posts here doesnt mean that they're not on this forum. More importantly, those options suggested go back for years. 

You seem alittle amp'd. "You see where this is going"? It seems like it's going where you just took it. But since this is not a Macc rant, or a rant at all, I wonder what's the reason behind attempting to poke at me with what you think would trigger me? 

Back on topic, it's great that you seen his time as a Jet. Im just saying, use that info as a Jet instead of mentioning starts that you dont even care to know about. Harrison was picked up by the Colts in 2014, 2 years and 19 starts later the Colts decided to draft a Center in the 1st round. 4 more starts in 2016 and Harrison was off the team. It's clear that he can be a stop gap when you have nothing else adequate around, that's been his history. What are you talking about, "high school"???  what's going on with you? 

There is something constructive that myself and others are doing, it's called not accepting lame or non moves and giving our opinions on the situation, and depending on the thread and conversation, providing our suggestions as a solution. Yet you're so triggered over what I thought was a good conversation that you're looking to side track this conversation into something while at the same time trying to suggest that im doing it by assuming that you know what im doing! lmao. What im doing is stating that you dont need to be so emphatic about a JAG, take it from a guy who's been emphatic about a JAG before (Mike Glennon...the immortal one). 

And speaking of Glennon, I'll skip over your emphatic bolding (again) along with the constant inclusion of Maccagnan...given that I see what you're doing and I wont allow you to side track this given this attitude of yours over a cool convo.

No one called PFF the gospel, it's pretty evident that the Old Testament is the history of the world along with the mosaic laws, and the New Testament is about the gospels. PFF, however evaluates players well enough to get the attention of front offices and the league itself. So though it isnt the gospel, making such a statement doesnt change the fact that it's a credible source when it comes to player performance eval's. 

Like, duh...

[Peace Frog]

I think with Osemele to the left and a fully healthy Winters to the right Harrison will be a more than adequate Center. 

Do I want a pro bowler in front of Sam?

Of course. I do not think Harrison is going to be a weak link and certainly not like Wayne Hunter our on an island getting Mark killed on a weekly basis. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Peace Frog said:

I think with Osemele to the left and a fully healthy Winters to the right Harrison will be a more than adequate Center. 

Do I want a pro bowler in front of Sam?

Of course. I do not think Harrison is going to be a weak link and certainly not like Wayne Hunter our on an island getting Mark killed on a weekly basis. 

 

Yeah, but it shows that it's not about the Center being adequate, but about the guards picking up the slack. 

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Yeah, but it shows that it's not about the Center being adequate, but about the guards picking up the slack. 

If that’s what you took from it. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

If that’s what you took from it. 

What should I have taken from it? 

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The fact that you dont see them in the posts here doesnt mean that they're not on this forum. More importantly, those options suggested go back for years. 

You seem alittle amp'd. "You see where this is going"? It seems like it's going where you just took it. But since this is not a Macc rant, or a rant at all, I wonder what's the reason behind attempting to poke at me with what you think would trigger me? 

Back on topic, it's great that you seen his time as a Jet. Im just saying, use that info as a Jet instead of mentioning starts that you dont even care to know about. Harrison was picked up by the Colts in 2014, 2 years and 19 starts later the Colts decided to draft a Center in the 1st round. 4 more starts in 2016 and Harrison was off the team. It's clear that he can be a stop gap when you have nothing else adequate around, that's been his history. What are you talking about, "high school"???  what's going on with you? 

There is something constructive that myself and others are doing, it's called not accepting lame or non moves and giving our opinions on the situation, and depending on the thread and conversation, providing our suggestions as a solution. Yet you're so triggered over what I thought was a good conversation that you're looking to side track this conversation into something while at the same time trying to suggest that im doing it by assuming that you know what im doing! lmao. What im doing is stating that you dont need to be so emphatic about a JAG, take it from a guy who's been emphatic about a JAG before (Mike Glennon...the immortal one). 

And speaking of Glennon, I'll skip over your emphatic bolding (again) along with the constant inclusion of Maccagnan...given that I see what you're doing and I wont allow you to side track this given this attitude of yours over a cool convo.

No one called PFF the gospel, it's pretty evident that the Old Testament is the history of the world along with the mosaic laws, and the New Testament is about the gospels. PFF, however evaluates players well enough to get the attention of front offices and the league itself. So though it isnt the gospel, making such a statement doesnt change the fact that it's a credible source when it comes to player performance eval's. 

Like, duh...

There is nothing constructive in taking a statement about our de facto starting center, as of this moment, and turning it into a "dissertation on Roast Pig", as you have done.

  What I am emphatic about is that he was as good as any member of the less than stellar offensive line of last season, and that he will be adequate, or better this coming season.  I didn't nominate him for induction to the Hall of Fame. I also stated that he is a better option at this point than Wisnewski, or a rookie such as Connor McGovern.  I stand by that.  I  also did not mention Mike Maccagnan in my posts, you and others did.

I also know the "history" of Harrison's time with the Colts.  Is the fact that they moved on from him an indictment of his ability or future status in the league?  He's not the first player to change teams.  Jim Plunket had a fairly successful career after being cut.  Vinnie Testaverde too.  There are a thousand examples,  What of it?

Congratulations on the dossier of years of suggestions and options involving solutions to the New York Jets of 2019 Offensive Line woes.  Not reiterating those options, or suggesting new ones, and instead droning on and on how inadequate the current players are, is whining, plain and simple.  Thus the "get over it", comment.

Beating a dead horse, {Mike Maccagnan}, is not my idea of a "cool conversation".  It is tired, worn, and at this point both tedious and inane.  It's time to move on.  I have.  Four+ years is enough, don't you think?

[choon328]

48 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Choon, what is absurd is that you still consider Wisnewski an option as an adequate solution at center.  His former team moved out of that position last year, as a replacement, because he was so woeful.  He sure was highly regarded and pursued in the most recent free agency period, wasn't he? Harrison is surely a superior player to Wisnewski at this juncture, that is for sure.

Jonothan Harrison started the last 8 games of the season as the starting center. Sam Darnold started in five of them.  The first was Harrison's first start, and Sam's last before the "injury break".  It was not good.  Sam's last four starts with Harrison as the starting center, Darnold was the top rated quarterback in the league.  Remember that?  Not exactly a disaster.  

Quinnen Williams has nothing to do with the state of the offensive line.  If we had traded down it would be a different story.  We didn't and at the #3 pick, he was the best player available and the best option.  The best we can hope for is that the line is improved with a superior coaching staff and some better play calling and line schemes.  

Sam will be fine.  No need to pray.  If they did one thing adequately last season, according to statistics, it was protect the quarterback.

Nobody's making excuses here.  You play the hand you're dealt.  If you have a problem with it send a letter to Mike Maccagnan.  I'm sure he's got plenty of time to respond.

 

If you're basing Harrison's play off of how Darnold played I understand why you're not concerned. Individually, which is how a player should be judged, Harrison was not playing as a starting capable Center in those 8 games. He was ranked the 30th overall Center in the NFL at the end of the year and that's with only playing half the season. I can't believe anybody would be ok with that. But you and others can rationalize it however you want.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

If you're basing Harrison's play off of how Darnold played I understand why you're not concerned. Individually, which is how a player should be judged, Harrison was not playing as a starting capable Center in those 8 games. He was ranked the 30th overall Center in the NFL at the end of the year and that's with only playing half the season. I can't believe anybody would be ok with that. But you and others can rationalize it however you want.

And you and others can wring your hands and stomp your feet.  It will not change the status quo.  But, if that's what makes you happy, have at it. 

Like I said, Adam Gase, Osmele Kelechi, and members of the New York Jets feel differently. You, Villain, and RobR disagree.  No offense, but my money's with them.  That's not a rationalization.  That's a reasonable judgement.

[Villain The Foe]

9 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

There is nothing constructive in taking a statement about our de facto starting center, as of this moment, and turning it into a "dissertation on Roast Pig", as you have done.

  What I am emphatic about is that he was as good as any member of the less than stellar offensive line of last season, and that he will be adequate, or better this coming season.  I didn't nominate him for induction to the Hall of Fame. I also stated that he is a better option at this point than Wisnewski, or a rookie such as Connor McGovern.  I stand by that.  I  also did not mention Mike Maccagnan in my posts, you and others did.

I also know the "history" of Harrison's time with the Colts.  Is the fact that they moved on from him an indictment of his ability or future status in the league?  He's not the first player to change teams.  Jim Plunket had a fairly successful career after being cut.  Vinnie Testaverde too.  There are a thousand examples,  What of it?

Congratulations on the dossier of years of suggestions and options involving solutions to the New York Jets of 2019 Offensive Line woes.  Not reiterating those options, or suggesting new ones, and instead droning on and on how inadequate the current players are, is whining, plain and simple.  Thus the "get over it", comment.

Beating a dead horse, {Mike Maccagnan}, is not my idea of a "cool conversation".  It is tired, worn, and at this point both tedious and inane.  It's time to move on.  I have.  Four+ years is enough, don't you think?

You're clearly salty and uneasy about something. I'll wait for you to get better.

Speak to you tomorrow bro. 

[RobR]

8 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

In who's judgement, Toilet Bowles??  That speaks for itself, and needs no further comment. 

Spencer Long did not beat out anyone for the job.  He was recruited as a free agent by Maccagnan, { a failure of a GM that you guys love to tout for his failure to recognize talent} and was handed the job based on his stature and reputation in Washington.

Wesley Johnson was "next man up" after Mangold left.  Again you're talking about Maccagnan and Bowles.  No surprise there.  Last year many players voiced that Harrison was more deserving of the position than Long, before the injury.  I'll go with them, rather than the two idiots.

Like Choon, you are free to suggest options, better than Harrison.  I believe that you posted one.  Post some more and we can discuss them.  Until then...…..

I posted that Harrison was beaten out for the starting job by Wesley Johnson, which is a fact. I also think most will agree that Johnson was a terrible center.

He was also beaten out by Long, that is also a fact. I think most will agree that Long was a disaster at center but only because he had an injured hand and couldn't get the most basic aspect of the job down.....the Center/QB exchange. When moved to guard he was serviceable.

You state that you watched Harrison over the last couple of years and you are fine with him being our starting center. I'll counter that you don't know what you are looking at because he has been a terrible center when he was inserted as a starter. I don't care for PFF much but he was rated as one of the worst centers in the league and it's plain as day if you watched him on every play. He has no functional strength and gets pushed back constantly, he's not very nimble so he doesn't give you much when it comes to pulling or trap plays. That is my analysis of Harrison.

Is he a good player to have on your roster.....sure he is.....as a backup. And I'll stick to my initial assessment when it comes to Jets fans regarding Harrison. He could execute the center/QB exchange and that is why some are happy with him, like yourself. It doesn't change the fact that he is a beyond below average center and it was another of the big fails that he wasn't upgraded this year. 

Also spare me the BS about what Osemele says about him. Do you really think he's going to call out his new teammate? If you do then you don't understand how these things work. Gase also brought up the point that he struggles against the bigger players but yet you left that conveniently out of your argument. 

He's the weakest link on an already mediocre offensive line. Keep telling us how you're OK with him as our starting center.....I've already laid out why I think that's asinine. As usual we'll see how it plays out this year.

[RobR]

37 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

And you and others can wring your hands and stomp your feet.  It will not change the status quo.  But, if that's what makes you happy, have at it. 

Like I said, Adam Gase, Osmele Kelechi, and members of the New York Jets feel differently. You, Villain, and RobR disagree.  No offense, but my money's with them.  That's not a rationalization.  That's a reasonable judgement.

When your team has had the worst starting centers for the past two years it should have been a priority with over $100 mil too spend in free agency to get it fixed. Even Gase has been lukewarm about him and reiterated he wanted to upgrade the position this offseason. He talked about how he felt better because our schedule this season didn't have any stud NT's we would be facing. You want to call that a ringing endorsement....go right ahead. Some of us can filter through the BS and see that Harrison will grade out as one of the worst centers in the league. You're good with that because you love everything this franchise does, regardless of the results.

What did you really think a guy like Osmele Kelechi(whoever that is) was going too say? The truth?

[choon328]

43 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

And you and others can wring your hands and stomp your feet.  It will not change the status quo.  But, if that's what makes you happy, have at it. 

Like I said, Adam Gase, Osmele Kelechi, and members of the New York Jets feel differently. You, Villain, and RobR disagree.  No offense, but my money's with them.  That's not a rationalization.  That's a reasonable judgement.

Lol. Adam Gase was beating the table for Paradis and Macc declined to offer him anything. Of course members of the Jets organization will publicly say how good Harrison can be. Talk about gullible

[Peace Frog]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

What should I have taken from it? 

 

Whatever you desire. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

34 minutes ago, RobR said:

I posted that Harrison was beaten out for the starting job by Wesley Johnson, which is a fact. I also think most will agree that Johnson was a terrible center.

He was also beaten out by Long, that is also a fact. I think most will agree that Long was a disaster at center but only because he had an injured hand and couldn't get the most basic aspect of the job down.....the Center/QB exchange. When moved to guard he was serviceable.

You state that you watched Harrison over the last couple of years and you are fine with him being our starting center. I'll counter that you don't know what you are looking at because he has been a terrible center when he was inserted as a starter. I don't care for PFF much but he was rated as one of the worst centers in the league and it's plain as day if you watched him on every play. He has no functional strength and gets pushed back constantly, he's not very nimble so he doesn't give you much when it comes to pulling or trap plays. That is my analysis of Harrison.

Is he a good player to have on your roster.....sure he is.....as a backup. And I'll stick to my initial assessment when it comes to Jets fans regarding Harrison. He could execute the center/QB exchange and that is why some are happy with him, like yourself. It doesn't change the fact that he is a beyond below average center and it was another of the big fails that he wasn't upgraded this year. 

Also spare me the BS about what Osemele says about him. Do you really think he's going to call out his new teammate? If you do then you don't understand how these things work. Gase also brought up the point that he struggles against the bigger players but yet you left that conveniently out of your argument. 

He's the weakest link on an already mediocre offensive line. Keep telling us how you're OK with him as our starting center.....I've already laid out why I think that's asinine. As usual we'll see how it plays out this year.

When Wesley Johnson "won" the starting center job, upon the departure of Mangold,  Jonothan Harrison was in Indianapolis.  There was no "competition".  Wesley Johnson played adequately in his starts during the 2016 season, and was awarded the job the following year.  Harrison was new to the team in 2017, there was no competition.  You well know, Toilet Bowles reluctance to insert anyone new into  the lineup, so a change at center was not going to happen.  Wesley Johnson proceeded to suck for 15 games and was let go.

The Jets signed Long to a generous free agent contract in the offseason, so tell me, what were the chances that Long was not going to start the season at center?  Right, none.  So the fallacy that he beat out Harrison does not exist.  Still, many in the room {fellow players} felt that Harrison deserved to start.  I will agree that Long was serviceable at guard, but at center, bad hand or not, he was a disaster.

I am fine with Harrison being the starter based on him being the best option at hand.  I wanted Morse.  The Jets did not want to pay him to be the highest salaried center in the league.  The Chiefs didn't either.  Who knows if he even considered the Jets.  We cannot place blame for what we do not know.

Paradis was/is damaged goods.  His former team held him in such little regard, they offered him a one year contract.  They know him better than we do.  Still, the Jets brought him in for an interview.  He is a country boy, and word is that he wanted to play outside of the city.  He got his wish.  Good luck to him.  Gase "pounded the table for him"?   Yeah, right.

Connor McGovern, who the Jets reportedly were targeting in the draft, is from Penn State.  I've watched him play.  Plenty.  He is not great.  Would you have liked to see a mediocre rookie starting the season in front of Sam?  I wouldn't.  Wisnewski has been washed up for several years.  He is not the answer.  He was so bad he was moved to guard because he was unserviceable as a center in a backup role.

Don't try to tell me that me and others are satisfied with him because he can snap the ball. Now, that is asinine. You can't have it both ways with PFF, holding them up as gospel when you agree, and disregarding them when you don't.  Let's just agree that they like every other measuring system, have their attributes and faults.  It is not a perfect science.

  As for Osemele, why did he choose to comment on Harrison over all others?  Are they cousins?  If he felt differently, he wouldn't have commented.  He wasn't asked.  As for Gase, his compliments weren't tempered with criticism as you allege.  As we know, in his short time here, he doesn't exactly throw around the compliments.

Like I said, he is the best option we have at this point.  Thanks for your analysis.  I disagree.  Like you said, we'll see how it plays out this year.  We always do.

[choon328]

12 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

When Wesley Johnson "won" the starting center job, upon the departure of Mangold,  Jonothan Harrison was in Indianapolis.  There was no "competition".  Wesley Johnson played adequately in his starts during the 2016 season, and was awarded the job the following year.  Harrison was new to the team in 2017, there was no competition.  You well know, Toilet Bowles reluctance to insert anyone new into  the lineup, so a change at center was not going to happen.  Wesley Johnson proceeded to suck for 15 games and was let go.

The Jets signed Long to a generous free agent contract in the offseason, so tell me, what were the chances that Long was not going to start the season at center?  Right, none.  So the fallacy that he beat out Harrison does not exist.  Still, many in the room {fellow players} felt that Harrison deserved to start.  I will agree that Long was serviceable at guard, but at center, bad hand or not, he was a disaster.

I am fine with Harrison being the starter based on him being the best option at hand.  I wanted Morse.  The Jets did not want to pay him to be the highest salaried center in the league.  The Chiefs didn't either.  Who knows if he even considered the Jets.  We cannot place blame for what we do not know.

Paradis was/is damaged goods.  His former team held him in such little regard, they offered him a one year contract.  They know him better than we do.  Still, the Jets brought him in for an interview.  He is a country boy, and word is that he wanted to play outside of the city.  He got his wish.  Good luck to him.  Gase "pounded the table for him"?   Yeah, right.

Connor McGovern, who the Jets reportedly were targeting in the draft, is from Penn State.  I've watched him play.  Plenty.  He is not great.  Would you have liked to see a mediocre rookie starting the season in front of Sam?  I wouldn't.  Wisnewski has been washed up for several years.  He is not the answer.  He was so bad he was moved to guard because he was unserviceable as a center in a backup role.

Don't try to tell me that me and others are satisfied with him because he can snap the ball. Now, that is asinine. You can't have it both ways with PFF, holding them up as gospel when you agree, and disregarding them when you don't.  Let's just agree that they like every other measuring system, have their attributes and faults.  It is not a perfect science.

  As for Osemele, why did he choose to comment on Harrison over all others?  Are they cousins?  If he felt differently, he wouldn't have commented.  He wasn't asked.  As for Gase, his compliments weren't tempered with criticism as you allege.  As we know, in his short time here, he doesn't exactly throw around the compliments.

Like I said, he is the best option we have at this point.  Thanks for your analysis.  I disagree.  Like you said, we'll see how it plays out this year.  We always do.

You literally said you know Harrison played well bc Darnold played well his last 4 games. That is one of the most uninformed ignorant statements ever made on this board and there have been plenty. 

[RobR]

19 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

When Wesley Johnson "won" the starting center job, upon the departure of Mangold,  Jonothan Harrison was in Indianapolis.  There was no "competition".  Wesley Johnson played adequately in his starts during the 2016 season, and was awarded the job the following year.  Harrison was new to the team in 2017, there was no competition.  You well know, Toilet Bowles reluctance to insert anyone new into  the lineup, so a change at center was not going to happen.  Wesley Johnson proceeded to suck for 15 games and was let go.

The Jets signed Long to a generous free agent contract in the offseason, so tell me, what were the chances that Long was not going to start the season at center?  Right, none.  So the fallacy that he beat out Harrison does not exist.  Still, many in the room {fellow players} felt that Harrison deserved to start.  I will agree that Long was serviceable at guard, but at center, bad hand or not, he was a disaster.

I am fine with Harrison being the starter based on him being the best option at hand.  I wanted Morse.  The Jets did not want to pay him to be the highest salaried center in the league.  The Chiefs didn't either.  Who knows if he even considered the Jets.  We cannot place blame for what we do not know.

Paradis was/is damaged goods.  His former team held him in such little regard, they offered him a one year contract.  They know him better than we do.  Still, the Jets brought him in for an interview.  He is a country boy, and word is that he wanted to play outside of the city.  He got his wish.  Good luck to him.  Gase "pounded the table for him"?   Yeah, right.

Connor McGovern, who the Jets reportedly were targeting in the draft, is from Penn State.  I've watched him play.  Plenty.  He is not great.  Would you have liked to see a mediocre rookie starting the season in front of Sam?  I wouldn't.  Wisnewski has been washed up for several years.  He is not the answer.  He was so bad he was moved to guard because he was unserviceable as a center in a backup role.

Don't try to tell me that me and others are satisfied with him because he can snap the ball. Now, that is asinine. You can't have it both ways with PFF, holding them up as gospel when you agree, and disregarding them when you don't.  Let's just agree that they like every other measuring system, have their attributes and faults.  It is not a perfect science.

  As for Osemele, why did he choose to comment on Harrison over all others?  Are they cousins?  If he felt differently, he wouldn't have commented.  He wasn't asked.  As for Gase, his compliments weren't tempered with criticism as you allege.  As we know, in his short time here, he doesn't exactly throw around the compliments.

Like I said, he is the best option we have at this point.  Thanks for your analysis.  I disagree.  Like you said, we'll see how it plays out this year.  We always do.

Wesley Johnson was in the starting mix for 2017 and he beat out Harrison. You can frame it any way you want but that is the fact. Then you say Johnson sucked....so what does that say about Harrison?

If Harrison was so good going into 2018 why did we even need too sign Long? 

Iv'e also said that we have had the worst starting centers in the NFL for two years now, and we will be going into our third year. Why are we talking about this year trying to fix the center position when it should have been addressed years ago? 

I agree about PFF. I personally think they suck especially when it comes down to certain positions. 

Osemele probably commented because he was trying to stick up for his little brother that was getting bullied in the media. Center has been the most polarizing position on our offensive line since we lost Mangold and we have done nothing to improve it.

At this point I think he is more than likely our best chance at center for this year......that still doesn't make me feel good.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

14 minutes ago, choon328 said:

You literally said you know Harrison played well bc Darnold played well his last 4 games. That is one of the most uninformed ignorant statements ever made on this board and there have been plenty. 

Judging the source, the insult doesn't move me much. Plenty of your posts can be viewed as ignorant.  Citing Wisnewski as a solution about says it all.  What you are most consistent in doing is bitching and moaning.

  If you used your eyes, you would have seen that the line was much more stable over the final four games of the season.  Darnold finally had some time to throw.  Harrison gets no credit for that?  Now THAT'S ignorant.

Since you've chosen to make this personal, feel free to f*ck off.  OK?

[choon328]

12 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Judging the source, the insult doesn't move me much. Plenty of your posts can be viewed as ignorant.  Citing Wisnewski as a solution about says it all.  What you are most consistent in doing is bitching and moaning.

  If you used your eyes, you would have seen that the line was much more stable over the final four games of the season.  Darnold finally had some time to throw.  Harrison gets no credit for that?  Now THAT'S ignorant.

Since you've chosen to make this personal, feel free to f*ck off.  OK?

We'll just overlook the fact that Darnold got sacked 9 times in the last 3 games. 2 out of the last 4 games he threw for a COMBINED 334 yds, 1 td & 1 int. We'll also overlook the fact that the running game cracked 100 yards only 1 time in those final 4 games as well and the only game over 100 included a 28 yard run by Darnold to get to 104 total rushing yards for the team. Or please continue to look passed the fact that over the final 4 games the Jets averaged 3.1 ypc as a team. 

So the logical conclusion with all of these facts is that you have no clue what you are talking about. Did you use your eyes bc it doesn't seem like you did. Or your brain for that matter.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

We'll just overlook the fact that Darnold got sacked 9 times in the last 3 games. 2 out of the last 4 games he threw for a COMBINED 334 yds, 1 td & 1 int. We'll also overlook the fact that the running game cracked 100 yards only 1 time in those final 4 games as well and the only game over 100 included a 28 yard run by Darnold to get to 104 total rushing yards for the team. Or please continue to look passed the fact that over the final 4 games the Jets averaged 3.1 ypc as a team. 

So the logical conclusion with all of these facts is that you have no clue what you are talking about. Did you use your eyes bc it doesn't seem like you did. Or your brain for that matter.

I'm confused.  What part of f*ck off did you not understand?  

[choon328]

7 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

I'm confused.  What part of f*ck off did you not understand?  

I know you're confused, I read your posts.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

11 hours ago, nyjets1969 said:

I dont think thats saying much think Luck was  one of the most hit QB that resulted him getting hurt and having shoulder surgery. There's a reason Indy cut him.

In 2016 the Colts took Ryan Kelly in the first round at 18. Obviously they were going for an upgrade but the other side of the coin is that Harrison was not replaced by a third or fourth rounder. Harrison is decent, but not much more. Let's hope with the replacement of Carpenter by Osmele the overall line takes a step up. Carpenter was done.