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Gase cleansing stench of this team

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I disagree. What made the Adams pick bad wasnt the talent, but the value of the position. Safety wasnt more valuable than QB and at the time we needed a QB and we had two of the top guys on the board and didnt have to draft up for the opportunity. 
With that said though, Adams is a top 5 safety in this league in just his 2nd year. Let's be real. 

I don’t know what you disagree with. I also have issue with the value of the picks. I never said anything about his talent, just his production from where he was taken.


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26 minutes ago, tkiss24 said:


I don’t know what you disagree with. I also have issue with the value of the picks. I never said anything about his talent, just his production from where he was taken.


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The bolded. Jamal Adams was a top 10 talent in that draft. His production justifies that. My point is, based on the roster at that time the position where production was needed the most was at QB. In that regard the pick was bad. 

But I disagree with anyone who says that what Jamal Adams has done in his first 2 seasons has clearly shown that he wasnt worth a top 10 pick. It's simply not true. It was clear in his first season that he had potential to be a top safety in the league, and in his 2nd year he was one of the best in the league. It would be difficult to say that there were 3 or 4 safeties in the league that had an outright better season than Jamal Adams. 

If you're talking about "production relative to position" then you certainly have a point, given that as stated, Watson and Mahomes were both available. But if you're talking about simply not being worth a top ten pick, I simply have to disagree. Jamal Adams was the only reason why the Jets defense was even watchable. 

Dude is a beast. 

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The bolded. Jamal Adams was a top 10 talent in that draft. His production justifies that. My point is, based on the roster at that time the position where production was needed the most was at QB. In that regard the pick was bad. 
But I disagree with anyone who says that what Jamal Adams has done in his first 2 seasons has clearly shown that he wasnt worth a top 10 pick. It's simply not true. It was clear in his first season that he had potential to be a top safety in the league, and in his 2nd year he was one of the best in the league. It would be difficult to say that there were 3 or 4 safeties in the league that had an outright better season than Jamal Adams. 
If you're talking about "production relative to position" then you certainly have a point, given that as stated, Watson and Mahomes were both available. But if you're talking about simply not being worth a top ten pick, I simply have to disagree. Jamal Adams was the only reason why the Jets defense was even watchable. 
Dude is a beast. 

He’s an excellent linebacker. Look Adams is very talented, but so far he’s been far more of an old school in the box type safety in a league where that is a dying brand. I want to see him be more of a force in the passing game. Get some INT’s. 1 in 32 games is not what I call great value for a safety at 6th overall


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26 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Any other GM desperate for a franchise QB for his QB-strapped team would have drafted Watson or Mahomes at 6 instead of a safety. Mac was too worried about pre draft rankings and all. He was a gutless coward and set the team back. At least he began the recovery by awkwardly landing Darnold (which just as easily could have been Josh Allen). Nothing against Adams, who is a nice safety, but please.... no comparison to the importance of the QB position. Maccagnan was a boob passing over QB.

You're changing the subject. It's clear what Macc was. it's also clear who he should have drafted. Im simply saying that Adams was considered a top 10 talent and he's lived up to that billing so far. 

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12 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You're changing the subject. It's clear what Macc was. it's also clear who he should have drafted. Im simply saying that Adams was considered a top 10 talent and he's lived up to that billing so far. 

He's a good safety. Top ten? He still has to prove that he is elite. You are not a top ten safety if you have just one INT in 2 years. He has NOT played to such an elite level yet. I hope he will but it's a huge stretch to say he's already there. Sorry, but not possible at this point of his career. Maybe next season we can claim hes top ten or top 5. Hope so. But not going to pretend like others do. Wishing doesn't make it come true.

p.s. the topic is Gase cleaning the stench. I didn't change the topic. Whoever started in about Adams changed the topic. Point your finger elsewhere dude. And get over yourself. You're at best a borderline Jets fan. 

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12 minutes ago, Dcat said:

He's a good safety. Top ten? He still has to prove that he is elite. You are not a top ten safety if you have just one INT in 2 years. He has NOT played to such an elite level yet. I hope he will but it's a huge stretch to say he's already there. Sorry, but not possible at this point of his career. Maybe next season we can claim hes top ten or top 5. Hope so. But not going to pretend like others do. Wishing doesn't make it come true.

p.s. the topic is Gase cleaning the stench. I didn't change the topic. Whoever started in about Adams changed the topic. Point your finger elsewhere dude. And get over yourself. You're at best a borderline Jets fan. 

I'll put it like this. 

There were 3 Safeties named as 1st team all pro this past season. Adams is one of the 3. 

Im not debating this. 

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

I'll put it like this. 

There were 3 Safeties named as 1st team all pro this past season. Adams is one of the 3. 

Im not debating this. 

         I agree, that's All Pro, not pro bowl.

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On 5/21/2019 at 7:38 AM, k-met57 said:

i am onboard with Gase. At least he isnt wishy washy like Macc was...he may fail but he will fail his way....or just maybe he will become the next BB.

Agreed....  I’d rather have this than a cigar store Indian like Bowles and an imposter like Mac or Idzik. 

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4 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

         I agree, that's All Pro, not pro bowl.

Facts. Anyone can go to the pro bowl these days, but if you're being named as a all pro, it's because you were elite at your position. 

If you're a top 10 Safety, you get a pro bowl nod, if you're an elite safety you get an all pro nod. 

It's really that simple. Folks like to tear down Adams because Macc was a moron. That's not Adams fault. Dude is probably the best talent on the team. 

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Facts. Anyone can go to the pro bowl these days, but if you're being named as a all pro, it's because you were elite at your position. 

If you're a top 10 Safety, you get a pro bowl nod, if you're an elite safety you get an all pro nod. 

It's really that simple. Folks like to tear down Adams because Macc was a moron. That's not Adams fault. Dude is probably the best talent on the team. 

All pro is voted by the press IIRC.  Adam's big mouth has had a big influence on the press and the fans' overrating his performance on the field. Hes not yet at that level. But his mouth and glorification among the press is. I hope he'll be there for real soon.   Meanwhile, you can live whatever delusion tickles you today. 

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Bruh....what? lmao. 
A dying brand? Do you know how the Chargers was able to absolutely dismantle the Ravens and that triple option offense that they ran in the playoffs? they took the linebackers off the field and replaced them with a bunch of box safeties. 
 
[/url] Adams is a strong safety...with an emphasis on "Strong". He's not a free safety. His job is to be in the box when needed, be a linebacker if needed, deal with TE's on seams when needed and create blitz pressure. 
Adams can only do what has been asked of him, and he's done a fantastic job in that regard. Of course he's not going to have more INT's if he's asked to pressure the QB. He's not more of a force in the passing game because he's not asked to be. But during the times that he is asked to be, he's an absolute shut down safety. Example:
Troy Polamalu was one of the best Strong Safeties of our time, played 12 years in the league. 
Jamal Adams has put up half the amount of Sacks that Polamalu has had in his 12 career, in just 2 seasons. 
Polamalu has had 12 QB hits in 12 seasons, Adams has 10 in 2 seasons. 
Polamalu has averaged 4.5 Tackles for loss per season, Adams is averaging 9 per season
Polamalu averaged just over 1 forced fumble per season, Adams averages 2 per season. 
Polamalu averaged 48 solo tackles per season, Adams averages 74.5 per season. 
Now, you may say "Well, the stats should look like this given that Adams plays in the box much more than Polamalu"...and you would be correct. But look at this stat. 
Coverage>
Polamalu averaged 8.9 passes defended per season. You know how many that "Always in the box" safety Adams average per season? 9 PD's per season. 
 
Adams spends so much more time in the box helping to stop the run and to create pressure, but during the times that he's asked to cover then he's having the same amount of passes defended as Troy Polamalu.
 
That right there shows that if Adams was asked to do more in coverage he would be able to handle it, but the facts are that was simply not the way he's been used. To be able to match coverage PD's with an all time great in Troy but work so much more in the box as he does, it is clear that the Adams is one of the top 3-5 Safeties in the world. 
 

Fair point about how he has been used thus far by the poor coaching staff he was with. I will admit that I am extremely excited to see what Gregg Williams has in store with Adams this year, and I hope that your right and that he can make a bigger impact in the passing game. All I’m saying is that if I am taking a safety in the top 10 of a draft they had better be excellent in both aspects of the game, and so far I’m not sold on him being “elite” in the passing game despite how fantastic he is playing close to the line.


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4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

All pro is voted by the press IIRC. 

So now being all pro is meaningless? lmao

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_All-Pro_Team

Quote

Adam's big mouth has had a big influence on the press and the fans' overrating his performance on the field. Hes not yet at that level. But his mouth and glorification among the press is. I hope he'll be there for real soon.   Meanwhile, you can live whatever delusion tickles you today. 

giphy.gif

:-)

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7 minutes ago, tkiss24 said:


Fair point about how he has been used thus far by the poor coaching staff he was with. I will admit that I am extremely excited to see what Gregg Williams has in store with Adams this year, and I hope that your right and that he can make a bigger impact in the passing game. All I’m saying is that if I am taking a safety in the top 10 of a draft they had better be excellent in both aspects of the game, and so far I’m not sold on him being “elite” in the passing game despite how fantastic he is playing close to the line.


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Yeah, but I'll be happy for as long as Adams is productive in his role. We dont have a pass rusher. Granted we have Polite, but we dont know if he's ready. Adams has become a valuable piece in that regard. Also, it's even harder to get a grasp of how Williams will use Adams given that he's now implementing the 3-4, something different than what he used in Cleveland. Im not sure if he can simply use Adams the way he used Jabril Peppers. But to be fair, Peppers is a much more limited player in comparison to Adams. he's a solid player, but he's no Jamal Adams. 

We'll see. If Polite can contribute and we allow Adams to roam alittle bit more, our pass defense will be that much better. Jamal Adams did alot of the dirty work and clean clean up for this team and it was good to seem him get all pro honors for that because alot of times if you dont have 8 INT's and a couple pick 6's suddenly you're just an average safety. There is nothing average about this dude.

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14 minutes ago, Dcat said:

All pro is voted by the press IIRC.  Adam's big mouth has had a big influence on the press and the fans' overrating his performance on the field. Hes not yet at that level. But his mouth and glorification among the press is. I hope he'll be there for real soon.   Meanwhile, you can live whatever delusion tickles you today. 

Players and execs voted him all pro for The Sporting News, He was voted 2nd team by the press.

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3 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I know Ryan Tannehill.

Ryan Tannehill was a friend of mine.

Ryan Tannehill is no Sam Darnold.  

If you go by his stats in his rookie year, you're 100% correct. We all know Darnold was ranked near the bottom of the starting QB's last year. Darnold isn't as good as a healthy Tannehill... yet.

But hopefully he can build off of those 3 good games he had before the clunker to end the season vs the Patriots. With a year of experience, an offensive minded HC, and some really good skill players around him this year, Darnold should continue to improve. If he does, and he shows the ability most of us think he has, we'll have our franchise QB.

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imo... Being selected an All Pro has Always been considered a higher achievement than being selected to the Pro Bowl.

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2 minutes ago, jetsons said:

imo... Being selected an All Pro has Always been considered a higher achievement than being selected to the Pro Bowl.

That’s not opinion. It’s fact. 

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2 hours ago, Dcat said:

Any other GM desperate for a franchise QB for his QB-strapped team would have drafted Watson or Mahomes at 6 instead of a safety. Mac was too worried about pre draft rankings and all. He was a gutless coward and set the team back. At least he began the recovery by awkwardly landing Darnold (which just as easily could have been Josh Allen). Nothing against Adams, who is a nice safety, but please.... no comparison to the importance of the QB position. Maccagnan was a boob passing over QB.

And then had to trade away 3 seconds to fix his stupidity. Fukk him. 

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On 5/21/2019 at 9:10 AM, Philc1 said:

Yes for about 5 minutes until he gets injured

Dude misses some time in his 2nd year after having a great rookie year... Sure let's make injury jokes.... 

You guys need some new material... That is just weak sauce.

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

So now being all pro is meaningless? lmao

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_All-Pro_Team

Pro bowl does not guarantee that you are top 5.  Sorry.  You want him to be.  I get that.  I'm hoping he makes it there this year.  Pro Bowl is a vote by the press and as we all know, there's no controlling who or why a reporter votes for a player.  Addams big mouth likely had influence.  It's just plain naive to dismiss the idea that his big mouth didn't have influence.  His poor pass coverage is his achilles heel.  One INT in 2 years?  ouch. Look, Adams had good tackle numbers last year.  Really good.  Now if he can just up his coverage ability beyond the present "poor-to-mediocre" level, it could propel Adams to elite status.  But as of yet, his coverage is bad and he is not elite.   So we'll just agree to disagree on Adams status/ranking among NFL safeties.  

No way around it. He's good but not where we want him yet as far as coverage.  Lets see what we can say next spring about him.  No way anyone is changing his opinion until we see his 3rd year performance.

 

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22 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Pro bowl does not guarantee that you are top 5.  Sorry.  You want him to be.  I get that.  I'm hoping he makes it there this year.  Pro Bowl is a vote by the press and as we all know, there's no controlling who or why a reporter votes for a player.  Addams big mouth likely had influence.  It's just plain naive to dismiss the idea that his big mouth didn't have influence.  Look, Adams had good tackle numbers last year.  Really good.  Now if he can just up his coverage ability beyond the present "poor-to-mediocre" level, it could propel Adams to elite status.  But as of yet, his coverage is bad and he is not elite.   So we'll just agree to disagree on Adams status/ranking among NFL safeties.  

No way around it. He's good but not where we want him yet as far as coverage.  Lets see what we can say next spring about him.  No way anyone is changing his opinion until we see his 3rd year performance.

 

This is a poor argument, but I'll tell you what. Lets do this. I said that Jamal Adams was a top 3 to top 5 Safety in the league, and you disagree with that because you simply say he isnt, and you wont accept All pro votes from the press. 

If im correct I think in June begins the "Top 100 players of 2019"...as voted on by the players. Will you accept that vote, or will Adams big mouth influence the players? Or are the players picks not worthy of consideration? 

You let me know, and if the top 100 players works for you, then in June we'll wait and see how the Safety rankings fall. If Adams is in the top 5 im correct, if he's 6 or lower you'll be correct. 

Deal? 

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7 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

He played two seasons and was hurt in one. Talk about over reaction on the injured all the time narrative

I think he was hurt in both. Late in his rookie season?

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47 minutes ago, jack48 said:

I think he was hurt in both. Late in his rookie season?

Started all 16 games in 2017.

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6 hours ago, tkiss24 said:


Fair point about how he has been used thus far by the poor coaching staff he was with. I will admit that I am extremely excited to see what Gregg Williams has in store with Adams this year, and I hope that your right and that he can make a bigger impact in the passing game. All I’m saying is that if I am taking a safety in the top 10 of a draft they had better be excellent in both aspects of the game, and so far I’m not sold on him being “elite” in the passing game despite how fantastic he is playing close to the line.


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I have my fingers crossed that under the reign of Williams, Jamal Adams and Trumaine Johnson become dominating (once again for Johnson under Williams).  

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8 hours ago, Dcat said:

Any other GM desperate for a franchise QB for his QB-strapped team would have drafted Watson or Mahomes at 6 instead of a safety. Mac was too worried about pre draft rankings and all. He was a gutless coward and set the team back. At least he began the recovery by awkwardly landing Darnold (which just as easily could have been Josh Allen). Nothing against Adams, who is a nice safety, but please.... no comparison to the importance of the QB position. Maccagnan was a boob passing over QB.

Also, the moronic drone DOUBLED DOWN on the gutless move by NOT rolling with Hackenberg or Petty.  I don’t care how horrific Hackenberg is, you made the pick, now play him.  What actually was the use bringing McCown in on an already feeble roster (other than a quest for a job saving excuse, f the team), so at best he can win 5 games and cost you draft position?

OWN your QB draft picks.  And if you don’t want to own them by starting them, than at least acknowledge that both don’t belong in the NFL to begin with by drafting Mahomes at 6.  But No, Maccagnan still kept trying to string people along by trying to pretend Hackenberg had a future.

The guy was so incredibly bad at his job and easier to read than a cartoon.

But the question of how in the hell the guy was given a GMs job in the first place was recently answered.  Casserly pushed him through the back door in Florham Park while the Jet owner most likely didn’t have time for rudimentary due diligence.  The drone was about to be FIRED in Houston.....ring the bell...”the Jets have found their man” haha.

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7 hours ago, Dcat said:

All pro is voted by the press IIRC.  Adam's big mouth has had a big influence on the press and the fans' overrating his performance on the field. Hes not yet at that level. But his mouth and glorification among the press is. I hope he'll be there for real soon.   Meanwhile, you can live whatever delusion tickles you today. 

All Pro is much more prestigious than the Pro Bowl. Not even close. 

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Any other GM desperate for a franchise QB for his QB-strapped team would have drafted Watson or Mahomes at 6 instead of a safety. Mac was too worried about pre draft rankings and all. He was a gutless coward and set the team back. At least he began the recovery by awkwardly landing Darnold (which just as easily could have been Josh Allen). Nothing against Adams, who is a nice safety, but please.... no comparison to the importance of the QB position. Maccagnan was a boob passing over QB.


It was a huge miss on Macc and the scouting team. You could sense the league swirling in on Mahomes and Watson. Our guys just plain didn’t rank them with anywhere near the respect they should have and decided to play it safe. Gutless.


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4 hours ago, Dcat said:

I have my fingers crossed that under the reign of Williams, Jamal Adams and Trumaine Johnson become dominating (once again for Johnson under Williams).  

So, you're ignoring the suggestion of a friendly wager because you're afraid that the players wont vote in your favor? You're so sure that he isnt a top safety in this league though, and of course Adams big mouth is only just a factor with the press. Players would surely know the difference dont you think? 

How about taking me up on this friendly bet. I mean, who better then the players themselves to determine how good a player is. Surely they arent delusional amirite?

No goalpost moving required. We can simply sit back and see what the most credible people of all people, the players themselves, have to say on the matter. 

Let's see if "The Press" got it wrong about Adams and it's just that Adams has a big mouth. 

Put it to the test since you're so sure, or do you just have a big mouth like Adams? 

😉

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36 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

So, you're ignoring the suggestion of a friendly wager because you're afraid that the players wont vote in your favor? You're so sure that he isnt a top safety in this league though, and of course Adams big mouth is only just a factor with the press. Players would surely know the difference dont you think? 

How about taking me up on this friendly bet. I mean, who better then the players themselves to determine how good a player is. Surely they arent delusional amirite?

No goalpost moving required. We can simply sit back and see what the most credible people of all people, the players themselves, have to say on the matter. 

Let's see if "The Press" got it wrong about Adams and it's just that Adams has a big mouth. 

Put it to the test since you're so sure, or do you just have a big mouth like Adams? 

😉

I'm hoping he lives up to the billing because right now he doesn't. His pass coverage is not good.  Until it gets good, he doesnt deserve the all pro.  I believe his big mouth helped him get the votes. He has one INT in 2 years and he has a long way to go.  Again the point is that Adams was a stupid pick at the time.  I know it bothers you to no end, but that huge fact makes it worse for Adams when he fails to live up to the billing.  Lets hope for improvement under Williams.

I'm not interested in any bets with you.  A true Jets fan knows never to wager anything in relation to this team. I've rooted for this team since 1965 and have been going to games since 1967.  You on the other hand are a casual observer, with limited commitment. So, not interested.  Know this:  I want nothing more to come true than Adams live up to the hype.  I wouldn't bet on it one way or the other.  Lets see if his poor coverage improves a bit before you send him to Canton. You do realize that his mouth can't be anointed to the HOF without the rest of him there, don't you? 

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4 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Also, the moronic drone DOUBLED DOWN on the gutless move by NOT rolling with Hackenberg or Petty.  I don’t care how horrific Hackenberg is, you made the pick, now play him.  What actually was the use bringing McCown in on an already feeble roster (other than a quest for a job saving excuse, f the team), so at best he can win 5 games and cost you draft position?

OWN your QB draft picks.  And if you don’t want to own them by starting them, than at least acknowledge that both don’t belong in the NFL to begin with by drafting Mahomes at 6.  But No, Maccagnan still kept trying to string people along by trying to pretend Hackenberg had a future.

 

Totally agree, Mac made the Hackenberg pick and decided to protect his job by signing and starting McCown . Those meaningless wins  cost us three 2nd round picks to trade up to pick three, where the moron would have picked Josh Allen if the Browns and Gints didn't pass on Sam. Those three 2nd rounders could have filled out the OL and/or receiver. 

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5 hours ago, Dcat said:

I'm hoping he lives up to the billing because right now he doesn't. His pass coverage is not good.  Until it gets good, he doesnt deserve the all pro.  I believe his big mouth helped him get the votes. He has one INT in 2 years and he has a long way to go.  Again the point is that Adams was a stupid pick at the time.  I know it bothers you to no end, but that huge fact makes it worse for Adams when he fails to live up to the billing.  Lets hope for improvement under Williams.

 

Obviously he deserves to be All-Pro because the folks who have always decided determined that he did. The fans and the league determined that he was a pro bowler. 

If you "really" believed that it was just his big mouth with the press, then you would have no problem taking a friendly bet that the players would view him differently. You're essentially saying that the press has grossly overrated him because of how he speaks, yet wont put it to the test, which is why I doesnt bother me to no end. Why would something bother me that you wont even put to the test? Makes no sense. 

The point wasnt that Adams was a stupid pick at the time. That was what you were trying to make this into. You were making this a Maccagnan thing, and by doing so trashing Adams.

This was never about Macc's pick in comparison to other players on the board. This was simply about Adams production, and there's more to his job than accumulating INT's. 

Quote

I'm not interested in any bets with you.  A true Jets fan knows never to wager anything in relation to this team. I've rooted for this team since 1965 and have been going to games since 1967.  You on the other hand are a casual observer, with limited commitment. So, not interested.  Know this:  I want nothing more to come true than Adams live up to the hype.  I wouldn't bet on it one way or the other.  Lets see if his poor coverage improves a bit before you send him to Canton. You do realize that his mouth can't be anointed to the HOF without the rest of him there, don't you? 

WOOOOAH! SHOTS FIRED!!!! Who's feeling some type of way now!! lol. A filthy casual??? Okay, I'll take that. Obviously us casuals, like the press, no nothing. Clearly THE PLAYERS do though....right?????

There you go, moving the goal post for like the 5th time. Now you're talking HOF, for a 2nd year player? You're trying way to hard to hate on this dude. We get it, you wanted Mahomes or Watson. That's not his fault. 

I will counter that passive aggressiveness with this:

June is around the corner, and not only will Adams make the top 100 list (being the first Jet to make the list since 2016) but he will be among the top 3 to 5 safeties, as voted by his peers, because he's a top 3/top 5 safety in all of football. 

 

And when it happens, take note that it was a casual in your eyes that told you so, then the players proved him right. 

 

Ironic how someone can talk about another person having a big mouth but wont take even a friendly bet to back up what their own mouth says. 

I may have a limited commitment in your eyes, but I have enough commitment to bet that a Jets player was indeed a top 3 to 5 player at his position last year.

 

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15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

The bolded. Jamal Adams was a top 10 talent in that draft. His production justifies that. My point is, based on the roster at that time the position where production was needed the most was at QB. In that regard the pick was bad. 

But I disagree with anyone who says that what Jamal Adams has done in his first 2 seasons has clearly shown that he wasnt worth a top 10 pick. It's simply not true. It was clear in his first season that he had potential to be a top safety in the league, and in his 2nd year he was one of the best in the league. It would be difficult to say that there were 3 or 4 safeties in the league that had an outright better season than Jamal Adams. 

If you're talking about "production relative to position" then you certainly have a point, given that as stated, Watson and Mahomes were both available. But if you're talking about simply not being worth a top ten pick, I simply have to disagree. Jamal Adams was the only reason why the Jets defense was even watchable. 

Dude is a beast. 

Not to mention that any player's stats are going to be impacted by the quality of the unti around him. The Jets had mediocre linebackers, underperforming CB's, and a line that was decent against the run and poor against the pass. Adams will only get better as the defensive unit improves. Rising tide lifts all boats, as they say. 

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Only Jet fans argue over the value of their all pro safety (even after they've nailed their franchise QB). 

Franchise QB- ✔️

All Pro RB- ✔️

All Pro Safety- ✔️

All Pro LB- ✔️

Jamal Adams pick is water under the bridge. Macc has already been fired and all of the GMs being looked at have better resumes than Macc. Chris Johnson is changing the direction of this team toward finally taking over the AFC East for the 1st time in our sorry history. Continue bitching.

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