Tony Pauline Tidbits

[Barkus]

This is a summary from Tony Pauline over a few podcasts I’ve heard him on. We have heard most of this stuff but there are some little details I thought were interesting.

side note: Pauline is a jets fan and season ticket holder

 

Discord between Gase and Mac started almost immediately. Pauline was hearing about problems while he was at the senior bowl.

In beginning of FA Gase preferred tevin Coleman. He felt he fit his offense better than bell. Pauline heard early on in FA from Bell’s camp that jets were showing little interest in Bell. 

Gase really wanted Paradis. Paradis was actually in NY for an NFL function and and he and his agent were expecting a contract offer from the jets and there were planning  going to Florham park but Jets never even offered a contract. 

Gase wanted fells at TE because he felt he would be a good fit for his offense and the locker room. Mac said no.

Pauline said Mac philosophy was no big money for centers or TE. Positions for big money were offensive skill players and defense.

Prior to draft Mac, gase, and a team employee had dinner together to smooth things over. But things blew up again around draft time.

The Barr fiasco really hurt the jets. They missed out on other pass rushers because of that. After the Barr fiasco they really amped up pursuit of Bell against Gase wishes.

Pauline does not think Joe Douglas is done deal. Eagles will try very hard to keep him.

 

[Augustiniak]

Not much new here.  

[jeffkitref]

That’s the thing that pisses me off the most about Maccagnan...we didn’t even offer a contract for one of our biggest needs in FA...so crazy. 

[fullblast]

Quote

no big money for ... TE.

 

Quote

Positions for big money were offensive skill players...

Uh.

[LIJetsFan]

If this is mostly true (which I suspect it is) then thank the football gods we finally got rid of Mac.  Better late than never but better never late.

[Augustiniak]

Puzzling thing here is his willingness to spend such huge money on defense and continue to draft defense in premium rounds yet wont’ spend for OL as the league continues to trend offense.  And then he probably wonders why he’s called ‘old school’.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

no big money for for TE and C but ok for DL and MLB? wow that's not even old school

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

no big money for for TE and C but ok for DL and MLB? wow that's not even old school

And huge money for trumaine.  Outdated thinking in today’s nfl.  Money should go towards pass rushers and offense.

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

no big money for for TE and C but ok for DL and MLB? wow that's not even old school

Yes the statement was big money only for offensive skill positions and defense.

Meaning everyone except O-line and TE.  Based on what we've seen this is accurate.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

24 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes the statement was big money only for offensive skill positions and defense.

Meaning everyone except O-line and TE.  Based on what we've seen this is accurate.

and why every year the starting QB has missed at least one game...

[drsamuel84]

Man, reading these little tidbits coming out about Macc which makes sense by the way he's drafter and treated free agency, Darnold has to be ecstatic he's gone.  I don't understand how any GM in today's NFL with a young promising QB can think that you don't need to invest in O-Line.  Just look at the Colts as a prime example of what can happen to a QB without an O-Line.  

[Bleedin Green]

While none of this is surprising, at some point repeated reports like this will hopefully help people start to realize that the head coach supposedly being the GM-in-hiding, and ultimately responsible for countless failed roster moves, is a complete figment of their imagination, with no true merit to it whatsoever.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, Barkus said:

This is a summary from Tony Pauline over a few podcasts I’ve heard him on. We have heard most of this stuff but there are some little details I thought were interesting.

side note: Pauline is a jets fan and season ticket holder

 

Discord between Gase and Mac started almost immediately. Pauline was hearing about problems while he was at the senior bowl.

In beginning of FA Gase preferred tevin Coleman. He felt he fit his offense better than bell. Pauline heard early on in FA from Bell’s camp that jets were showing little interest in Bell. 

Gase really wanted Paradis. Paradis was actually in NY for an NFL function and and he and his agent were expecting a contract offer from the jets and there were planning  going to Florham park but Jets never even offered a contract. 

Gase wanted fells at TE because he felt he would be a good fit for his offense and the locker room. Mac said no.

Pauline said Mac philosophy was no big money for centers or TE. Positions for big money were offensive skill players and defense.

Prior to draft Mac, gase, and a team employee had dinner together to smooth things over. But things blew up again around draft time.

The Barr fiasco really hurt the jets. They missed out on other pass rushers because of that. After the Barr fiasco they really amped up pursuit of Bell against Gase wishes.

Pauline does not think Joe Douglas is done deal. Eagles will try very hard to keep him.

 

Great recap, thanks.

[Embrace the Suck]

Mac seems to have basically wanted things to magically fall into place so he could take credit or never have to claim responsibility when they didn't fall into place. What an inept coward he was.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes the statement was big money only for offensive skill positions and defense.

Meaning everyone except O-line and TE.  Based on what we've seen this is accurate.

That's ok if you want to use that philosophy - but you really need to be able to draft those positions well.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

If this is mostly true (which I suspect it is) then thank the football gods we finally got rid of Mac.  Better late than never but better never late.

I agree. It is nice to have a theory, no big money for OLine. But then your draft strategy would have to support that. Take Oline heavy in late rounds.

Instead he paid DLine a lot of money and kept drafting them as well. Makes no sense.

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

I agree. It is nice to have a theory, no big money for OLine. But then your draft strategy would have to support that. Take Oline heavy in late rounds.

Instead he paid DLine a lot of money and kept drafting them as well. Makes no sense.

This is why  some of us were saying that he had zero idea how to construct a roster.  A lot of his moves made no sense.  It’s not like he was even paying and drafting edge rushers either, he was doing this with interior defensive linemen, which makes this even worse.   

It was obvious he was in way over his head, poor drafts, poor roster construction philosophy and poor negotiating skills.  

[isired]

While none of this is surprising, at some point repeated reports like this will hopefully help people start to realize that the head coach supposedly being the GM-in-hiding, and ultimately responsible for countless failed roster moves, is a complete figment of their imagination, with no true merit to it whatsoever.

Don't kid yourself. For a guy that 'never wanted the job' he's been busy in his 5 days as GM:
- Traded Darron Lee for a 6th*
- Cut 2017 5th round draft pick TE Jordan Leggett
- Signed former Dolphins (under Gase) P Matt Darr
- Fired scout Bill Dekraker

* everything I've heard from NFL people say the default in this deal should have been conditional on how many games Lee starts. One former NFL FO guy (Mark Domenik) said he was shocked it was a straight 6th, should have easily been a conditional 5th at minimum. Others echoed that sentiment.

I'm not saying these were all unnecessary moves, Leggett certainly looked like a solid bet for the next 2017 Jets draft bust. I don't know anything about Darr. Regarding Bill Dekraker, if you don't want to have control I think you let the incoming GM figure out who he wants and doesn't want on his scouting staff. This guy was a college scout, no harm done leaving him there for a week or even 2 while you hire your GM.

[dcJet]

The only thing new to me is the Paradis info.

Last I heard, Paradis and his agent had no interest in NY and just wanted to shop offers to less urban teams.

Was Paridis really considering the Jets?

[bitonti]

The Gase loves Matt Paradis thing sounds like a story 

Adam Gase likes large cheap linemen. Jesse Davis is like his perfect find (look him up if you have to)

Kelechi Osemele is large. Tom Compton is large

Matt Paradis is an undersized zone center coming off of a broken leg 

this story was designed by someone in Gase PR to appeal to an OL hungry fan base but it's free, unlike paying Matt Paradis 

 

also FWIW anyone who thinks Tevin Coleman is better RB option than Leveon Bell might actually have mental illness. 

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The Gase loves Matt Paradis thing sounds like a story 

Adam Gase likes large cheap linemen. Jesse Davis is like his perfect find (look him up if you have to)

Kelechi Osemele is large. Tom Compton is large

Matt Paradis is an undersized zone center coming off of a broken leg 

this story was designed by someone in Gase PR to appeal to an OL hungry fan base but it's free, unlike paying Matt Paradis 

 

also FWIW anyone who thinks Tevin Coleman is better RB option than Leveon Bell might actually have mental illness. 

That last line is what I was thinking too.  I may have been sorta against Bell for cost and motivation concerns, but he is clearly a very good player when he plays.  Would we be better with Coleman/Paradis/Fells vs. Bell/Harrison/Wesco?  Hard to say yes to that tbqh.

And that presuming the Paradis story isn't just spin, which I'm not convinced is the case.

[Peace Frog]

9 minutes ago, dcJet said:

The only thing new to me is the Paradis info.

Last I heard, Paradis and his agent had no interest in NY and just wanted to shop offers to less urban teams.

Was Paridis really considering the Jets?

That’s what I remember hearing. 

That he wanted nothing to do with the big city and was looking for southern country living. 

But who knows the real story. 

[tuffhand]

12 minutes ago, dcJet said:

The only thing new to me is the Paradis info.

Last I heard, Paradis and his agent had no interest in NY and just wanted to shop offers to less urban teams.

Was Paridis really considering the Jets?

And wasn't there concern about Paradis physically?

[section314]

11 minutes ago, tuffhand said:

And wasn't there concern about Paradis physically?

Believe that's why Denver let him go.

[Integrity28]

3 hours ago, Barkus said:

Pauline said Mac philosophy was no big money for centers or TE. Positions for big money were offensive skill players and defense.

We had a GM that didn’t notice the entire NFL shifting to the exploitation of the middle of the field 10 years ago. Awesome.

Also safety is worth a top 10, but Center is where you pinch pennies? 

[Integrity28]

3 hours ago, Barkus said:

e Barr fiasco really hurt the jets. They missed out on other pass rushers because of that. After the Barr fiasco they really amped up pursuit of Bell against Gase wishes

Bell was signed to save face. Similar to trading up after losing Cousins.

Transparent incompetence.

[Bleedin Green]

56 minutes ago, isired said:

 

Don't kid yourself. For a guy that 'never wanted the job' he's been busy in his 5 days as GM:
- Traded Darron Lee for a 6th*
- Cut 2017 5th round draft pick TE Jordan Leggett
- Signed former Dolphins (under Gase) P Matt Darr
- Fired scout Bill Dekraker

* everything I've heard from NFL people say the default in this deal should have been conditional on how many games Lee starts. One former NFL FO guy (Mark Domenik) said he was shocked it was a straight 6th, should have easily been a conditional 5th at minimum. Others echoed that sentiment.

I'm not saying these were all unnecessary moves, Leggett certainly looked like a solid bet for the next 2017 Jets draft bust. I don't know anything about Darr. Regarding Bill Dekraker, if you don't want to have control I think you let the incoming GM figure out who he wants and doesn't want on his scouting staff. This guy was a college scout, no harm done leaving him there for a week or even 2 while you hire your GM.

Ok, but Gase is currently the interim GM, so these decisions are in fact his, which has nothing to do with my point of the endless amount of fabrication related to many of the past full-time GMs not really doing anything, while the head coaches at the time were supposedly to blame/credit for all of it.

In Maccagnan's case, over the past few months he's now been repeatedly cited as ignoring both Bowles and Gase, which is certainly his prerogative if he doesn't agree with them, but is in great contrast to the excuse-making some were throwing around here back in January when Bowles was fired and Mac retained.  The same baseless claims were similarly made repeatedly for both Idzik and Tanny before him and, much in the same way, weren't true then either.

[isired]

 

 

 

 

Ok, but Gase is currently the interim GM, so these decisions are in fact his, which has nothing to do with my point of the endless amount of fabrication related to many of the past full-time GMs not really doing anything, while the head coaches at the time were supposedly to blame/credit for all of it. In Maccagnan's case, over the past few months he's now been repeatedly cited as ignoring both Bowles and Gase, which is certainly his prerogative if he doesn't agree with them, but is in great contrast to the excuse-making some were throwing around here back in January when Bowles was fired and Mac retained.  The same baseless claims were similarly made repeatedly for both Idzik and Tanny before him and, much in the same way, weren't true then either.

 

No, that's insane. Not communicating with the CS regarding their plans and what they need in order to be successful should be a fireable offense. The guy should have (and likely would have) been fired 4 years ago if that was true.  

 

BTW, that info was cited by Mehta and repeated, often with a 'I'm not accusing anyone of making things up, but..."

 

I'm not defending Macc, his draft record outside of guys at the top of round 1 that fell in his lap merits firing alone, and it should have happened with Bowles. But I don't want Gase to have anything other than coaches input on personnel. I want him to focus on developing our QB and running the Offense.

 

 

 

[Bleedin Green]

4 minutes ago, isired said:

 

No, that's insane. Not communicating with the CS regarding their plans and what they need in order to be successful should be a fireable offense. The guy should have (and likely would have) been fired 4 years ago if that was true.

BTW, that info was cited by Mehta and repeated, often with a 'I'm not accusing anyone of making things up, but..."

What exactly is the point you think you're making here?  I have been adamant that Maccagnan should have been fired for quite some time, but that is because of his own personal incompetence, not for him choosing not to be the puppet of the coaches, as others around here baselessly claimed he was, and continually have reports coming up that completely contradict that.  He did his own job and failed at it, it's as simple as that.

[Bowles Movement]

4 hours ago, Barkus said:

This is a summary from Tony Pauline over a few podcasts I’ve heard him on. We have heard most of this stuff but there are some little details I thought were interesting.

side note: Pauline is a jets fan and season ticket holder

 

Discord between Gase and Mac started almost immediately. Pauline was hearing about problems while he was at the senior bowl.

In beginning of FA Gase preferred tevin Coleman. He felt he fit his offense better than bell. Pauline heard early on in FA from Bell’s camp that jets were showing little interest in Bell. 

Gase really wanted Paradis. Paradis was actually in NY for an NFL function and and he and his agent were expecting a contract offer from the jets and there were planning  going to Florham park but Jets never even offered a contract. 

Gase wanted fells at TE because he felt he would be a good fit for his offense and the locker room. Mac said no.

Pauline said Mac philosophy was no big money for centers or TE. Positions for big money were offensive skill players and defense.

Prior to draft Mac, gase, and a team employee had dinner together to smooth things over. But things blew up again around draft time.

The Barr fiasco really hurt the jets. They missed out on other pass rushers because of that. After the Barr fiasco they really amped up pursuit of Bell against Gase wishes.

Pauline does not think Joe Douglas is done deal. Eagles will try very hard to keep him.

 

Meanwhile I read that Gase didnt want to spend big money on a RB or a center.  Who knows what the truth is?  Maybe Gases nose will start growing and then it will all become clear.

[HawkeyeJet]

I listened to a podcast from Tim McManus about a week ago that discussed Douglas and the way he talked it didn't sound like the Eagles would try to block Douglas and Lurie had been resigned to the fact (well before the Jets rumors) that Douglas would eventually move on to bigger and better things and had already identified internal guys as his potential replacement.

Not questioning Pauline's info, but that very well could be a plant by Camp Douglas to get more money from the 

[jack48]

4 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

Puzzling thing here is his willingness to spend such huge money on defense and continue to draft defense in premium rounds yet wont’ spend for OL as the league continues to trend offense.  And then he probably wonders why he’s called ‘old school’.

I totally hate spending a fortune on a RB.  Centers call the protections on most teams.  TEs are getting more and more important.  Macc's Free Agency for Idiots paperback is dog eared.

[Charlie Brown]

52 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

What exactly is the point you think you're making here?  I have been adamant that Maccagnan should have been fired for quite some time, but that is because of his own personal incompetence, not for him choosing not to be the puppet of the coaches, as others around here baselessly claimed he was, and continually have reports coming up that completely contradict that.  He did his own job and failed at it, it's as simple as that.

In truth; do you really think that literally speaking to Bowles about what was going to happen in the draft  would have made MacCagnan a "puppet" of Bowles?

Speaking to someone gives them power over you?

In Bowles case, Mac made dumb move after dumb move, irrationally favoring a lopsided defensive philosophy that Bowles himself was not in favor of and forced to coach and then defend in public....... JUST CRAY!!!! ...........................(And I wanted Bowles Gone!)

But I would be pissed if I was Gase too if I had that incompetent baffoon controlling my professional destiny as well.

[Bleedin Green]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

In truth; do you really think that literally speaking to Bowles about what was going to happen in the draft  would have made MacCagnan a "puppet" of Bowles?

Speaking to someone gives them power over you?

In Bowles case, Mac made dumb move after dumb move, irrationally favoring a lopsided defensive philosophy that Bowles himself was not in favor of and forced to coach and then defend in public....... JUST CRAY!!!! ...........................(And I wanted Bowles Gone!)

But I would be pissed if I was Gase too if I had that incompetent baffoon controlling my professional destiny as well.

Talk about a straw man.  No one is saying he refused to speak to anyone, but the point is simply that they were not in agreement and, ultimately, the decisions that are the responsibility of the GM were in fact always being made by the GM himself.  That's of course what makes sense, and in the real world has been the case all along.

The point simply was that, around these parts, we've had endless streams of accusations of some claiming the exact opposite, attempting to blame/credit roster moves on the head coaches for many years now.  This report is simply piling more onto the heaps of evidence to prove that to be completely untrue.  If Maccagnan were any good at his job, which he of course wasn't by any measure, him making successful choices that were not the ones the head coaches were pushing for would not be seen as a negative, and if anything would be something to give him additional credit for doing.  Instead, he turned out to simply suck and is fully responsible for that himself.

[jetstream23]

So if it was up to Adam Gase the Jets would not have Le’Veon Bell, but would have Tevin Coleman, Matt Paradis, and Daniel Fells?  It’s not difficult to see why there was friction between our GM and HC.  These are radically different approaches and perhaps Gase could sense that Macc was trying to make a big splash with Bell simply to save his job after losing out on Barr.