Gase Continues to Tweak Jets Roster, Is Leonard Williams Safe?

[#27TheDominator]

24 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Production is the only thing that matters once you're in the NFL. Paying players solely based on talent without the production is a huge mistake.

Quinnen will probably beat Leo's production from 2018 and that won't be hard to do. Especially, since all I heard leading up to the draft on this site was how he was a "generational talent". So if you trade Leo you have the same defensive line as last year except swapping Quinnen for Leo. That means you have an improved defensive line from 2018 and an extra 3rd(?) for the 2020 draft. 

Talent + coaching = production.

I'm not lining up to pay him, but as I showed you, he has produced a sh*t load more than the 2 slugs you want to use to replace him.  I would probably defer to Gregg Williams because the extra $14M isn't doing us much good.  I like draft picks, but a 3rd rounder for a guy that would start on pretty much every team in the league isn't something I would jump on, though I might take it.

[Philc1]

Just trade the overrated JAG already

[Jetsplayer21]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

And some fans will insist it was to get paid.

Not that he played under a HC who was clueless.  Who had no idea how to use his DL.  Who was completely overrated as a DC.  Whos DC was even worse, a friend to hold his hand and nothing more.

Follow that up with all the talk of Greg Williams is going to use players in the right way.  Is a real DC.  Will motivate and push his players.

So which is it really?  

Lol.. well we know your track record of predicting the future  ? I guarantee you were saying Wilkerson was going to be a yr in yr old pro bowler too lol

[Joe W. Namath]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Just trade the overrated JAG already

Hahahahahaha.  Agreed.  He had his chance.  Hes done nothing here.  Time to go.

[Alka]

The thought of trading Leo for anything less than a 1st round draft pick makes me sick.

The bottom line is that like someone else said on this board recently, Leo could start for basically any team in the NFL, so why would the Jets trade someone that they need for our team?

Outside of Quinnen, "who is better than Leo to start on the D'line?"

We assume Quinnen will be better, but until he proves it, Leo is the best D' Lineman we have on the team.

Just to be serious, there are a lot of really intelligent Jets fans out there, but the thought of getting rid of Leo for a 3rd round pick makes me question that statement.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol.. well we know your track record of predicting the future  ? I guarantee you were saying Wilkerson was going to be a yr in yr old pro bowler too lol

Your guarantee that I was saying Mo was going to be a yr in year out pro bowler is proof you arent one who should talk

 ?

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Your guarantee that I was saying Mo was going to be a yr in year out pro bowler is proof you arent one who should talk

 ?

What you were actually talking smack about a player, coach , or gm of the Jets ??I don’t believe it lol. No way you said Mo was not going to be a great player who will earn his $$$ ? 

i know you said there wasn’t a chance in hell mac would be fired next Jan, let alone in May ? but hey, nobody is always right lol

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

What you were actually talking smack about a player, coach , or gm of the Jets ??I don’t believe it lol. No way you said Mo was not going to be a great player who will earn his $$$ ? 

i know you said there wasn’t a chance in hell mac would be fired next Jan, let alone in May ? but hey, nobody is always right lol

You really aren't sure what you've said.  Don't tell me what I've said. 

We were talking about Macc getting fired because of the roster, draft etc.  Not for personal reasons.  Stop being a fool, of he wasn't a dick here would still have a job.  No one would ever predict that.  Go dick slap yourself over this one.

[Jetsplayer21]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You really aren't sure what you've said.  Don't tell me what I've said. 

We were talking about Macc getting fired because of the roster, draft etc.  Not for personal reasons.  Stop being a fool, of he wasn't a dick here would still have a job.  No one would ever predict that.  Go dick slap yourself over this one.

Lol I see I hit a nerve ?you are usually wrong, but I know you can’t stand when someone calls you out on it lol. You remind me of mike Francesca, that idiot makes stupid predictions as a sure thing also ?

[MasterChiefJets]

Why get rid of Leo now? If Williams has a place for him in his Defense, he will be here for this year at least. If he and Gase don't like what they see, I'm sure the new GM or Interim GM will make the proper move.

[greenwave81]

On 5/22/2019 at 5:13 PM, genot said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2788367-jarvis-landry-rips-dolphins-culture-begged-adam-gase-for-bigger-route-tree  Read the article. If you have a question about your role, your told to f... off. Real good way to build team chemistry. You might even get traded, if you have a legitimate question about your role.

Hmm...a player, who's had success in that coach's system, requests an increased role.  Never heard that before.

Everyone wants the 'ball'...so what?

[genot]

23 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Hmm...a player, who's had success in that coach's system, requests an increased role.  Never heard that before.

Everyone wants the 'ball'...so what?

Lol. He got rid of him. Went to the Browns, had more success.

[Thai Jet]

On 5/22/2019 at 5:57 PM, UnknownJetFan said:

I'd have no problem trading Leo for a starting Center.

We HAVE a starting Center.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol I see I hit a nerve ?you are usually wrong, but I know you can’t stand when someone calls you out on it lol. You remind me of mike Francesca, that idiot makes stupid predictions as a sure thing also ?

Lol. 

I remind you of an idiot?

Ok.  GFY

[BurnleyJet]

7 hours ago, Alka said:

The thought of trading Leo for anything less than a 1st round draft pick makes me sick.

The bottom line is that like someone else said on this board recently, Leo could start for basically any team in the NFL, so why would the Jets trade someone that they need for our team?

Outside of Quinnen, "who is better than Leo to start on the D'line?"

We assume Quinnen will be better, but until he proves it, Leo is the best D' Lineman we have on the team.

Just to be serious, there are a lot of really intelligent Jets fans out there, but the thought of getting rid of Leo for a 3rd round pick makes me question that statement.

The market sets the price, if he is so good there should be a line of teams waiting to offer a 1st for him? - He’s a glorified Run stuffer who got outplayed by Henry Anderson, I don’t think his 3-5 sacks a year are worth 14 Million per.

[varjet]

If the Jets 3-4 DL was Leo, McClendon and some mid-round draft picks, and Leo was playing well, I would be good with that.

But when you add Quinnen and Henry, that seems like too many resources applied there, and Leo’s contract is up now.   To me this is more of an odd man out thing rather than is Leo worth it.

Leo is not that different a player from Trey Flowers, at least statistically.  Just too expensive for a 2nd contract DL who oftentimes don’t work.  If I am a GM I draft DL and sign FA to short contracts, even if expensive per year.  

[Alka]

8 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

The market sets the price, if he is so good there should be a line of teams waiting to offer a 1st for him? - He’s a glorified Run stuffer who got outplayed by Henry Anderson, I don’t think his 3-5 sacks a year are worth 14 Million per.

How about we wait until we see how Quinnen and Leo play together before we write off Leo?  Quinnen will demand double teams, and playing together could possibly revitalize Leo's career.

I think it's worth the wait before we hurry up and get rid of him for a 3rd round pick.

[Jetsplayer21]

4 hours ago, varjet said:

If the Jets 3-4 DL was Leo, McClendon and some mid-round draft picks, and Leo was playing well, I would be good with that.

But when you add Quinnen and Henry, that seems like too many resources applied there, and Leo’s contract is up now.   To me this is more of an odd man out thing rather than is Leo worth it.

Leo is not that different a player from Trey Flowers, at least statistically.  Just too expensive for a 2nd contract DL who oftentimes don’t work.  If I am a GM I draft DL and sign FA to short contracts, even if expensive per year.  

Fans act like we lose Leo for nothing if we let him walk. No we get a end of 3rd round comp pick, and we take that 16 mil and buy stud OL we desperately need. Or corner. So even if we do not trade him now, it is basically a trade by letting him walk, assuming we use that $$$ on a position we actually need

[rammagen]

16 hours ago, Alka said:

The thought of trading Leo for anything less than a 1st round draft pick makes me sick.

The bottom line is that like someone else said on this board recently, Leo could start for basically any team in the NFL, so why would the Jets trade someone that they need for our team?

Outside of Quinnen, "who is better than Leo to start on the D'line?"

We assume Quinnen will be better, but until he proves it, Leo is the best D' Lineman we have on the team.

Just to be serious, there are a lot of really intelligent Jets fans out there, but the thought of getting rid of Leo for a 3rd round pick makes me question that statement.

it is pretty simple if he produces then you pay him like it if not then he walks..........

[PepPep]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:11 PM, Eaton Beaver said:

If you look at his career stats they have declined each year, Do you really want to pay him 14 million dollars? I am certain they will probably keep him, but I would be happy to get a center or a 2nd or 3rd for him.

 

Leonard Williams   #92 DE

New York Jets | Official Team Site

Height: 6-5   Weight: 302   Age: 24

Born: 6/20/1994 Bakersfield , CA

College: USC

Experience: 5th season

High School: Mainland HS [Daytona Beach,

			Tackles					Interceptions
Year	Team	G	Comb	Total	Ast	Sck	SFTY	PDef	Int	TDs	Yds	Avg	Lng
2018	New York Jets	16	42	27	15	5.0	--	2	--	--	--	0.0	--
2017	New York Jets	16	47	22	25	2.0	--	1	1	0	6	6.0	6
2016	New York Jets	16	68	36	32	7.0	--	0	--	--	--	0.0	--
2015	New York Jets	16	63	29	34	3.0	--	0	--	--	--	0.0	--
TOTAL		64	220	114	106	17.0	0	3	1	0	6	--	6

I think a lot of people, and not you personally, but a lot of fans think one or more of the following. 

1. Stats tell the whole story. A guys is not producing as many tackles or sacks or whatever and that represents his impact on the field. A guys stats go down from one year to another and that represents his impact on the field or his abilities. 

2. Leo is replaceable. You can easily find a player like Leo in Free Agency or the draft.

3. The D-line is stacked and the Jets don't need Leo.  

4. Leo is too expensive to keep long term. 

5. Leo has not lived up to where he was drafted so he was a bad draft pick from the beginning. 

To me, there may be SOME truth to these things, but the reality is that players like Leo do not come around that often. He's not a JAG that you can sign on the cheap or pick up in the 3rd round and say to yourself, well, I can probably get the same impact from this guy as I can from Leo. Leo IS an impact player, regardless of how many sacks he gets. All you have to do is watch him play. For the past 4 years that he has been a Jet it looked like he was the only one causing havoc on the opposing O-line. You can't just assume you can draft a guy like that. Certainly not in the 2nd or 3rd round. He has been in the league for 4 seasons, stayed healthy ALL OF THEM. And he' 24 years old. 24! A guy like this will cost MORE if you pursue him in FA than if you extend him. He is 100% worth keeping. QW can become a star and Henry Anderson is a good player but right now neither are as good as Leo or as reliable.      

It really amazes me how a lot of Jet fans are looking at Leo as someone (either b/c of his salary or inability to put up sacks) who is holding this team back. He is one of our best players and Gase would be a complete idiot if he traded him for a 3rd or 2nd round pick. I would even argue that trading him for a starting C would be moronic. Regardless of the need, unless said C was a young, dominant player, I would not give up Leo. Again, Leo is 24 years old and has yet to miss a game in his career. 

  

[PepPep]

On 5/22/2019 at 10:10 PM, Wonderboy said:

Leo has 17 sacks in 4 years (avg of 4 per year) with 7 in 2017 being his high. For argument sake, let’s say he gets 10 in 2019 and that’s generous considering he had only 5 last year. With 5 years into his career, somebody will give him a hefty contract, say 5 years 60 million. I just hope it won’t be us. Trade him now or let him walk and get a comp pick. 

I don't get the sack stat as being the end all representation of how good or impactful a player is. That's just not how it works. Leo is not as Edge rusher or Pass Rush specialist. Jordan Jenkins had more sacks than Leo last year, does that make him anywhere near the player Leo is? If we are talking about money, well, money doesn't win, players win. I don;t get this assumption that just because you have en extra 14mil you can sign the type of player that Leo is...or that it will PREVENT you from figuring out a way to clear cap to sign a guy you really want. It's kind of inconsequential. This notion that we have too many first round picks or too much money tied up in one position is silly to me. As long as we are strong at that position, and its an important position, does it really matter? The Jets inability to improve the O-line was not nec. b/c they couldn't AFFORD to. 

I guess I just don't get this urgency to target Leo of all players- a very good, clearly talented, YOUNG player who has stayed healthy and made an impact- as someone we need to jettison for financial reasons??? Or to get a 2nd or 3rd rounder??? How about we clear cap in other ways when the time comes??? All this talk of trading Leo RIGHT NOW is asnine, IMHO. Do not get rid of one of your best players, period.     

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

How about we wait until we see how Quinnen and Leo play together before we write off Leo?  Quinnen will demand double teams, and playing together could possibly revitalize Leo's career.

I think it's worth the wait before we hurry up and get rid of him for a 3rd round pick.

I’ve watched him since he was a rookie. He’s a good solider, and a nice guy. He’s a solid but unspectacular player.

What he’s not, is worth the 6th overall pick. A disruptor or game changer. Often we Jets fans over rate our better players, and underrate our not so good players.

Leo has never lived up to the lofty heights,  and fails to beat double teams, and was slacking off at the back end of the year.

Leonard Williams being carried by Quinnen Williams, does not make him good. He’s not worth 14 mill per or the silly amounts he’s going to ask for in free agency next year.

Mo Wilkerson before he got paid blows Leonard Williams out of the water in stats and performance, and he wasn’t worth the money.

 

[Ex-Rex]

On 5/22/2019 at 5:25 PM, tkiss24 said:

Shouldn’t be. I’m actually frightened that this year we will get like 10-12 sacks out of him, give him a long term deal then get 8-10 sacks over the next 5 years


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My fear exactly. If he should come up with 10-12 sacks this season it would be a mirror like look into Muhammad Wilkerson and I think the parallel is exactly right. I would let Lazy Leo test the free agent waters and wish him good luck being lazy elsewhere. Can't trust a guy who turns it on in a contract year. We saw that with Revis and Wilkerson so like the Who says "Won't get fooled again."

[tkiss24]

My fear exactly. If he should come up with 10-12 sacks this season it would be a mirror like look into Muhammad Wilkerson and I think the parallel is exactly right. I would let Lazy Leo test the free agent waters and wish him good luck being lazy elsewhere. Can't trust a guy who turns it on in a contract year. We saw that with Revis and Wilkerson so like the Who says "Won't get fooled again."

This is the Jets, a veritable “ship of fools” and it will happen again and again


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[56mehl56]

26 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

I’ve watched him since he was a rookie. He’s a good solider, and a nice guy. He’s a solid but unspectacular player.

What he’s not, is worth the 6th overall pick. A disruptor or game changer. Often we Jets fans over rate our better players, and underrate our not so good players.

Leo has never lived up to the lofty heights,  and fails to beat double teams, and was slacking off at the back end of the year.

Leonard Williams being carried by Quinnen Williams, does not make him good. He’s not worth 14 mill per or the silly amounts he’s going to ask for in free agency next year.

Mo Wilkerson before he got paid blows Leonard Williams out of the water in stats and performance, and he wasn’t worth the money.

 

I say let's see how Greg Williams utilizes, empowers or motivates Leo before we make bold brush statements about his worth.

Sometimes guys get caught up in the wrong systems -its obvious Leo was not a fit for Bowles schemes .

[Philc1]

19 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Hahahahahaha.  Agreed.  He had his chance.  Hes done nothing here.  Time to go.

He’s a glorified Devito.  Get a 2nd for him and move on

[Philc1]

19 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I say let's see how Greg Williams utilizes, empowers or motivates Leo before we make bold brush statements about his worth.

Sometimes guys get caught up in the wrong systems -its obvious Leo was not a fit for Bowles schemes .

We have Quinnen and Henry Anderson who are both better

[56mehl56]

7 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

We have Quinnen and Henry Anderson who are both better

Anderson is a guy who emphasizes my point about not fitting the system in Indy. Q hasn;t played an NFL snap yet - we'll see. 

I do expect this to be a much better year for guys like Leo and Tru . I trust Greg Williams will put these guys in positions to make plays as opposed to being forced to play in Bowles/Rodgers rigid system. Williams may never have had the best D's statistically but from my perspective his players played hard for him - I can't say that about the Jets D the last 4 seasons with the exception of a few players. 

[Joe W. Namath]

39 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

My fear exactly. If he should come up with 10-12 sacks this season it would be a mirror like look into Muhammad Wilkerson and I think the parallel is exactly right. I would let Lazy Leo test the free agent waters and wish him good luck being lazy elsewhere. Can't trust a guy who turns it on in a contract year. We saw that with Revis and Wilkerson so like the Who says "Won't get fooled again."

You wont have to worry about that.  He doesnt have the talent or ability to get 12 sacks.  He is what he is.  A JAG.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

in other news, Tampa just agreed to pay Suh 9.25 mil for one year - LOL

[BurnleyJet]

56 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I say let's see how Greg Williams utilizes, empowers or motivates Leo before we make bold brush statements about his worth.

Sometimes guys get caught up in the wrong systems -its obvious Leo was not a fit for Bowles schemes .

It's not really bold, we've seen him play for the last 4 years. Sure he's not been a the greatest scheme, but does that mean, that it's the schemes fault, or can he not function on his own merits? - I'm sure Arron Donald would have been Arron Donald despite of who is Defensive coordinator is/was?

I'm not keen on paying 300Ibs not disruptive 3-4 DE's edge rusher money for 3-5 sacks a year. How many times do we have to do this?

Mo Wilkerson

Sheldon Richardson

Leonard Williams

Quinnen Williams

All since what 2011? - Have we not learned, no wonder our Offence stinks, Williams has 17 Career sacks in 4 years. Donald had 20.5 just last year.

I'd trade him for the 15th rated Tackle in the NFL in a heartbeat!

 

 

[rammagen]

3 hours ago, PepPep said:

I think a lot of people, and not you personally, but a lot of fans think one or more of the following. 

1. Stats tell the whole story. A guys is not producing as many tackles or sacks or whatever and that represents his impact on the field. A guys stats go down from one year to another and that represents his impact on the field or his abilities. 

2. Leo is replaceable. You can easily find a player like Leo in Free Agency or the draft.

3. The D-line is stacked and the Jets don't need Leo.  

4. Leo is too expensive to keep long term. 

5. Leo has not lived up to where he was drafted so he was a bad draft pick from the beginning. 

To me, there may be SOME truth to these things, but the reality is that players like Leo do not come around that often. He's not a JAG that you can sign on the cheap or pick up in the 3rd round and say to yourself, well, I can probably get the same impact from this guy as I can from Leo. Leo IS an impact player, regardless of how many sacks he gets. All you have to do is watch him play. For the past 4 years that he has been a Jet it looked like he was the only one causing havoc on the opposing O-line. You can't just assume you can draft a guy like that. Certainly not in the 2nd or 3rd round. He has been in the league for 4 seasons, stayed healthy ALL OF THEM. And he' 24 years old. 24! A guy like this will cost MORE if you pursue him in FA than if you extend him. He is 100% worth keeping. QW can become a star and Henry Anderson is a good player but right now neither are as good as Leo or as reliable.      

It really amazes me how a lot of Jet fans are looking at Leo as someone (either b/c of his salary or inability to put up sacks) who is holding this team back. He is one of our best players and Gase would be a complete idiot if he traded him for a 3rd or 2nd round pick. I would even argue that trading him for a starting C would be moronic. Regardless of the need, unless said C was a young, dominant player, I would not give up Leo. Again, Leo is 24 years old and has yet to miss a game in his career. 

  

I agree I think a good reason why the other linemen look well and produce sacks is because Leo is commanding so much attention, let's see what happens with Q and Leo together. Someone will explode and it will partially be because the other player is commanding double teams. 

I still think the jets should go to a 4/3 but we don't have the right personnel for it, Leo and q on the inside but that leaves us without ends, I think our linebackers can make the switch to a 4/3 though

[Wonderboy]

On 5/24/2019 at 10:39 AM, PepPep said:

I don't get the sack stat as being the end all representation of how good or impactful a player is. That's just not how it works. Leo is not as Edge rusher or Pass Rush specialist. Jordan Jenkins had more sacks than Leo last year, does that make him anywhere near the player Leo is? If we are talking about money, well, money doesn't win, players win. I don;t get this assumption that just because you have en extra 14mil you can sign the type of player that Leo is...or that it will PREVENT you from figuring out a way to clear cap to sign a guy you really want. It's kind of inconsequential. This notion that we have too many first round picks or too much money tied up in one position is silly to me. As long as we are strong at that position, and its an important position, does it really matter? The Jets inability to improve the O-line was not nec. b/c they couldn't AFFORD to. 

I guess I just don't get this urgency to target Leo of all players- a very good, clearly talented, YOUNG player who has stayed healthy and made an impact- as someone we need to jettison for financial reasons??? Or to get a 2nd or 3rd rounder??? How about we clear cap in other ways when the time comes??? All this talk of trading Leo RIGHT NOW is asnine, IMHO. Do not get rid of one of your best players, period.     

Leo big cat plays like a kitten.  When he came out he was slated as the ‘best player’ in the draft yet fell to 6. He probably would have fallen further down if not for Mac taking him. He is NOT an elite DL in the mold of the Rams Donald.  He’s decent but that grade doesn’t warrant a huge extended contract. It ain’t gonna happen.  If there’s one thing that’s quite apparent, Gase is not settling for mediocre to average players like Macc has. The money they’d spend Leo could be spent elsewhere. Yes like on the OL which I’m sure Gase and the new GM will make a priority in 2020 or begin revamping it even this season. Granting Leo  a huge contract based on being a ‘good’ player would be Macc-like. But ohhhh he’s history!

[Hael]

On 5/24/2019 at 2:06 PM, rammagen said:

I agree I think a good reason why the other linemen look well and produce sacks is because Leo is commanding so much attention, let's see what happens with Q and Leo together. Someone will explode and it will partially be because the other player is commanding double teams. 

I still think the jets should go to a 4/3 but we don't have the right personnel for it, Leo and q on the inside but that leaves us without ends, I think our linebackers can make the switch to a 4/3 though

Leo was doubled less than Anderson actually and was doubled at a rate that wasn’t particularly high for his position, or for his status as a team’s best lineman.  

PFF has him as the 30th best interior lineman last year and if I recall he was 24th the year before.  That’s not bad, and it is valuable to have an above average starting caliber player with a lot of upside.  Still, he will be expensive and it’s unclear what his real price point should be.  It’s also clear that there are much better quality price options in the NFL.  Look no further than Anderson.

[bealeb319]

Leo big cat plays like a kitten.  When he came out he was slated as the ‘best player’ in the draft yet fell to 6. He probably would have fallen further down if not for Mac taking him. He is NOT an elite DL in the mold of the Rams Donald.  He’s decent but that grade doesn’t warrant a huge extended contract. It ain’t gonna happen.  If there’s one thing that’s quite apparent, Gase is not settling for mediocre to average players like Macc has. The money they’d spend Leo could be spent elsewhere. Yes like on the OL which I’m sure Gase and the new GM will make a priority in 2020 or begin revamping it even this season. Granting Leo  a huge contract based on being a ‘good’ player would be Macc-like. But ohhhh he’s history!

Leo big cat plays like a kitten.  When he came out he was slated as the ‘best player’ in the draft yet fell to 6. He probably would have fallen further down if not for Mac taking him. He is NOT an elite DL in the mold of the Rams Donald.  He’s decent but that grade doesn’t warrant a huge extended contract. It ain’t gonna happen.  If there’s one thing that’s quite apparent, Gase is not settling for mediocre to average players like Macc has. The money they’d spend Leo could be spent elsewhere. Yes like on the OL which I’m sure Gase and the new GM will make a priority in 2020 or begin revamping it even this season. Granting Leo  a huge contract based on being a ‘good’ player would be Macc-like. But ohhhh he’s history!

1) you really think he would have fallen further than the sixth pick if we passed on him with the sixth pick?

2) the gase comment, gase traded away his good players in Miami to settle for mediocre ones. Guys like Jay ajayi and Jarvis Landry who were the heartbeat of the dolphins offense got traded away for next to nothing and left the team with no talent to fill the holes.

3) who would we spend the money on in free agency? Who will be available? Someone else's players who aren't worth the money to be signed by their own teams?



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