My Thoughts on Leonard WIlliams

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

Lol whut?

Thomas spent more time at the dentist his first four years than in the backfield.

Not sure you saw him play.  

Leo has been far the superior player. 

And it’s not even close. 

You’re incredibly overrating Williams.  

If it were up to me NEITHER would have ever been a Jet.

[GreenFish]

How does everyone know how much Leo is looking for? Was there a report that came out that I missed?

[Nixhead]

Leo is a solid player. Leo will be a Tampa Bay Buccaneer next year! Close to his home town. We all know who their D coordinator is. Leo is not a disappointment. He is what he is and next year he will be a Buc.

[Dcat]

7 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

I think you missed Williams quote “I don’t want to play for the Jets if they fire Todd Bowles”.

He’s going to love playing for Gregg Williams haha.  The antithesis of Substitute School Teacher Bowles.

I don’t think ANY DT outside of Aaron Donald deserves some massive 2nd contract, and Williams is so far out of Donald’s league he can’t see him.

That quote of his alone makes me want them to trade him, dollars second.  Just not being close to worth it. 

that quote was during the wait for Bowles to get the axe.  He was showing loyalty like every player should.  Sorry, but not a valid point of criticism.  

[Joe W. Namath]

2 hours ago, Nixhead said:

Leo is a solid player. Leo will be a Tampa Bay Buccaneer next year! Close to his home town. We all know who their D coordinator is. Leo is not a disappointment. He is what he is and next year he will be a Buc.

Thank goodness!!!!!

[bla bla bla]

10 hours ago, Rsherman28 said:

I agree with wanting Leo to have better stats. It has been disappointing if you look at only the sacks, which is a valid point. But Leo is so much more.

If you watch the games last year, he might not blast the box score in game changing stats likes sacks, but he is an absolute beast. With no pass rush from his teammates off  the edge or inside, he was doubled a lot and still bull rushes and gets QB hits and tackles for loss. He can play every position on the line on every down.

I see this year being more like his his pro bowl year in 2016 when he was lined up with Mo and Sheldon. Pairing him with Q.Williams and company will be fun to watch. 

- Let's evaluate his worth of 14 million we pay him this year after the year, hard to say his value of 14 million if he hasn't even played.

- Leo is not getting shopped for a 3rd...

- If we are in the business of handed Leo a tag deal, would mean he preformed well in his contract year. I would absolutely tag him with the hopes of getting a deal done or signing and trading  

 

I should have added an extra bullet point because I actually address the pressures in the video. Leo ranked in about the 10-15 range last season being double teamed on 17.4% of his pass rushes. 

I also don't think he is being shipped for a 3rd, I think that would just be the realistic trade compensation we'd get from moving a 3-4 DE in the final year of his deal, who in all likelihood would be a 1 year rental and want to test FA.

For me to justify either of those tags I'd probably need hear some type of game plan for WR, LT and RT. With roughly $50M to spend and the Jets holding 3 of the top 15 DE contracts (3-4 DE), it would lead me to believe we may not want to extend Leo especially to the tune of $18M, but it would be a fantastic problem to have if he produces.

[bla bla bla]

10 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Idk if you people are trolling, crazy, stupid or bias. Williams is a decent player. He has been above average on the field has been a good leader and locker room guy and has stayed out of trouble off the field. The guy is not elite and was not a great pick at 6 in hindsight but he is a good player. We should at least see what we can get out of him this year and see what he will demand in a contract because if he doesnt want top dollar and would settle for pay that matches his production then he is worth signing. You people who want to trade him away for a third rounder realize that we would just be spending another first round pick to replace him right?

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Not sure if this was directed at me or not but I completely agree with you, bullet points don't go into the details like the video.

[bla bla bla]

10 hours ago, Pac said:

I'd consider a first since we drafted Q.

A 3rd or 4th??  Gtfoh.

Exactly, not worth trading for what we'd likely be offered. Id take a 1 or a 2 all day for Leo anything less than that and I hold on to him for a year and hope he plays out of his mind.

[bla bla bla]

6 hours ago, GreenFish said:

How does everyone know how much Leo is looking for? Was there a report that came out they I missed?

I'd love to let him test FA next off season and give us a chance to match his offer but I'd have to imagine there is some team flush with cap that is willing to spend more money on Leo than our team should given our recent financial commitments to the position. 

[bealeb319]

Not sure if this was directed at me or not but I completely agree with you, bullet points don't go into the details like the video.

Was not directed at anyone specifically more for the comments about trading him away for a 5th and replacing him with some nobody for 5m per year who no one can name

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[bealeb319]

I'd love to let him test FA next off season and give us a chance to match his offer but I'd have to imagine there is some team flush with cap that is willing to spend more money on Leo than our team should given our recent financial commitments to the position. 

The flip side to this is it we let him walk we will have to spend the cap space anyway and we will just end up over paying someone elses outcast who will get more than their play dictates. That is the nature of the beast when it comes to free agency. No one plays for free and teams are forced to spend a percentage of their money so there is no saving it.

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[Peace Frog]

9 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You’re incredibly overrating Williams.  

If it were up to me NEITHER would have ever been a Jet.

I’m not overrating anyone. 

Saying Bryan Thomas did more in his first 4 years than Williams ‘and it’s not even close’ is just silly. 

Leo has been the far superior player. 

Regardless if you’d want either as a Jet. 

[TNJet]

I'm looking for Leo to have his best season this year with help from Quinnen and Gregg. Ps I loved me some Bryan Thomas. Good dude good Jet.

[Rsherman28]

3 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I should have added an extra bullet point because I actually address the pressures in the video. Leo ranked in about the 10-15 range last season being double teamed on 17.4% of his pass rushes. 

I also don't think he is being shipped for a 3rd, I think that would just be the realistic trade compensation we'd get from moving a 3-4 DE in the final year of his deal, who in all likelihood would be a 1 year rental and want to test FA.

For me to justify either of those tags I'd probably need hear some type of game plan for WR, LT and RT. With roughly $50M to spend and the Jets holding 3 of the top 15 DE contracts (3-4 DE), it would lead me to believe we may not want to extend Leo especially to the tune of $18M, but it would be a fantastic problem to have if he produces.

I like the numbers on the double teams when broken down in ranking to other lineman like the 10 - 15 range example. Its just hard to look at the 17.4% on his pass rush and completely evaluate a player. 

What were his stats against the 17.4%, was he still able to effect the play? Is he is getting double teamed on the right and he bull rushes so the QB moves to the left of the pocket and someone else gets a sack. That play doesn't come up in the box score, but he has an effect on the play still because of the extra attention he can bring. 

 2016 pro bowl stats

• 7 sacks 
• 36 solo tackles
• 11 tackles for loss
• 19 QB Hits

2018 stats

• 5 sacks
• 27 solo tackles
• 11 tackle for loss
• 20 QB Hits

I think with all the moves in defense, bringing in CJ Mosley, Gregg Williams, Q.Williams, and potentially J.Polite, his numbers can increase in the sacks and solo tackle department. 

 

 

[Savage69]

14 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

I think you missed Williams quote “I don’t want to play for the Jets if they fire Todd Bowles”.

He’s going to love playing for Gregg Williams haha.  The antithesis of Substitute School Teacher Bowles.

I don’t think ANY DT outside of Aaron Donald deserves some massive 2nd contract, and Williams is so far out of Donald’s league he can’t see him.

That quote of his alone makes me want them to trade him, dollars second.  Just not being close to worth it. 

Yet most seem to love a player that said; “I wasn’t the biggest football fan to begin with, but if I was going to play, I didn’t want to play for what was in my mind the worst team, ever,” “I looked at the Jets as the bottom of the barrel.” 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

32 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I’m not overrating anyone. 

Saying Bryan Thomas did more in his first 4 years than Williams ‘and it’s not even close’ is just silly. 

Leo has been the far superior player. 

Regardless if you’d want either as a Jet. 

That’s the point.  Thomas didn’t do anything spectacular in his career.  He basically was “good enough” to see the field playing for the NY Jets, might not have been “good enough” on other NFL rosters.

Williams, for the money he is going to demand, should be consistently blowing up plays in the backfield, consistently applying pressure to QBs that at least result in 3rd downs turning into 4th.  I never see that.  I’m not asking for Sacks even, I realize Williams plays a different position than Thomas.  When I equate the two it’s because you really wouldn’t notice either one is gone when they’re off the team.  There are lots of Times Williams is being handled one on one by a UDFA.

I don’t see any disruption from Williams happening.  I see a Bottom 3rd Defense that invariably sees 3rd downs convert into firsts.

Williams is going to have to really turn it on this year and even then I’d say for the position he plays he’s not worth a second contract.

Point might even be moot as it is.  Williams most likely is standing at the end of Gase’s pier right now..  Think about it, if Gase had a problem paying one of the Top 3 RBs in the league a few million more a year, because he thinks he could do almost just as well going a less expensive route, there’s absolutely no way he’d pay someone with Williams body of work.

 

[Peace Frog]

10 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

That’s the point.  Thomas didn’t do anything spectacular in his career.  He basically was “good enough” to see the field playing for the NY Jets, might not have been “good enough” on other NFL rosters.

Williams, for the money he is going to demand, should be consistently blowing up plays in the backfield, consistently applying pressure to QBs that at least result in 3rd downs turning into 4th.  I never see that.  I’m not asking for Sacks even, I realize Williams plays a different position than Thomas.  When I equate the two it’s because you really wouldn’t notice either one is gone when they’re off the team.  There are lots of Times Williams is being handled one on one by a UDFA.

I don’t see any disruption from Williams happening.  I see a Bottom 3rd Defense that invariably sees 3rd downs convert into firsts.

Williams is going to have to really turn it on this year and even then I’d say for the position he plays he’s not worth a second contract.

Point might even be moot as it is.  Williams most likely is standing at the end of Gase’s pier right now..  Think about it, if Gase had a problem paying one of the Top 3 RBs in the league a few million more a year, because he thinks he could do almost just as well going a less expensive route, there’s absolutely no way he’d pay someone with Williams body of work.

 

I’m not debating whether Williams deserves the money or not. 

Williams has been a much much better player than Thomas his first 4 years. 

 

[bitonti]

the Jets abused Leonard WIlliams last year played him 300 snaps too many 

im going on record Leo will break out this year and the reason is QW and actually having depth along the front 7. They might even be able to have some kind of rotation  

Leonard Williams isn't Bryan Thomas

he's James Farrior (8 overall) 

and like Farrior it will be a mistake when they let him go 

[Peace Frog]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Jets abused Leonard WIlliams last year played him 300 snaps too many 

im going on record Leo will break out this year and the reason is QW and actually having depth along the front 7. They might even be able to have some kind of rotation  

Leonard Williams isn't Bryan Thomas

he's James Farrior (8 overall) 

and like Farrior it will be a mistake when they let him go 

Bryan Thomas is Nate Shepard, a guy over drafted by 2 rounds at least.

Thomas was a good dude but a jag as a player and never should have been drafted in the first round. 

Plus he had those issues with his teeth where he couldn’t eat, had awful nutrition and that negatively impacted  his play early on. 

[bealeb319]

the Jets abused Leonard WIlliams last year played him 300 snaps too many 
im going on record Leo will break out this year and the reason is QW and actually having depth along the front 7. They might even be able to have some kind of rotation  
Leonard Williams isn't Bryan Thomas
he's James Farrior (8 overall) 
and like Farrior it will be a mistake when they let him go 

It will be especially a mistake if him and q Williams grow some chemistry and feed off Each other. If they become a good tandem this year Leo should be resigned. Offer the guy a higher rate with lower guarantees so we have an out of we need it and move on to the positions that need a dressing instead of creating more.

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[bitonti]

28 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

It will be especially a mistake if him and q Williams grow some chemistry and feed off Each other. If they become a good tandem this year Leo should be resigned. Offer the guy a higher rate with lower guarantees so we have an out of we need it and move on to the positions that need a dressing instead of creating more.

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also, the Jets are still like 30 mil under the cap 

the fans aren't used to all this spending and think they ran out of money

no... that's the money they should have been spending. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

39 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I’m not debating whether Williams deserves the money or not. 

Williams has been a much much better player than Thomas his first 4 years. 

 

I didn’t initiate the Williams/Thomas comparison.

Ok let’s end this.  Williams is the better player...but unfortunately aa per usual when arguing about anything Jets,..the bar is set very low.

Almost like the last few years...”Well at least Bowles isn’t as bad as Kotite (actually very debatable)...well at least Maccagnan isn’t as bad as Idzik (also debatable)”.

But that’s going to change now...Jets finally have a Franchise QB and an intelligent coach who will make sure he has all the tools to be one of the best in the game.

[bitonti]

30 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Bryan Thomas is Nate Shepard, a guy over drafted by 2 rounds at least.

Thomas was a good dude but a jag as a player and never should have been drafted in the first round. 

Plus he had those issues with his teeth where he couldn’t eat, had awful nutrition and that negatively impacted  his play early on. 

Bryan thomas was a legit freak at 4.47 and 6'4" - 266.  He maybe was overdrafted a little but a guy with those stats would get overdrafted in any era 

Shepard is 2 years older, and not quite as freaky

BT spent 10 years in green and was part of those AFC champ teams. He retired as a Jet, if Nathan Shepherd has the same career, Mac will look like a genius. Cause right now that pick looks awful 

[Joe W. Namath]

3 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Was not directed at anyone specifically more for the comments about trading him away for a 5th and replacing him with some nobody for 5m per year who no one can name

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Outside of jets fans, no one can name leonard williams.

[Rsherman28]

6 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Outside of jets fans, no one can name leonard williams.

lol so ? 

The ravens had the number 1 defense last year, I can name like 2 people on there defense 

[Joe W. Namath]

3 minutes ago, Rsherman28 said:

lol so ? 

The ravens had the number 1 defense last year, I can name like 2 people on there defense 

Yesz

[Creepy Lurker]

47 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Bryan Thomas is Nate Shepard, a guy over drafted by 2 rounds at least.

Thomas was a good dude but a jag as a player and never should have been drafted in the first round. 

Plus he had those issues with his teeth where he couldn’t eat, had awful nutrition and that negatively impacted  his play early on. 

Bryan Thomas is younger than Nathan Shepherd. 

[NYJ1]

I'm not denying the criticism he gets is valid. Not denying it at all. But I'd like people to think back on Bryan Thomas. Thomas was also a disappointment in the 4-3. Everyone, including myself, wanted him gone. Then all of a sudden under a different coach and approach he flourished and became a decent resign.

Williams has been a disappointment, but what if under Greg Williams he finally finds his niche? Williams will have a far superior coach to Kasey Rogers and a better supporting cast than he's ever had before.

Lets see what he can do without constantly having to take on double teams and live on the inside. A place where I've always felt he was miscast.

And of course, just like the op claims, he'll need to earn any second contract offer he gets? Just don't get blinded by him being a disappointment thus far.

[Rsherman28]

48 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

It will be especially a mistake if him and q Williams grow some chemistry and feed off Each other. If they become a good tandem this year Leo should be resigned. Offer the guy a higher rate with lower guarantees so we have an out of we need it and move on to the positions that need a dressing instead of creating more.

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Give him more money annually with lower guarantee?

Would make more sense to just make the guaranteed money in the first 3 years of the deal so we can cut him or trade if needed. Rarely a guy plays through his full contract. 

If next year both Q.Williams and Leo preform well, we can extend Leo a put his guaranteed money for the next 3 years before we have to pay Darnold 25+ a year. 

We are going to have a ton of cap again next year 

[JohnnyLV]

I would take a 2nd and possibly a conditional 3rd for Leo. He just has no role in the future of this team,. He is a JAG

[Rsherman28]

56 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I would take a 2nd and possibly a conditional 3rd for Leo. He just has no role in the future of this team,. He is a JAG

A JAG is a player like Lee or Leggett. Drafted in the first, traded for a 6th. Drafted in the 5th, cut on year 2 before camp. 

You are basically saying in the compensation that you want back for Leo, 2 picks in the top 100 of the draft (1 pick in the top 50), that he is a decent player. No one is giving that up for what you call a "JAG". If your asking for for those picks or "would take" those picks, then you are basically saying Leo is a decent player. 

Can't say he is a JAG and in the same breath say, but I want a second and third for him. 

I get it, Leo has only made 1 pro bowl and not a ton of sacks. However, he is a above average player, who if has a good year next year, should be coming into his prime with age and injury history. 

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I would take a 2nd and possibly a conditional 3rd for Leo. He just has no role in the future of this team,. He is a JAG

So I guess you've sat in on Greg Williams classroom sessions and heard him say I can't use this bum . The hatred for players based on where they were drafted in hilarious. The hate should be pointed at the DC's/HC's who couldn't find ways to better use these players. 

[BurnleyJet]

Are you willing to Pay Leonard Williams 18 mill per to remain a Jet?

[Jetster]

None of know what kind of impact QW will have on Leo. Based on all of the scouting & tape on QW, he's going to be a special player. Leo got accolades coming out of USC but nothing close to QW.

More than one guy reviewing QWs tape claimed it was the best college tape there'd seen since Aaron Donald. Even some of the quotes were exciting to hear, "like trying to block a 305lb bar of soap". 

Gregg Williams also has Copeland, Luvu, and now Polite. Plus we swapped out Lee for a 4 time All Pro MLB in Mosely. 

Leonard Williams is in a contract year. He either plays off the charts with QW or we find out Foley or Shepard are good enough to take his place with very little drop in performance of the defense because QW is a Warren Sapp clone. 

[Peace Frog]

6 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Are you willing to Pay Leonard Williams 18 mill per to remain a Jet?

Why do folks continue to ask this question NOW?

With no context. 

We don’t have to pay him now. 

And we can’t answer that question until next February. 

If he puts up 15 sacks, is one of the leaders and driving forces on a top 5 defense that goes to the playoffs, kills Brady in the meantime, and the cap goes up $30 million? 

Or of he has 1.5 sacks, the defense is abysmal and he plays lackluster. 

THAT’s when you make the decision. 

Not now.