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Bears DC Pagano sees some Ed Reed in Eddie Jackson (2017 4th rounder)

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1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

Then every GM should be fired for not drafting Brady.

Nope.  Because every GM (Including the Pats) got it wrong.  One just happened to take a flier.

Come on CPA, you're vastly smarter than that kind of weak analogy.

1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

 To me, Monday morning QB stuff is not what we should be doing. It's the NOT taking a QB when 2 quality starters were available. THAT is my beef, and in my mind, the better argument that MAC is NOT a quality GM.  Oline avoidance etc. BUT to have a HOFer picked by a team in the 4th round?  

Monday Morning QB'ing is all fans can do.  We don't get a say at the time, we can only analyze and evaluation and opine on what the organization does.

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21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Per PFF, Jackson was the # 1 Safety in the NFL last year.  Not the Prez.  Eddie Jackson. 

Was creating this dopey thread an assignment given to you by the diabolical TomShame?  Why stoop so low to curry favor with someone who considers Papa Johns and Pabst fine dining?  Have you no shame?

Perhaps it's time the JN hierarchy looked into an intervention before you're completely converted.  That's if it's not already too late.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Nope.  Because every GM (Including the Pats) got it wrong.  One just happened to take a flier.

Come on CPA, you're vastly smarter than that kind of weak analogy.

Monday Morning QB'ing is all fans can do.  We don't get a say at the time, we can only analyze and evaluation and opine on what the organization does.

I don't know any one who hates MAC more than me. BUT..I can't imagine firing a guy because he took a safety in round 1 and a BETTER safety was found by a different team, different scenario, 3 rounds later.   Not taking a QB is why he should be fired, drafting Hack, neglecting the Oline, overpaying FAT vets that were toast. 

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And I don't get fans incapable of have rational discussions of things without going full-bore homer-defensive over every thing.

Jamal Adams can be a very good Safety AND not have been worth the pick he was selected at.

We always say (rightfully so) that we cannot and should not judge a draft till after a few years have passed.

A few years have passed, and the best Safety in the NFL is a guy picked in the same class as Adams three rounds later. 

Rational people should be able to discuss this without getting all emotional and blubbery about it.

All valid points, just like it would be valid to bash the Corey Davis pick (because Juju was taken later) or the Mccaffery pick (because Kamara/Hunt were taken later). 

It's very easy to look at past drafts, find a player taken in the top 10 and then find another player of equal or greater value in a later round. The Bears took Trubisky in that same draft (instead of Mahomes or Watson).

There were 20, or so, safeties taken in that draft so the likelihood of any 1 player outperforming 19 other really talented players is not that great. Even if that players was taken in the top 10. 

OJ Howard/Njioku/Engram are all really good Tight Ends taken in the 1st round, they weren't bad picks because the Niners found Kittle in the 5th round. 

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22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No it's not.  As good as Adams is, his pick was emblematic of the routine poor decision making and improper prioritization of the organization as a whole.

Had we not scored Darnold (at the extreme cost of all those high-round picks), the Adams > Mahomes decision might have gone down in Jets History as one of the all-time worst decisions in our history.

 

Please spare us. Hindsight is great isn't it?  Adams is all pro, be happy and just move on, you'll be healthier for it.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In the same draft where we took Jamal Adams # 6 overall, the Bears found a stud Safety in Round 4, # 112 overall. 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001032071/article/bears-dc-pagano-sees-some-ed-reed-in-eddie-jackson

Bears DC Pagano sees some Ed Reed in Eddie Jackson

Expectations for Chicago Bears safety Eddie Jackson were already through the roof entering his third pro season. New defensive coordinator Chuck Pagano added even more fuel to the hype fire.

Pagano said last week that Jackson reminds him of former Ravens safety Ed Reed, who enters the Hall of Fame this year.

"From a talent standpoint? Very, very similar," Pagano said, via the Chicago Sun-Times. "Great instincts. Great range. Great ball skills. He's only three years into it. Ed has a lot more time on task, obviously. He's got a lot of the same traits. He loves football. He's a football junkie. And again, the sky's the limit for a guy like that.

"When you know the defense and you know what you're doing and then you can spend all your time figuring out the offense and being one step ahead, that's where he's got an edge on everybody. He's very similar to Reed."

Pagano coached Reed in Baltimore for four seasons. He will now help Jackson take the next step in what could be an epic career.

Jackson is coming off a dynamic second season in which he was named first-team All-Pro after compiling six interceptions, 15 passes defended, a sack and 51 tackles.

The Bears' safety has the range ideal for the modern NFL, but has plenty of strides to make before a true comparison to Reed is fair to the young player.

"He had a great year last year -- but that was then," safeties coach Sean Desai said. "He knows that. We're going to challenge him in a way that we see, and he sees, the small areas he can improve. ...

"In this league, it's about one step and one inch. If you can get him one step faster than he was last year, that could lead to more plays he can make. If you get him one inch closer, that can lead to more plays."

When Jackson suffered an injury late in the season (missing the final two games of the regular season and didn't play a snap in the playoff tilt), the Bears' back end noticeably suffered without the playmaking safety's ability to blanket the secondary. Watching Nick Foles dice up the Bears' defense late in the postseason tilt underscored Jackson's importance to Chicago's D.

If Jackson lives up to Pagano's expectation in 2019, it will go a long way in the Bears' defense repeating their dominant 2018 campaign.

 

So 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Its totally fair.  We used the 6th pick on Adams for 1 INT.  The Bears used the # 112 pick on a guy who in the same span has 8 INTs. 

And not only did Macc take Adams at 6, he took ANOTHER Safety in Round 2. 

Record since those 2 picks:  9-23. 

You also forgot that Maccagnan had to BURN 3 #2’s to trade up for what well could have been Josh Allen or Josh Rosen to try and save his sorry ass and his job, but at this point whose counting? BECAUSE OF THE 2 SAFETIES HE HAD TO HAVE......when Mahomes (AND Watson, who I didn’t want) were sitting their on a Silver Platter for the quarterback starved NY Jets at 6.

Again, for all those crying about the “circus” created by firing Maccagnan, what day was NOT a good day to Fire Maccagnan?  That’s what Houston was about to do 5 Years ago, Fire their SCOUT, when Casserly then started calling the Jets...”Have I got a GM for you”.

 

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1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

All valid points, just like it would be valid to bash the Corey Davis pick (because Juju was taken later) or the Mccaffery pick (because Kamara/Hunt were taken later). 

It's very easy to look at past drafts, find a player taken in the top 10 and then find another player of equal or greater value in a later round. The Bears took Trubisky in that same draft (instead of Mahomes or Watson).

There were 20, or so, safeties taken in that draft so the likelihood of any 1 player outperforming 19 other really talented players is not that great. Even if that players was taken in the top 10. 

OJ Howard/Njioku/Engram are all really good Tight Ends taken in the 1st round, they weren't bad picks because the Niners found Kittle in the 5th round. 

These "fans" just need to let it go.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Its totally fair.  We used the 6th pick on Adams for 1 INT.  The Bears used the # 112 pick on a guy who in the same span has 8 INTs. 

And not only did Macc take Adams at 6, he took ANOTHER Safety in Round 2. 

Record since those 2 picks:  9-23. 

IIRC, Eddie Jackson has as many TDs as every skill position player Macc ever drafted, combined 

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1 minute ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You also forgot that Maccagnan had to BURN 3 #2’s to trade up for what well could have been Josh Allen or Josh Rosen to try and save his sorry ass and his job, but at this point whose counting? BECAUSE OF THE 2 SAFETIES HE HAD TO HAVE......when Mahomes (AND Watson, who I didn’t want) were sitting their on a Silver Platter for the quarterback starved NY Jets at 6.

Again, for all those crying about the “circus” created by firing Maccagnan, what day was NOT a good day to Fire Maccagnan?  That’s what Houston was about to do 5 Years ago, Fire their SCOUT, when Casserly then started calling the Jets...”Have I got a GM for you”.

 

This!!!!!  MAC was a dumpster fire.  NOT finding a GREAT safety in the 4th round is not even in his top 10 biggest fukk ups!!!!

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In the same draft where we took Jamal Adams # 6 overall, the Bears found a stud Safety in Round 4, # 112 overall. 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001032071/article/bears-dc-pagano-sees-some-ed-reed-in-eddie-jackson

Bears DC Pagano sees some Ed Reed in Eddie Jackson

Expectations for Chicago Bears safety Eddie Jackson were already through the roof entering his third pro season. New defensive coordinator Chuck Pagano added even more fuel to the hype fire.

Pagano said last week that Jackson reminds him of former Ravens safety Ed Reed, who enters the Hall of Fame this year.

"From a talent standpoint? Very, very similar," Pagano said, via the Chicago Sun-Times. "Great instincts. Great range. Great ball skills. He's only three years into it. Ed has a lot more time on task, obviously. He's got a lot of the same traits. He loves football. He's a football junkie. And again, the sky's the limit for a guy like that.

"When you know the defense and you know what you're doing and then you can spend all your time figuring out the offense and being one step ahead, that's where he's got an edge on everybody. He's very similar to Reed."

Pagano coached Reed in Baltimore for four seasons. He will now help Jackson take the next step in what could be an epic career.

Jackson is coming off a dynamic second season in which he was named first-team All-Pro after compiling six interceptions, 15 passes defended, a sack and 51 tackles.

The Bears' safety has the range ideal for the modern NFL, but has plenty of strides to make before a true comparison to Reed is fair to the young player.

"He had a great year last year -- but that was then," safeties coach Sean Desai said. "He knows that. We're going to challenge him in a way that we see, and he sees, the small areas he can improve. ...

"In this league, it's about one step and one inch. If you can get him one step faster than he was last year, that could lead to more plays he can make. If you get him one inch closer, that can lead to more plays."

When Jackson suffered an injury late in the season (missing the final two games of the regular season and didn't play a snap in the playoff tilt), the Bears' back end noticeably suffered without the playmaking safety's ability to blanket the secondary. Watching Nick Foles dice up the Bears' defense late in the postseason tilt underscored Jackson's importance to Chicago's D.

If Jackson lives up to Pagano's expectation in 2019, it will go a long way in the Bears' defense repeating their dominant 2018 campaign.

 

 

 

Kinda like....

Quote

In the same draft where we took Chad Pennington # 18 overall, the Patriots found a stud Quarterback in Round 6, # 199 overall.  

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001032071/article/bears-dc-pagano-sees-some-ed-reed-in-eddie-jackson

Patriots Coach Belichick sees some Joe Montana in Tom Brady

Expectations for Patriots QB Tom Brady were already through the roof entering his third pro season...

 

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Jets fans hating on drafting a top 5 safety and a young leader who’s part of the solution to change this toxic culture...

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5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

This!!!!!  MAC was a dumpster fire.  NOT finding a GREAT safety in the 4th round is not even in his top 10 biggest fukk ups!!!!

The thing that I dislike the most about the NFL is that as far as management positions go and even lots of times in coaching is that it’s an incredibly “closed shop”.  As long as you have the right connections you’re going to get recycled into a job with another team after you have failed somewhere else.  Also lots of nepotism.

Maccagnan is really on another stratosphere though.  Dumber than a box of rocks, with his Fraud coffee cups and using the same few “$100 words” in his sentences thinking he was conning someone.  I knew Gase would despise him for that alone (being far below Gase intellectually), I just never thought Gase would be able to get rid of him this quickly.  Thank goodness he did.

It will be very interesting where Maccagnan lands in his next job.  You’d think it will only be because Casserly calls in another favor.  You can be sure the team that hires him puts him in a position where he can do the least damage.  But I’m not sure if that’s even Janitor.

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1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

A coach is singing his player’s praises. 

Shocked. 

Shocked I tell you. 

Green pimped a day 3 LB who drove the wrong way into a tunnel. 

Adams gets props everywhere and we ignore them all.

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51 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Can you imagine Al Toon playing now. OH WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN JERRY RICE! 

I argued for years that Toon was better than Rice.  

Right around 1990 I started keeping pretty quiet on the subject.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ed Reed generated turnovers.  So no, Pagano wouldn't compared Adams to him.

The best comparison for Adams would probably be Kam Chancellor (former 5th round pick). 

Jesus this again? Bro you finally got laid and you still can't let this go..... lol

Troy Polamolu - Eric Berry - Brian Dawkins. statistically that is the group he is trending with and is ahead statistically everywhere except INTs

Kam Chancellor after 2 seasons would wish he had the stats of Adams.. its not even close. 

 

Adams in his first 2 seasons vs Eric Berry, Brian Dawkins, Troy Polamalu and Eddie Jackson

has more takles, more sacks, more forced fumbles. So the JETS drafted a Safety at 6, oh well, and it just so happens that the same year the Bears drafted a guy later that has more INT's ok, they don't play the same areas on the field and both excel at their respected position and .... your boys at PFF have them as 1 and 2 safety on last year. 

Dv6ezFTWoAAvhRc.jpg.b72a7bcc006ecd636c50f50640db9479.jpg

52 minutes ago, JiF said:

Jackson and Adams are clearly used totally different.  Jackson a free roaming center fielder and Adams is basically a LB'er.  I'm not saying Adams can do what Jackson does but I know for a fact that Jackson could not come close to doing what Adams does.  I could be wrong here but I dont think Jackson is an all world athlete head and shoulders above Adams.  A good, not great athlete.  I think the wrap on him other than always injured was that he was not a "speed demon" for safety who cant tackle.  I think his instincts are just insane.

I do think dumbing it down to just turnovers is a bit juvenile in thought.  Not all turnovers are created equal.  And is play on 3rd down forcing a punt any different than an INT that doesnt give you better field position?  I dont think so.  It's like the old saying, a bomb on 3rd down that gets picked off is no different than a punt on 4th.

Jamal had 65 more tackles and 3 more sacks than Jackson.  It's safe to assume, somewhere in those statistics are a few plays on 3rd down that created a punt situation or maybe even created a turnover for someone else. 

Jackson really isnt asked to do much.  He wasnt at Bama either.  He just plays a great centerfield.  Compare that to what Jamal Adams is asked to do and it's night and day.

I'm not arguing your overall point.  The Bears got a game changing player at a non-premium position much later in the draft.  Kudos.  I just think there could be a lot worse situations than having Jamal Adams on your team and using a fluff quote from a coach to drive home an already belabored point is weak sauce. 

and for the record you can go back to the draft threads I wanted Mahomes at 6, but I am not pissed off we have Adams. Also drafting Mahomes at 6 with Bowles here would more than likely mean that Mahomes would have been held back and not performed as well because Bowles sucked.

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1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

Plenty of cogent arguments against Mac's allocation of resources.  "Another team got hit by lightning in the 4th round" isn't one of them.

Also, you may have noticed that Mac is no longer the GM. Since the Adams and Maye picks are now sunk costs, and the guy responsible is no longer here, there is literally zero utility to discussing where they were picked. I mean, what point are you trying to make? Mac is bad at resource allocation? Cool, we'll keep it in mind when we consider supporting his rehiring.

Some of these kids just can’t help themselves. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Stark said:

Jesus this again? Bro you finally got laid and you still can't let this go..... lol

Troy Polamolu - Eric Berry - Brian Dawkins. statistically that is the group he is trending with and is ahead statistically everywhere except INTs

Kam Chancellor after 2 seasons would wish he had the stats of Adams.. its not even close. 

 

Adams in his first 2 seasons vs Eric Berry, Brian Dawkins, Troy Polamalu and Eddie Jackson

has more takles, more sacks, more forced fumbles. So the JETS drafted a Safety at 6, oh well, and it just so happens that the same year the Bears drafted a guy later that has more INT's ok, they don't play the same areas on the field and both excel at their respected position and .... your boys at PFF have them as 1 and 2 safety on last year. 

Dv6ezFTWoAAvhRc.jpg.b72a7bcc006ecd636c50f50640db9479.jpg

 

Too funny. 

But not in that ha ha type of funny. 

 

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2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Why would a Jets fan care about the Bears 4th rounder?   Oh... trash MAC? :)

I HATE MAC... but this is a bit unfair.  

 

just someone looking for a reason to b!ttch about something

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1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

All valid points, just like it would be valid to bash the Corey Davis pick (because Juju was taken later) or the Mccaffery pick (because Kamara/Hunt were taken later). 

It's very easy to look at past drafts, find a player taken in the top 10 and then find another player of equal or greater value in a later round. The Bears took Trubisky in that same draft (instead of Mahomes or Watson).

There were 20, or so, safeties taken in that draft so the likelihood of any 1 player outperforming 19 other really talented players is not that great. Even if that players was taken in the top 10. 

OJ Howard/Njioku/Engram are all really good Tight Ends taken in the 1st round, they weren't bad picks because the Niners found Kittle in the 5th round. 

For me, it's much simpler really.

We had been a pretty good D.  We were a consistently horrible O without a QB.  We picked A Safety, then another Safety, and skipped on QB.

Subsequent events have worked out good enough, mostly via luck and high-cost in picks.  We're ok now.

But again, because we're ok doesn;t retroactively make Adams the right pick.  He simply wasn't.

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1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

It's clearly a waste to take a QB high in the first round, when the GOAT was picked in the 6th, Drew Brees at the top of the 2d, and Aaron Rodgers in the late first.

Plenty of cogent arguments against Mac's allocation of resources.  "Another team got hit by lightning in the 4th round" isn't one of them.

Also, you may have noticed that Mac is no longer the GM. Since the Adams and Maye picks are now sunk costs, and the guy responsible is no longer here, there is literally zero utility to discussing where they were picked. I mean, what point are you trying to make? Mac is bad at resource allocation? Cool, we'll keep it in mind when we consider supporting his rehiring.

Can we also consider it next time we draft a non-vital Defensive player when we desperately need an Offensive improvement? 

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In the same draft where we took Jamal Adams # 6 overall, the Bears found a stud Safety in Round 4, # 112 overall. 

You forgot forever injured Marcus Maye was also picked in the second round of that draft. Could have had both Jamal Adams and Eddie Jackson.

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The constant anti-Adams narrative on here is really starting to wear on me. A bunch of jerkoff Jets fans pounding away at their keyboards to complain about one of their best players ad nauseum isn't what most would expect to find on a Jets fan site, but here we are twisting ourselves into pretzels and grasping at straws for reasons to whine about the pick. Oh look Chuck Pagano said this 4th round safety reminds him of Ed Reed - derpa derp derp. ****off.

Looking forward to the next super original anti-Adams thread.

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2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

WHO CARES?

What is it with this fanbase going out of their way to discredit the players that they are supposed to be rooting for?

What the hell is wrong with you?

You said the same sh*t to people who used to complain about Darron Lee. Give the schtick a rest already. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

For me, it's much simpler really.

We had been a pretty good D.  We were a consistently horrible O without a QB.  We picked A Safety, then another Safety, and skipped on QB.

Subsequent events have worked out good enough, mostly via luck and high-cost in picks.  We're ok now.

But again, because we're ok doesn;t retroactively make Adams the right pick.  He simply wasn't.

Yes, and?

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59 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

You said the same sh*t to people who used to complain about Darron Lee. Give the schtick a rest already. 

Except complaining about Darron Lee made sense, because his play on the field was garbage.  Complaining about Adams makes no sense at all, because his play on the field is top tier (at least, by PFF standards) and he's great off the field too.

Complaining about the pick as opposed to the player used to make sense, since that was complaining about the GM. But that guy's not the GM anymore, so complaining about that pick now is about as relevant as whining about how the Jets started Adrien Clarke and Wayne Hunter on the OL back in the day.  Bad GM work by a GM who isn't here any more. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Can we also consider it next time we draft a non-vital Defensive player when we desperately need an Offensive improvement? 

Not really, no - since Mac's mistakes really don't bear at all on how Joe Douglas or Champ Kelly or George Paton or [insert surprise name here] are doing as the GM.

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I mean, is there anyone arguing that Adams was the right pick there, or are you all just tilting at windmills?

The following things are all true:

Adams is a terrific safety and his pick is a sunk cost

Picking a safety in the top 10 is a misallocation of resources unless there is nobody close to him in potential impact

Picking a safety in the top 10 when you need a QB and there are 2 high-ceiling QBs staring at you when you pick is insane.

If the worst thing your GM does is pick allpro players at the wrong positions, that's bad but significantly better than consistently picking busts who amount to nothing

Any Jets fan who thinks Gettleman was crazy for taking Saquon over Darnold but thinks Adams over Watson was the right call is a homer.

OK?

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Its totally fair.  We used the 6th pick on Adams for 1 INT.  The Bears used the # 112 pick on a guy who in the same span has 8 INTs. 

And not only did Macc take Adams at 6, he took ANOTHER Safety in Round 2. 

Record since those 2 picks:  9-23. 

There isnt a GM on the planet who would have taken Jackson over Adams, and saying so is hindsight.

Now, if you want to compare Jackson to Maye, thats a fair argument.  Jackson was a value pick because he was injured, yet his injury was a broke tibia which shouldnt be a long term thing.   He was a great pick, and a value that had Mac wanted a complement to Adams could have been our 3rd rounder that year.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

For me, it's much simpler really.

We had been a pretty good D.  We were a consistently horrible O without a QB.  We picked A Safety, then another Safety, and skipped on QB.

Subsequent events have worked out good enough, mostly via luck and high-cost in picks.  We're ok now.

But again, because we're ok doesn;t retroactively make Adams the right pick.  He simply wasn't.

I think the tonight process that year, but many, was that the following draft class would have better QB prospects and I'm pretty happy with Darnold. 

Take a second safety was idiotic.I can't argue with that.

Either way, we've lived through gholston and Robertson and plenty of other busts. I'm very very happy with Adams. He's a great player that will help us win plenty of games. 

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