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[Tony Pauline] Joe Douglas Done Deal

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1 hour ago, slats said:

as Mangini had with the Jets with Pennington, Favre, and Clemens,

lol? lol

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11 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I'm just here for the food.

Well you better not show up at snack time for the  Douglas interview, he looks like you'll be getting left over crumbs.  :)

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1 hour ago, slats said:

During Gase's "failed" tenure in Miami, he went 5-1 against the Jets.

So beating one of the worst teams in the NFL makes him....what?

Just curious, when people use a word in quotes, like you use "failed" in quotes, they're usually implying something. 

Rather than presume what you intend, let me just ask:  Was Gase a success or failure in Miami in your view?

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I think it's safe to say that he's probably an upgrade over Bowles and, in the short term, I'll take it.

A point I agree with..  I may have doubts re: Gase and his top-end-potential as a Head Coach or as a "offensive/QB genius", but he should certainly be an upgrade over Bowles.  And our roster is materially better in 2019, so he'll have a better team to coach as well.

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Give Gase the GM who he feels he can work with the best -not a yes man, but a guy who shares his vision- and give him everything else he claims to need and let him sink or swim on his own merits with no excuses.

Does any Head Coach in the NFL actually get all this?  This level of deference is generally reserved for the Bill Parcells of the world. 

Are we, as a fanbase, so beaten down on our repeatedly failed GM's, that we now think we need to go the Coach-led organization direction?  

And can the Coach-GM relationship ever truly work when both report to the Owner, rather than the Coach reporting to the GM?  Or god forbid, the GM reporting to the Coach?

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The Dolphins were/are a dysfunctional organization. The Jets have been, too. But they make the right hire here -and the Johnson's stay out of their way- maybe that dysfunction finally starts to dissipate. They have to at least try that. 

Fair points.

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9 hours ago, Warfish said:

Some sins simply cannot be forgiven.  Like logic, critical thinking and objectivity.

Image result for gold jerry gold

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10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

What are you talking about?  People are putting themselves out there when they take a negative stance.

They are also doing it taking a positive stance.

The only ones not 'putting themselves out there' are the wait and see type you mention.

You earn trust in this world, not just in sports so if a team has been stupid and run badly for a long time it is totally natural for every  new move to be met with a raised eyebrow or skepticism.

Want to see fans back every move the jets make?  Fing win for more than a year or two at a time.

Fans of the pats think every move they make is gold because they have been good for so long and have earned that trust.

People blithely clapping at every move the jets ever make are just as bad as the negative nellies.

Earn the damn trust.

 

 

10 hours ago, Warfish said:

"Cowards" and Real Fans like you, right? 

People hear what they want to hear.

You can say, for example, that Jamal Adams is a very good safety dozens of times.......but if you don't agree that he's 1. the best player on the Jets, 2. the best Safety in the NFL and 3. was the only right pick in 2017, well......you get lumped in with your "always negative fans". 

You can have a wait and see attitude on Coach Gase, but if you express any less-then-glowing analysis of his resume or stats....well, sh*t, there we go, always negative again.   

Some sins simply cannot be forgiven.  Like logic, critical thinking and objectivity.

There is no virtue in being a mindless yes-man homer, especially for this franchise, anymore so than being a universal hater of every single move.  But frankly, there are very few of either in reality.  But like I said, people hear what they want to hear, and some just LOVE to tell everyone how THEY are the best fan.  

Respect and faith are earned.  This franchise has not earned either.  As fans we all hope for the best.  All of us.  Some of us just don't feel we need a purity test of absolute universal positivity for our fellow fans.

 

 

 

It's not about blindly liking everything the Jets do. I didn't like the Gase hiring, not big on Greg Williams, I wasn't a fan of taking Quinnen and I want to trade Robbie and Leo. That's not blindly liking everything they do. My post was about people who choose to either not have an opinion ON ANYTHING or choose to be against EVERYTHING the team does. Doing either of those two things is an actual philosophy that some people utilize in every aspect of their lives NOT not just for the Jets. It limits their exposure to criticism. That's what makes them cowards and typically those types of people have limited success in anything they do. 

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7 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Doing either of those two things is an actual philosophy

Warren Buffet: <sips tea> Actually what’s holding you back is not taking a firm position on the Steve McClendon re-up.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Was Gase a success in Miami?

 

I get you want to ignore his other stops and recite 23-25. ignore what went on down here.  Ignore the QB injuries.  Ignore that they won more games than predicted.  Make erroneous claims like Tannehill was worse. Forget playoffs with an injured QB.  Forget in the playoff hunt with Osweiller.

23-25. Simple.

He didn't win a SB, lost his job, so I guess he wasnt a success but it isn't that simple.

 

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Warren Buffet: <sips tea> Actually what’s holding you back is not taking a firm position on the Steve McClendon re-up.

UnitedWhoFans <pulls up in a gold-plated Lamborghini>: You know, he’s not wrong.

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2 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Oh, is that how it works?

Yes.  While no one wants to feel sad all the time there are some who get conditioned to it and find they enjoy the attention they get from friends and family.  Being a sad-sack Jets fan fulfills them somehow.

SAR I

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1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Yes.  While no one wants to feel sad all the time there are some who get conditioned to it and find they enjoy the attention they get from friends and family.  Being a sad-sack Jets fan fulfills them somehow.

SAR I

Started watching the Mets in 79, Jets in 81. At which point should I have switched to the Yanks and Giants?

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Sergey Brin, on the secret to success: “I got my start loudly arguing on the Internet that the trade-up for Dewayne Robertson was an absolute heist and all the pieces fell into place from there.”

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Was Gase a success in Miami?

Was Belichick a success in Cleveland?

Come on, man.  His performance in Miami is as relevant as Belichick's was in Cleveland.  And the message boards (all usenet newsgroup stuff back then) were saying the same exact things and worse about the Belichick hire in NE.  Gase obviously had some troubles down in trailer park heaven but that doesn't determine much and, IMO, shouldn't be a cause for massive worry.

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7 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Started watching the Mets in 79, Jets in 81. At which point should I have switched to the Yanks and Giants?

Probably in 79 and 81!

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14 hours ago, choon328 said:

The sad truth is that there are people in this world and on this board who will never put themselves out there to back anything the Jets do. It's easier to take a negative stance or a wait and see approach on everything in life bc the blow back if you're wrong is minimal compared to actually putting yourself out there. Its not just sports, there are people like that in every aspect of life. They're cowards.

And if you're offended by that then there's a reason why you would be.

You hit the nail right on the head. Some people on this board, not all, revel in their misery. It's comforting. It's their safe space. It's easier to be an insufferable tool and make a snarky, redundant comment on every single post than it is to try to find a positive spin. Real life comes with enough misery to feign outrage over watching men play a sport. 

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25 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 

I get you want to ignore his other stops and recite 23-25. ignore what went on down here.  Ignore the QB injuries.  Ignore that they won more games than predicted.  Make erroneous claims like Tannehill was worse. Forget playoffs with an injured QB.  Forget in the playoff hunt with Osweiller.

23-25. Simple.

He didn't win a SB, lost his job, so I guess he wasnt a success but it isn't that simple.

 

So he wasn't a success.  Thank you for your honesty.

I'll ignore your claim re: Tannehill's production, because honestly, anyone can look up the numbers for themselves if they're interested and decide for themselves how to interpret them.  Clearly you and I are using different metrics for "better vs. worse".  I use QB stats, you use team wins.  

Not specific to you, but the defense of Gase's resume reminds me of the defense of Mangini. 

-Both came from division rivals. 
-Both were well-thought-of coordinators. 
-Both had early success at Head Coach and made the playoffs and had a 1-and-done. 
-Both finished 23-25 after three years as a Head Coach. 
-Both were often called "genius" by their fans. 
-Both had issues at QB, starting with with an established veteran (Pennington/Tannehill) who got hurt, and following with a veteran (Favre/Cutler). 
-Both got a second chance as Head Coach after being fired after three years of declining performance,   

We basically hired Mangini after he was fired by the Jets, albeit the Offensive version.

Mangini went 5-10 and 5-10 in his second chance.  We all hope Gase will be different and do better.

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12 hours ago, The Crusher said:

The real sad truth is this team won 11 games in 3 years. Why would we back anything they did at this point? Bravery? No, more like gullibility.

And if you're offended by that then there's a reason why you would be. 

The Jets won 9 games in the last 2 years.

The Chiefs won 9 games the 2 years before Reid and Smith turned around their offense.

The Rams won 11 games the 2 years before McVay and Goff turned around their offense.

The Jets are capable of winning 10 games with Gase and Darnold managing the offense.  That's real, that's not wishful thinking.

Have a little faith that Christopher Johnson is doing a good job and has positioned the Jets this well.  We're ahead of schedule.  It took 30 years for the Dolphins to sniff the playoffs during their post-Marino rebuild, same for the Bills post-Kelly.  We hit rock bottom when Woody left and the mess was given to CJ.  Now a few seasons we're going to be thought of as a likely playoff team by some and a potential playoff team by all.  We got our franchise quarterback, we have a Top 3 running back, we have a Top 5 LB, we have a Top 3 S, we have an experienced head coach with a brilliant offensive pedigree, our defensive coordinator is a proven winner/motivator/animal. 

It's a miracle.  Enjoy it.  Doesn't happen very often in these parts.

SAR I

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Was Belichick a success in Cleveland?

5 years, 1 playoff season, overall losing record.  No, he wasn't.

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Come on, man.  His performance in Miami is as relevant as Belichick's was in Cleveland.

So Gase is Bill Bellichek now?  We should simply have faith he will be great now, because Bellichek was great?

No one denies it's possible.  The question is if it is likely.  

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Gase obviously had some troubles down in trailer park heaven but that doesn't determine much aand shouldn't be a cause for massive worry.

I'm not massively worried.  I'm discussing the man and his resume to-date.

Until he coaches some games, that's all we've got.

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5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The Jets won 9 games in the last 2 years.

The Chiefs won 9 games the 2 years before Reid and Smith turned around their offense.

The Rams won 11 games the 2 years before McVay and Goff turned around their offense.

Joe won the lottery.

Sam won the lottery.

Surely SAR will now win the lottery too, right?

Logical fallacies are fun.

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Both were well-thought-of coordinators. 

Mangini was not a well-thought-of coordinator. He had one year as a coordinator under Belichick, and few believed he was actually running the defense. 

There are definitely some parallels, but that and the Favre-Cutler comparison probably don't qualify. 

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22 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Was Belichick a success in Cleveland?

Come on, man.  His performance in Miami is as relevant as Belichick's was in Cleveland.  And the message boards (all usenet newsgroup stuff back then) were saying the same exact things and worse about the Belichick hire in NE.  Gase obviously had some troubles down in trailer park heaven but that doesn't determine much and, IMO, shouldn't be a cause for massive worry.

Exactly.

If Gase went to the Rams instead of the Dolphins, he'd be a Super Bowl head coach running a dynasty instead of an also-ran in Florida and the Jets would only have dreams of being able to attract a guy like that.  Goff and Tannehill, two polar opposites.  Hands-off owner in LA, meddling owner in Miami.  Top 3 RB in LA, nobody in Miami.

We've watched enough football to know how circumstances can make or break an excellent head coach.  It's as if Belichick and Carroll never coached here, it's like they don't remember Shula or Levy on their second-gigs to so many of these defeatist 'woe is me' numbskulls.

If you would have told me 2 years ago that we'd have Sam Darnold, Adam Gase, Le'Veon Bell, Gregg Williams, Jamal Adams, and CJ Mosely as our Core 6 I'd have given my right arm.  Now we have them and the boo-hoo-snuggle-my-insecurity brigade is conditioned to keep acting like every NYDN article is truth, Christopher Johnson is a spoiled brat, and there's no way the Jets can have a good season.  Begone.

SAR I

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Joe won the lottery.

Sam won the lottery.

Surely SAR will now win the lottery too, right?

Logical fallacies are fun.

What's not fun is arguing with someone who just likes to argue for the sake of arguing.

When the Jets win the Super Bowl and I'm livestreaming the parade from the Canyon Of Heroes, note that I won't be interested in your take on the disappointing color of the confetti.

SAR I

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44 minutes ago, choon328 said:

It's not about blindly liking everything the Jets do. I didn't like the Gase hiring, not big on Greg Williams, I wasn't a fan of taking Quinnen and I want to trade Robbie and Leo.

Interesting how similar of view on these things are.  I liked Williams hiring tho, and I like Quinnen as a player (like I like Adams as a player), I just don't think DT was enough of a need for that investment.

44 minutes ago, choon328 said:

That's not blindly liking everything they do.

Clearly.

44 minutes ago, choon328 said:

My post was about people who choose to either not have an opinion ON ANYTHING or choose to be against EVERYTHING the team does.

The trouble, IMO, is there are too many people on JN who take the views we both agree on above, and decry those holding them as "always negative".  Dislike one thing, and assuredly, someone here will decry you as "always negative".

I can't count have many have said it about me, yet I'm very optimistic we will improve, like many of our moves, and think we're headed generally int he right direction.  Loves Williams hire, happy with Bell at RB (not my money, what do I care about his pay), like Crowder, like Mosely, like Quinnen as a player, if not the pick (I wanted O-Line, like many, or that TE for Darnold).  I expect (nay, demand tbqh) a .500 season as a minimum this year, because we have more than enough talent to BE a .500 team.  I'm happy to wait and see on Gase, while I don't love his resume like say, Jet Nut does, I'm not calling for him to be fired or anything ffs.    

44 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Doing either of those two things is an actual philosophy that some people utilize in every aspect of their lives NOT not just for the Jets. It limits their exposure to criticism. That's what makes them cowards and typically those types of people have limited success in anything they do. 

I just don't agree that there are many people who really dislike everything.  Like I said, folks here hear what they want to hear, and there is a rather hardcore (IMO) intolerant positivist movement right now, who simply cannot tolerate doubts or questions or analysis they disapprove of.

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5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

What's not fun is arguing with someone who just likes to argue for the sake of arguing.

Some might say it's not fun arguing with the single least authentic attention-whoring troll in JI/JN history.

You've been playing a part on these forums for years mate, and everyone knows it.  There is nothing earnest nor authentic about your e-persona and endless desire for attention.  Like I said before, your inevitable turn will be fun to watch.

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30 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Started watching the Mets in 79, Jets in 81. At which point should I have switched to the Yanks and Giants?

Started watching the Yankees in '75, Jets in '79.  You shouldn't switch teams.  And I'm really sorry (truly) that you picked the wrong teams, it sucks, I've got several family members doing the Mets/Jets/Islanders/Knicks quadrangle and they are miserable.

But...

There comes a time that your team is starting to rise from the ashes and it's okay to believe.  If you think back to 2 years ago with a burned out Bowles, awful Fitzpatrick, a DL comprised of malcontent potheads, blown draft picks aplenty, and a younger brother owner we'd never heard of and compare that with where we are today, how can you not be thrilled?  How can you put down the team and the effort they are making to put a competitive team on the field?  How can you not hear respected people in the media putting the Jets at 8-9 wins?

These are the good times.  In Goodfellas, we all love the ascent, we love the cigarette sales out of the back of the truck, keeping your mouth shut with the judge, Maury and his wigs.  The movie doesn't drag until the end when they're all old and you know its over.  Get onboard.  It's the first hour of Goodfellas.  Let's enjoy the ride.

SAR I

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33 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Was Belichick a success in Cleveland?

Come on, man.  His performance in Miami is as relevant as Belichick's was in Cleveland.  And the message boards (all usenet newsgroup stuff back then) were saying the same exact things and worse about the Belichick hire in NE.  Gase obviously had some troubles down in trailer park heaven but that doesn't determine much and, IMO, shouldn't be a cause for massive worry.

Trailer park? More like a third world county ghetto. 

If Darnold turns out to be the next Brady that would help. 

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18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

So Gase is Bill Bellichek now?  We should simply have faith he will be great now, because Bellichek was great?

 

At this juncture of their respective careers (6 months after losing the HC job in Cleveland vs 6 months after losing the Dolphin HC job) ), yes! Not only is Gase comparable at this same point of their respective careers , I'd argue that he is better now than Belichick was at that point.

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27 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I just don't agree that there are many people who really dislike everything

How this germinates looks like thus:

1. You take a position, such as “X is bad and this will end poorly.”

2. Triggered Homer Chorus loses their collective sh*t at your heretical claim.

3. X turns out to be bad, it ends poorly, Homer Chorus faceplants into septic tank.

4. Instead of taking responsibility for their embarrassing, blind homerism, Homer Chorus labels poster from Line 1 (whose apt analysis was spot on) as “The Real Enemy.”

When you make a statement and these people get very upset by that statement, it’s simply because you’ve animated their considerable latent anxiety from the countless times they were brutally humiliated in the past. Considering the performance of the Jets since 1969, the Homer Chorus has had few pelts to hang on the wall in defense of their collective sadness, so they—like the mole people that live in the subway—spend all their time upset about the topsiders who can actually tolerate sunlight. 

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20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So he wasn't a success.  Thank you for your honesty.

I'll ignore your claim re: Tannehill's production, because honestly, anyone can look up the numbers for themselves if they're interested and decide for themselves how to interpret them.  Clearly you and I are using different metrics for "better vs. worse".  I use QB stats, you use team wins.  

Not specific to you, but the defense of Gase's resume reminds me of the defense of Mangini. 

-Both came from division rivals. 
-Both were well-thought-of coordinators. 
-Both had early success at Head Coach and made the playoffs and had a 1-and-done. 
-Both finished 23-25 after three years as a Head Coach. 
-Both were often called "genius" by their fans. 
-Both had issues at QB, starting with with an established veteran (Pennington/Tannehill) who got hurt, and following with a veteran (Favre/Cutler). 
-Both got a second chance as Head Coach after being fired after three years of declining performance,   

We basically hired Mangini after he was fired by the Jets, albeit the Offensive version.

Mangini went 5-10 and 5-10 in his second chance.  We all hope Gase will be different and do better.

Gase was 13-11 with Tannehill healthy. Tannehill completed 66% of his passes in those games with almost a 2:1 TD/Int ratio and a 93.2 passer rating.

I think the vast majority of people would say Darnold will be better than Tannehill. That is the reason Gase was brought in. If he can get Darnold to play at his best they will win games. It's as simple as that. To base his coaching ability off his win/loss record or his offensive rankings in Miami is short sighted. You have to take into account that half of his time in Miami he was playing with a #2 or #3 QB. 

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Some might say it's not fun arguing with the single least authentic attention-whoring troll in JI/JN history.

You've been playing a part on these forums for years mate, and everyone knows it.  There is nothing earnest nor authentic about your e-persona and endless desire for attention.  Like I said before, your inevitable turn will be fun to watch.

You describe yourself quite effectively.  I play no part and seek no attention, especially the last 4-5 years as I've got plenty of more important things to do than argue with the great unwashed on the dinosaur format of social media.  This grudge with me has been going on for years, time you got over it.  You just don't like the fact that I've been more popular without even trying than you ever were with your basement full of stale pretzels and flowcharts.

You play the part of a sarcastic whiner, a poor man's Tom Shane.  Like your idol, Joe Beningo, it's tired and no one wants to hear it anymore, especially at a time when we all know we're a team on the rise under strong leadership.  You've always disappeared when we start winning.  Let's not wait until September.  Create a pseudonym and troll the other New Yorkers whose team truly does suck.  Begone.

SAR I

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33 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

-Both came from division rivals. 
-Both were well-thought-ofs
-Both had early success at Head Coach and made the playoffs and had a 1-and-done. 
-Both finished 23-25 after three years as a Head Coach. 
-Both were often called "genius" by their fans. 
-Both had issues at QB, starting with with an established veteran (Pennington/Tannehill) who got hurt, and following with a veteran (Favre/Cutler). 
-Both got a second chance as Head Coach after being fired after three years of declining performance,   

We basically hired Mangini after he was fired by the Jets, albeit the Offensive version.

Mangini went 5-10 and 5-10 in his second chance.  We all hope Gase will be different and do better.

Mangini had just 1 year as a coordinator prior to the Jets in 2005 the 10-6 Pats had a 17th ranked D.. I don't think that's a genius on any level..

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3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Gase was 13-11 with Tannehill healthy. Tannehill completed 66% of his passes in those games with almost a 2:1 TD/Int ratio and a 93.2 passer rating.

Yep, about what Tennehill was before Gase.

3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I think the vast majority of people would say Darnold will be better than Tannehill.

Dear God I hope so.  So much hope in/for Sam, for all of us right now.....

3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

That is the reason Gase was brought in. If he can get Darnold to play at his best they will win games. It's as simple as that.

Agreed.  If Darnold blossoms to be the all-pro we all hope and dream, we'll compete and win games.

3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

To base his coaching ability off his win/loss record or his offensive rankings in Miami is short sighted.

Agree to disagree.  I think it's the perfect metric to judge an Offensive-Coordinator QB Guru type coach.

3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

You have to take into account that half of his time in Miami he was playing with a #2 or #3 QB. 

Because he helped get his #1 QB hurt with his decisions and mismanagement of the Phins O-line, at least according to the Phins fans I've discussed it with.

Now, will he learn from that, and manage the O-line better?  I hope so.  Because Darnold IS our future and protecting and supporting him is (or should be) our primary focus as an organization, IMO.

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I like what I saw from playcalling and adjustments from the fish when we played them. 

I like the fact that it looks like Gase got rid of Macc, tbh. 

If we bring a guy in here that has a good working relationship with the coach, I will like that. That hasnt happened since Tanny/Mangini around here. Maybe the first Rex year, but I doubt it. I bet that is the point the Johnsons switched to this ridiculous reporting structure. We've seen failure after failure of HC and GM being at odds. Let's try something crazy...let's find out what happens when they get along. 

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17 minutes ago, Dcat said:

At this juncture of their respective careers (6 months after losing the HC job in Cleveland vs 6 months after losing the Dolphin HC job) ), yes! Not only is Gase comparable at this same point of their respective careers , I'd argue that he is better now than Belichick was at that point.

Peyton Manning believes that Adam Gase is the most brilliant offensive mind he's ever worked with, Sam Darnold rose from injury to become one of the best NFL quarterbacks in the last quarter of his rookie NFL season, Le'Veon Bell, Keleche Osemle, and CJ Mosely are happy to be onboard, we've ridded ourselves of a mediocre GM....and....and.....and.....

The sky is falling. 

We should all be weeping with the rest of the Boo-Hoo-Snuggle-My-Insecurity Brigade.  Worst Jets offseason, ever.  Pity me, mom.  Give me a hug, dad.  I'm a Jets fan and that means I automatically deserve the biggest drumstick at Thanksgiving dinner.  When I amount to nothing in my life and am living in your basement, you know why.  It wasn't me.  It was the Jets.

SAR I

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