[Tony Pauline] Joe Douglas Done Deal

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, choon328 said:

For me I can see that the Jets got better this off-season. With that being said I'm highly disappointed in the way the off-season played out. The Jets had an opportunity to go all in and they went about 80% in. The Jets used significant assets either monetarily or draft picks on 2 positions that were not needs (DT/MLB). But then ignored 2 positions of great need in CB and Center. They had plenty of money and opportunity to address every need and they failed. 

Like I said earlier I do think they got better but if Darnold and Allen take similar leaps this season then the Jets will be the 3rd best team in the division. They had an opportunity to be a lot better. 

I don't disagree.  Those were clearly two areas where it would have been nice to see upgrades.  Going DT at #3 wasn't fun to watch happen but I don't criticize taking the BPA available if there wasn't a decent trade down opportunity, which it seems like there wasn't.  I just wish this Draft, like most drafts, had at least one CB worth a Top 5 or 10 pick.  Denzel Ward went #4 last year, Lattimore went #11 in 2017, Jalen Ramsey went #5 in 2016, etc.  The Jets needs just didn't really line up with what this Draft was giving at the positions where they picked.

In any case, not addressing CB or Center are likely two contributing factors to Macc being shown the door.  Not the key reason, but just more evidence that it was time for him to go.

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, Bocajetfan said:

The upgrades over 2018 are substantial and far outweigh the statues que. The fears most fans have is over sustain ability. Rex and yes even Bowles gave fans a glimpse of what could be. Only to see things fall apart. I for one will be optimistic and look forward rather than dwell on past failures. Whatever that future will be.

The other problem in the past was that SO MANY other things had to be really good on the Jets in order for them to compete for the playoffs because we didn't have a great QB.  When you have an average QB you HAVE to have some combination of a great rushing attack, a great defense, and great playmakers who can turn 10 yard completions into 60 yard TDs.  That's a tough way to have to compete but I don't think the Jets need to do that anymore.  Hopefully Sam will be the tide that raises all the boats and makes everyone seem a little bit better, the way Tom Brady has turned so many average players into Super Bowl champions and even Super Bowl MVPs (Deion Branch became a SB MVP, really???).

I'm with you on sustainability.  The Jets have had too many ups and downs.  The ups were bright but short (2009-2010, 2015) and the downs just seem to last for too long.  Assuming you have a good HC, the formula for sustained NFL Success = (Franchise QB + Good Drafting) x Smart Salary Cap Management.  I'd argue that we now have the QB and have done a reasonable job with the Cap, but we've had too many years of subpar drafting.  This team needs to string two or three consecutive solid drafts together (getting 1 Pro Bowler and 2-3 other starters out the Draft each year for 2 or 3 years).

[GreenFish]

This is why as much as I think Macc had to go, I’m not angry with the job he did. Bottom 10 performance yes. But he left the next GM a FQB and a young what seems to be a .500 roster. 

If Douglas is who we think he is, than we should be perennial contenders in the near future.

It was absolutely the right call to fire Macc though. I’m not even mad at the timing since we seem to have our pick of litter.

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

well that's interesting

Yeah

I've already thought about this.   If the Jets are successful, and I think they will be,  this is going to get  real interesting contract wise in about 3 years.

[Untouchable]

23 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

This is why as much as I think Macc had to go, I’m not angry with the job he did. Bottom 10 performance yes. But he left the next GM a FQB and a young what seems to be a .500 roster. 

If Douglas is who we think he is, than we should be perennial contenders in the near future.

It was absolutely the right call to fire Macc though. I’m not even mad at the timing since we seem to have our pick of litter.

This

I never hated Macc on an Idzikian level. I thought the guy was basically a mediocre GM.

Not great, not especially good, but not a steaming pile of dogsh*t either.

Hell, just solely by delivering us Darnold he escapes that billing. Simply because I’m still a firm believer that Darnold is the best QB prospect since Luck and (barring injury) will be a legit Top 5-8 QB in the league within 2 years time and for 15 years afterwards.

People can call it blind luck all they want, bottom line is the guy made the trade up that obtained him. I don’t really care whether you want to give a guy like Heimerdinger the majority of the credit or not, Macc still ok’d the move at the end of the day. Otherwise we’d be stuck with someone like Allen or Rosen right now. And I think Allen will at least be Cam Newton-lite, but I’d still much rather have Sam.

People can say that Leo, Adams and Quinnen were no-brainers...but they sure as sh*t weren’t amongst the majority of the fanbase. If it were up to the fans we’d have a core of Kevin White, Mike Williams and Josh Allen/Rosen right about now.

At the end of the day, I’m glad we moved on from Macc. His draft record after the 1st round pretty much cements that.

But it’s going to be pretty funny when the Jets are contending for the playoffs, possibly championships, over the next few years while everyone pretends that it was solely all Joe Douglas’ doing and Macc is a total sh*tstain on Jets history while acquiring Darnold, Bell, Mosley, Herndon, R. Anderson, Q. Williams, H. Anderson, Leo, Avery Williamson, etc.

[Jetsbb]

I wonder if their relationship will be even close to these buddies.

[Peace Frog]

16 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

This

I never hated Macc on an Idzikian level. I thought the guy was basically a mediocre GM.

Not great, not especially good, but not a steaming pile of dogsh*t either.

Hell, just solely by delivering us Darnold he escapes that billing. Simply because I’m still a firm believer that Darnold is the best QB prospect since Luck and (barring injury) will be a legit Top 5-8 QB in the league within 2 years time and for 15 years afterwards.

People can call it blind luck all they want, bottom line is the guy made the trade up that obtained him. I don’t really care whether you want to give a guy like Heimerdinger the majority of the credit or not, Macc still ok’d the move at the end of the day. Otherwise we’d be stuck with someone like Allen or Rosen right now. And I think Allen will at least be Cam Newton-lite, but I’d still much rather have Sam.

People can say that Leo, Adams and Quinnen were no-brainers...but they sure as sh*t weren’t amongst the majority of the fanbase. If it were up to the fans we’d have a core of Kevin White, Mike Williams and Josh Allen/Rosen right about now.

At the end of the day, I’m glad we moved on from Macc. His draft record after the 1st round pretty much cements that.

But it’s going to be pretty funny when the Jets are contending for the playoffs, possibly championships, over the next few years while everyone pretends that it was solely all Joe Douglas’ doing and Macc is a total sh*tstain on Jets history while acquiring Darnold, Bell, Mosley, Herndon, R. Anderson, Q. Williams, H. Anderson, Leo, Avery Williamson, etc.

This. 

Like 100%. 

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

The other problem in the past was that SO MANY other things had to be really good on the Jets in order for them to compete for the playoffs because we didn't have a great QB.  When you have an average QB you HAVE to have some combination of a great rushing attack, a great defense, and great playmakers who can turn 10 yard completions into 60 yard TDs.  That's a tough way to have to compete but I don't think the Jets need to do that anymore.  Hopefully Sam will be the tide that raises all the boats and makes everyone seem a little bit better, the way Tom Brady has turned so many average players into Super Bowl champions and even Super Bowl MVPs (Deion Branch became a SB MVP, really???).

I'm with you on sustainability.  The Jets have had too many ups and downs.  The ups were bright but short (2009-2010, 2015) and the downs just seem to last for too long.  Assuming you have a good HC, the formula for sustained NFL Success = (Franchise QB + Good Drafting) x Smart Salary Cap Management.  I'd argue that we now have the QB and have done a reasonable job with the Cap, but we've had too many years of subpar drafting.  This team needs to string two or three consecutive solid drafts together (getting 1 Pro Bowler and 2-3 other starters out the Draft each year for 2 or 3 years).

Having the QB is 90% of the battle. 

The other 10% you fill in year to year. 

[Apache 51]

3 hours ago, slats said:

The article @flgreen posted suggested that Kelly coming in as the Assistant GM or Director of Player Personnel might be exactly the right move for him. 

By all accounts, this would be a great one-two punch. And for all the (valid) complaints about the timing of Mac's firing, probably a better front office set-up than CJ would've come up with without Gase. 

Let's wait and see.

[MDL_JET]

4 hours ago, Apache 51 said:

Something makes me think these guys don't want to be asst. anything, idk.

“Thanks for coming in Chad. Yeah, we’re good at GM now but just wanted to see if you’d be cool being his assistant?”

[batman10023]

5 hours ago, slats said:

Yes. Before he made his first million he was a racist with a foot fetish. 

Doesn’t his wife make the money in the household?

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, Lith said:

 

Al forgot to make the proper edit on “our” before he posted this Eric Allen text

[Dinamite]

Looks like all official interviews will wrap up tomorrow.    Then Gase deals with minicamp.  I would expect a "second" interview on Friday for Douglas (if that is really the #1 candidate as everyone says) and eventual hiring/press conference to follow.

[genot]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

This

I never hated Macc on an Idzikian level. I thought the guy was basically a mediocre GM.

Not great, not especially good, but not a steaming pile of dogsh*t either.

Hell, just solely by delivering us Darnold he escapes that billing. Simply because I’m still a firm believer that Darnold is the best QB prospect since Luck and (barring injury) will be a legit Top 5-8 QB in the league within 2 years time and for 15 years afterwards.

People can call it blind luck all they want, bottom line is the guy made the trade up that obtained him. I don’t really care whether you want to give a guy like Heimerdinger the majority of the credit or not, Macc still ok’d the move at the end of the day. Otherwise we’d be stuck with someone like Allen or Rosen right now. And I think Allen will at least be Cam Newton-lite, but I’d still much rather have Sam.

People can say that Leo, Adams and Quinnen were no-brainers...but they sure as sh*t weren’t amongst the majority of the fanbase. If it were up to the fans we’d have a core of Kevin White, Mike Williams and Josh Allen/Rosen right about now.

At the end of the day, I’m glad we moved on from Macc. His draft record after the 1st round pretty much cements that.

But it’s going to be pretty funny when the Jets are contending for the playoffs, possibly championships, over the next few years while everyone pretends that it was solely all Joe Douglas’ doing and Macc is a total sh*tstain on Jets history while acquiring Darnold, Bell, Mosley, Herndon, R. Anderson, Q. Williams, H. Anderson, Leo, Avery Williamson, etc.

The best post i've read in months, if not longer. If the Jet's win 10 games this year,[which is a distinct possibility], they would have done it with a FQB, a young roster, and going into next off season well under the cap, with a draft strong at WR, and offensive tackles. Who gets credit. The brilliance of Gase. Lol. No. A vastly improved roster, and the defensive mind of Gregg Williams. A coach who wouldn't be here, if it wasn't at the insistence of Mac. This apple cart was upset, when it didn't have to be. Frankly, it pisses me off.

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, Jetsbb said:

I wonder if their relationship will be even close to these buddies.

Yeah well, look at who's got the semi aggressive crossed arms.  (a man who is about to go to the slaughter) 

 

And who's got the open stance, with the cup of java in his hands.  Win win situation. 

[GreenFish]

22 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Looks like all official interviews will wrap up tomorrow.    Then Gase deals with minicamp.  I would expect a "second" interview on Friday for Douglas (if that is really the #1 candidate as everyone says) and eventual hiring/press conference to follow.

Were Kelly and Douglas the only two to get the night before dinner treatment? Fontenot seems a few years away and I don't think Fitterer is a good fit. 

Crossing my fingers for either Douglas or Kelly. Both would be great. 

[RutgersJetFan]

Do you schmucks seriously know who these guys are? Don’t you have homes? 

[choon328]

32 minutes ago, genot said:

The best post i've read in months, if not longer. If the Jet's win 10 games this year,[which is a distinct possibility], they would have done it with a FQB, a young roster, and going into next off season well under the cap, with a draft strong at WR, and offensive tackles. Who gets credit. The brilliance of Gase. Lol. No. A vastly improved roster, and the defensive mind of Gregg Williams. A coach who wouldn't be here, if it wasn't at the insistence of Mac. This apple cart was upset, when it didn't have to be. Frankly, it pisses me off.

Both starting tackles will be free agents next year. The Center is average at the very best. The right guard will be overpaid and on his last year of his deal and the LG will also be on the last year of his deal next year. All of this with no plan in place to replace any of those guys.  There is no legit #2 CB on the roster and still no edge rusher besides a guy who fell in the draft bc of legit concerns. Thank you Macc!

If the Jets win 10 games those top tackles will be gone before they pick. Drafting a WR in the 1st and punting on offensive line again would be more of the same. 

The Jets could quite possibly end up having to bring in a #2 CB, Edge rusher, starting LT, starting Center and starting RT. All of that with half the money they had this off-season. Yet you were pissed off Macc got fired? Give me a ******* break.

[GreenFish]

Anyone know how far down the front office totem poll you have to give a promotion in order to hire someone from another team? 

Andy Weidl Director of Player Personnel and Ian Cunningham Director of College Scouting are also rumored to possibly follow Douglas. I guess Weidl can becomes VP of Player Personnel. 

But just wondering how far down the promotion rule applies. 

[Jetsfan80]

14 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Since 2000

Faulk, Holmes, Lewis, Bettis, Rice and Lynch. 

If Gurley wasn’t hurt the outcome might of been different and if the refs didn’t cheat for LA NO and Kamara would of been in the SB and could of won.

There’s also plenty of top RBs in the Championship games. 

The fact the NE has won half of the SBs in the time frame skews the results. 

I said 15 years, because that's when the rule changes occurred to favor the passing game heavily.  Faulk, Holmes and Lewis do not fall within that window. 

Jerome Bettis was no longer an "elite RB" in 2005 when the Steelers won the SB.  He only carried the ball 110 times for 368 yards that year.  Willie Parker was the primary RB.

That leaves Ray Rice and Marshawn Lynch.  2 "elite" RB's in a 15 year period won a title. 

Counter that with how many elite QB's won a title over that same 15 year period. 

When given the chance to draft a franchise QB vs. an elite talent at RB, and you need a QB, you take the QB every single time.  You can win a title without an elite RB or with an RBBC.  Very rarely can you win without an elite QB. 

Hell, Saquon Barkley himself had a transcendent season last year, and the Giants still ended up picking 6th.  What does that tell you?

[genot]

8 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Both starting tackles will be free agents next year. The Center is average at the very best. The right guard will be overpaid and on his last year of his deal and the LG will also be on the last year of his deal next year. All of this with no plan in place to replace any of those guys.  There is no legit #2 CB on the roster and still no edge rusher besides a guy who fell in the draft bc of legit concerns. Thank you Macc!

If the Jets win 10 games those top tackles will be gone before they pick. Drafting a WR in the 1st and punting on offensive line again would be more of the same. 

The Jets could quite possibly end up having to bring in a #2 CB, Edge rusher, starting LT, starting Center and starting RT. All of that with half the money they had this off-season. Yet you were pissed off Macc got fired? Give me a ******* break.

Your forming a judgement on Edoga and Polite. I think both of them are draft steals.He signed the best available slot corner available. Poole. No one showed interest in Paradis. An aging center coming off a major injury. In your post, you basically say the same thing, im saying. Other than a few needs on our o-line and perhaps cornerback, our roster is complete. 30 million under the cap, and a draft which is deep at tackle and WR, the chances are good we will be able to fill in the few blanks on the roster. Are you discounting us resigning Shell and Beachum. If we don't, im sure there is, and would have been a plan to replace them

[New York Mick]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I said 15 years, because that's when the rule changes occurred to favor the passing game heavily.  Faulk, Holmes and Lewis do not fall within that window. 

Jerome Bettis was no longer an "elite RB" in 2005 when the Steelers won the SB.  He only carried the ball 110 times for 368 yards that year.  Willie Parker was the primary RB.

That leaves Ray Rice and Marshawn Lynch.  2 "elite" RB's in a 15 year period won a title. 

Counter that with how many elite QB's won a title over that same 15 year period. 

When given the chance to draft a franchise QB vs. an elite talent at RB, and you need a QB, you take the QB every single time.  You can win a title without an elite RB or with an RBBC.  Very rarely can you win without an elite QB. 

Hell, Saquon Barkley himself had a transcendent season last year, and the Giants still ended up picking 6th.  What does that tell you?

That the Giants defense sucked  

Unless you don’t think that QB is a franchise QB, which is what some people thought about Darnold and he hasn’t played enough to prove them right or wrong.

Brady won half of them, Foles lol, Manning’s team won his last one not him, Wilson is good, Flacco blah, Eli average, Rogers good, Brees first time HOF, Big Ben good, Eli again, Manning first time HOF, Big Ben again, Johnson lol, Dilfer lol, Warner HOF. Going by this list I’d say they figured they might be able to get something more out of Eli by pairing him up with a top 3 RB. 

Bettis and Parker were thunder and lightning. Bettis had 9 TDs that year. 

2000 was a nice round number. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Do you schmucks seriously know who these guys are? Don’t you have homes? 

Ok you lost me on the second question

[Jetsfan80]

33 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

That the Giants defense sucked  

Unless you don’t think that QB is a franchise QB, which is what some people thought about Darnold and he hasn’t played enough to prove them right or wrong.

Brady won half of them, Foles lol, Manning’s team won his last one not him, Wilson is good, Flacco blah, Eli average, Rogers good, Brees first time HOF, Big Ben good, Eli again, Manning first time HOF, Big Ben again, Johnson lol, Dilfer lol, Warner HOF. Going by this list I’d say they figured they might be able to get something more out of Eli by pairing him up with a top 3 RB. 

Bettis and Parker were thunder and lightning. Bettis had 9 TDs that year. 

2000 was a nice round number.  

 

Football in 2000 was not even recognizable when compared to football in 2019.  The rule changes had a tremendous impact on the way offenses were run.  But sure, if you want to single out Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, have at it I guess?

If Dave Gettleman really believed Daniel Jones >>> Sam Darnold, you have no leg to stand on to suggest he's making smart decisions over there.  Daniel Jones is the next Hackenberg. 

[Sarge4Tide]

All 4 of the finalists seem like legit NFL GM candidates. Fitterer and Douglas have the best resumes IMHO, but Fontenot and Kelly seem like strong candidates, too.  You never know,  of course, but at least all 4 seem like they could be successful. 

Caveat: I thought Maccagnan was a good hire.....so I'll just hope for the best 

 

[choon328]

2 hours ago, genot said:

Your forming a judgement on Edoga and Polite. I think both of them are draft steals.He signed the best available slot corner available. Poole. No one showed interest in Paradis. An aging center coming off a major injury. In your post, you basically say the same thing, im saying. Other than a few needs on our o-line and perhaps cornerback, our roster is complete. 30 million under the cap, and a draft which is deep at tackle and WR, the chances are good we will be able to fill in the few blanks on the roster. Are you discounting us resigning Shell and Beachum. If we don't, im sure there is, and would have been a plan to replace them

I'm not forming a judgement on either player. You're assuming they'll be good enough to start next year. If anybody is forming a judgement it's you.

Every starting offensive lineman besides Osemele is average. So re-signing Beachum and Shell does nothing for me except waste about $15 million in cap space. 

This roster is far from complete. On defense there is zero consistent rush off the edge and the CB group is below average

On offense there is no depth behind Bell at HB that can fill in on 1st and 2nd down if he gets injured. The backup TE is a question mark. The offensive line is returning 4 starters from one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL in 2018. Oh and we are counting on a massive leap from a 2nd year QB who will have below average to average protection in front of him.

That's hardly close to complete.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Word is that the interview went great and should be official this week

[Rolloffjet]

20 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Word is that the interview went great and should be official this week

Link 

[Joejet]

8 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Do you schmucks seriously know who these guys are? Don’t you have homes? 

Most of us have read up on all of the candidates, and most of us are homeless but public libraries give us internet access.

[New York Mick]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Football in 2000 was not even recognizable when compared to football in 2019.  The rule changes had a tremendous impact on the way offenses were run.  But sure, if you want to single out Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, have at it I guess?

If Dave Gettleman really believed Daniel Jones >>> Sam Darnold, you have no leg to stand on to suggest he's making smart decisions over there.  Daniel Jones is the next Hackenberg. 

They obviously didn’t think Darnold was a FQB and must of still believed in Eli last year. 

Jones is a prime example of taking a QB just because you need one instead of taking a better pick at a different position. 

I wish the Jets would of drafted Cushing or Orakpo instead of Sanchez. If you don’t believe in a QB you don’t draft him and take a better choice. 

[Jetster]

9 hours ago, genot said:

The best post i've read in months, if not longer. If the Jet's win 10 games this year,[which is a distinct possibility], they would have done it with a FQB, a young roster, and going into next off season well under the cap, with a draft strong at WR, and offensive tackles. Who gets credit. The brilliance of Gase. Lol. No. A vastly improved roster, and the defensive mind of Gregg Williams. A coach who wouldn't be here, if it wasn't at the insistence of Mac. This apple cart was upset, when it didn't have to be. Frankly, it pisses me off.

I wrote that in another post. Macc will be in some Texas Wild Wings watching the Jets kick azz & Darnold developing into a great QB thinking, why the hell did I get saddled with Todd Bowles for 4 years.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

9 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Do you schmucks seriously know who these guys are? Don’t you have homes? 

Them or the Maccagnan counter-truthers. Good grief.

[Ghost]

Okay, can we make a decision already? 

[Jetster]

I hate the way the Macc ignored the Oline, but the 2014 Jets were so bereft of young talent he was in retrospect a terrible choice for GM because he did not have the experience to build a team from the bottom up.

The Jets had NO QB, an aging Oline, no stud RB, no secondary (One of the worst in 2014), no stud LBs, no edge rushers, all they had was a decent Dline but their cornerstone DT (Mo Wilkerson) turned out to be sheep in Wolfs clothing after getting paid. 

Just too many misses in the draft between Idzik & Macc in the mid rounds. Milliner was an injury bust so instead of having a Lattimore or Ward, we got NOTHING. Calvin Pryor, instead of having our safety for 5 years, NOTHING. Darren Lee? No one can tell me Bowles wasn't drooling for this guy to be his Buchanan, Devin Smith? Injury bust so no young WR. Then the double miss again at WR with Stewart & Hansen. The huge Hackenberg gamble. 

So looking back to see where this started after 2014, and fast forward to what this new GM is walking into & its easy to understand why 4 out 5 GM candidates have come to NJ & WANT THIS JOB, (Patton probably doesn't want to live in NJ). 

Unlike Macc coming here in 2015 with only rice in the cupboard, this new GM has Sam Darnold, Le'veon Bell, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Poole, Ty Montgomery, Henry Anderson, Jenkins, Avery Williamson, Leo, Q.Williams, Tru Johnson, KO, Polite instead of Mauldin, Wesco instead of Amaro, a more experienced Robbie Anderson, Jamison Crowder, Chris Herndon a future pro bowl TE. 

This 2019 Jets roster is NIGHT & DAY compared to 2014.

 

[Mavericknyc1980]

5 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Word is that the interview went great and should be official this week

I pray you are right