Jets not Digging Doug? Rumor Says Gang Green not Meeting Douglas Demands

[Apache 51]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

 

The totality of his record and his decisions were poor.  Sure there were a couple good picks , Maccagnan was wrong more than he was right.  The total body of his work was poor.   

There you have it in 3 sentences.

[ZachEY]

41 minutes ago, genot said:

It's dangerous to buy into the false narrative that Mac was a bad GM. I can get butt fumbled 100 times, it's not going to change my opinion.

Dangerous to buy into objective reality?  The question isn't, was Mac a bad GM, the question is, was he the worst GM over his tenure?  The answer to that is probably yes.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I’m not sure how you can say he wasn’t a bad GM.  Look at the team’s record, the draft history and the fact that he had TWO offseason’s out of 5 where he had $100 million or more in cap space.   He pissed away the first go-around of all that money, and had to beg people to take his money this past offseason.   

The totality of his record and his decisions were poor.  Sure there were a couple good picks here and there, ANY general manager making as many decisions as Maccagnan did over 5 offseason’s and draft’s will get some right and some wrong.  It would be damn near impossible to get everything wrong, just like it’s impossible to get everything right.  When you factor that in, Maccagnan was wrong more than he was right.  The total body of his work was poor.   

In 5 drafts, he had 4 top 10 picks.  Of course he's going to get some decent players (though, he barely did).  The team was garbage and he did meaningfully worse than Mel Kiper's big board.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

In 5 drafts, he had 4 top 10 picks.  Of course he's going to get some decent players (though, he barely did).  The team was garbage and he did meaningfully worse than Mel Kiper's big board.

he really didn't outperform a given draft slot except, arguably, for herndon.  that's really bad in 5 years, to only be able to point to one true draft coop.

[dbatesman]

50 minutes ago, genot said:

It's dangerous to buy into the false narrative that Mac was a bad GM. I can get butt fumbled 100 times, it's not going to change my opinion.

#hero

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

In 5 drafts, he had 4 top 10 picks.  Of course he's going to get some decent players (though, he barely did).  The team was garbage and he did meaningfully worse than Mel Kiper's big board.

Exactly.   I’d even give him more “credit” for Darnold had his plan A for QB that year was not  Kirk Cousins and giving him that comical amount of money.   Thank f***ing God he was used as leverage (as usual) in that negotiation.  That was one instance where Maccagnan not being able to close the deal was a very, very, very good thing.  

[genot]

4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I’m not sure how you can say he wasn’t a bad GM.  Look at the team’s record, the draft history and the fact that he had TWO offseason’s out of 5 where he had $100 million or more in cap space.   He pissed away the first go-around of all that money, and had to beg people to take his money this past offseason.   

The totality of his record and his decisions were poor.  Sure there were a couple good picks here and there, ANY general manager making as many decisions as Maccagnan did over 5 offseason’s and draft’s will get some right and some wrong.  It would be damn near impossible to get everything wrong, just like it’s impossible to get everything right.  When you factor that in, Maccagnan was wrong more than he was right.  The total body of his work was poor.   

I respect your opinion. I think Mac substantially improved in all phases of Gming the last three years. He pissed away alot of money on stopgap players, who he knew wouldn't be here in a few years. I think he made the mistake of trying to build a team, with a win games this year attitude. The only player he overpaid for was C. J. All the other contracts, i though were reasonable. I forgot what your view was on the 2017 draft. The Jamal draft. It's to me a perfect example of the false narrative about Mac

[genot]

11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Dangerous to buy into objective reality?  The question isn't, was Mac a bad GM, the question is, was he the worst GM over his tenure?  The answer to that is probably yes.

I'm looking at this roster, and the roster of other AFC east teams. This is a team that can compete for a division title, if Darnold performs the way he did the last 4 games. CB is a concern. WR depth, and Ol depth, is a concern. I believe this team is very close to sustainable success.

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

I respect your opinion. I think Mac substantially improved in all phases of Gming the last three years. He pissed away alot of money on stopgap players, who he knew wouldn't be here in a few years. I think he made the mistake of trying to build a team, with a win games this year attitude. The only player he overpaid for was C. J. All the other contracts, i though were reasonable. I forgot what your view was on the 2017 draft. The Jamal draft. It's to me a perfect example of the false narrative about Mac

How is the 2017 draft a perfect example of the false narrative?   Adams is a very good player, but what’s so great about it?  

[CTM]

4 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Not exactly. Think about it. All we have is data complied over the last few drafts, his resume, league rep and his public interviews. 

Is that not what 90% of official team interviews are for? To go over the information that is already publicly out there? He just speaks with them in a more detailed manner on it and he gives his overall layout/plan for the Jets.

none of this is new, cool and otherwise secretive info that us, the fans, don’t already know and can’t get a good enough feeling on.

You are the same guy that insisted Eric Allen was a legit "senior reporter" because the Jets gave him that title. You give too much credence to titles.

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

I respect your opinion. I think Mac substantially improved in all phases of Gming the last three years. He pissed away alot of money on stopgap players, who he knew wouldn't be here in a few years. I think he made the mistake of trying to build a team, with a win games this year attitude. The only player he overpaid for was C. J. All the other contracts, i though were reasonable. I forgot what your view was on the 2017 draft. The Jamal draft. It's to me a perfect example of the false narrative about Mac

Im not sure I'd go as far as he substantially improved.  Proof is in the pudding, the guy was a disaster.  That said I really like what the Jets did this offseason.  I didnt love their draft but saw the logic in each pick.  I really loved the Crowder, Bell, Montgomery, Compton additions along with the Osemele trade.   People want to complain about not forming a super unit on the OL, but the offense is suddenly legit with some serious weapons for Sam.  Mac left some legit talent for Gase to coach.  If Gase is this offensive genius/QB whisperer, there is no excuses (outside of Sam just sucking) to not have an offense that can push toward the top 10 in the league. 

 

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

I'm looking at this roster, and the roster of other AFC east teams. This is a team that can compete for a division title, if Darnold performs the way he did the last 4 games. CB is a concern. WR depth, and Ol depth, is a concern. I believe this team is very close to sustainable success.

Indeed, this is the year that the 4 win team overtakes the Super Bowl Champions.

[genot]

6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

How is the 2017 draft a perfect example of the false narrative?   Adams is a very good player, but what’s so great about it?  

The argument that he didn't draft a QB, which proves his incompetence.

[genot]

Just now, TeddEY said:

Indeed, this is the year that the 4 win team overtakes the Super Bowl Champions.

The Patriots can fold at any time. Of course it's dependent on how Darnold performs. What happened to the view that wins and losses weren't important last year. It was all about developing Darnold. I love Darnold, but facts are, he had a hard time in a bunch of games last year.

[Embrace the Suck]

If true what a stupid f'ing team! Makes how much per year, but is pinching pennies... I swear the Johnsons do this so they can feel like they're actually business people and not just luck sperm club winners who have been handed everything they have.

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

The Patriots can fold at any time. Of course it's dependent on how Darnold performs. What happened to the view that wins and losses weren't important last year. It was all about developing Darnold. I love Darnold, but facts are, he had a hard time in a bunch of games last year.

Ah, this is the year that the pig is ripe for the slaughter.  We've only been saying that for a decade and a half now.

Wins and losses weren't important, regarding the team, because there was no way we were in contention.  However, wins and losses is kind of a thing when you start saying we're competing for a division championship this year.  I also agree, Darnold isn't proven yet, which is all the more reason it's absurd to consider this team an actual contender - even without looking at all the other holes.

[Jet Nut]

39 minutes ago, genot said:

Laundry had 81 receptions for the Browns last year, and averaged almost 5 yds more a catch, then he did in Miami. He went to Gase and asked if he could be used more on the outside. he felt he was capable of more downfield catches. Looking at his stats with the Browns, he could have been right. I don't criticize Gase for playing him where he wanted. But shipping him out, concerns me.

Landry had 112 catches the year before in Miami.  Catching passes from Cutler, Matt Moore and Foles.  And it was 3.2 yards more per. His yards per game went down.  His catch % went down 15%.  Playing in a different O, as the NFLs top paid WR. He was their 3rd WR by seasons end.  

He wasnt shipped out, he was allowed to walk, wasnt he?

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, long time suffering Jets f said:

 Most of us wanted McCarthy. If getting massages during team meetings was his biggest offense, We would have dealt with it for as long there's no back stabbing and pissing off players and management like Gase is known to do.

Not most. There was certainly a vocal pro-McCarthy group but there was an equal number of anti-McCarthy fans like me. Gase was more of an afterthought that almost no one seemed to like though. I am in a "wait and see" mode with Gase but almost anyone would be better than Bowles. Except for McCarthy he would have been a complete nightmare.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Ah, this is the year that the pig is ripe for the slaughter.  We've only been saying that for a decade and a half now.

Wins and losses weren't important, regarding the team, because there was no way we were in contention.  However, wins and losses is kind of a thing when you start saying we're competing for a division championship this year.  I also agree, Darnold isn't proven yet, which is all the more reason it's absurd to consider this team an actual contender - even without looking at all the other holes.

I said Darnold has to become a consistent performer. If not, we don't have a chance. Patriots lost Brown, they lost Flowers. They have holes. Holes that are masked by a great QB and HC. Sooner or later that won't be enough. If Darnold plays the way he played at the end of last year, the Jet's have a chance to challenge.

[genot]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Landry had 112 catches the year before in Miami.  Catching passes from Cutler, Matt Moore and Foles.  And it was 3.2 yards more per. His yards per game went down.  His catch % went down 15%.  Playing in a different O, as the NFLs top paid WR. He was their 3rd WR by seasons end.  

He wasnt shipped out, he was allowed to walk, wasnt he?

No Nut. He was traded to the Browns for a 4th Rd and 7th rd pick

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, genot said:

It's dangerous to buy into the false narrative that Mac was a bad GM. I can get butt fumbled 100 times, it's not going to change my opinion.

Ask and ye shall receive. Mac was a HORRIBLE GM in many many ways

[genot]

3 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Ask and ye shall receive. Mac was a HORRIBLE GM in many many ways

If the Jet's win 10 games this year with a young roster. Who gets the credit. Idzik.

[choon328]

2 hours ago, genot said:

If the Jets win 10 games this year with a young roster. Who gets the credit. Gase. Williams. A gm who hasn't acquired any of the players. Who. I'm curious what your answer is

They have a bad offensive line without a capable starter at Center and very little depth behind the starters. No starting capable #2 CB, a #1 CB coming off his worst season and a razor thin CB group behind them. No edge rush to speak of as well.

If the Coaching staff can get 10 wins out of this group with those holes they deserve all of the credit.

[Jethead]

The incumbent always gets the credit. Facts don't matter. It's just the way the world works.

[genot]

1 minute ago, choon328 said:

They have a bad offensive line without a capable starter at Center and very little depth behind the starters. No starting capable #2 CB, a #1 CB coming off his worst season and a razor thin CB group behind them. No edge rush to speak of as well.

If the Coaching staff can get 10 wins out of this group with those holes they deserve all of the credit.

And if Polite and Derrick Jones or Parry Nickerson provide what you said we are lacking, who gets the credit. Gase apparently likes Harrison. Maybe he's right. Maybe he's wrong. Lets wait and see. Depth is an issue. Yes. It's not only an issue with the Jet's though. Alot of teams can't cope with losses to certain units.

[sec101row23]

47 minutes ago, genot said:

The argument that he didn't draft a QB, which proves his incompetence.

He’s incompetent because he drafted ArDarius Stewart, Chad Hansen, Dylan Donahue etc. that year.  He also left some very good players on the board when selecting those stiffs.   

[choon328]

Macc had over $100 million to spend in FA and still came away with glaring holes on offense and defense. To say he had a good off-season is ridiculous.

[sourceworx]

Have there been any updates on this today? 

[genot]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

He’s incompetent because he drafted ArDarius Stewart, Chad Hansen, Dylan Donahue etc. that year.  He also left some very good players on the board when selecting those stiffs.   

Those WR's were busts, thats for sure. Donahue was worth taking a flyer on. He got hurt his rookie year, then had those off field problems. Not sure i'd blame that on Mac. I thought Leggett was a good pick. The jury is out on Jones. He didn't really get a chance with Bowles last year. Lets see what he does in camp. He has a very good skill set.

[choon328]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

And if Polite and Derrick Jones or Parry Nickerson provide what you said we are lacking, who gets the credit. Gase apparently likes Harrison. Maybe he's right. Maybe he's wrong. Lets wait and see. Depth is an issue. Yes. It's not only an issue with the Jet's though. Alot of teams can't cope with losses to certain units.

You think the biggest issue on the Jets is depth???? Their biggest issues are that they have 4 players on the starting offensive line that are average at best. They have no outside pass rush and their #2 CB is a jag. The Jets aren't even better than the Bills at this point let alone the Pats.

And I take issue with this "let's wait and see" attitude. It's a losers mentality. He had plenty of money this off-season to address every need and/or question mark and he FAILED miserably. That's why he got sh*t canned. 

[genot]

7 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Macc had over $100 million to spend in FA and still came away with glaring holes on offense and defense. To say he had a good off-season is ridiculous.

He signed Poole. What other corner would you have signed. Not signing Houston pissed you off. Can't sign everybody.

[genot]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

You think the biggest issue on the Jets is depth???? Their biggest issues are that they have 4 players on the starting offensive line that are average at best. They have no outside pass rush and their #2 CB is a jag. The Jets aren't even better than the Bills at this point let alone the Pats.

And I take issue with this "let's wait and see" attitude. It's a losers mentality. He had plenty of money this off-season to address every need and/or question mark and he FAILED miserably. That's why he got sh*t canned. 

Please tell me who he didn't sign, that would have turned this horrible off season into something worth bragging about.

[#27TheDominator]

21 minutes ago, genot said:

And if Polite and Derrick Jones or Parry Nickerson provide what you said we are lacking, who gets the credit. Gase apparently likes Harrison. Maybe he's right. Maybe he's wrong. Lets wait and see. Depth is an issue. Yes. It's not only an issue with the Jet's though. Alot of teams can't cope with losses to certain units.

Gase likes Harrison so much that he didn't let himself be photographed with Maccagnan in the war room during the draft and got the GM fired shortly thereafter.  Imagine what he would have done if he didn't like Harrison!

[sec101row23]

18 minutes ago, genot said:

Those WR's were busts, thats for sure. Donahue was worth taking a flyer on. He got hurt his rookie year, then had those off field problems. Not sure i'd blame that on Mac. I thought Leggett was a good pick. The jury is out on Jones. He didn't really get a chance with Bowles last year. Lets see what he does in camp. He has a very good skill set.

A lot of your points and counter-points have the words “IF” and “Maybe” in them.  Go back and look at the players that were taken right after those players, it’s sad how much talent Maccagnan left on the table.  Never mind the fact that he didn’t even consider the QBs that year because he just invested a 2nd round pick in Hackenberg.  I wouldn’t be using 2017 as some referendum on Mac not sucking.  It’s very much the opposite.  

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, genot said:

Those WR's were busts, thats for sure. Donahue was worth taking a flyer on. He got hurt his rookie year, then had those off field problems. Not sure i'd blame that on Mac. I thought Leggett was a good pick. The jury is out on Jones. He didn't really get a chance with Bowles last year. Lets see what he does in camp. He has a very good skill set.

Donahue was not worth taking a flyer on.  He had t-rex arms and no athleticism.