Jets not Digging Doug? Rumor Says Gang Green not Meeting Douglas Demands

[genot]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Gase likes Harrison so much that he didn't let himself be photographed with Maccagnan in the war room during the draft and got the GM fired shortly thereafter.  Imagine what he would have done if he didn't like Harrison!

You think that had to do with Harrison. Cmon. I posted comments about Harrison that Gase made. Maybe he was lying. Gase allegedly though we overpaid for Bell. When Bell was signed everybody was talking about the reasonable price we paid to get him.

[JohnnyLV]

40 minutes ago, genot said:

If the Jet's win 10 games this year with a young roster. Who gets the credit. Idzik.

Darnold, Gase and the new coaching staff. 

[Apache 51]

1 hour ago, genot said:

The Patriots can fold at any time. Of course it's dependent on how Darnold performs. What happened to the view that wins and losses weren't important last year. It was all about developing Darnold. I love Darnold, but facts are, he had a hard time in a bunch of games last year.

It takes a competent team around Darnold, not just Darnold.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Exactly.   I’d even give him more “credit” for Darnold had his plan A for QB that year was not  Kirk Cousins and giving him that comical amount of money.   Thank f***ing God he was used as leverage (as usual) in that negotiation.  That was one instance where Maccagnan not being able to close the deal was a very, very, very good thing.  

Stupid, Miserable bast**d was going to do ANYTHING to save his job, and if it meant dumping the Jets entire vault on Cousins...so be it.  If you’re a GM I’m certain you do an analysis of Cousins’ body of work and know the guy fades like a tired racehorse nearly EVERY time he faces a team with a winning record...4-26...that’s ugly, yet Maccagnan would have wrecked the Jet cap to bring this QB in WITH NO TALENT AROUND HIM.  Holes all over his roster.  What was the best you were going to do for $120 Million? An 8-8 record?  The wise thing would be to conserve your resources and try to draft a Franchise QB, and even if you whiff, it’s better than paying a guy that kind of money, who you’re not winning with anyway.

Minnesota could afford to gamble because they thought they had a strong roster up and down and Cousins would complement it and get them over the top....but surprise (sarc)...he didn’t.

Maccagnan KNEW (one of the few things in life) he would have to come home with a QB last year or he was gone.  Had the Giants done the correct thing and swooped up Darnold, Maccagnan would have been left with the choice of an outstanding, probable “Hall of Fame” back in Barkley or Josh Allen/Rosen....who do you think he would have come home with?  Right....NOT Barkley (who actually would have been hands down the correct choice...but NOT if you’re Maccagnan and have to save your job).

So, No, again, he gets zero credit for Darnold because his real “master” plan would have really put the Jets in the soup.

But the most disgusting thing was Maccagnan playing it off like Hackenberg wasn’t another busted pick of his and drafting a Safety (I don’t care if he’s All World), instead of Mahomes or Watson...when the Jets were in actuality QB starved.

 

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, genot said:

Those WR's were busts, thats for sure. Donahue was worth taking a flyer on. He got hurt his rookie year, then had those off field problems. Not sure i'd blame that on Mac. I thought Leggett was a good pick. The jury is out on Jones. He didn't really get a chance with Bowles last year. Lets see what he does in camp. He has a very good skill set.

Dylan Donahue was a 25 year old rookie with extremely short arms that went to West Georgia.  

Jones is a guy who wasn't even a starting CB at Mississippi.  He has all the measurables, but it is pretty unlikely that he is going to put it all together now.  Besides, half his rookie deal is gone and he has done absolutely nothing outside of week 17.  He didn't even get run on specials.  As that fat **** used to say:   "If they don't bite as puppies..."

Leggett was a dog, is a dog and probably will be a dog.  The team had no TEs and he barely played and was quickly passed by Herndon.  Herndon was a nice pick.  That is what one looks like.  We have so few that people are acting like he was the steal of the century. 

[genot]

7 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

A lot of your points and counter-points have the words “IF” and “Maybe” in them.  Go back and look at the players that were taken right after those players, it’s sad how much talent Maccagnan left on the table.  Never mind the fact that he didn’t even consider the QBs that year because he just invested a 2nd round pick in Hackenberg.  I wouldn’t be using 2017 as some referendum on mAc not sucking.  It’s very much the opposite.  

Any player who busts,[and most do], you can look at a player who was drafted we could have had. It's classic Monday morning quarterbacking. Like the 'why we didn't draft Mahomes or Watson.

[isired]

Have there been any updates on this today? 

Haven't seen anything.

Read through the thread a bit, and I have to say- by most accounts, Douglas is Howie's right-hand man and has had his ear. If you're guessing, you have to think he's had the most influence over his team's drafts, for better or for worse.

So maybe Douglas has the experience edge, but it still feels like these guys are close enough that getting them in a room and asking the right questions is what would matter.

[genot]

2 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

It takes a competent team around Darnold, not just Darnold.

I agree with that Apache. A good QB can mask a lot of deficiencies though.

[NYJ1]

It occurs to me the saying, "you pay for what you get" is applicable here? If Chris wants to play cheap, then he may not get his choice. He might have to settle for less? Not sure that's really what you want.

[Bugg]

8 hours ago, Jet Blast said:

Bears = Eagles > Eagles  Uh....

Math is hard.

 

[Apache 51]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

I agree with that Apache. A good QB can mask a lot of deficiencies though.

Darnold plays in only one phase of the game.

[sec101row23]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

Any player who busts,[and most do], you can look at a player who was drafted we could have had. It's classic Monday morning quarterbacking. Like the 'why we didn't draft Mahomes or Watson.

Its not though.  A lot of people like Hunt before the draft.  Kittle too.  Dalvin Cook was another.  Maccagnan also didn’t look at QB because he made a colossal mistake the year before on a QB and couldn’t admit failure by even entertaining the thought of drafting another QB.  

Maccagnan was a poor GM, he just was.  The record, the money spent, the lack of quality draft picks, poor roster building philosophy, poor allocation of resources.   It all adds up to a failure of a GM.  To say he was good is simply flat out wrong.  

[genot]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Dylan Donahue was a 25 year old rookie with extremely short arms that went to West Georgia.  

Jones is a guy who wasn't even a starting CB at Mississippi.  He has all the measurables, but it is pretty unlikely that he is going to put it all together now.  Besides, half his rookie deal is gone and he has done absolutely nothing outside of week 17.  He didn't even get run on specials.  As that fat **** used to say:   "If they don't bite as puppies..."

Leggett was a dog, is a dog and probably will be a dog.  The team had no TEs and he barely played and was quickly passed by Herndon.  Herndon was a nice pick.  That is what one looks like.  We have so few that people are acting like he was the steal of the century. 

Leggett was a 24 year old TE with some upside who missed his rookie season. I don't think he'll ever be a #1 guy but to call him a dog is premature. Jones is a question mark. Bowles was trying to save himself and didn't want to take any chances with Jones or Nickerson. Let's see what happens with those two. All the scouting reports on Jones stated he was a raw prospect who needed a few years to develop.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Its not though.  A lot of people like Hunt before the draft.  Kittle too.  Dalvin Cook was another.  Maccagnan also didn’t look at QB because he made a colossal mistake the year before on a QB and couldn’t admit failure by even entertaining the thought of drafting another QB.  

Maccagnan was a poor GM, he just was.  The record, the money spent, the lack of quality draft picks, poor roster building philosophy, poor allocation of resources.   It all adds up to a failure of a GM.  To say he was good is simply flat out wrong.  

Before the 2017 draft, knowing who was available the following year in 2018. Where would you have placed Mahomes and Watson.

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Before the 2017 draft, knowing who was available the following year in 2018. Where would you have placed Mahomes and Watson.

How do you know who was going to be available over a year in advance?   Darnold, Rosen and Jackson all declared early.  Only Mayfield and Allen used up their eligibility.  I would have had both of them over Mayfield and Allen. 

[genot]

10 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Its not though.  A lot of people like Hunt before the draft.  Kittle too.  Dalvin Cook was another.  Maccagnan also didn’t look at QB because he made a colossal mistake the year before on a QB and couldn’t admit failure by even entertaining the thought of drafting another QB.  

Maccagnan was a poor GM, he just was.  The record, the money spent, the lack of quality draft picks, poor roster building philosophy, poor allocation of resources.   It all adds up to a failure of a GM.  To say he was good is simply flat out wrong.  

Let me be clear about Mac. I never said he was good. Looking at his entire tenure and his responsibilities as GM, i thought he was average, but improving over the last few years. Considering that, and how important stability is in any organization, i thought his firing was a mistake.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, genot said:

No Nut. He was traded to the Browns for a 4th Rd and 7th rd pick

No big deal either way.

But it came down to the Dolphins not thinking he should be paid like the top WR in the NFL.  Not totally on Gase, there were others involved.  Not getting how moving a player who wants a small fortune is a knock on the team.  Especially when with better QB play his numbers drop.  If he did what he was supposed to do Im not so sure they trade for OBJ

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Let me be clear about Mac. I never said he was good. Looking at his entire tenure and his responsibilities as GM, i thought he was average, but improving over the last few years. Considering that, and how important stability is in any organization, i thought his firing was a mistake.

Stability only makes sense if you have competent people in charge.   I didn’t view Maccagnan as competent at all.  

[Rangers9]

Well if true it doesn't seem as if this guy is too excited over coming here. You'd think he'd jump at a chance to be a GM esp in New York. On the other hand look what happened to the last two GMs. Even though it might happened because his friend Gase pushed it with the owner. If the Jets are so committed to Gase you'd think they would deliver him his GM of preference. And not fight over a few million. But 1 mil per year over a 2.5 offer is a significant difference. There's no way he's making anything close to that now. The bottom line: this ownership no matter who is really in charge, Chris or Woody is embarrassing. 

[#27TheDominator]

28 minutes ago, genot said:

You think that had to do with Harrison. Cmon. I posted comments about Harrison that Gase made. Maybe he was lying. Gase allegedly though we overpaid for Bell. When Bell was signed everybody was talking about the reasonable price we paid to get him.

There were reports that Gase was pissed they didn't offer Paradis.  Gase is lying through his teeth now.  That much is obvious.  He had no idea they would fire Maccagnan?  There was no rift?  C'mon. You believe that?  You must if you believe he loves Jonotthan Harrision - even if he did admit they would be scouring the waiver wire for center help. 

[Jet Nut]

19 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Its not though.  A lot of people like Hunt before the draft.  Kittle too.  Dalvin Cook was another.  Maccagnan also didn’t look at QB because he made a colossal mistake the year before on a QB and couldn’t admit failure by even entertaining the thought of drafting another QB.  

Maccagnan was a poor GM, he just was.  The record, the money spent, the lack of quality draft picks, poor roster building philosophy, poor allocation of resources.   It all adds up to a failure of a GM.  To say he was good is simply flat out wrong.  

Lets please be realistic with the players supposedly that people liked.  Usually comes down to fans who mention every top 10 QB, RB whatever before the draft and then when one becomes a star we get to hear how much they liked them, how they would have taken them.  Pretty much every top player at a position thats mentioned on a website gets named on one of the many pre-draft threads.  The same people never, ever come back and say "I would have taken so and so bust, thankfully Im not a GM"

[genot]

4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

How do you know who was going to be available over a year in advance?   Darnold, Rosen and Jackson all declared early.  Only Mayfield and Allen used up their eligibility.  I would have had both of them over Mayfield and Allen. 

No way Rosen and Darnold wouldn't declare. I'm surprised you had Mayfield behind them. Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield, to me were clearly ahead of Mahomes and Watson. Mahomes, Watson, and those others all had boom or bust written on their jerseys. I'm looking at this from a pre 2017 draft perspective.

[genot]

6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Stability only makes sense if you have competent people in charge.   I didn’t view Maccagnan as competent at all.  

You didn't like Mac????

[sec101row23]

Just now, genot said:

No way Rosen and Darnold wouldn't declare. I'm surprised you had Mayfield behind them. Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield, to me were clearly ahead of Mahomes and Watson. Mahomes, Watson, and those others all had boom or bust written on their jerseys. I'm looking at this from a pre 2017 draft perspective.

Really?  Bet people were saying that about Herbert this year too.   But the overall point was that Maccagnan was never going to look at the QBs in 2017, not because he was some visionary and thought he could draft a better one in 2018, ( as evidenced by wanting to pay Cousins all that money) but because he couldn’t admit failure with Hackenberg, when all signs pointed to him being a massive bust.  

[jvill 51]

46 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Have there been any updates on this today? 

Haven't seen anything. The Jets truly have some of the worst beat reporters in the game. If these guys had any sources at all you'd expect they'd be all over a situation like this. Instead they're constantly scooped by the league-wide reporters. I really can't remember the last time one of the beat guys broke a major story that wasn't PR spin obviously fed to them by Macagnan/Heimerdinger. Hell, they not only got scooped on the Mac ouster (by Tony Pauline of all people), but actively and categorically denied there was any truth to it only to have a conniption when it all blew up in their face.

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, genot said:

Leggett was a 24 year old TE with some upside who missed his rookie season. I don't think he'll ever be a #1 guy but to call him a dog is premature. Jones is a question mark. Bowles was trying to save himself and didn't want to take any chances with Jones or Nickerson. Let's see what happens with those two. All the scouting reports on Jones stated he was a raw prospect who needed a few years to develop.

Dog in High School. Dog in college.  Didn't you read the draft profiles?  I am pretty sure that they didn't believe that he was really hurt in 2017.  If the coach was trying to save himself, it would seem like starting young guys would be the way to get some extra leash. 

[genot]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Really?  Bet people were saying that about Herbert this year too.   But the overall point was that Maccagnan was never going to look at the QBs in 2017, not because he was some visionary and thought he could draft a better one in 2018, ( as evidenced by wanting to pay Cousins all that money) but because he couldn’t admit failure with Hackenberg, when all signs pointed to him being a massive bust.  

He cut ties with Wilkerson. He cut ties with Hackenburg once he drafted Darnold. I'm not sure your right on that one.

[jvill 51]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Dog in High School. Dog in college.  Didn't you read the draft profiles?  I am pretty sure that they didn't believe that he was really hurt in 2017.  If the coach was trying to save himself, it would seem like starting young guys would be the way to get some extra leash. 

Not that I disagree that Leggett/Jones likely won't amount to anything, but I don't think playing younger guys would have helped Bowles. The only thing that was going to save him after the Bills debacle, and rightly so, was a whole bunch of wins.

[genot]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Dog in High School. Dog in college.  Didn't you read the draft profiles?  I am pretty sure that they didn't believe that he was really hurt in 2017.  If the coach was trying to save himself, it would seem like starting young guys would be the way to get some extra leash. 

I'm not trying to argue, buthttps://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706675-jordan-leggett-nfl-draft-2017-scouting-report-for-new-york-jets-pick

[Rangers9]

Look Macc whiffed on Hack who even when he played minor league football in the Alliance was mediocre. But blowing it on a 2nd round pick isn't a good reason to fire him. They lost nothing with Hack he never played a down. He did suit up as backup for a few games. At least under Macc the Jets didn't try to play a guy who wasn't good enough as a Qb to play reg season. But he did make a good deal to get Darnold and that includes the trade of  Sheldon. That deal set up the Darnold trade because it gave him an extra 2nd round pick to trade.  And Kearse at least for one year was productive. That trade up to get Darnold could be one of the most significant moves in Jets history. As for his off season moves this year he had cap money and he didn't imo spend it unwisely. He got two very good players in Mosely and Bell. And the price for Bell was ok. He didn't overpay for him he signed him for less than the Steelers offered him previously. 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

I'm not trying to argue, buthttps://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706675-jordan-leggett-nfl-draft-2017-scouting-report-for-new-york-jets-pick

Did you read it? 

Quote

His effort is low at times, especially as a blocker, and scouts have questioned his work ethic. He can take himself out of games at times, and his usually big, strong catch radius will disappear

That spells D-O-G.

He said it about himself

Quote

"I'm a very lazy person," he said then, "so they are not able to trust me because of my practice habits." 

Why do you think he got cut so quickly? 

[isired]

I think Hack was more an example of a GM and coaching staff that didn't communicate than anything else.

QBs bust - it happens to every GM/Team. But 2nd round QBs usually get on the field, there's usually a progression, an arc that eventually reaches an opportunity to get them on the field. Even if they're not seeing what they want to see, it's a "**** it, let's see what he can do" situation. To me, the fact that Hack never saw the field in a game says more about the GM / coaching staff relationship and communication than anything else.

[Bruce Harper]

I'm not sure how this thread turned into another "Macc sucked/no he didn't" thread but it is vaguely annoying when you check in to see if there is any Douglas news and you see another five pages of rehashed arguments about draft picks made three years ago.

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

I'm not sure how this thread turned into another "Macc sucked/no he didn't" thread but it is vaguely annoying when you check in to see if there is any Douglas news and you see another five pages of rehashed arguments about draft picks made three years ago.

It’s f*cking pathetic. 

He’s gone done fired. 

Let it f*cking go. 

Or go talk about it in the Mac Fired thread. 

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

And the price for Bell was ok. He didn't overpay for him he signed him for less than the Steelers offered him previously. 

I am not against the Bell deal.  I would rather have filled RB in the draft and used my money at other spots, but it seems a fair price for a playmaker with that resume, we had the money and the need.  OTOH, the Steelers didn't offer him near that much.  They offered him $70M with only $10M guarantee.  It was an insult offer designed to make him play on the franchise tag again.  The Steelers never were going to give big guaranteed money to a RB.  He called their bluff and they both lost. 

15 minutes ago, genot said:

He cut ties with Wilkerson. He cut ties with Hackenburg once he drafted Darnold. I'm not sure your right on that one.

In each case, 2 years too late.  How much longer could he have possibly held on to either?