Some interesting comments from Kirwan /Carucci on Douglas hire

[Peace Frog]

11 minutes ago, SAR I said:

 

 

Post photos of the inside. You know, the seating bowls that all look the same. 

And 2 of them hold less fans, sort of the most important metric of any stadium dontcja think?  Jerry World has an upper upper deck so far away from the field they need a TV the size of San Antonio to see it.

”I need a fashionable facade...the Jets hate me.....I’m a victim.....bathe me in pity!”

SAR I

Been to all 3. 

Interiorly superior to Met Life by a massive margin. 

Any of those could have been built in NYC and seated 85,000. 

The WSS was a 75k-85k seat monument to the grandeur of NYC. 

Please stop with the non sense. 

Met Life is fine. 

It’s a perfectly fine functional stadium. 

Its an architectural abomination. 

And stop with the low class insults. 

You have no idea. 

[SAR I]

28 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I mean it’s a pretty stupid discussion altogether. Who cares? 

Definitely. And with 20 more years of life expectancy, that’s it for most of the whiners. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I prefer not to be intellectually or otherwise insulted challenged.

FIFY.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, RoadFan said:

SAR I:

I have agreed with many of your posts lately.  But regarding MetLife Stadium? Nah...

Another JN poster once called it a "prison toilet." 

Cold. Grey.  No lid.  Used by two roommates but feels like home to neither.

Listen, it's not Buckingham Palace but it's on par with every other NFL stadium.  They are all bowls with varying levels of sitelines, concourses, and concessions.

And the people complaining the most about aesthetics?  They're the ones who drink themselves blotto in the parking lot and bolt for the exits halfway through the 4th quarter once they are sober enough to drive home again.  For people who supposedly care so deeply about what the building looks like they spend the least amount of time there on gameday.  Drink/Piss/Drink/Eat/Drive Home.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

Been to all 3. 

Interiorly superior to Met Life by a massive margin. 

Any of those could have been built in NYC and seated 85,000. 

The WSS was a 75k-85k seat monument to the grandeur of NYC. 

Please stop with the non sense. 

Met Life is fine. 

It’s a perfectly fine functional stadium. 

Its an architectural abomination. 

And stop with the low class insults. 

You have no idea. 

I like.

Your new style.

Of breaking up.

Long sentences.

Into short.

Ones.

The cosmetics of a stadium never won or lost a football game.  And Jets fans?  Grandeur?  LOL, these aren't Rangers fans Peace Frog.  They don't live on Park Avenue and drive BMW's.  Jets fans are monumentally cheap.  They gave up their season tickets the moment the Jets asked them to pay fair market value, they don't buy $12 tickets on Stubhub to see Sam Darnold after a two-game winning streak, they only go to games if the tickets are free and someone pays for parking too.

The Jets and Giants could have made MetLife the greatest stadium in civilization and all that would have done is price-out and alienate the cheapskates further.  How about both teams know their fanbases very intimiately and know what makes them tick.  Perhaps the starkness and the utility is exactly what their fans want.  Because being asked to pay $8 for a premium PSL location brought them outrage, what, you think they would have paid another $4 for aluminum concourses and carpeted bathrooms?  "Hey, we'll get rid of your louvers if you pay $3 more per game for brick or glass.  We good?"  Of course not.  Jets fans wouldn't pay for toilet paper.

SAR I

[BettyBoop]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

 

 

Post photos of the inside. You know, the seating bowls that all look the same. 

And 2 of them hold less fans, sort of the most important metric of any stadium dontcja think?  Jerry World has an upper upper deck so far away from the field they need a TV the size of San Antonio to see it.

”I need a fashionable facade...the Jets hate me.....I’m a victim.....bathe me in pity!”

SAR I

No I don't think the most important metric is the number of seats.  As for the inside, MetLife(less) stadium has obstructed view seats in the mezzanine!  Poles are in the way!  The Roman Coliseum was built 2000 years ago with no obstructed views!

[Peace Frog]

48 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I like.

Your new style.

Of breaking up.

Long sentences.

Into short.

Ones.

The cosmetics of a stadium never won or lost a football game.  And Jets fans?  Grandeur?  LOL, these aren't Rangers fans Peace Frog.  They don't live on Park Avenue and drive BMW's.  Jets fans are monumentally cheap.  They gave up their season tickets the moment the Jets asked them to pay fair market value, they don't buy $12 tickets on Stubhub to see Sam Darnold after a two-game winning streak, they only go to games if the tickets are free and someone pays for parking too.

The Jets and Giants could have made MetLife the greatest stadium in civilization and all that would have done is price-out and alienate the cheapskates further.  How about both teams know their fanbases very intimiately and know what makes them tick.  Perhaps the starkness and the utility is exactly what their fans want.  Because being asked to pay $8 for a premium PSL location brought them outrage, what, you think they would have paid another $4 for aluminum concourses and carpeted bathrooms?  "Hey, we'll get rid of your louvers if you pay $3 more per game for brick or glass.  We good?"  Of course not.  Jets fans wouldn't pay for toilet paper.

SAR I

Lots of extraneous words for rudimentary  sophistry. 

I’m sure you’ve fooled a lot of folks here which might make you feel better but your premise and schtick is obvious. 

Great uniforms though. 

[Peace Frog]

Anyone who thinks Met Life is aesthetically or functionally nicer than Atlanta Dallas Minnesota Seattle Pittsburgh the remodeled Arrowhead has never been there and is just being a trolling a-hole. 

We have one of the ugliest stadiums in the world. 

Which would be fine if we were in Islamabad or Venezuela or Rwanda or Yemen or Albania. 

We’re New York F*cking City. 

Pittsburgh Pennsylvania has a nicer stadium than New York City. Seats 75,000.

Think about that. And  if you’ve never been there, please stop with your stupid comments. 

[batman10023]

22 hours ago, slats said:

No, it really would’ve been brilliant. Right next to a convention center that’s already too small for anything meaningful. It would’ve been Manhattan’s premier venue. And what’s bigger than a premier venue in Manhattan, NYC? Oh, nothing would’ve been bigger than that. 

I don’t believe stadiums are a good use of prime real estate. 

[Embrace the Suck]

11 hours ago, SAR I said:

A Manhattan stadium would have completely frozen out every last vestige of the Shea Stadium blue collar uneducated offspring.

[Eaton Beaver]

15 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you!!!

As someone who worked on the WSS project (I offered my professional services as a volunteer) I can tell you for a fact that NYC has a dearth of convention space and the stadium and the resultant PSLs and they way were being discussed would have been revolutionary.  

But the fact that it didn’t go forward was not the Johnson’s fault but rather the Dolan’s and crooked politicians    So IMO we have to give Jets ownership a pass on that one  

 

Didn't the crooked politicians include both Mario Cuomo and his son Andrew who were playing the game against both sides to profit Andrew?

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Anyone who thinks Met Life is aesthetically or functionally nicer than Atlanta Dallas Minnesota Seattle Pittsburgh the remodeled Arrowhead has never been there and is just being a trolling a-hole. 

We have one of the ugliest stadiums in the world. 

Which would be fine if we were in Islamabad or Venezuela or Rwanda or Yemen or Albania. 

We’re New York F*cking City. 

Pittsburgh Pennsylvania has a nicer stadium than New York City. Seats 75,000.

Think about that. And  if you’ve never been there, please stop with your stupid comments. 

Anyone who thinks the aesthetics of a football stadium matter is just being a MetLife hater for the sake of being a MetLife hater.  Because that's the forum narrative.  That's the fashionable thing to do.  The fact that we are #2 in the NFL in attendance in crap years like 5-11 and 4-12 tells you that the stadium is doing its job splendidly.

These things all look the same from the inside and that's all that matters.  100 yards of field, endzone logos, tens of thousands of fans in home colors.  This is football.  Not a broadway show.  No trophies for set design.

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, batman10023 said:

I don’t believe stadiums are a good use of prime real estate. 

Think about the abundance of 20,000 to 80,000 seat facilities New York Metro has already:

Madison Square Garden
Prudential Center
Barclays Center
Nassau Colosseum
Izod Center
Red Bull Stadium
Arthur Ashe Stadium
Yankee Stadium
Citi Field
MetLife Stadium

249,000 seats isn't enough!  We need one more!  WSS!  Guaranteed 365 days of use, all those concerts, all those WWE events, the NCAA tournament, oh what a crime was committed on the citizens of New York City!  Jets were screwed!  I'm a victim!

Shut up already, all of you.

SAR I

[TuscanyTile2]

12 hours ago, SAR I said:

The cosmetics of a stadium never won or lost a football game.  And Jets fans?  Grandeur?  LOL, these aren't Rangers fans Peace Frog.  They don't live on Park Avenue and drive BMW's. 

Hmm, do we know anyone on this forum who does drive a BMW?  Because clearly we need people like that to add to the "grandeur" of our fanbase.  We should only be so blessed to have fans like that!

[TuscanyTile2]

7 hours ago, SAR I said:

Anyone who thinks the aesthetics of a football stadium matter is just being a MetLife hater for the sake of being a MetLife hater.  Because that's the forum narrative.  That's the fashionable thing to do.  The fact that we are #2 in the NFL in attendance in crap years like 5-11 and 4-12 tells you that the stadium is doing its job splendidly.

These things all look the same from the inside and that's all that matters.  100 yards of field, endzone logos, tens of thousands of fans in home colors.  This is football.  Not a broadway show.  No trophies for set design.

SAR I

This is a football stadium for 2 franchises, not just 1.  For $1.6B we should've at least gotten something that was at least architecturally impressive.  And it's not like it was built in NYC where land is super expensive either so that excuse is out the door.  MetLife stadium (while perfectly functional) is a major disappointment when these points are considered.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is a football stadium for 2 franchises, not just 1.  For $1.6B we should've at least gotten something that was at least architecturally impressive.  And it's not like it was built in NYC where land is super expensive either so that excuse is out the door.  MetLife stadium (while perfectly functional) is a major disappointment when these points are considered.

"Why did the Giants and Jets build this $2.0B facility?  Retractable roof?  Who needs it?  I liked the cold weather games.  A facade that looks like a glass Christmas ornament?  What, are they trying to win some architecture trophy so the Johnson's and Mara's can show off photos at the country club?  All I know is that I paid $95 for my upper deck seats in Giants Stadium and now they want $150.  F this pretty stadium.  Give me back Giants Stadium, there was nothing wrong with it.  And then give me back my lower ticket prices.  I'm never going back to Bentley Motors Stadium At The Land Of The Meadows again."

Get it?  You can't have it both ways.  You can't have 2019 Jerry World Design and 2008 Giants Stadium Dump ticket prices.  The Jets and Giants are hard-pressed to get 2008 ticket prices right now, it's more like 1985 in the upper deck.

SAR I

[The Crusher]

12 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Anyone who thinks Met Life is aesthetically or functionally nicer than Atlanta Dallas Minnesota Seattle Pittsburgh the remodeled Arrowhead has never been there and is just being a trolling a-hole. 

We have one of the ugliest stadiums in the world. 

Which would be fine if we were in Islamabad or Venezuela or Rwanda or Yemen or Albania. 

We’re New York F*cking City. 

Pittsburgh Pennsylvania has a nicer stadium than New York City. Seats 75,000.

Think about that. And  if you’ve never been there, please stop with your stupid comments. 

Albania looked like Albany because my reading glasses slid down my face. Thought it was a pretty peculiar  grouping. 

[Jetsfan80]

17 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Albania looked like Albany because my reading glasses slid down my face. Thought it was a pretty peculiar  grouping. 

And I thought Rwanda looked like Rochester.

@Pac

[section314]

14 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

No I don't think the most important metric is the number of seats.  As for the inside, MetLife(less) stadium has obstructed view seats in the mezzanine!  Poles are in the way!  The Roman Coliseum was built 2000 years ago with no obstructed views!

They also put a much better product on the field.?

[BettyBoop]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

They also put a much better product on the field.?

Yeah, the Lions were pretty good back then!

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

"Why did the Giants and Jets build this $2.0B facility?  Retractable roof?  Who needs it?  I liked the cold weather games.  A facade that looks like a glass Christmas ornament?  What, are they trying to win some architecture trophy so the Johnson's and Mara's can show off photos at the country club?  All I know is that I paid $95 for my upper deck seats in Giants Stadium and now they want $150.  F this pretty stadium.  Give me back Giants Stadium, there was nothing wrong with it.  And then give me back my lower ticket prices.  I'm never going back to Bentley Motors Stadium At The Land Of The Meadows again."

Get it?  You can't have it both ways.  You can't have 2019 Jerry World Design and 2008 Giants Stadium Dump ticket prices.  The Jets and Giants are hard-pressed to get 2008 ticket prices right now, it's more like 1985 in the upper deck.

SAR I

If we weren’t going to get something architecturally interesting hen why did the cost get to $1.6B (or more)?   Sounds like they pissrd away a lot of money.   I’m guessing they’re overcharging their customers for this waste  

[Sperm Edwards]

On 6/15/2019 at 3:07 PM, Jet Nut said:

Except his brother, no matter how you look at it, luck or otherwise has done everything right.  Other than firing Macc when he fired Bowles.  Hard to seriously complain about CJ, from his handling of the kneel down fiasco the NFL created to approving the trade up to 3 and ultimately landing Darnold to JDouglas.  I wanted Gase, almost all here didnt, we'll see how that one ultimately works itself out.

Refresh my memory, who did the Jets tamper with?  Not Branch, that was a NE ball breaking move filing tampering charges that went nowhere.

I agree, get lucky with a hire, youre a genius.  The hire falls on his face, like Bowles youre an idiot.  When he hired Rex and we went to back to back AFCCG he should have gotten accolades but this is NY.  When it fell apart he went back to being clueless.  How it works here.  He hired respected HOF type GMs to help with a GM and HC search and both recommendations fell short.  He gets blamed, what can you do?  Happens but really does following the recommendations of Wolf and Casserly make you a clueless idiot?  And if the hires worked out like everyone hoped the same clueless idiot, operating exactly the same is a brilliant winner.  How it goes for some.  The hires havent worked, i agree but the process was handled right.  

Well we disagree on the "he's done everything right" by a long shot. He got lucky a few times. He approved a signing of Kirk Cousins before he "approve" a trade-up to #3, and before that he "approved" drafting a safety instead of the most prolific young QB in history, wasting another season or two in the process, however much we like Darnold. He's overseen nothing but 4 and 5 win seasons so far, giving Bowles and Macc extensions when they should have been fired. The cherry on top is his own admission that he wasn't watching any of this crap until this spring (seemingly from Gase complaining about the GM after arriving). If we weren't the only ones in the bidding, he'd also have contract-term'd himself out of a GM (in the same way he and his recently-extended GM turned off their first choice in head coaches).

He's done everything right in the same way anyone succeeds despite poor judgment. 

As far as Woody, what he should have done was hired someone else to make the decisions and stick around to see those decisions through; not hiring a firm temporarily, and definitely not a former GM to recommend hiring his underling of 15 years, who it seems was maybe about to get fired as head scout, and who had garnered serious GM interest from nobody (other than by Casserly's recommendation).

I'm happy with good results however they occur, but success the team has had - particularly the way things have happened of late under Chris Johnson - were not because either was such a great owner. More like despite it. 

You can disagree, which is fine; we don't have to agree on anything (let alone everything). 

[batman10023]

14 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

14 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

 

except for the ones who married well.

[whodeawhodat]

17 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Lots of extraneous words for rudimentary  sophistry. 

I’m sure you’ve fooled a lot of folks here which might make you feel better but your premise and schtick is obvious. 

Great uniforms though. 

you give him far too much credit, he has fooled almost no one. the occasional new guy will bite and soon realize their mistake.

[UntouchableCrew]

On 6/12/2019 at 3:10 PM, slats said:

I'm never gonna like the separate but equal structure. If the head coach is more important, then make the head coach the boss and have the personnel guy work for him. Or, if you wanna have those two positions being equals, then have a President of Football Operations who oversees the whole thing rather than some random billionaire who doesn't know his ass from a football. 

And this is all relative. Sure, if you're Belichick and Caserio, the head coach holds all the juice. But what if you're Dorsey and Kitchens? Should they be on equal footing? 

Bottom line is that a head coach needs to win today and the GM is looking at the long term. Unless those two guys are on the exact same page, and maybe the same paragraph, there are going to be differences. And differences can lead to backstabbing (read: Gase/Maccagnan). 

This is how I feel.

Look, Mac and Bowles weren't on the same page and Gase and Douglas seem like they are. Obviously a huge difference. I still think intrinsically this type of structure (where the buck doesn't stop with one or the other) inevitably leads to conflicts and infighting.

[section314]

2 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

Yeah, the Lions were pretty good back then!

Was the last time they really had that killer instinct.

[Peace Frog]

11 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

you give him far too much credit, he has fooled almost no one. the occasional new guy will bite and soon realize their mistake.

Well, he got me!

[BettyBoop]

46 minutes ago, section314 said:

Was the last time they really had that killer instinct.

I believe so

[Embrace the Suck]

4 hours ago, batman10023 said:

except for the ones who married well.

Those men aren't uneducated. Any man that marries up deserves an honorary PHD. I don't know physics or something.

[jgb]

On 6/16/2019 at 11:04 PM, Peace Frog said:

Been to all 3. 

Interiorly superior to Met Life by a massive margin. 

Any of those could have been built in NYC and seated 85,000. 

The WSS was a 75k-85k seat monument to the grandeur of NYC. 

Please stop with the non sense. 

Met Life is fine. 

It’s a perfectly fine functional stadium. 

Its an architectural abomination. 

And stop with the low class insults. 

You have no idea. 

Give me championship football and I’m cool to watch it in the polo grounds 

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well we disagree on the "he's done everything right" by a long shot. He got lucky a few times. He approved a signing of Kirk Cousins before he "approve" a trade-up to #3, and before that he "approved" drafting a safety instead of the most prolific young QB in history, wasting another season or two in the process, however much we like Darnold. He's overseen nothing but 4 and 5 win seasons so far, giving Bowles and Macc extensions when they should have been fired. The cherry on top is his own admission that he wasn't watching any of this crap until this spring (seemingly from Gase complaining about the GM after arriving). If we weren't the only ones in the bidding, he'd also have contract-term'd himself out of a GM (in the same way he and his recently-extended GM turned off their first choice in head coaches).

He's done everything right in the same way anyone succeeds despite poor judgment. 

As far as Woody, what he should have done was hired someone else to make the decisions and stick around to see those decisions through; not hiring a firm temporarily, and definitely not a former GM to recommend hiring his underling of 15 years, who it seems was maybe about to get fired as head scout, and who had garnered serious GM interest from nobody (other than by Casserly's recommendation).

I'm happy with good results however they occur, but success the team has had - particularly the way things have happened of late under Chris Johnson - were not because either was such a great owner. More like despite it. 

You can disagree, which is fine; we don't have to agree on anything (let alone everything). 

I'll be quick here, we've killed this and now we're into fantasy posts where the owner gets blamed for his GM not picking a day two QB in the top of the draft?  We need to get off the Mahomes nonsense, he wasn't a real pick where we were picking.  KC took a huge risk and it paid off, i get it. No one other than Jets fans cry every day that they should have picked him.  Its embarrassing how twisted this nonsense is getting.  Wow, we should have drafted R Wilson too, how did he pass on his 3xs?  SHlt, we passed on Brady SIX times, doofuses. 

Then trading up to the 3rd spot, a move also made by the GM, using your logic should be a win for the owner but nope, all good moves are "LUCKY"  Nice way to debate.  That along with the idea that now that things are looking up in spite of him.  SO basically no chance, no matter what that you will give him an ounce of credit, because. 

All of this is a new way to rip the owner.  A owner hires the GM.  A owner, as has been beaten to death here isn't a personnel guy.  But now, when its convenient the owner is to blame for every failed pick?  LOL really.  

But at least we're in agreement, theres nothing saying we have to agree.  And thats perfectly fine, actually makes it more interesting. 

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I'll be quick here, we've killed this and now we're into fantasy posts where the owner gets blamed for his GM not picking a day two QB in the top of the draft?  We need to get off the Mahomes nonsense, he wasn't a real pick where we were picking.  KC took a huge risk and it paid off, i get it. No one other than Jets fans cry every day that they should have picked him.  Its embarrassing how twisted this nonsense is getting.  Wow, we should have drafted R Wilson too, how did he pass on his 3xs?  SHlt, we passed on Brady SIX times, doofuses. 

Then trading up to the 3rd spot, a move also made by the GM, using your logic should be a win for the owner but nope, all good moves are "LUCKY"  Nice way to debate.  That along with the idea that now that things are looking up in spite of him.  SO basically no chance, no matter what that you will give him an ounce of credit, because. 

All of this is a new way to rip the owner.  A owner hires the GM.  A owner, as has been beaten to death here isn't a personnel guy.  But now, when its convenient the owner is to blame for every failed pick?  LOL really.  

But at least we're in agreement, theres nothing saying we have to agree.  And thats perfectly fine, actually makes it more interesting. 

Disagree with all of this except the last part   

[Sperm Edwards]

19 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

This is how I feel.

Look, Mac and Bowles weren't on the same page and Gase and Douglas seem like they are. Obviously a huge difference. I still think intrinsically this type of structure (where the buck doesn't stop with one or the other) inevitably leads to conflicts and infighting.

Yeah the nice thing about 2 new hires with 3 and 5 more guaranteed years before lame duck status sets in, is they can both take the similar long term view. I think that term gets overstated, though; long term isn’t and shouldn’t be longer than a year (2 max) anyway. If it takes you 3+ years to turn around a franchise - not just talking about a single all-in season followed by still more garbage/purge years - then you’re doing it wrong and are no better than casual fans armed with internet access.

There’s enough talent available, in what’s inherited (even if that inherited roster is thin), plus overpriced FAs, plus trades plus the draft, to at worst be a sustainable .500+ team still on the upswing, if not a 10+ win team outright, within a year or two.

A trio of 4-5 win seasons doesn’t mean you’re doing it “the right way” — it means you suck at team building. Even a bad HC like Bowles (or Herm or freaking Kotite) was able to coach a team to a .500 record if there was ample talent on the roster.

[phill1c]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 10:33 AM, Patriot Killa said:

Dawg... you screamed fire macc for 5 years.

Um, that must have been someone else. I thought he was making progress. I thought the overall talent level increased. Not the usual sh*t show. In fact, I think he had his best offseason this year.