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The Baker Mayfield and His Mouth Thread

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4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Surprised about Monken as well.  I mean, it's early so we can't really judge how this will go but let's not forget that Monken was relatively high on the Jets list of coaching candidates.  If I remember correctly, the Jets seemed to want Matt Rhule as HC and then push Monken on him on OC.  I may be wrong about that but it's just another indication of how the process was being run under Maccagnan for that coaching search.....was he likely looking for some subservient patsies and potential Yes men at the cost of accepting average coaches?

What the Browns players liked last year about Kitchens when he took over the offense is that he took input from everyone and tried the things they asked to try. I imagine Monken is coming in with, "this is my offense, and you're gonna run it." I'm not surprised that there's a little friction. 

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7 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Not sure Kitchens has the status to control this crowd... When Phil Jackson did this in LA, he had status of coaching the greatest ever at that time... There are so many things that you deal with as a HC that you don't deal with as coordinator...

Kitchens was barely a coordinator, he started last season as their RBs coach. I agree with you that this team of, shall we say, personalities probably would've been better off being led by a more seasoned coach. I was actually surprised that they didn't retain Williams. I think he's better equipped to keep that team on track. 

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7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Public sentiment...based on what? The media is driving that. Not Browns fans talking about how they're winning it all. 

Browns fans confidence has reached a perfect 100% after the draft

28

Cleveland is the place to be right now if you’re a football fan.

By Chris Pokorny@DawgsByNature  

Ever since QB Baker Mayfield started playing well last year, the confidence among Browns fans regarding the direction of the team has been high. It has been especially high since the end of the season, where it was 94%. It reached 97% through both free agency and prior to the draft. Now, with the 2019 NFL Draft in the books, we have reached a new high: a perfect 100% of fans are confident in the direction of the team!

 

cleveland_.jpg

It wasn’t the most exciting draft for the Browns, since they didn’t have a first-round pick. But the team still got a cornerback with a first-round grade mid-way through the second round, and added a bunch of thumpers in the later rounds who can make an immediate difference on special teams and in defensive sub-packages.

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6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

This isnt surprising. Why? Because they won 8 games in 3 years....7 of them coming just last year from that rookie. Of course they're at a all time high in confidence when you win 1 game in 2 season Slats. 

They went from one win in two years laughingstocks to pretty damn cocky in record time. It's not surprising that some outsiders might want to take them down a notch. 

7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Look, we're 3 pages in. We all know why Jets fans are even talking about this non story. 

When all is said and done, I'm sure you'll have a page-worth of posts in this thread all by yourself. 

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5 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Seven pages of the same wrong take. And if the story is about the Jets it's twice that long and blames nobody but the reporter for obviously pushing an insidious agenda by accurately publishing direct quotes and stuff.

This is not hard. It would be one thing if Mayfield was siding against a teammate in a contract dispute. That almost never actually happens because it is so universally understood that it simply isn't done and anybody who forgets it long enough to open his mouth gets swiftly and righteously annihilated for it. This situation is a completely different story. Johnson isn't holding out for a contract. He already got one, last year, when he would have been a free agent this year, and  as soon as he got paid he immediately turned around and started pushing for a trade.

Duke Johnson is not Antonio Brown. He's a third string running back making 5 per and saving tread for a third contract. He was very nearly a cap cut as it is. This is only about making his money to play against the team rather than for the team. And you goofballs are seriously suggesting that Mayfield is obligated to support him in this endeavor. Real quick, we're still for winning and against losing, right?

I'm roughly an 11 on a scale from 0 to commie as far as company men and management deals and crossing picket lines. Drew Brees and Gene Upshaw and Ozzie Newsome can all get boned by the devil in hell forever. Mayfield telling Johnson to eat turds has nothing to do with that stuff.

Some of his teammates disagree, taking him aside to explain that to him (away from the media) and now he's probably not gonna do that again. Because he shouldn't. 

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6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

OR, you can provide that link showing Baker trashing him over money.

The man’s desire to be traded is 100% about playing and being paid as a result, and also none of Mayfield’s business. 

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2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Johnson's pay is indeed none of Mayfield's business. 

And I havent been shown anything that would suggest that he was talking about Duke and his money. Just provide a link of that conversation. That would clarify everything and show that this isnt about salt and just hanging onto any negative narrative...similar to anything else folks like to hang onto. 

 

 

I’m not interested enough. Also, I cook with salt, but never add it to foods after it’s cooked. 

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7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He walks in because his career numbers are so much better than Jets fans will admit to and because he won 2 SBs.

This isn't hard, when you're top ten in every category that counts for a QB along with being the MVP of your two SB wins, youre in the HOF.

Then again, there are actually people, Jet fans no less, that have no idea how good Joe Namath was so....

He gets in for the two Super Bowls, and that's it. Without those championships, he's basically been an average QB. Rivers has been a better QB, but without the championships, he doesn't get in, IMHO. 

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46 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I’ve been hearing and seeing a lot of HoF talk for Rivers this offseason across media outlets, and it bothers me.

At no time did he ever scare me, nor was he ever the best in the league. He doesn’t have any individual records, and hasn’t even sniffed a super bowl. The numbers he’s compiled look nice overall, until you realize that Stafford has also compiled big numbers simple because of the era and style that they play in. Combine that with the fact that Rivers had some of the most talented teams in the 00s and doesn’t even have a single conference championship to show for them, and it really puts a damper on his career. He’s certainly a great QB, but he’s not HoF exceptional.

Side note: Rivers and Matt Ryan are the two QBs who people have seemed to love for years but I’ve never had any confidence in. I can’t remember a single time I picked either of them to win a big playoff game. Even in the SB when Ryan played a strong first half, I kept worrying that he’d find a way to f it up. Sure enough much to every Jets fans chagrin, he came through on that front. The WC game against Rivers in Rex’s first year was the only Jets playoff game that I remember enjoying without trepidation just because I was so confident in Rivers’ ability to play down in big moments. These are not traits that are worthy of the HoF.

I agree all around. Never felt bad missing out on Ryan. Never believed in Rivers. No way Rivers deserves to get in a HoF that Klecko isn't in. 

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13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Rivers is 7th all time in AY/A and and 8th in passer rating, and is going to end his career in the top five for yards and TDs. Klecko not being in the Hall is a travesty, but come on.

QBs are judged by championships. You can debate whether or not that's fair, but I think it is. Rivers is a compiler with a losing post-season record. I'd vote against him. All those positions in the record books will be surpassed over time as the rules continue to favor QBs, and QBs regularly play into their 40s. 

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2 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I wouldn't consider Rivers a compiler. He puts up very good yearly numbers, and his averages are spectacular (as evidenced by his top 10 passer rating). He has also led in every major statistical category at least once including volume and averaged stats. Eli Manning is a compiler. 

Eli's a 2x champion. Rivers has been a part of middling teams most of his career and has a losing post-season record. He's Kirk Cousins putting up pretty numbers and going 8-7-1. Give Rivers Eli's rings and, yeah, he goes in. But he doesn't have the hardware. 

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2 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I think it comes down to if you believe that 2 rings makes up for Rivers blowing him away in every single category, even career wins when Eli has played over a season worth of games more than him.

One could argue that with him on the verge of a losing career record, and comparing his numbers to others of his era that Eli is just a modern day Jim Plunkett. 

I'd take a modern day Plunkett over Rivers. I remember dreaming about Vinny Testaderde being our Jim Plunkett. Big difference is that Eli won his first championship in his 20's for the team that drafted him, not at 33 on his third team. 

I get that Rivers has dramatically better numbers than Eli. But, yes, I'd put Eli ahead of Rivers for HoF contention based on the rings. Rivers hasn't elevated his team to that level, and has mostly been a part of <10 win teams over his career, despite his impressive statistics. 

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37 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Rivers has been a Peyton like postseason performer but he's been a top notch consistent QB over 16 games a year.  The truly best do it in both reg and postseason but doing it consistently each year over 16 games is more impressive than having a good few games in January where your D dominates making it easy for you.

Top notch performers over 16 games a year don't go a decade between 10+ win seasons. Rivers has also led the league in interceptions a couple times. He's had a nice career, but never won the big one. He's not a HoF'er. 

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5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I don't believe he should be a Hall of famer either, my point is he was much better than Eli.

Rivers 118-90 as a starter, Eli 116-114.  He has more wins than Eli despite 22 less starts.

I've already stated in this thread -a couple times- that Rivers has been the better QB of the two. On the point of the HoF, though, Eli is ahead (IMHO) because of the hardware. No matter how you choose to rationalize them, the man still has two rings, and two Super Bowl MVPs. 

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14 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

There are plenty of "experts" that say Eli is not a HOFer or that he still has a lot of work to do.  Does that matter? I have my educated opinion, you can attack me all you want but at some please post an argument why Eli Manning is one of the greatest QBs of all time.

There have been 53 Super Bowls and Eli was the MVP of two of them. In one, his wild card team beat the then 18-0 Tom Brady Patriots. However aggressively you want to rationalize against whether or not he was worthy, you can't take that away from him. Without the Super Bowls, he's not HoF worthy. I agree with you about most of his rather middling career. But he has those Super Bowls. Quick glance at the list of Super Bowl MVPs, and I only count four other players who have won two or more. He's going into the Hall, despite your kicking and screaming. 

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So 60,000 or so yards, 400 TDs and longevity, top 10 in every relevant QB ranking, arent HOF numbers? 

I agree, his career seems more ordinary until you not only look at his numbers but those two SB rings

Without the Super Bowls, he wouldn't have the longevity. The Super Bowls are the only reason he's in the conversation. 

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2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He'd be the first QB in the Hall without a single all pro selection, he'd also be the first QB in the hall who has never led in any major category.

Then that's what he'll be. 

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6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

His numbers are in the ballpark of Rivers in every catagory and Rivers is in the conversation to go into the HOF without a single ring.

Not really. Rivers' career passer rating is 11 points higher than Eli's. Rivers bests him in every category except for total yards, but Rivers takes him on ypa by a large margin, 7.8 to 7.0. A QB with a career passer rating of 84.1 in this era isn't sniffing the HoF without having those championships on his resume. 

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10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Dont really think anyone points to a flawed QBR as a measuring stick.  

I think the difference in their stats are ballpark.  Theyre both top 10 in all QB categories that count which is why both are in the discussion for the HOF.  Elis is an easier sell because those top 10 numbers come with 2 SB wins.  Something Rivers cant point to

It's their passer rating system, not mine. They look at it. The two players are that far apart because Rivers completes passes at a higher rate for more TDs, more ypa, and fewer ints. Rivers has 14 more TDs on nearly 1000 fewer attempts. No one is talking about Eli for the HoF without the championships. He's simply not in the discussion. 

Oh, and for longevity, four years into Eli's career people were describing him with the bust word. His career comp% at that point was below 55%, his ypa was under 6.5, he threw a bunch of ints; he was a below average QB. If Eli had finished his fourth season, a year in which he led the NFL in interceptions, with his third straight 0-1 in the playoffs instead of 4-0 and a Super Bowl MVP award, the Giants are probably looking for his replacement the following year. No way he compiles those top ten career stats without that first Super Bowl.  

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Giants have loved Eli from day 1.  Accorsi did everything he could to get him.  He wasnt going anywhere, especially with Accorsi around.

Ernie Accorsi was no longer with the Giants in 2007. 

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6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

It is important to understand, I'm not trying to make a case for Eli as a top QB.  I just said that I think given his numbers and SBs hes going into the HOF.  Where nyjunc wants to argue that hes not and doesnt deserve to go in.

His numbers aren't HoF worthy, but the Super Bowls are. For example, Andy Dalton has a better comp%, TD%, ypa, and lower int% than Eli, but there's not anyone, anywhere suggesting he has HoF caliber stats. 

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

As I said, hes top 10 in every single meaningful stat to judge a QB by.   I think thats enough as much as I dont like him or the Giants. 

Dalton has basically the same Y/A etc.  Over half the number of years.

Again, I'm not making a case for him being a top QB but with his numbers and 2 SBs hes going into the HOF.  I dont see how someone who is top 10 in every QB catagory over a career as long as his doesnt get in.  No matter how much we dont want to admit it

Thats it

I also expect him to get in, but only because of the Super Bowls. Without them, he's not even considered. 

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Seriously considering locking this thread out of both boredom and exhaustion. 

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23 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

And he’s a big fat Scottish tough guy too, right? 

Too funny. 

 

13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Euro pussy.  Talk and run, like wars

If you guys wanna talk **** about someone, maybe consider using JetNation's PM'ing feature. This isn't cool. 

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2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

No disrespect but I’ve tried to be civil with the dude but he seems to be the Debbie Downer on most of these threads and if I respond he dumps on me and then quickly went to Ignore. And then went to Ignore on others  who take issue with his downer persona. 

I will ignore a lot. I don’t put folks on Ignore. 

Apologies. 

Let me know if I should go elsewhere. 

 

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

 

Same here, I've tried.  He ignores me and that's fine.  Now he's telling others to put us on ignore.  I wasn't talking to him.  

Euro comment was just busting balls, Not really his, he claims were all on ignore.  He dishes it out well enough, he does it to you... 

Ill leave him alone.  

So here's the thing, I get into it with @Warfish all the time, myself. But what I do is quote him or, as I've done here, tag him, so he's aware that I've posted in response to him. That's the way to do it. Making references to him without doing that is, IMHO, cowardly, and, as I said, simply not cool. 

I'm doing this publicly as a warning to everyone. This sort of behavior is ban-worthy. If you can't have a civil discussion, have no discussion. If you wanna talk about someone, "behind their back," do it in PMs. Like I'm doing in the mod lounge about you two. :) 

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4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He’d have had a better year than Darnold did. 

Fun fact: last season Mayfield was 23, 2 years older and miles better than Darnold. 

What is it that Darnold does better than Mayfield?

Arm strength: Mayfield

Accuracy: Mayfield

Decision making (on field): Mayfield

Track record: Mayfield

Mayfield had nearly twice the college experience that Darnold had. It's no surprise that he had a better rookie year. He's talented. But I don't understand giving him the edge in arm strength, accuracy, or decision making going forward. I look forward to seeing how their careers play out. Sam's now my QB, and I'd bet on him as the bigger, stronger dude with the higher ceiling. We'll see. 

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8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

One last word.

Calling people azzholes, is that cool too?

I mean, wasnt even part of the debate but had to come in calling people names...

Done

No, it's not cool. 

But you referring to Warfish as "warminnow" randomly, without quoting or tagging him, is both childish and cowardly. I found those posts days later and left them there, but they certainly helped lead me to calling you out today. If you can recognize the problem, you should be able to recognize how to not be a part of it. 

We don't like banning people here. It's not common. But attacking other members here without quoting or tagging them to notify and allow them to defend their positions is just wrong and won't be tolerated. If you insist on continuing to do such a thing, you will be given some time off. I'd prefer not to do that. 

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19 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He gets the edge in those because he has those traits over Darnold. He was statistically better in his first season at OSU than Darnold was in his best college season. And for all of Darnold looking more prototypical, he is not as good.

I want Sam to be great and I think he’ll be plenty good to win in this league, but I can’t buy that he’ll be better than the guy that is elite in all relevant measurements of quarterbacking.

As the 2018 draft approached, I expected Baker Mayfield to be the Jets' QB. I not only accepted that, but welcomed it. Check my profile here, me and Baker share a birthday. I would've LOVED for him to be the Jets' QB. I don't want you to think for a second that I don't like him. I like him a lot. 

But, again, Mayfield had nearly twice the college experience that Darnold had, and played on a team with better talent last year. He's got better talent around him this year, too. We'll see who has the better career. I suspect that Sam was the top QB prospect for over a year before that draft for a reason. 

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18 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

@Warfish has me on Ignore and has made several very very public announcements about putting me on Ignore and has suggested others put me on Ignore. I’ve tried to engage him but...you know...Ignore. 

If you feel my behavior of engaging him in civil but contentious discourse here then him running away and putting me on Ignore and prompting others to put me and others that disagree with him on Ignore is on ME, then by all means feel free to ban me.  

Would be really weird but I guess whatever you decide. 

I do not want to ban anyone. I enjoy most of your content. But ridiculing another member here without quoting or tagging him is just, simply, wrong. If you know he has you on ignore, ignore him, too. It's pretty easy. 

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3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

As I said, I’ve tried to engage @Warfish but he has run away and he has continued to call for others to ignore me and those who disagree with him. 

If I am going to be called out in absentia with no repercussions  I would trust that a similar response would be appropriate.  

I don’t want to be banned but I also don’t appreciate pejorative comments from a dude that has me on Ignore with no care about a similar penalty. 

I feel like I'm aware of Warfish's posts, and I'm not seeing what you say you're seeing. If you have examples, link them and PM me. 

If you have the guy on ignore, what call outs are you seeing in absentia? It should be none. Just like you should stop referring to him once you decide to click the ignore feature. 

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