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The Baker Mayfield and His Mouth Thread

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3 hours ago, Grandy said:

Giants average attendance: 76,940 

Browns average attendance: 65,765

He's getting obnoxious. 

To be fair that's paid attendance not actual attendance.  Very few of the Giants games see actual attendance of that number.  

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

The point is not who draws more, the point is Baker said something that is total BS. NYG fans come out to the stadium and care deeply for the team. 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I come from a family of Giants fans, only my brother wasn't  upset they traded OBJ and his reasoning was that this will get us back to the SB. Baker was totally talking out of his rear end

Giant fans think Eli is a Hall of famer, it's hard to take them seriously. Odell was a special talent who was frustrated playing with a bad QB.  It was a mistake to move him.  They would have had 2 experienced top players on their O this year and moving forward.

Baker was off only because pretty much every team struggles to attract fans when they stink.  Last year Cleveland had optimism with Baker so he didn't see the empty seats they had a year earlier or teams like the Giants (and Jets) have seen during these lean years.

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2 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

It’s hard to take anyone seriously who doesn’t think the 2 time SB MVP who’s career stats make Joe Namath’s look like a joke doesn’t belong in the HOF.

The ones we shouldn't take seriously are the ones that compare numbers of a QB in this era vs a QB in the 60s and 70s. Joe was at least great for a few years, Eli was never great.

The hall is for all time greats, Eli isn't even a great if his generation.  He's a compiler that ride 2 great defensive runs to SBs and won MVP awards he didn't deserve.

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

1.  I'll bet anything Eli makes it into the HOF

2.  What does optimism have to do. With seeing empty seats?

3.  Jets won fewer games than the Giants, fewer than the Browns.  Outdrew both and were third in the NFL 

 

All facts, even Eli, no excuses please

 

If intelligent people are on the committee Eli won't even get close.  He doesn't deserve to even be in the discussion.

When fans are optimistic they show up more.

We have a much later capacity than the browns so we should outdraw them.  I don't buy those numbers though and actual fans in the seats were nowhere near 77,000

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12 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Referring to the fact Rosen and Brees were both traded from the team that drafted them. 

Brees was a free agent

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8 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Lol Eli isn’t an HOFer? Lol.

Two time SB MVP, beating the Pats twice in the SB and top 10 career QB numbers in almost every category. 

If Ben and Rivers are HOFers then Eli is a lock. 

Top 10 numbers because he's top 10 in attempts.  He's a compiler who has done most of his compiling in meaningless games.  He has earned only 2 pro bowls, never been on any all pro team, never led any major category other than INTs which he has done 3 times, he's led the Giants to missing the playoffs 8 of the last 10 seasons and by the end of this season he will be under .500 as a starting QB.

I think Rivers is also overrated but he's been to 8 pro bowls, been on 2 all pro teams, led the league in completions, comp %, yards, TDs and rating and is 28 games over .500 for his career compared to 2 for Eli.

It's not worth discussing Ben, he's so much better than Eli it's silly to discuss.

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6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I'll bet anything you want right now that Eli gets in.  And you whine and cry about the travesty of it all, posting meaningless stats that change and add nothing to the conversation.  Spinning as each counter comes in.  As in he doesn't even deserve to be in the conversation.  Yes, 2 SBs, 2 SB MVPs, top stats pretty much across the board, ridiculously long streak of not missing a game, etc, but not in the conversation.

Now back to more nonsense.  Why should the Giants outdraw the Browns by more than 10,000 per because of the stadium size?  This is nonsense given neither sells out every seat, not like the Browns ran out of seats.  Neither completely sold out.  That reasoning is totally wrong.

And how the hell, even if true, does it make the idea that Giants fans didn't come out to root but Browns fans did?  

 

He does not have top stats, he has good compiled numbers.  What do you not understand about not leading any major category other than INTs (THREE times), only earning 2 pro bowls, never making ANY all pro team.  That is where greatness stands out not because you led your O to 17 & 19 points to win 2 super bowls.

 

Don't the browns have a higher capacity sold than the Giants?  I couldn't care less about this browns- Giants thing by the way.  Both have good fanbases

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4 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I would guarantee Eli makes it to the HOF. 

It would be the biggest sham in the history of the hall, a total disgrace.  They have let undeserving players in before and they will again especially with that last name but he doesn't even belong in the discussion.  The Hall is supposed to be for the greatest players of all time, I have yet to see one person state a case why Eli is one of the greatest QBs of all time.  Because his D carried him to two SBs and he won MVPs he didn't deserve is not enough to get enshrined in the hall.

If he makes it he will be the ONLY QB to have never made a single all pro team, he will be the only 2 time QB champ that never led his O to at least 20 points in either SB.  

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2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Yeah first ballot really doesn’t mean anything. 

No one is saying he’s going into the wing with Montana or Unitas or Peyton or Marino or Elway or Otto Graham. 

But he’s getting a yellow jacket.

He’ll be in the wing with Bradshaw and Griese and Blanda and Dawson and the like. Probably all better QBs but a level below. 

Now watch some jerkoff research all of those guys and write chapter and verse why they all deserve it and Eli doesn’t. 

I love doing this 😂

Bradshaw: won a league MVP, led league in TDs, made 3 all pro teams, led O to over 30 pts in 2 different SBs while winning his 2 SB MVPs , 2nd team all decade team of the 70s, 56 games over .500 as a starter.  Eli never won a league MVP (never received a single vote), never made an all pro team, led his O to 17 & 19 pts in his 2 SB MVP years, Eli is 2 games over .500 as a starter.

Griese earned 8 pro bowls (Eli 2), made 5 all pro teams- multiple 1st team (Eli made zero), won a league MVP and player of the year award (Eli zero), led league in TDs and rating (Eli nope).

Blanda is not a fair comparison because he made it for his kicking as well but despite this he led league in completions 4 times, yards twice, TDs once, rating once, won multiple player of the year award- all things Eli never did. 

Dawson earned 7 pro bowls, all decade team for the 60s, made 5 all pro teams including multiple 1st team selections, led league in comp % 8 times, TDs 4 times, rating 6 times.

 

As you can obviously see Eli doesn't belong anywhere near these real hall of famers.

 

I love doing this.

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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So now its hes a compiler.  Gotcha  

I guess, you know because he played 15 seasons.  Makes sense.  We should penalize all of the tough as nails QB who have played in the league.

3,700 yards per on average.  Over 15 years.  What a fraud, LOL.

24 TDs, per on average.  16 INTs per.   Both compiled too?

7th ranked all time yardage numbers, same ranking for completions, with similar ranked passing attempts. Compiled?  Nope

9th most game winning drives, a favorite of yours

You need to get over your obsession, youre Giants envy is pointless, hes going into the HOF.  

Because he deserves to

 

 

 

It's not now it's always been that way.  He has nice compiled numbers but never leads in individual seasons, most of his seasons the last decade were over by October and he puts up meaningless numbers that impress folks that don't watch him play.

 

He's 6th all time in attempts, he should be top at least 6 in every category. He's never led any major category other than INTs 3 times, he's only earned 2 pro bowls, never made a single all pro team, never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points, led team to missing playoffs 8 of last 10 seasons, is only 2 games over .500 as a starter.

He's not a Hall of famer, he's a compiler that feasts on garbage time with big time talent around him.

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5 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Eli is going into the Hall of Fame. 

That dude has an irrational hate for Peyton, Eli and Namath. 

Pathological. 

That dude knows QBs and no matter how many times you guys want to make things up it doesn't change that.  

I knock Peyton in regards to Brady in the discussion for best of all time.

I knock namath because his career was overrated but be belongs in the hall because of what he meant to the game.

I knock Eli because he was never great and the Hall is for the greatest, it's not a lifetime participation award.

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12 minutes ago, slats said:

He gets in for the two Super Bowls, and that's it. Without those championships, he's basically been an average QB. Rivers has been a better QB, but without the championships, he doesn't get in, IMHO. 

He's a modern day Jim plunkett, plunkett for more for his 2 SB winning teams and he is not in the hall.

Without the D leading them to the championships he would have been an ex giant 7-8 years ago and would be a backup.  Instead he's lived off 2 good months of football and compiled numbers in meaningless games ever since

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26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He walks in because his career numbers are so much better than Jets fans will admit to and because he won 2 SBs.

This isn't hard, when you're top ten in every category that counts for a QB along with being the MVP of your two SB wins, youre in the HOF.

Then again, there are actually people, Jet fans no less, that have no idea how good Joe Namath was so....

Joe was actually great for a few years, Eli was never great.  His numbers look good compiled because he stayed healthy in this era where all the rules favor pass offense.  Greatness comes from being a top player year after year after year.  Brady is great, Brees great, his brother was great, Rodgers is great, etc... Eli was never great.  He's basically Vinny Testaverde with 2 SB wins thanks to his D.  He's actually less than Vinny because Vinny's '98 season was better than any Eli had and Vinny made an all pro team.

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I’ve been hearing and seeing a lot of HoF talk for Rivers this offseason across media outlets, and it bothers me.

At no time did he ever scare me, nor was he ever the best in the league. He doesn’t have any individual records, and hasn’t even sniffed a super bowl. The numbers he’s compiled look nice overall, until you realize that Stafford has also compiled big numbers simple because of the era and style that they play in. Combine that with the fact that Rivers had some of the most talented teams in the 00s and doesn’t even have a single conference championship to show for them, and it really puts a damper on his career. He’s certainly a great QB, but he’s not HoF exceptional.

Side note: Rivers and Matt Ryan are the two QBs who people have seemed to love for years but I’ve never had any confidence in. I can’t remember a single time I picked either of them to win a big playoff game. Even in the SB when Ryan played a strong first half, I kept worrying that he’d find a way to f it up. Sure enough much to every Jets fans chagrin, he came through on that front. The WC game against Rivers in Rex’s first year was the only Jets playoff game that I remember enjoying without trepidation just because I was so confident in Rivers’ ability to play down in big moments. These are not traits that are worthy of the HoF.

I think Rivers is very overrated but he's a million times better than Eli.  Ryan had a 28-3 lead in the SB, was it too much to ask his D to hold that lead?  Eli's D's never gave up more than 20 in the SB runs and never more than 17 in a SB.

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16 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

What are you talking about? I don't  like Eli and I don't like the Giants but the helmet catch is one of the most memorable  passes ever thrown in a SB. Don't  blame Eli for the WR making the catch 100x harder than it had to be, but he got the ball there and got it there under pressure. He also threw the winning TD pass to Plaxico. 

Eli also topped 3k yards many times in his career

He basically threw a hail Mary to Tyree.

16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

This might be the worst spin i've read here against a QB, that once again, almost everyone knows is going into the HOF.

Hes steady, in the top 10 statistically year in and year out, is going to end off top 5 in most categories and you think that he hasnt led enough times it changes anything?  

4 pro bowls

Never won without a D, weep, weep, weep.  

Only 2 games over .500.  Cant have that.  Hes responsible.  Just have to say, youre annoying for so many different reasons here.  But this Eli thing is crazy.  I want to recap your fine use of logic.  Didnt score enough in playoff wins, thats the worst line of thinking

Eli gets no credit for SB wins, its the D, coaching, whatever.

Dont make the playoffs, its Elis fault. 

Cant go on, once again youre embarrassing yourself, this is silly and as I said, I'll bet anything you want, right now, easy as can be, i say he going in, you will lose taking the other side.  

Like taking candy from a baby

Year in, year out in the top 10?  That's because year in and year out he's top 10 in attempts in mostly meaningless games accumulating garbage time numbers.

He should be top 10, if he was great he'd consistent be top 5 while leading categories now and then.  

15 seasons, here are his top 5 finishes:

Attempts 4

Yards 3

TDs 3

Rating ZERO

INTs 6(led three times)

Leading the league in a major category other than INTs (which he did three times)?  ZERO

He only earned 2 pro bowls, he made 2 more when multiple QBs dropped out and he was sent as a replacement.

ZERO all pro teams

He's only earned player of the week 4 times in my 15 seasons, for perspective Ryan Fitzpatrick has won that award 7 times (126 starts compared to 230 for Eli), Chad Pennington 6 times in just 81 starts.

It's not that he's never won without a D, most winning teams have good Ds.  He's never won without spectacular playoff defense.  He's only won playoff games in 2 postseasons and in those playoff wins his D never allowed more than 20 points.

Eli played well in both SB wins but without incredible D he doesn't get close to either SB.  He was a lot like Sanchez, the difference was Eli's D's stepped up in conference title games and SBs while Mark's did not.

I love how you go back to insulting me, you can't attack the argument so you attack me.

 

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49 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

The ONLY way he gets in .. the only argument. ... Is that he did make some clutch throws to beat what some would say was an unbeatable team in the freaking Super Bowl ... A feat similar to the Namath prediction that got him enshrined.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

He played well in both SB runs, he deserves credit for that but they won because of great D.  He doesn't deserve the hall based on 2 good months of football.

As far as Joe goes, he was great briefly but he meant so much to the growth of the game.  Eli doesn't have that, Joe may be the most important figure in pro football history.

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5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Which means nothing.  Only in your mind does how many points you score change a thing.  A SB win is a win, no matter how many points you needed to score.  

You take a premise, Eli doesn't belong in the HOF and look for stats to work backwards to convince people that those SBs didn't happen and shouldn't count for much.  

 

I have watched Eli play for 15 years, anyone that has watched him knows he's not an all time great.  He had great games and great moments but was never consistently great which is what you need to get to the Hall.

 

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The compiler line is a new piece of beauty.  Got to admit, no one anywhere believes this but go for it. 

It's not new, he's been compiling most of this last decade.  His teams are usually done by October and then he puts up "good numbers" to fool folks who don't watch him play.

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

How the F do you know that if the Giants D gave up more points that the Giants and Eli couldn't score more?  What kind of half assed logic are you still selling?  Opposing scored 17, SB doesn't count the same as others.  

Desperate times.....

He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20, that's a pretty incredible fact.

Let's look at Nick Foles MVP vs Eli's 2.

Foles in 1 game led his O to 41 points, Eli in 2 led Os to combined 36.

Foles in 1 game saw his D allow 33, Eli in 2 saw his D's allow 31 combined.

Foles in 1 game threw 3 TDs (and caught one), Eli threw 3 combined in 2 games.

Foles was a real MVP, Eli's MVPs were jokes because by default the QB usually gets it.

 

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On 7/20/2019 at 9:29 AM, Jet Nut said:

Foles and any other side story you drag in to discredit Eli does.

Foles isnt Eli.  He had a single story book SB run and another year where his numbers were great until injured.

Elis has had a 15 year run.  One season, no matter who you drag up, isnt a 15 year career with two SBs.  Plenty have one.

Foles lone SB was better than Eli's combined two.  He led that win, be had to lead his O to 41 points, his D allowed the most points in SB history to a losing team.

Foles also had a season better than any Eli has had when he threw 27 TDs and 2 INTs.  In Eli's career his thrown at least 2 INTs in a GAME 42 times, he's thrown MORE than 2 INTs in a game 22 times.

Eli's 15 year run is mostly average play staying healthy while putting up garbage time numbers to accumulate totals to make people who don't watch him think he's a Hall of famer.

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On 7/20/2019 at 10:34 AM, More Cowbell said:

The assertion that it was a hail mary pass is ridiculous because it came down right where the reciever was, he didn't  just throw it into a group of players which is what a haol mary is and hope for a llucky deflection, there were only 2 players where the ball came down, Tyree and the Pats defender so the ball was placed where a catch could be made. 

Why do you insist on this crap. Eli has led the Giants and led that team well. 2 SB"s. Many winning seasons. And please, name me a team that win it all without a really good D. The Chielfs last season had the best O I think I ever saw. What happened there? In OT they couldn't  stop water rolling down a hill let alone the Pats.  No team wins a SB without that. 

He threw it up for grabs, it was a desperation play.  It worked, credit to him for escaping the tackle and getting the ball up but it was a very lucky play just as the game ending int that Samuel dropped was very lucky.

Eli as a starting QB is just 2 games under .500, he's only been to the playoffs 6 times in 15 years and has gone one and done 4 of those 6 appearances.

You need good D to win, Eli needed spectacular D to win.  He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points.  He's the only multiple SB winning QB that hasn't led his O to at least 20 points in a SB, he's one of only 2 SB winning QBs that didn't lead his O to more than 20 in regulation in both conf championship game and SB(in games they started and finished) and he did this TWICE! The only other QB to do this was backup Jeff Hostetler in 1990 and in the SB he and his O won that game by holding the ball for 40+ minutes keeping the high powered Bills O off the field.

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On 7/20/2019 at 2:32 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

Has Eli manning ever been one of the top 5 qbs in a given season?  If so, what season was he one of the 5 best qbs in the league?

The only year he was close to top 5 was 2011, the year Peyton was out.  He may have been 5th or 6th best that year.  He was really good that year BUT after a 3 int game in game 14 to drop the Giants to 7-7 the season appeared over.  From that point on his defense dominated leading them to the SB.

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On 7/20/2019 at 11:13 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

Will Eli be in the HOF?  Yes.

Does he deserve to be in the HOF?  No

Now, lets get back to ripping Mayfield cause hes better then Darnold.

He won't be, not if there are knowledgeable voters on the committee.  He doesn't even belong in the discussion.  I'm still wondering how a QB that was never great and never among the best QBs in the league can be considered one of the best of all time.

A QB like Ken Anderson isn't in, this man won a league MVP, led league in completions twice, comp % three times, yards twice, rating 4 times, made numerous all pro teams yet Eli Manning will make it because his D was incredible in 2 postseasons?

On 7/20/2019 at 10:38 AM, slats said:

I'd take a modern day Plunkett over Rivers. I remember dreaming about Vinny Testaderde being our Jim Plunkett. Big difference is that Eli won his first championship in his 20's for the team that drafted him, not at 33 on his third team. 

I get that Rivers has dramatically better numbers than Eli. But, yes, I'd put Eli ahead of Rivers for HoF contention based on the rings. Rivers hasn't elevated his team to that level, and has mostly been a part of <10 win teams over his career, despite his impressive statistics. 

Eli did win with his first team, in a season he threw 20 INTs leading the league.  Eli was drafted to a better team than Vinny or plunkett.  His team could still win with him throwing that many INTs.

Rivers has been a Peyton like postseason performer but he's been a top notch consistent QB over 16 games a year.  The truly best do it in both reg and postseason but doing it consistently each year over 16 games is more impressive than having a good few games in January where your D dominates making it easy for you.

Eli has won playoff games in just 2 postseasons, Rivers 4.  

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Youre just trolling poorly or think youre being funny. 

No one can seriously be this thick and fight with pretty much every fan on the board who doesnt agree with some nonsensical idea that will go to the end of time defending.  No one agrees with you.  Anyone who knows the game knows Eli is a HOF QB who gets in.  

Now its Foles we're selling.  His relatively mediocre career outside of one SB run and a partial season playing in a college system.  WTF does Foles and his one SB have to do with Eli and his two.  His relatively mediocre career with a guy whos playing time, his starts, his durability, the yardage hes thrown, number of TDs, etc dwarf what Foles has accomplished.  

I thought the compiler comment was goofy, you've somehow managed to go on a tangent thats even goofier.  

You do a great job attacking me, unfortunately you don't do a great job presenting your argument.

Foles best regular season was better than Eli's best.

Foles lone SB was better than Eli's 2 combined.

It shows Eli is a compiler, he's not great and never has been. The hall of fame is for ALL TIME greats

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12 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

You know what, I would take Eli and all of his stats over having a QB like Marino who lit up the record books and never won a SB. 2 rings for Eli. End of story. 

You are insane then.  Put Marino on those Giants teams and they are a dynasty.  They wouldn't have been sneaking into the playoffs as a WC or 9-7 weak division winner.

Dan Marino played on most weak teams and was 147-93 as a starter, Eli is 116-114. Marino once led his O to 34 points in a playoff game and lost.  

Eli over Dan Marino 😂😂😂😂

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Think you answered your own question here.  LOL

Peace frog is a fake /troll account.  If you are agreeing with him that's not a good thing.

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29 minutes ago, JiF said:

"Compiler" - is legit, hands down, no close second place, the stupidest sh*t any human has come up with in a debate to try and diminish the efforts of an athlete who is paid to, you know, produce results. 

He's paid to produce results when they matter, he's 2 games over .500 as a starting QB.  We don't care that he "lights it up" down 20 in the 4th or late in seasons when the team has no chance at the playoffs.  He's spent the majority of his career playing in meaningless games putting up meaningless numbers, he's never even been in the discussion for best QBs of this era yet he's one of the best of all time.

Let's not forget the rules to favor pass O started in 2004 which was Eli's rookie season.  His numbers on an annual basis are not impressive, he's a compiler.

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Youre a baby who always runs back to "youre attacking me" 

Keep trolling, arguing and coming back to me and everyone else with all of your pointless, baseless arguments driven by jealousy or hatred, whichever it is.

Foles has nothing to do with Manning.  Youre actually trying to make a point that a mostly backup QB has a better anything than Eli and his career to make a nonsensical point.  Yes, when you keep comparing Foles and his one SB run on a team that when he took over because of injury was a SB favorite.  Had, get this, a superior D.  

Eli is top 10 career wise in every single category that counts.  In games played, he 99.  So the compiler nonsense youre now selling is just as pointless as your Foles comparison.  A lot of wind that you'll soon go away from and then spin into a different pointless counter.   Or try to diminish what he did in the season by bringing up 20 INTS.  Who F'n cares.

Because no matter how many times you say it, no matter how many meaningless numbers or comparisons  like Foles you you bring up for some reason, the truth is Eli will go to the HOF and Foles will need to buy a ticket to get in.

Stop the trolling, you suck at it, its time to move on.  

Jets didnt deserve their SB, Namath wasnt that good outside of a year, Favre was awful in NY....

Yes, I'm the baby.  Not the one that does nothing but attack me because he can't put together a legitimate argument.

Once again, Eli is top 10 in all things categories because he has played his entire career in this pass happy era where the rules favor pass O and on top of that he's SIXTH all time in pass ATTEMPTS.

Here comes the part where you make things up.  I never said the Jets didn't deserve the SB, I said they had the easiest road to the SB- you know only needing one home playoff game to get there against a team that had to play another playoff game after having a better record than the Jets and beating them.

I also said namath was great (unlike Eli) for a few years but because of injuries he wasn't great for long?  Where am I wrong with any of this?

Favre was not good here, he cost us a legit SB chance in a down year for the NFL.  He couldn't even get us to the playoffs while our discarded QB took a 1 win team and won the division.

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5 minutes ago, slats said:

Top notch performers over 16 games a year don't go a decade between 10+ win seasons. Rivers has also led the league in interceptions a couple times. He's had a nice career, but never won the big one. He's not a HoF'er. 

I don't believe he should be a Hall of famer either, my point is he was much better than Eli.

Rivers 118-90 as a starter, Eli 116-114.  He has more wins than Eli despite 22 less starts.

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14 minutes ago, slats said:

I've already stated in this thread -a couple times- that Rivers has been the better QB of the two. On the point of the HoF, though, Eli is ahead (IMHO) because of the hardware. No matter how you choose to rationalize them, the man still has two rings, and two Super Bowl MVPs. 

He's a modern day Jim plunkett.  They didn't win either SB because of Eli and he didn't deserve either MVP.  The hall is for the greatest players of all time not busy for players who won championships.  

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Compared to your rants?

He could be dead and I'd agree with him over one of these so and so is lucky hijackings by you

My rants are fact based, I don't spend my time hurling insults at you.  I simply counter your arguments.

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Please, in simple form, none of the convoluted spins you run to, find the argument from me thats not legit.  He WILL be in the HOF, he HAS won TWO SBs.  Hes in the top 10 of every single offensive catagory that a QB should care about.  Except games played, cracks the top 100 by one.  But to you that spells compiler and me lacking a legitimate argument.  As opposed to you, who takes a SB away because of one pass you think shouldnt count or because the D played well.

Interesting take 

 

Oh yes, the attacking that you constantly whine about to everyone who doesnt agree with your trolling posts?  The type that got you banned from Finheaven and GangGreen message boards.  But I shouldnt agree with someone here like Peacefrog? 

He's 6th in attempts, lower in every other . Of the top 10 in career attempts, 8 of them have played in Eli's era.  That should tell you something.

In active games played for QBs he's 3rd all time behind only Brady and Brees- want to compare his career to those guys? In all time games played he's 9th for primary QBs.

I don't take any SBs away, they won them and they earned them but you get a little more credit as a QB needing to score 41 rather than 17 & 19.  He played well in both SB runs but doesn't win either without incredible defense.

Keep attacking me, it shows how poor your argument is.

 

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36 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think the most surprising thing about this entire debate is that people actually continue to respond the stupidity you present in these terribly boring arguments. 

 

Another that has nothing so will simply just attack. 

Where are the adults on this board?

31 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Fact6t based.

In the same post that you make the worst comparison, worse than Foles by calling Eli the modern day Plunkett.

Theres total BS that you just have to spin to after drying up another total BS comparison.

Its what you do.

And cry about attacks

Let's compare Eli and plunkett shall we? Plunkett basically started about 9 full seasons (then parts of others), Eli started basically 14 full seasons:

Top 5 in yards:

JP 1(13% of starting seasons)

EM 3(21%)

Top 5 in TDs:

JP 2(25%)

EM 3(21%)

Top 5 in completions:

JP 1(13%)

EM 1(.07%)

Top 5 in rating:

JP zero

EM zero

Top 5 in INTs:

JP 5(63%, led once)

EM 6(43%, led 3 times)

Record as starter:

JP 72-72

EM 116-114

Playoff apps:

JP 4(50%)

EM 6(43%)

Playoff record:

JP 8-2(80%)

EM 8-4(67%)

Seasons with playoff wins:

JP 3 out 4 apps(75%)

EM 2 of 6(33%)

PPG led by in SB runs:

JP 25.7 PPG

EM 23.1 PPG

PPG in SBs:

JP 25.5

EM 18

 

They are the same QB, the only difference is Eli played longer.

29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Pure drivel.

Total excuse making.

Wait, youre new attempt at logic is he isnt Brees or Brady?  One is the GOAT and the other might be if not for the other.

What a compelling case.  So those are the only two HOF QBs in the history of the NFL.

Thanks for clearing that up

 

Best of all is you actually believe that everyone, everywhere is wrong for knowing that this player will be in the HOF.  

And it makes you smarter than all 

The other 2 are what real hall of famers look like, players consistently at the top of their game.

I hope stupidity doesn't win out, he doesn't even belong in the discussion.  He would be the FIRST Hof QB elected without a single all pro appearance (whether on the official team or unofficial)

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44 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I think the issue here is whether the HoF prefers a 'very good QB on a great team' to a 'great QB on an average team'.  

Even correcting for different eras, how is Rivers' career any less than Fouts for example?  Not saying Rivers should be in over Eli, but if Eli gets in and Rivers doesn't then the HoF is making a definitive statement that rings, no matter how much the QB contributed, matter a lot more now than they used to.  In the case of Fouts, he was fun to watch in that offense, but his numbers don't really show a HoF career and he didn't even have the rings.  

Rivers does belong over Eli but let's compare him vs fouts:

Fouts:

1982 NFL MVP(none for Rivers)

All 80s 2nd team(rivers went make all 10s team)

6 times on all pro teams, 3 1st team.  2 1st team official, 2 2nd team official (Rivers made unofficial 1st team once and unofficial 2nd team once)

Led in completions twice(Rivers once)

Led in comp % once (Rivers once)

Led in yards 4 times (Rivers once)

Led in TDs twice (Rivers once)

Never led in INTs (Rivers led twice)

Fouts was the better QB vs his era

39 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

When Eli gets inducted into the HOF  Junc will be screaming Blalalaalalalalalalalala with his hands cupped over his ears and then will join the teh falcon in  JN infamy

He's not getting in

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32 minutes ago, JiF said:

Oh, I dont think you're stupid.  I think this argument is stupid and the random b.s. you use to support your stupid argument is even more stupid than the argument itself.

I have proven over and over he is not an all time great.

24 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Eli is getting in. Even though I largely agree with your assessment of Eli and his being overrated and in the right place at the right time, he is absolutely getting in. You don't win 2 SB MVP's and not get in the HOF, no matter how overrated you may be.

He didn't deserve either but even with them he will have a very hard time getting in.  They give him a chance but he really didn't even belong in the discussion.  I hope the voters don't just look at meaningless compiled numbers.

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That sums up his entire posting history. 

I love when you guys interact with each other as if you aren't the same person

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Too many words defendi g nonsense.  Compare plunkett, foles, whoever and you're still wrong and just spinning, slurring out mindless numbers. 

One more F'n time.  He's still top 10 in every meaningful number for a QB, over a long career with 2 SB MVP trophies.  You're too full of yourself too just open your mind.

Done, went to long with you.  As usual. 

All you had to say was that you have nothing to counter and move along.

8 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This is not true anymore.  The HOF is a business.  They more guys they let in, the more revenue for them.

Look at guys who just got in for baseball.  Mike Mussina????  

Its happening in all sports.  HOF is not just gor the all time greats.  Its for good, great and elite players.  

We are still acting like its for elite players only but those days are long gone.

Baseball has always been different but in each Hall it is supposed to be for all time great players.  Eli is more like Harold baines getting in, good player who played forever and compiled numbers.

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7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Longevity will always be part of the criteria. 

Jim Marshall played forever(282 games), he made 4 all pro teams (4 more than Eli) and he's not in.

Clay Matthews 278, made 3 all pro teams (3 more than Eli) and he's not in.

 

Lomas Brown 263, made 7 all pro teams(7 more than Eli) and he's not in.

Irving Fryar 255, made 2 all pro teams (2 more than Eli) and he's not in.

Earl Morrall played 255, 2 time 1st team all pro(2 more than Eli), won a LEAGUE MVP(1 more than Eli) and he's not in.

Bill Romanowski played 243, made 1 all pro team (1 more than Eli) and he's not in.

 

I can go on and on.  Longevity is great and his durability is his best quality but give me a GREAT QB like Kurt Warner who barely played but was great when he did over a guy who was never great and just played a long time compiling better overall numbers.

Let's look at Warner vs. Eli (and ignore the Giants were 5-4 and in the playoff race when Eli replaced him going 1-6 to end that season):

Warner(116 starts compared to 230 for Eli, 6 seasons with 11 or more starts for Kurt vs 14 for Eli)

2 time 1st team all pro (Eli zero)

2 time official league MVP(also added a third unofficial) while Eli has never even received a single league MVP vote.

9 time player of the week, Eli 4 times

2 time player of the month, Eli 1

3 top 5 seasons in completions (50%), Eli 1(.07%)

3 top 5 in yards (50%), Eli 4(29%)

3 top 5 in TDs (50%), Eli 3(21%)

Led league in completions one season, zero for Eli.

Led league in comp % 3 times, zero for Eli

Led league in TDs twice, Eli zero

Led league in yards once, Eli zero

Led league in passer rating twice, Eli zero

 

Eli isn't half the QB Warner was but now let's look at career compiled numbers:

Yards:

Eli 55,981

Kurt 32,344

TDs:

Eli 360

Kurt 208

 

People that don't watch these guys play would think Eli was better. Eli is a compiler, Kurt was true greatness

 

  • Upvote 1

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I'd say he elevated his team's play for those 2 Super Bowl runs.  Beating the Patriots in a Super Bowl is not easy.  Doing it 2x is almost impossible.  Doing it 2x with one of them coming against an 18-0 Patriots team makes him a hero. 

Even if he sucked for most of the rest of his career, he has that.  He's basically Joe Flacco except he had 2 magical postseason runs instead of 1.

Yep, he elevated his teams play by having his D hold Tom Brady and that offense to 14 & 17 points while Eli led his Os to 17 & 19 to win.

Flacco's magical run was led by him and the offense while Eli's 2 runs were led by his D.  They won a game in the playoffs on the road when the opponent scored 35, that won a SB when the opponent scored 31.  Eli has never won a playoff game when the opponent has scored more than 20 points.

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