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The Baker Mayfield and His Mouth Thread

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Did you know?  That in 1982 Terry Bradshaw led the league in TD passes with 17 and that same year, the MVP of the league was a Kicker?  Mark Moselely

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12 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

mDgjsr9.jpg.png.27b2218f3f960751f70f763d74f61a54.png

Is the purpose of this meme to not know what is actually photoshopped?  If so, mission accomplished. 

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10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

This might be the worst spin i've read here against a QB, that once again, almost everyone knows is going into the HOF.

Hes steady, in the top 10 statistically year in and year out, is going to end off top 5 in most categories and you think that he hasnt led enough times it changes anything?  

4 pro bowls

Never won without a D, weep, weep, weep.  

Only 2 games over .500.  Cant have that.  Hes responsible.  Just have to say, youre annoying for so many different reasons here.  But this Eli thing is crazy.  I want to recap your fine use of logic.  Didnt score enough in playoff wins, thats the worst line of thinking

Eli gets no credit for SB wins, its the D, coaching, whatever.

Dont make the playoffs, its Elis fault. 

Cant go on, once again youre embarrassing yourself, this is silly and as I said, I'll bet anything you want, right now, easy as can be, i say he going in, you will lose taking the other side.  

Like taking candy from a baby

It’s embarrassing. 

Anyone who knows football, understands football, can appreciate the history of the NFL, knows Eli Manning is going to the Hall of Fame. 

Only an idiot would deny it. 

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So long as he backs it up on the field, I have no problem with him constantly running his mouth.

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5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

No he didn't.  For saying he guaranteed a win?

Other than that he talked but didn't shlt on people, teammates, ex coaches, media people, fan bases.  He talks a lot more trash.

But as you said, such is fandom.  Almost always true

For his era he was an insane walking tabloid controversy. Today he wouldn’t move the needle, true.

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13 hours ago, jgb said:

For his era he was an insane walking tabloid controversy. Today he wouldn’t move the needle, true.

Namath, never knocked people though.  Not a coach, player, media person.  We know he talked but as he said on the SNY special the other night, he respected players and the game.  

And really thats the issue here to me.  I don't mind the talking, would haven't really noticed much or really cared but he's ripping people.  His first NFL HC.  Media people.  Teammate, by name.  

He really needs to stop fighting everyone 

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5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Namath, never knocked people though.  Not a coach, player, media person.  We know he talked but as he said isn't the SNY special the other night, he respected players and the game.  

And really that the issue to me.  I don't mind the talking, would haven't really noticed much or really card but he's ripping people.  His first NFL HC.  Media people.  Teammate, by name.  

He really needs to stop fighting everyone 

You’re trying to draw an absolute equivalence. That’s not what I’m saying. Brashness takes many forms. No one talked like Mayfield in 1960s. Society has changed. I’m talking to the “QBs should just shut up and play” crowd. Not saying Mayfield is baby Namath.

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15 hours ago, JiF said:

Did you know?  That in 1982 Terry Bradshaw led the league in TD passes with 17 and that same year, the MVP of the league was a Kicker?  Mark Moselely

Thank you..........

I guess random stats only tell part of the story then :) 

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

You’re trying to draw an absolute equivalence. That’s not what I’m saying. Brashness takes many forms. No one talked like Mayfield in 1960s. Society has changed. I’m talking to the “QBs should just shut up and play” crowd. Not saying Mayfield is baby Namath.

Actually I was agreeing with you that Joe was loud and brash, talked.  More noticeable because of when he played.  

But he wasnt mean, never criticized people, so not really a Baker type.  He was a fun loving guy who liked to have fun and talk, I agree.  But if you think he was saying one nasty thing a week, pissing and twisting people off every week you'd be missing what Joe was in the late 60's early 70's.  Not a criticism of what you were saying just pointing out that he was different from Baker.  

Time changes things, getting pissed that people put your really good team at up to 26 point underdogs and constantly predicting you will lose, coming back with hey, we will win, in fact I guarantee it set people off and made a large contingent of fans hate Joe.  Today?  No one would say boo

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That dude knows QBs and no matter how many times you guys want to make things up it doesn't change that.  
I knock Peyton in regards to Brady in the discussion for best of all time.
I knock namath because his career was overrated but be belongs in the hall because of what he meant to the game.
I knock Eli because he was never great and the Hall is for the greatest, it's not a lifetime participation award.
The ONLY way he gets in .. the only argument. ... Is that he did make some clutch throws to beat what some would say was an unbeatable team in the freaking Super Bowl ... A feat similar to the Namath prediction that got him enshrined.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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Just now, Dunnie said:

The ONLY way he gets in .. the only argument. ... Is that he did make some clutch throws to beat what some would say was an unbeatable team in the freaking Super Bowl ... A feat similar to the Namath prediction that got him enshrined.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

He walks in because his career numbers are so much better than Jets fans will admit to and because he won 2 SBs.

This isn't hard, when you're top ten in every category that counts for a QB along with being the MVP of your two SB wins, youre in the HOF.

Then again, there are actually people, Jet fans no less, that have no idea how good Joe Namath was so....

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7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He walks in because his career numbers are so much better than Jets fans will admit to and because he won 2 SBs.

This isn't hard, when you're top ten in every category that counts for a QB along with being the MVP of your two SB wins, youre in the HOF.

Then again, there are actually people, Jet fans no less, that have no idea how good Joe Namath was so....

He gets in for the two Super Bowls, and that's it. Without those championships, he's basically been an average QB. Rivers has been a better QB, but without the championships, he doesn't get in, IMHO. 

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12 minutes ago, slats said:

He gets in for the two Super Bowls, and that's it. Without those championships, he's basically been an average QB. Rivers has been a better QB, but without the championships, he doesn't get in, IMHO. 

He's a modern day Jim plunkett, plunkett for more for his 2 SB winning teams and he is not in the hall.

Without the D leading them to the championships he would have been an ex giant 7-8 years ago and would be a backup.  Instead he's lived off 2 good months of football and compiled numbers in meaningless games ever since

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16 minutes ago, slats said:

He gets in for the two Super Bowls, and that's it. Without those championships, he's basically been an average QB. Rivers has been a better QB, but without the championships, he doesn't get in, IMHO. 

They're both locks imo. They've also been playing since 04 and never miss games.

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2 minutes ago, slats said:

He gets in for the two Super Bowls, and that's it. Without those championships, he's basically been an average QB. Rivers has been a better QB, but without the championships, he doesn't get in, IMHO. 

I’ve been hearing and seeing a lot of HoF talk for Rivers this offseason across media outlets, and it bothers me.

At no time did he ever scare me, nor was he ever the best in the league. He doesn’t have any individual records, and hasn’t even sniffed a super bowl. The numbers he’s compiled look nice overall, until you realize that Stafford has also compiled big numbers simple because of the era and style that they play in. Combine that with the fact that Rivers had some of the most talented teams in the 00s and doesn’t even have a single conference championship to show for them, and it really puts a damper on his career. He’s certainly a great QB, but he’s not HoF exceptional.

Side note: Rivers and Matt Ryan are the two QBs who people have seemed to love for years but I’ve never had any confidence in. I can’t remember a single time I picked either of them to win a big playoff game. Even in the SB when Ryan played a strong first half, I kept worrying that he’d find a way to f it up. Sure enough much to every Jets fans chagrin, he came through on that front. The WC game against Rivers in Rex’s first year was the only Jets playoff game that I remember enjoying without trepidation just because I was so confident in Rivers’ ability to play down in big moments. These are not traits that are worthy of the HoF.

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26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He walks in because his career numbers are so much better than Jets fans will admit to and because he won 2 SBs.

This isn't hard, when you're top ten in every category that counts for a QB along with being the MVP of your two SB wins, youre in the HOF.

Then again, there are actually people, Jet fans no less, that have no idea how good Joe Namath was so....

Joe was actually great for a few years, Eli was never great.  His numbers look good compiled because he stayed healthy in this era where all the rules favor pass offense.  Greatness comes from being a top player year after year after year.  Brady is great, Brees great, his brother was great, Rodgers is great, etc... Eli was never great.  He's basically Vinny Testaverde with 2 SB wins thanks to his D.  He's actually less than Vinny because Vinny's '98 season was better than any Eli had and Vinny made an all pro team.

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I’ve been hearing and seeing a lot of HoF talk for Rivers this offseason across media outlets, and it bothers me.

At no time did he ever scare me, nor was he ever the best in the league. He doesn’t have any individual records, and hasn’t even sniffed a super bowl. The numbers he’s compiled look nice overall, until you realize that Stafford has also compiled big numbers simple because of the era and style that they play in. Combine that with the fact that Rivers had some of the most talented teams in the 00s and doesn’t even have a single conference championship to show for them, and it really puts a damper on his career. He’s certainly a great QB, but he’s not HoF exceptional.

Side note: Rivers and Matt Ryan are the two QBs who people have seemed to love for years but I’ve never had any confidence in. I can’t remember a single time I picked either of them to win a big playoff game. Even in the SB when Ryan played a strong first half, I kept worrying that he’d find a way to f it up. Sure enough much to every Jets fans chagrin, he came through on that front. The WC game against Rivers in Rex’s first year was the only Jets playoff game that I remember enjoying without trepidation just because I was so confident in Rivers’ ability to play down in big moments. These are not traits that are worthy of the HoF.

I think Rivers is very overrated but he's a million times better than Eli.  Ryan had a 28-3 lead in the SB, was it too much to ask his D to hold that lead?  Eli's D's never gave up more than 20 in the SB runs and never more than 17 in a SB.

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8 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I think Rivers is very overrated but he's a million times better than Eli.  Ryan had a 28-3 lead in the SB, was it too much to ask his D to hold that lead?  Eli's D's never gave up more than 20 in the SB runs and never more than 17 in a SB.

Which means nothing.  Only in your mind does how many points you score change a thing.  A SB win is a win, no matter how many points you needed to score.  

You take a premise, Eli doesn't belong in the HOF and look for stats to work backwards to convince people that those SBs didn't happen and shouldn't count for much.  

 

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13 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Joe was actually great for a few years, Eli was never great.  His numbers look good compiled because he stayed healthy in this era where all the rules favor pass offense.  Greatness comes from being a top player year after year after year.  Brady is great, Brees great, his brother was great, Rodgers is great, etc... Eli was never great.  He's basically Vinny Testaverde with 2 SB wins thanks to his D.  He's actually less than Vinny because Vinny's '98 season was better than any Eli had and Vinny made an all pro team.

The compiler line is a new piece of beauty.  Got to admit, no one anywhere believes this but go for it. 

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16 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

What are you talking about? I don't  like Eli and I don't like the Giants but the helmet catch is one of the most memorable  passes ever thrown in a SB. Don't  blame Eli for the WR making the catch 100x harder than it had to be, but he got the ball there and got it there under pressure. He also threw the winning TD pass to Plaxico. 

Eli also topped 3k yards many times in his career

He basically threw a hail Mary to Tyree.

16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

This might be the worst spin i've read here against a QB, that once again, almost everyone knows is going into the HOF.

Hes steady, in the top 10 statistically year in and year out, is going to end off top 5 in most categories and you think that he hasnt led enough times it changes anything?  

4 pro bowls

Never won without a D, weep, weep, weep.  

Only 2 games over .500.  Cant have that.  Hes responsible.  Just have to say, youre annoying for so many different reasons here.  But this Eli thing is crazy.  I want to recap your fine use of logic.  Didnt score enough in playoff wins, thats the worst line of thinking

Eli gets no credit for SB wins, its the D, coaching, whatever.

Dont make the playoffs, its Elis fault. 

Cant go on, once again youre embarrassing yourself, this is silly and as I said, I'll bet anything you want, right now, easy as can be, i say he going in, you will lose taking the other side.  

Like taking candy from a baby

Year in, year out in the top 10?  That's because year in and year out he's top 10 in attempts in mostly meaningless games accumulating garbage time numbers.

He should be top 10, if he was great he'd consistent be top 5 while leading categories now and then.  

15 seasons, here are his top 5 finishes:

Attempts 4

Yards 3

TDs 3

Rating ZERO

INTs 6(led three times)

Leading the league in a major category other than INTs (which he did three times)?  ZERO

He only earned 2 pro bowls, he made 2 more when multiple QBs dropped out and he was sent as a replacement.

ZERO all pro teams

He's only earned player of the week 4 times in my 15 seasons, for perspective Ryan Fitzpatrick has won that award 7 times (126 starts compared to 230 for Eli), Chad Pennington 6 times in just 81 starts.

It's not that he's never won without a D, most winning teams have good Ds.  He's never won without spectacular playoff defense.  He's only won playoff games in 2 postseasons and in those playoff wins his D never allowed more than 20 points.

Eli played well in both SB wins but without incredible D he doesn't get close to either SB.  He was a lot like Sanchez, the difference was Eli's D's stepped up in conference title games and SBs while Mark's did not.

I love how you go back to insulting me, you can't attack the argument so you attack me.

 

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49 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

The ONLY way he gets in .. the only argument. ... Is that he did make some clutch throws to beat what some would say was an unbeatable team in the freaking Super Bowl ... A feat similar to the Namath prediction that got him enshrined.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

He played well in both SB runs, he deserves credit for that but they won because of great D.  He doesn't deserve the hall based on 2 good months of football.

As far as Joe goes, he was great briefly but he meant so much to the growth of the game.  Eli doesn't have that, Joe may be the most important figure in pro football history.

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2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He basically threw a hail Mary to Tyree.

Year in, year out in the top 10?  That's because year in and year out he's top 10 in attempts in mostly meaningless games accumulating garbage time numbers.

He should be top 10, if he was great he'd consistent be top 5 while leading categories now and then.  

15 seasons, here are his top 5 finishes:

Attempts 4

Yards 3

TDs 3

Rating ZERO

INTs 6(led three times)

Leading the league in a major category other than INTs (which he did three times)?  ZERO

He only earned 2 pro bowls, he made 2 more when multiple QBs dropped out and he was sent as a replacement.

ZERO all pro teams

He's only earned player of the week 4 times in my 15 seasons, for perspective Ryan Fitzpatrick has won that award 7 times (126 starts compared to 230 for Eli), Chad Pennington 6 times in just 81 starts.

It's not that he's never won without a D, most winning teams have good Ds.  He's never won without spectacular playoff defense.  He's only won playoff games in 2 postseasons and in those playoff wins his D never allowed more than 20 points.

Eli played well in both SB wins but without incredible D he doesn't get close to either SB.  He was a lot like Sanchez, the difference was Eli's D's stepped up in conference title games and SBs while Mark's did not.

I love how you go back to insulting me, you can't attack the argument so you attack me.

 

How the F do you know that if the Giants D gave up more points that the Giants and Eli couldn't score more?  What kind of half assed logic are you still selling?  Opposing scored 17, SB doesn't count the same as others.  

Desperate times.....

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5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Which means nothing.  Only in your mind does how many points you score change a thing.  A SB win is a win, no matter how many points you needed to score.  

You take a premise, Eli doesn't belong in the HOF and look for stats to work backwards to convince people that those SBs didn't happen and shouldn't count for much.  

 

I have watched Eli play for 15 years, anyone that has watched him knows he's not an all time great.  He had great games and great moments but was never consistently great which is what you need to get to the Hall.

 

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The compiler line is a new piece of beauty.  Got to admit, no one anywhere believes this but go for it. 

It's not new, he's been compiling most of this last decade.  His teams are usually done by October and then he puts up "good numbers" to fool folks who don't watch him play.

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

How the F do you know that if the Giants D gave up more points that the Giants and Eli couldn't score more?  What kind of half assed logic are you still selling?  Opposing scored 17, SB doesn't count the same as others.  

Desperate times.....

He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20, that's a pretty incredible fact.

Let's look at Nick Foles MVP vs Eli's 2.

Foles in 1 game led his O to 41 points, Eli in 2 led Os to combined 36.

Foles in 1 game saw his D allow 33, Eli in 2 saw his D's allow 31 combined.

Foles in 1 game threw 3 TDs (and caught one), Eli threw 3 combined in 2 games.

Foles was a real MVP, Eli's MVPs were jokes because by default the QB usually gets it.

 

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Eli's game at SF in 2011 was one of the best QB playoff performances I've ever seen. That defense was ferocious. Cruz before injury was also a hell of a player.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Actually I was agreeing with you that Joe was loud and brash, talked.  More noticeable because of when he played.  

But he wasnt mean, never criticized people, so not really a Baker type.  He was a fun loving guy who liked to have fun and talk, I agree.  But if you think he was saying one nasty thing a week, pissing and twisting people off every week you'd be missing what Joe was in the late 60's early 70's.  Not a criticism of what you were saying just pointing out that he was different from Baker.  

Time changes things, getting pissed that people put your really good team at up to 26 point underdogs and constantly predicting you will lose, coming back with hey, we will win, in fact I guarantee it set people off and made a large contingent of fans hate Joe.  Today?  No one would say boo

I see your point, thanks for clarifying :) 

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46 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I’ve been hearing and seeing a lot of HoF talk for Rivers this offseason across media outlets, and it bothers me.

At no time did he ever scare me, nor was he ever the best in the league. He doesn’t have any individual records, and hasn’t even sniffed a super bowl. The numbers he’s compiled look nice overall, until you realize that Stafford has also compiled big numbers simple because of the era and style that they play in. Combine that with the fact that Rivers had some of the most talented teams in the 00s and doesn’t even have a single conference championship to show for them, and it really puts a damper on his career. He’s certainly a great QB, but he’s not HoF exceptional.

Side note: Rivers and Matt Ryan are the two QBs who people have seemed to love for years but I’ve never had any confidence in. I can’t remember a single time I picked either of them to win a big playoff game. Even in the SB when Ryan played a strong first half, I kept worrying that he’d find a way to f it up. Sure enough much to every Jets fans chagrin, he came through on that front. The WC game against Rivers in Rex’s first year was the only Jets playoff game that I remember enjoying without trepidation just because I was so confident in Rivers’ ability to play down in big moments. These are not traits that are worthy of the HoF.

I agree all around. Never felt bad missing out on Ryan. Never believed in Rivers. No way Rivers deserves to get in a HoF that Klecko isn't in. 

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4 minutes ago, jgb said:

I see your point, thanks for clarifying :) 

Thought it might have come out a little convoluted, sorry if it did

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1 minute ago, slats said:

I agree all around. Never felt bad missing out on Ryan. Never believed in Rivers. No way Rivers deserves to get in a HoF that Klecko isn't in. 

I wonder how much Joe’s felony conviction plays into it. I’d argue it shouldn’t... but never know what these guys consider when voting.

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27 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20, that's a pretty incredible fact.

Let's look at Nick Foles MVP vs Eli's 2.

Foles in 1 game led his O to 41 points, Eli in 2 led Os to combined 36.

Foles in 1 game saw his D allow 33, Eli in 2 saw his D's allow 31 combined.

Foles in 1 game threw 3 TDs (and caught one), Eli threw 3 combined in 2 games.

Foles was a real MVP, Eli's MVPs were jokes because by default the QB usually gets it.

 

Foles and any other side story you drag in to discredit Eli does.

Foles isnt Eli.  He had a single story book SB run and another year where his numbers were great until injured.

Elis has had a 15 year run.  One season, no matter who you drag up, isnt a 15 year career with two SBs.  Plenty have one.

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2 minutes ago, jgb said:

I wonder how much Joe’s felony conviction plays into it. I’d argue it shouldn’t... but never know what these guys consider when voting.

I'd bet its what initially kept him out.  Its led to the young voters being his only chance, young voters who just had no appreciation of how good he actually was. 

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On 7/18/2019 at 10:56 AM, JiF said:

 I'm not proud of admitting that but I cant think of 2 athletes I've hated more in my entire lifetime...maybe Jason Taylor. 

 

 

I used to hate Jason Taylor too..........until I sat at a poker table with him and cleaned out his wallet.  Now I think he is a great guy lol

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

I agree all around. Never felt bad missing out on Ryan. Never believed in Rivers. No way Rivers deserves to get in a HoF that Klecko isn't in. 

Rivers is 7th all time in AY/A and and 8th in passer rating, and is going to end his career in the top five for yards and TDs. Klecko not being in the Hall is a travesty, but come on.

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13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Rivers is 7th all time in AY/A and and 8th in passer rating, and is going to end his career in the top five for yards and TDs. Klecko not being in the Hall is a travesty, but come on.

QBs are judged by championships. You can debate whether or not that's fair, but I think it is. Rivers is a compiler with a losing post-season record. I'd vote against him. All those positions in the record books will be surpassed over time as the rules continue to favor QBs, and QBs regularly play into their 40s. 

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