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8 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Was he an ass*hole?

I missed that.  

Uh is mccown?

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4 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

So the Jets' fan base is now reduced to looking back fondly at players who couldn't be expected to actually win, just lose in a routine, unremarkable  manner?  Is there no hope for us?

When you are NFL Siberia and you are in a self-inflicted rebuild you aren’t trying to win, you are trying to survive. 

Mike Maccagnan, Todd Bowles, and Josh McCown were rebuilding JAG’s who served a mediocre yet important purpose at a time when we had no franchise QB and were simply the best we could get.  The objective is to be professional and ruffle no feathers as you suck for years.

Joe Douglas, Adam Gase, and Sam Darnold are elite NFL talent. The Jets have a franchise QB, it allows us to recruit superior executives and coaches, and now that the rebuild is over order has been restored. We aren’t NFL Siberia anymore.  We aren’t a Fredo organization anymore so now we have our wartime consigliere.

In that context, Josh McCown was a very good Jet and we should all wish him well for the necessary purpose he served in mentoring Sam and quietly getting out of the way so the youngsters confidence could flourish.  Mike, Todd, and Josh were our bridge to the future; they were never intended to be a part of it.

SAR I 

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11 hours ago, Jets723 said:

We will look back and realize he played a big role in helping Sam 

So Sam won't be a success in his career without the wisdom passed on by Josh McCown?  If this was the case, why not hire him as a Coach now, if his input into Sam is so vital to Sam's future success?

A best-QB-prospect-in-draft needed a journeyman to teach him how to play QB?  You guys must not think very much of Sam Darnold tbqh. 

I think Sam will succeed (or fail) on Sam himself, not on having a brief cup-of-coffee for part of one year with Josh McCown.

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10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

What you and the others are not getting is that there is a difference between a man and an athlete. 

And that money has nothing to do with it.  Its actually pretty simple.

Last I checked we pay football players to be athletes and coaches to coach.

Are you suggesting we fire our players and hire dudes working at soup kitchens and mentoring at-risk youth, because being a "man" is more important that being good at playing your position?

Listen, no one questions that Josh McCown is a good human being (as far as any of us know him, which is almost not-at-all, lets be honest).  

If being a good person was all that was required to be a great QB, well, we'd have alot more great QB's.

At what point did it become a crime to call a thing a thing?  Why do some have to try and make the guy into more than what he was and have honorary threads about him as if he died fighting a fire and saving homeless children?

Good luck to him in his retirement.  

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Last I checked we pay football players to be athletes and coaches to coach.

Are you suggesting we fire our players and hire dudes working at soup kitchens and mentoring at-risk youth, because being a "man" is more important that being good at playing your position?

Listen, no one questions that Josh McCown is a good human being (as far as any of us know him, which is almost not-at-all, lets be honest).  

If being a good person was all that was required to be a great QB, well, we'd have alot more great QB's.

At what point did it become a crime to call a thing a thing?  Why do some have to try and make the guy into more than what he was and have honorary threads about him as if he died fighting a fire and saving homeless children?

Good luck to him in his retirement.  

Who will make the soup then?

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10 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Nothing quite like watching Patrick Ramsey's mom have a complete meltdown because anyone dares to express that they personally liked a former Jets' backup QB. Unforgivable!

I love it when folks bring up Ramsey.  It shows how little else I've been materially wrong about since then. :yahoo:

2006 backup QB to Chad Pennington in his last good year in NY.  Cost us a 6th round pick, and despite my hopes, he didn't work out.  And I've owned it since then.  

I don't see alot of formerly loud mouthed Sanchez, Geno or Hackenberg (and a dozen more) fans owning their big misses. 

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Who will make the soup then?

the soup nazi, of course1400127270-0.jpg

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Last I checked we pay football players to be athletes and coaches to coach.

Are you suggesting we fire our players and hire dudes working at soup kitchens and mentoring at-risk youth, because being a "man" is more important that being good at playing your position?

Listen, no one questions that Josh McCown is a good human being (as far as any of us know him, which is almost not-at-all, lets be honest).  

If being a good person was all that was required to be a great QB, well, we'd have alot more great QB's.

At what point did it become a crime to call a thing a thing?  Why do some have to try and make the guy into more than what he was and have honorary threads about him as if he died fighting a fire and saving homeless children?

Good luck to him in his retirement.  

You are one very confused person right now.

I could care less about charitable work.  Neither did I or anyone else say that being a "man" is more important that being good at playing your position.  And really, find a single person who has even hinted that we should only hire players that fit this mold.  Going totally over the top with all or nothing response is silly, I'm sure you realize that.

You have taken people wishing someone in their retirement into a debate about how good he was over the course of a career.  People have been pretty clear here, its about him as a person, a person retiring after 16 seasons.  

Its not a crime to talk about his career.  Just not in this thread today.  Doesnt make anyone smarter than another to recognize that he was basically a career backup.

With 32 starting jobs in the entire world, thats not a crime and doesnt mean he sucks.

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the mentor thing is the biggest BS ever ...for 10 mil we couoda had 2 decent OL

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

You are one very confused person right now.

Says the guy who for 6+ months didn't know what years Gase coached Tannehill (and probably still doesn't know) and loudly credited Gase with Tannehill's production before he'd ever met Tannehill......

You're the last person who gets to call anyone else confused, mate.

Quote

Its not a crime to talk about his career.  Just not in this thread today.

Yeah, no.  Folks can say and think what they like.  Wanna-be forum thought-police can sod off.

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7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I love it when folks bring up Ramsey.  It shows how little else I've been materially wrong about since then. :yahoo:

2006 backup QB to Chad Pennington in his last good year in NY.  Cost us a 6th round pick, and despite my hopes, he didn't work out.  And I've owned it since then.  

I don't see alot of formerly loud mouthed Sanchez, Geno or Hackenberg (and a dozen more) fans owning their big misses. 

Or it just might be the simple point of the hypocrisy of your position on backup QBs.  It's also not a particularly good defense to point out that you lived on an island with that one, simply because even the most hardcore fans of those other failures knew better than to take that position.

Don't get me wrong though, you've been wrong about an excessively long list of things since (as has everyone else around here, mind you), it's just the most amusing.

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25 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Or it just might be the simple point of the hypocrisy of your position on backup QBs.

What hypocrisy is that?  I wanted Ramsey to be good and thought he would.  He wasn't.  We moved on, as did I.

I/we didn't hold a thread honoring his invaluable time in NY, his positive impact on Pennington and his good humanitarian spirit here after he was gone.....  

 

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51 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

the mentor thing is the biggest BS ever ...for 10 mil we couoda had 2 decent OL

2?  We paid Winters and Long $7M, Carpenter over $6M, and Kelvin Beachum $8M.  I don't even think any were actually decent.  The idea we were going to get 2 better at less than those stiffs per year is pretty far-fetched. 

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I think Sam has shown from day one that he’s a hard worker, all about football and mature beyond his years.  He was still a young kid from across the country when the Jets drafted him.  

Josh was that added comfort, a big brother away from home and an unexpected bonus that put the kid at ease, someone with more than a decade in the business he could ask questions or voice his concerns.

For those that object to that, or belittle Josh’s role as a mentor at $10 mil, too bad!  God bless him. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So Sam won't be a success in his career without the wisdom passed on by Josh McCown?  If this was the case, why not hire him as a Coach now, if his input into Sam is so vital to Sam's future success?

A best-QB-prospect-in-draft needed a journeyman to teach him how to play QB?  You guys must not think very much of Sam Darnold tbqh. 

I think Sam will succeed (or fail) on Sam himself, not on having a brief cup-of-coffee for part of one year with Josh McCown.

Baker was best prospect hence he was drafted ahead of Sam. Sam's rookie year was only his fourth year of playing quarterback. Two year starter in college and then off to the pro game. No, he didn't need Josh to teach him how to play QB but Im sure he helped him learn to become a QB. It's a little more than just playing the game old friend. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I love it when folks bring up Ramsey.  It shows how little else I've been materially wrong about since then. :yahoo:

2006 backup QB to Chad Pennington in his last good year in NY.  Cost us a 6th round pick, and despite my hopes, he didn't work out.  And I've owned it since then.  

I don't see alot of formerly loud mouthed Sanchez, Geno or Hackenberg (and a dozen more) fans owning their big misses. 

1.  Sanchez wasn't a miss.

2.  I told you that the Negative Nancy Miserable Marvin shtick was going to be a challenge for you this year as we have nothing to be miserable about and the fans don't want to hear your depression-baiting anymore.  Try being optimistic for once.  More important, try to be kind.  Not to players.  To other posters.  We're not the enemy.  We're supposed to be on the same side, remember?

SAR I

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Nothing but great things to say about this guy. Dude shows up to work each and every day and just wants to do his part. Not easy for people to accept a backup role and play for 10 different teams. However, this guy made it 17 YEARS in this league. Knew something that others didn't. 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Last I checked we pay football players to be athletes and coaches to coach.

Are you suggesting we fire our players and hire dudes working at soup kitchens and mentoring at-risk youth, because being a "man" is more important that being good at playing your position?

Listen, no one questions that Josh McCown is a good human being (as far as any of us know him, which is almost not-at-all, lets be honest).  

If being a good person was all that was required to be a great QB, well, we'd have alot more great QB's.

At what point did it become a crime to call a thing a thing?  Why do some have to try and make the guy into more than what he was and have honorary threads about him as if he died fighting a fire and saving homeless children?

Good luck to him in his retirement.  

Your need to exaggerate each and every point in this post goes to how weak your position is here. 

McCown had one decent year as the Jets starter, got overpaid last year -yes!- because Mac panicked after missing out on Cousins, and then served as a bridge/mentor for the youngest QB to start opening day in the NFL since the 1970 merger. 

It doesn't have to be Sam would've failed if not for McCown for McCown to be valuable to him his rookie year. A 17-year vet who's seen it all and can talk to a teammate in a different way than a coach -his boss- can is valuable. You start a new job, in a new city, your boss says here's your desk go at it. That co-worker who comes over to show you the ropes, allowing you to ask the "stupid" questions you might not ask your boss, that has a real value. That co-worker who also becomes a good friend is even more valuable. Would Sam have progressed without McCown's help? Sure. Was his transition easier because of McCown's help? Also, yes. 

Cost them $10M in a year where they had another $90M in empty space. His contract, while excessive, means basically nothing long term. If his presence helped transition Sam and accelerate his development, that's only a good thing. This isn't Fitz holding an idiot franchise hostage then putting up a return-to-the-mean kinda season, this was an idiot franchise overpaying McCown to be their QB in case they completely screwed up the best QB draft in recent memory and winding up with a good mentor for their potential star QB. All good. 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

If being a good person was all that was required to be a great QB, well, we'd have alot more great QB's.

Except no one--NO ONE --here is calling him a great QB.

They are saying he was a good teammate and from all accounts a good person, wasn't a dog, didn't embarrass this franchise or the fanbase, played to his abilities.

Period.  

Calling him a "loser" because he was a career losing QB and claiming you are just calling a "thing a thing" is sophistry of the highest order.

Calling someone a "loser" is a pejorative term and you know it.

He wasn't a very good QB.  He lost more than he won.

He wasn't a loser. 

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On 6/17/2019 at 2:57 PM, Integrity28 said:

It was Sam’s doing. You guys give far too much credit to coaches and mentors. If Sam is s star, it’ll be because of Sam.

This. 

The way split testing works is you'd have to have the same people involved for both scenarios (and largely the same scenarios outright), plus a bit more than a few games after returning to irrefutably claim any proven point.

McCown wasn't going to mentor Sanchez into an awesome QB for 10-15 years. Likewise, Darnold would have been a good QB with Brunell in the same role McCown played. Brees gushed about the latter to no end. 

In the end, notwithstanding things like injuries or entire unlearning and relearning of throwing motions, it's on the player. I have no doubt McCown was an asset in the film room or on the sideline after Darnold got off the field. But any suggestion that Darnold wouldn't have otherwise panned out as a FQB is silliness. 

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11 minutes ago, slats said:

Your need to exaggerate each and every point in this post goes to how weak your position is here. 

Yup, now us calling McCown a good guy, a consummate professional and an exemplary teammate means we're calling him and I quote "a great QB".

I've noticed that about this dude, he jumps to extreme hyperbole to defend an indefensible position and then intimate..."so, you're calling him a great QB because he was a good guy?"

Miserable dude.  Almost every post it seems.  

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15 minutes ago, slats said:

Your need to exaggerate each and every point in this post goes to how weak your position is here. 

McCown had one decent year as the Jets starter, got overpaid last year -yes!- because Mac panicked after missing out on Cousins, and then served as a bridge/mentor for the youngest QB to start opening day in the NFL since the 1970 merger. 

It doesn't have to be Sam would've failed if not for McCown for McCown to be valuable to him his rookie year. A 17-year vet who's seen it all and can talk to a teammate in a different way than a coach -his boss- can is valuable. You start a new job, in a new city, your boss says here's your desk go at it. That co-worker who comes over to show you the ropes, allowing you to ask the "stupid" questions you might not ask your boss, that has a real value. That co-worker who also becomes a good friend is even more valuable. Would Sam have progressed without McCown's help? Sure. Was his transition easier because of McCown's help? Also, yes. 

Cost them $10M in a year where they had another $90M in empty space. His contract, while excessive, means basically nothing long term. If his presence helped transition Sam and accelerate his development, that's only a good thing. This isn't Fitz holding an idiot franchise hostage then putting up a return-to-the-mean kinda season, this was an idiot franchise overpaying McCown to be their QB in case they completely screwed up the best QB draft in recent memory and winding up with a good mentor for their potential star QB. All good. 

You know who else Sam says was a tremendous help?

Teddy.  Was around the guy for a few months and Teddy made $5 million.

Really good guy and Sam said he really appreciated his time with him.

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Sam is going to be great because of Sam--his arm talent, his ability to read defenses, his incredibly accuracy, his ability to move around and throw on the run.  Will have little to do with McCown.

But at the end of his career, when they ask him who helped him out when he was a young player, betcha he'll mention Josh.

Great players always look back appreciatively at teammates who helped them out as 1st and second year players.

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On 6/17/2019 at 10:07 PM, Peace Frog said:

Josh McCown is a great mentor but (i) he has no connection to Gase, (ii) he’s from the prior regime and (iii) he has no coaching experience. 

He’s not coming back to coach Sam. 

Or if he does, then let him be a QBC at a lower level first and prove he's more coach than athlete in terms of correcting form and more in a person other than himself.

I think he'd be good in the role, but it's more based on his reputation and how he seems like a good guy. He can be good in the mentor-ish role, but not adequate enough as a QBC, just because he was able to play at the NFL level himself for so long. 

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2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

the mentor thing is the biggest BS ever ...for 10 mil we couoda had 2 decent OL

Stuff like this is why I’m glad Macagnan is finally gone

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or if he does, then let him be a QBC at a lower level first and prove he's more coach than athlete in terms of correcting form and more in a person other than himself.

I think he'd be good in the role, but it's more based on his reputation and how he seems like a good guy. He can be good in the mentor-ish role, but not adequate enough as a QBC, just because he was able to play at the NFL level himself for so long. 

I wasn't suggesting he was deserving of the role or that he could even do it.

Just that if he wanted to go that route, it's likely not with the Jets.

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or if he does, then let him be a QBC at a lower level first and prove he's more coach than athlete in terms of correcting form and more in a person other than himself.

I think he'd be good in the role, but it's more based on his reputation and how he seems like a good guy. He can be good in the mentor-ish role, but not adequate enough as a QBC, just because he was able to play at the NFL level himself for so long. 

Former New York Jets quarterback Josh McCown announced his retirement after 16 seasons in the NFL and will now join ESPN as an NFL analyst. He will appear on shows such as NFL Live, SportsCenter and Get Up!

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56 minutes ago, SAR I said:

1.  Sanchez wasn't a miss.

2.  I told you that the Negative Nancy Miserable Marvin shtick was going to be a challenge for you this year as we have nothing to be miserable about and the fans don't want to hear your depression-baiting anymore.  Try being optimistic for once.  More important, try to be kind.  Not to players.  To other posters.  We're not the enemy.  We're supposed to be on the same side, remember?

SAR I

Stadium is still ugly. 

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29 minutes ago, slats said:

Your need to exaggerate each and every point in this post goes to how weak your position is here. 

McCown had one decent year as the Jets starter, got overpaid last year -yes!- because Mac panicked after missing out on Cousins, and then served as a bridge/mentor for the youngest QB to start opening day in the NFL since the 1970 merger. 

It doesn't have to be Sam would've failed if not for McCown for McCown to be valuable to him his rookie year. A 17-year vet who's seen it all and can talk to a teammate in a different way than a coach -his boss- can is valuable. You start a new job, in a new city, your boss says here's your desk go at it. That co-worker who comes over to show you the ropes, allowing you to ask the "stupid" questions you might not ask your boss, that has a real value. That co-worker who also becomes a good friend is even more valuable. Would Sam have progressed without McCown's help? Sure. Was his transition easier because of McCown's help? Also, yes. 

Cost them $10M in a year where they had another $90M in empty space. His contract, while excessive, means basically nothing long term. If his presence helped transition Sam and accelerate his development, that's only a good thing. This isn't Fitz holding an idiot franchise hostage then putting up a return-to-the-mean kinda season, this was an idiot franchise overpaying McCown to be their QB in case they completely screwed up the best QB draft in recent memory and winding up with a good mentor for their potential star QB. All good. 

i tend to agree with this.  mccown seems to have known his place at this stage in his career.  he had one last shot before darnold was drafted but after that he was done and he knew it and he also made peace with it.  some of these  qb's on the way out are not very nice to the new guys.  i believe favre wouldn't rodgers the time of day.  i'm not sure if montana had a really good relationship with young.  i don't think todd really like obrien.

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36 minutes ago, slats said:

Your need to exaggerate each and every point in this post goes to how weak your position is here. 

McCown had one decent year as the Jets starter, got overpaid last year -yes!- because Mac panicked after missing out on Cousins, and then served as a bridge/mentor for the youngest QB to start opening day in the NFL since the 1970 merger. 

It doesn't have to be Sam would've failed if not for McCown for McCown to be valuable to him his rookie year. A 17-year vet who's seen it all and can talk to a teammate in a different way than a coach -his boss- can is valuable. You start a new job, in a new city, your boss says here's your desk go at it. That co-worker who comes over to show you the ropes, allowing you to ask the "stupid" questions you might not ask your boss, that has a real value. That co-worker who also becomes a good friend is even more valuable. Would Sam have progressed without McCown's help? Sure. Was his transition easier because of McCown's help? Also, yes. 

Cost them $10M in a year where they had another $90M in empty space. His contract, while excessive, means basically nothing long term. If his presence helped transition Sam and accelerate his development, that's only a good thing. This isn't Fitz holding an idiot franchise hostage then putting up a return-to-the-mean kinda season, this was an idiot franchise overpaying McCown to be their QB in case they completely screwed up the best QB draft in recent memory and winding up with a good mentor for their potential star QB. All good. 

That sure is a lot of words.

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On 6/19/2019 at 9:41 AM, Warfish said:

Says the guy who for 6+ months didn't know what years Gase coached Tannehill (and probably still doesn't know) and loudly credited Gase with Tannehill's production before he'd ever met Tannehill......

You're the last person who gets to call anyone else confused, mate.

Yeah, no.  Folks can say and think what they like.  Wanna-be forum thought-police can sod off.

6+ months because I read your pic wrong?  This after you said Gase has only had success with Manning and that's not really success.  Or your argument that Tannehill was actually better before Gase?  That argument?  Wont even recognize that somehow he won and got to the playoffs with Tebow, beat the Steelers in the playoff and later was competitive with cutler.  And youre going to hang onto this nonsense. 

I'm trying to be nice because I don't think you're a douchebag.  I may be wrong.

If I were you, the last thing I would do is talk shlt about QBs.  The last gem out of you was teaching me that Darnold was a turnover machine with a chicken arm similar to Pennington.  Pennington arm.  Form you.  That is without a doubt the line that says all we need to know.  Which makes your man crush on Ramsey, Fitz and other loser QBs even funnier.

But how anyone can continue to argue that McCowns just a loser, fans have accepted losing and just can't get it through your head that all the well wishes are because he's a highly respected teammate.  So argue away.  This is beyond stupid.

 

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23 hours ago, Warfish said:

I wouldn't.  

I don't agree.  He is a properly compensated franchise QB who throws every year for 4,000+ yards and 25+ TD's to half that in INT's.  Winning a team achievement and no QB can do it alone.

I would literally kill to have Sam Darnold put up Cousins-like numbers this year.  Hope would be a nice change of pace here.  Jets fan talk a great game about how other teams guys "suck".....when our guys care barely produce half those "sucky" guys production, and our fans deify those guys.

If we spent every $$ of our cap every year, and were in cap hell, the cap argument might hold more weight with me.  We don't and it doesn't.

But let me ask, just curious, but does this matter, at all, now?

We have Darnold.  We all support Darnold, right?  Many of us took different routes in terms of personal preferences before Darnold to get there, but we're all there now.

Is there a point to this rehashing debates from years ago now beyond trying to paint the laughable McCown era as anything other than a total failure for the franchise? 

 

I never said Cousins ''sucks''.  Merely that he's a dead end QB.  Because he is.  His record against strong teams proves that.  Until he proves he can beat good teams, I.E. win playoff games, there's nothing to be gained by a contender by having Cousins as your QB, and certainly nothing to be gained by a bad team like us. 

Those stats you like to point out about Cousins are piled up against bad teams, similar to what Chad Pennington used to do here, only to disappoint in big games.  It's hollow to point to stats that look nice and argue that he's worth anything close to $84M guaranteed.

Yes, Darnold is our QB.  Yes, I'm happy he is.  But this is a message board and you keep saying things that are straight up silly about Cousins while bashing a QB like Josh McCown who was never, or should NOT have been, expected to be ''the guy'' here. 

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22 hours ago, Warfish said:

Oh, the :feels:

His career record as a QB makes him a loser.  Winners win more than they lose.  Losers lose more than they win.  Is this really hard to understand?  He lost vastly more than he won, all the :feels: in the world won't change it.

He could have lost 2 games for every win for 150 years, he'd still be a loser.  And the fact that he did most of that losing elsewhere makes it even more odd the way Jets Fans are constantly bending over backwards to praise this guy and defend him.

His only redeeming quality in his time in NY was "he was a nice guy".  

Being a loser JAG =/= being an all-time bust.  There are degrees of badness, obviously.

 

By this criteria Kirk Cousins is a loser too, given his sub-.500 career record and, most importantly, his 4-24 record against above .500 teams. 

McCown is a ''loser'' career backup.  Cousins is a ''loser'' who gets paid like an elite QB. 

Your ''feels'' are misguided. 

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18 hours ago, Warfish said:

Heaven forbid a Jets Fan wants to have a QB who can win games, throw for yards, complete passes, and score at least twice as many TD's and he throws INT's.  

That's just crazy talk!  We definitely should love journeymen temps who cant do any of that silly production stuff, but who melt our cold NY hearts with their aw shucks' good nature'd ways!

"Dude" got $16 million to play in 17 games, and win 5 of them.  9-23 record in his time here.  And he deserves "accolades" for that?  

He's not my friend, so his wonderful personal characteristics don't do much for me.  He was my team's QB for a very brief stretch, that's it. 

All I wanted from him, and any Jets Player, is production and wins and at some point a title in my lifetime.

Just business. 

 

But Cousins doesn't win games. 

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18 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Do you understand what "world class" means?

If you are ever, at anytime, in the history of your life, a starting QB in the NFL, even a sh*tty one, you are a world class athlete.

There are only 40-50 of these guys every year and a large portion are the same guys.

That's in the world.

Nathan Peterman is a world class athlete.

Hackenberg is the lone exception to this rule. 

  • Haha 2

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