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The thing people forget about Trumaine is he’s been kind of a jerk since college. It’s far more likely he just got paid and doesn’t care anymore than anything to do with systems or injuries. Football players play.

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 Is Leonard Williams any good?

 

Isn’t that obvious? It’s never been a question of if he’s good or not. It’s if good is good enough to warrant paying for. And the Quinnen pick means we kind of have to, because if we just used the third overall pick to replace the sixth overall pick then we just pissed away some serious assets over the last 5 years.

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Can the OL hold up

Will Bell be his old self 

Will Polite be able to be a passrush threat 

If those three are yes we are going to the playoffs 

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7 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

 

Isn’t that obvious? It’s never been a question of if he’s good or not. It’s if good is good enough to warrant paying for. And the Quinnen pick means we kind of have to, because if we just used the third overall pick to replace the sixth overall pick then we just pissed away some serious assets over the last 5 years.

Spoiler: we used the third overall to replace the sixth overall.

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Spoiler: we used the third overall to replace the sixth overall.

They can afford to pay Leo while Q is on his rookie deal, the trick is Leo earning that contract. 

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9 hours ago, slats said:

You joined here less than a year ago, 

Details 

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10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

1. Can Gase coach up Darnold?

2. Is Darnold good enough to elevate the franchise by himself?

3. Does Le’Veon Bell still like football?

3. Can Gregg Williams cobble together a functioning group of corners from the flotsam he was handed?

4. Is Leonard Williams any good?

5. How much of an impact will Gase’s and Williams’ disciplinarian shtick have on improving the performance of what was a lazy, entitled, unchecked roster the last four years?

6. Is Quinnen Williams an elite pass rusher in the NFL?

7. Does Joe Douglas see the roster as competitive and, if not, does he have the guts to launch into a proper rebuild? 

 

 

1. Can Gase coach up Darnold?  Eh, to a degree

2. Is Darnold good enough to elevate the franchise by himself?   Yes

3. Does Le’Veon Bell still like football?   Hopefully he does for the next 2 years

3. Can Gregg Williams cobble together a functioning group of corners from the flotsam he was handed?  Trumaine Johnson will be better, but only if we can generate a pass rush

4. Is Leonard Williams any good?    Not good enough to justify forcing Quinnen into being the most overpaid, highest drafted NT in NFL history

5. How much of an impact will Gase’s and Williams’ disciplinarian shtick have on improving the performance of what was a lazy, entitled, unchecked roster the last four years?   Tangible impact until players tune them out.  Hopefully that day doesn't come for some time, and we win enough to delay it.

6. Is Quinnen Williams an elite pass rusher in the NFL?   Not at NT he won't be. 

7. Does Joe Douglas see the roster as competitive and, if not, does he have the guts to launch into a proper rebuild?   We'll have no choice.  We need a brand new offense surrounding Darnold by 2021. 

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12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

1. Can Gase coach up Darnold?

2. Is Darnold good enough to elevate the franchise by himself?

3. Does Le’Veon Bell still like football?

3. Can Gregg Williams cobble together a functioning group of corners from the flotsam he was handed?

4. Is Leonard Williams any good?

5. How much of an impact will Gase’s and Williams’ disciplinarian shtick have on improving the performance of what was a lazy, entitled, unchecked roster the last four years?

6. Is Quinnen Williams an elite pass rusher in the NFL?

7. Does Joe Douglas see the roster as competitive and, if not, does he have the guts to launch into a proper rebuild? 

 

These are the real questions... Players staying healthy are unpredictable... hence why depth is important. 

Especially that last question should be more, What does JD need to do to this roster to make it competitive?  I am not sure he would have taken the job if he didn't think they had some core pieces to build around.

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14 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

 

Lastly, I wonder how different the perception of the Jets draft would have been had they taken Chase Winovich instead of Jachai Polite.  

Change "Jets get a 'B' for the Polite pick" to "Jets get a 'B' for the Winovich pick" 

Change "Pats get an 'A' for the steal-of-the-draft Winovich pick" to "Pats get an 'A' for the steal-of-the-draft Polite pick".

There you have it.

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Biggest question for me - how much of an impact will having a competent (notice I didn't say great, good, etc.) coaching staff and front office have on our ability to compete week in and week out?

It's been so long since we've had a competent duo in those regards I literally don't remember the impact it can have on a franchises odds for success.

Since 2000 these are our coaches.  

image.png.7b1d6b9576bec419c5bfc1b7324f4d37.png

 

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24 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

Biggest question for me - how much of an impact will having a competent (notice I didn't say great, good, etc.) coaching staff and front office have on our ability to compete week in and week out?

It's been so long since we've had a competent duo in those regards I literally don't remember the impact it can have on a franchises odds for success.

Since 2000 these are our coaches.  

image.png.7b1d6b9576bec419c5bfc1b7324f4d37.png

 

excellent point.  imo the gase/williams combo is better than any since 2000.

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On 6/30/2019 at 9:43 PM, T0mShane said:

1. Can Gase coach up Darnold?

2. Is Darnold good enough to elevate the franchise by himself?

3. Does Le’Veon Bell still like football?

3. Can Gregg Williams cobble together a functioning group of corners from the flotsam he was handed?

4. Is Leonard Williams any good?

5. How much of an impact will Gase’s and Williams’ disciplinarian shtick have on improving the performance of what was a lazy, entitled, unchecked roster the last four years?

6. Is Quinnen Williams an elite pass rusher in the NFL?

7. Does Joe Douglas see the roster as competitive and, if not, does he have the guts to launch into a proper rebuild? 

 

1. Yes

2.  I think so

3. Anybody's guess. the money is in the bank

3.  Two Number 3's.  No.  That will be up to Douglas

4.  Remains to be seen.  This answer might be linked with question 5 to some extent

5. Jets have been bumping along on their asses for too long.  I think the energy will be picked up

6.  Yes.... I hope.... yes. I am confident, I think

7.  At 6 years 3 million per, he can do it any way he likes.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

4. Is Leonard Williams any good?    Not good enough to justify forcing Quinnen into being the most overpaid, highest drafted NT in NFL history

6. Is Quinnen Williams an elite pass rusher in the NFL?   Not at NT he won't be. 

So I'm guessing you don't like the comparison of Williams to Donald? He's pretty good at NTing.

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To me the health of the WR group will be an important issue.  If this group can stay healthy, Sam will have a good group of targets.  However, a couple of injuries to Q and Crowder, etc, and we're back where we were last year as far as the WRs go.

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7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

5. How much of an impact will Gase’s and Williams’ disciplinarian shtick have on improving the performance of what was a lazy, entitled, unchecked roster the last four years?   Tangible impact until players tune them out. 

Paging general manager Douglas. Mr. Douglas please pick up the nearest courtesy phone. Players who don't buy in will be bounced based on Gase's Miami tenure.

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19 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

In another attempt to start some real football related discussion I think they following are the biggest question marks for this season aside from the obvious (e.g., will Sam make a big jump, can Harrison play center, what will Bell bring to the offense?)

  • Was Trumaine really hurt last year?  Was he playing in a system that wasn't a good fit for him?  Can Greg Williams get him back to all-pro form?  Can he at least get him to be solid?
  • Can Marcus Maye stay healthy?  That's a big ?  The secondary desperately needs him to return to form and not have a guy like Daryl Roberts back there.  I think Maye could be even better in Williams's defense.
  • Can Q stay healthy?  Q, Anderson and Crowder are much better than just Anderson and Crowder.  The dynamic his big body brings to the receiving corps is significant.  I'm not suggesting Anderson, Crowder, Herndon and Bell won't be good but I really like what Q brings to the group.
  • Can anyone replace Brian Winters?  Tom Compton?  A vet pickup?  Chuma?  I just think Winters does very little for the running game and won't help Harrison.
  • Will Nate Sheppard contribute?  Remember, Bilal Powell played in two games in his rookie year and had a total of 21 yards (1.6 ypc) and everyone on this site said he sucked and was ready to give his job to a 6th round pick Terry Gannaway who had 0 yards in his career.  I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Sheppard.  

Lastly, I wonder how different the perception of the Jets draft would have been had they taken Chase Winovich instead of Jachai Polite.  

  • Yes, Tru was hurt last year. This year will be a prove it year for him, either way we can't cut him for the next 2 years due to guaranteed money. My opinion, he comes back to something close to his 2016 form under Williams. Watching him on the practice field, he is always competing and talking sh*t with Adams. He is also an absolute beast in the weight room, his work out vids are insane.
  • Maye won't play 16 games. The is how many games will he miss. 
  • I really think you are going to see Gase try and limit Q as much as he can. He has already came out publicly stating he has told Q to just go down in certain situations to avoid injury. 
  • Keep your fingers crossed with the OLINE. I have no comment for that lol
  • When evaluating Sheppard take where he got drafted out of your mind. He most likely is a JAG. You are not ready to throw the towel in just yet due to where he was drafted, nothing else.
  • **** Chase Winovich, I think Polite is gonna be a steal

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10 hours ago, slats said:

They can afford to pay Leo while Q is on his rookie deal, the trick is Leo earning that contract. 

I wonder what Leo's year would have to look like in order for him to get his extension here. 50 tackles, 10 sacks? Can you give him $14mm per for four years if he puts up six sacks this year?

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1 hour ago, Rsherman28 said:
  • Yes, Tru was hurt last year. This year will be a prove it year for him, either way we can't cut him for the next 2 years due to guaranteed money. My opinion, he comes back to something close to his 2016 form under Williams. Watching him on the practice field, he is always competing and talking sh*t with Adams. He is also an absolute beast in the weight room, his work out vids are insane.
  • Maye won't play 16 games. The is how many games will he miss. 
  • I really think you are going to see Gase try and limit Q as much as he can. He has already came out publicly stating he has told Q to just go down in certain situations to avoid injury. 
  • Keep your fingers crossed with the OLINE. I have no comment for that lol
  • When evaluating Sheppard take where he got drafted out of your mind. He most likely is a JAG. You are not ready to throw the towel in just yet due to where he was drafted, nothing else.
  • **** Chase Winovich, I think Polite is gonna be a steal

I have seen two workout vids of Tru and I thought the same thing. It does seem like he is still a competitor. I'm one who really had issue with Rodgers' defensive schemes last season. He was an old head with antiquated thinking. Neither he or Bowles had the ability to adjust during the game either. It seemed like the DB's were consistently out of position or confused to me. I am looking for Tru to bounce back and at least be a quality CB for us this season. That will be incredibly helpful. 

I get the concern, but Maye can very well stay healthy all season. He's still young and really only had the one season where he wasn't available. He played in every game his rookie year getting injured at the end IIRC.  I'm concerned too, but I think labeling him as injury prone is still a bit premature.  At least that's what I'm hoping. This could all be a distant memory with him being a consistent starter for us. ALL DAY MAYE!! :P  

I didn't see the news on Gase limiting Q at all yet. We have had a few discussions on JN about just that subject though. I think it's smart and I'm happy to hear you read something about that sort of thing. If Q and Crowder stay healthy that is going to be really helpful toward Sam's development. I see us taking a big WR early in next years draft too though. 

The OL will be better at minimum. I heard a Raider fan call in to an NFL radio show recently who was livid about the KO trade.  He saw Tom cable as the problem and was upset that KO was gone. That's good to hear. He will most likely play better than Carpenter and Pollack and Frazier are going to give the other guys like Winters, Harrison and Shell a real opportunity to be coached up.  Either way we will upgrade the OL this offseason and this OL has a middle of the pack ceiling IMO.  I'm legitimately concerned what guys like Miles Garret are gonna do to Beachum and while he's decent, I'm not in love with him or Harrison. It's concerning and I'm just hoping they can be serviceable. Sam's life and our whole season depends on it. 

I think I may be the last Shepard fan left on here.lol  I like him and think his ceiling is that long term back up type of guy who comes in and is solid. We need guys like that and I see him clogging the running lanes pretty effectively when he's in there. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do with Andre Carter's tutelage. Like you said though he is basically on a one year trial with this staff, but I think he sticks and plays well for us. 

Polite is one of the biggest X factors for us.  He may just be a complete shlub who never finds the motivation to play in the NFL or he could be the guy we've been looking for since Pryce.  lol   Since Abraham.  The good news is that he definitely has the talent so we actually have a guy in camp who could legitimately be lightning in a bottle.  If he plays anywhere near the level he did at Florida he could be an amazing asset to clean up the collapsing pocket from the Williams bros. 

These are good questions from the OP. Good stuff man. 

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17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I wonder what Leo's year would have to look like in order for him to get his extension here. 50 tackles, 10 sacks? Can you give him $14mm per for four years if he puts up six sacks this year?

Can he be tagged?

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Will my seats go from gold to platinum?

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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I wonder what Leo's year would have to look like in order for him to get his extension here. 50 tackles, 10 sacks? Can you give him $14mm per for four years if he puts up six sacks this year?

If he puts up 6 in this defense, then he provbably stinks

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3 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

I have seen two workout vids of Tru and I thought the same thing. It does seem like he is still a competitor. I'm one who really had issue with Rodgers' defensive schemes last season. He was an old head with antiquated thinking. Neither he or Bowles had the ability to adjust during the game either. It seemed like the DB's were consistently out of position or confused to me. I am looking for Tru to bounce back and at least be a quality CB for us this season. That will be incredibly helpful. 

I get the concern, but Maye can very well stay healthy all season. He's still young and really only had the one season where he wasn't available. He played in every game his rookie year getting injured at the end IIRC.  I'm concerned too, but I think labeling him as injury prone is still a bit premature.  At least that's what I'm hoping. This could all be a distant memory with him being a consistent starter for us. ALL DAY MAYE!! :P  

I didn't see the news on Gase limiting Q at all yet. We have had a few discussions on JN about just that subject though. I think it's smart and I'm happy to hear you read something about that sort of thing. If Q and Crowder stay healthy that is going to be really helpful toward Sam's development. I see us taking a big WR early in next years draft too though. 

The OL will be better at minimum. I heard a Raider fan call in to an NFL radio show recently who was livid about the KO trade.  He saw Tom cable as the problem and was upset that KO was gone. That's good to hear. He will most likely play better than Carpenter and Pollack and Frazier are going to give the other guys like Winters, Harrison and Shell a real opportunity to be coached up.  Either way we will upgrade the OL this offseason and this OL has a middle of the pack ceiling IMO.  I'm legitimately concerned what guys like Miles Garret are gonna do to Beachum and while he's decent, I'm not in love with him or Harrison. It's concerning and I'm just hoping they can be serviceable. Sam's life and our whole season depends on it. 

I think I may be the last Shepard fan left on here.lol  I like him and think his ceiling is that long term back up type of guy who comes in and is solid. We need guys like that and I see him clogging the running lanes pretty effectively when he's in there. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do with Andre Carter's tutelage. Like you said though he is basically on a one year trial with this staff, but I think he sticks and plays well for us. 

Polite is one of the biggest X factors for us.  He may just be a complete shlub who never finds the motivation to play in the NFL or he could be the guy we've been looking for since Pryce.  lol   Since Abraham.  The good news is that he definitely has the talent so we actually have a guy in camp who could legitimately be lightning in a bottle.  If he plays anywhere near the level he did at Florida he could be an amazing asset to clean up the collapsing pocket from the Williams bros. 

These are good questions from the OP. Good stuff man. 

I think Gase feels--as i have---that Q and maye get hurt because they play TOO hard.  And for people who think that is impossible, it is not.  Q never stops, and those bubble screens were killing him. He was playing running back as a wideout.  Maye's hits are unnecessarily violent

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29 minutes ago, jack48 said:

I think Gase feels--as i have---that Q and maye get hurt because they play TOO hard.  And for people who think that is impossible, it is not.  Q never stops, and those bubble screens were killing him. He was playing running back as a wideout.  Maye's hits are unnecessarily violent

Interesting.  That will be quite the task to be able to effectively get players to change aspects of their game like that and not risk them losing something.  I would think a player like Maye having to think about pulling up when going in for a tackle could negatively affect his ability to make the play. I suppose that's why they get paid the big bucks eh?  

 It's smart to place attention to things like that of course, but I will be very curious to see how that works out. Obviously we would want both of those players to be able to remain healthy as it will greatly improve our chances to field a competitive team. If our coaching staff can pull off having those players retain their effectiveness while playing smarter and staying healthy it will be a legit accomplishment.  Let's hope they have the chops for it. 

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8 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Interesting.  That will be quite the task to be able to effectively get players to change aspects of their game like that and not risk them losing something.  I would think a player like Maye having to think about pulling up when going in for a tackle could negatively affect his ability to make the play. I suppose that's why they get paid the big bucks eh?  

 It's smart to place attention to things like that of course, but I will be very curious to see how that works out. Obviously we would want both of those players to be able to remain healthy as it will greatly improve our chances to field a competitive team. If our coaching staff can pull off having those players retain their effectiveness while playing smarter and staying healthy it will be a legit accomplishment.  Let's hope they have the chops for it. 

I know Gase has asked Q to go down sooner than he does at times.  As for Maye, to throw the hits he does takes conscious effort.  I do not think it would slow him down to make hard effective tackles.  There is an element of intimidation in his approach, and I do not think it is needed.  Sure there are times you want to level some clown in a crossing pattern, but you do not need to land 20 yards out of bounds tryng ot nail guys on the sidelines. He just flies around way too much

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14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I wonder what Leo's year would have to look like in order for him to get his extension here. 50 tackles, 10 sacks? Can you give him $14mm per for four years if he puts up six sacks this year?

That would be a good deal if he produced like that. 

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15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I wonder what Leo's year would have to look like in order for him to get his extension here. 50 tackles, 10 sacks? Can you give him $14mm per for four years if he puts up six sacks this year?

Simple solution.  Trade Leo to the Knicks.

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I know Gase has asked Q to go down sooner than he does at times.  As for Maye, to throw the hits he does takes conscious effort.  I do not think it would slow him down to make hard effective tackles.  There is an element of intimidation in his approach, and I do not think it is needed.  Sure there are times you want to level some clown in a crossing pattern, but you do not need to land 20 yards out of bounds tryng ot nail guys on the sidelines. He just flies around way too much

lol. Good point about landing OOB.

Yeah. It found just be chalked down to learning a little discipline I suppose. Playing intelligently. There didn’t seem to much real coaching going on last year so that could really be helpful for guys like Maye.

We retained the DB coach Denard Wilsonfrom the Bowles regime so I’m not sure how possible that is or if he’s really a great coach just implementing what Bowles/Rodgers wanted.
Maybe Williams can coach up the Denard? lol.

It would be great to see those two guys last for a few years of 16 game seasons though. Oh... 19 game seasons I mean.


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