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Klecko 2020?


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On 7/2/2019 at 1:09 PM, bitonti said:

Joe Klecko made the most of the physical gifts he was given

Mark Gastineau was given world class physical gifts 

there's a difference

 

So Klecko is Chrebet, Gastineau is Keyshaun?

I agree with the thread, if they let 20 in the Hall this year, and Klecko does not get in, it's done.  He never gets in, period, and we may as well all stop whining about it.

This is his one and final shot at the Hall.

 

And sadly, if I had to bet.....he doesn't get in. :(

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On 7/6/2019 at 3:49 PM, GREENBEAN said:


Add to it that mark crossed the strike line. It was decided that day that he would never make the hall no matter what he did.

Everyone should know that he still holds that single season sack record. Favre laying down for Strahan is fine for what it was but no one laid down for gastineau. To think that he still has not been legitimately beaten is pretty insane.


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Many Vets crossed the line including Howie Long,Lawrence Taylor  and Joe Montana in fact only 4 teams didn't cross the line. Bears,Vikes,Eagles and Skins.. 

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On 7/6/2019 at 3:49 PM, GREENBEAN said:

Add to it that mark crossed the strike line. It was decided that day that he would never make the hall no matter what he did.

Everyone should know that he still holds that single season sack record. Favre laying down for Strahan is fine for what it was but no one laid down for gastineau. To think that he still has not been legitimately beaten is pretty insane.

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So by "legitimate" do you really mean "cheated his ass off by doping up with steroids"?

From ESPN Classic:

Quote

Off the field, Gastineau was no saint. He used anabolic steroids while playing for the Jets and was convicted for drug possession in 1993. He has a history of domestic violence against women. He served 11 months on Rikers Island for violating probation after assaulting a girlfriend who became his second wife.

In 1988, while still married to his first wife Lisa, Gastineau announced his engagement to actress Brigitte Nielsen, with whom he later fathered a son. But the couple split amongst hushed talk that Gastineau physically abused her. Gastineau later attributed his problems with women to his abuse of steroids.

Yeah, "legitimate" my ass.  About as legit as McGuire, Sosa and Bonds.

That and sacks were only counted since 1982.  Poor Deacon Jones:

Quote

"The NFL sent me a trophy that says Deacon Jones, in 1967, had 26 sacks on the quarterback in a 14-game season," Jones said. "They won't say it nowhere else. I had 50 sacks in a two-year period from 1967 to 1968. I had 24 in 1968. I demolished this league."

So yeah, "legitimate" right?

Never mind that Gastineau was a serial abuser of women, a fact that would have him kicked out of the modern NFL.

All that before we get to how he cost us the Browns game.....

Maybe your idol worship is aimed at the wrong kind of guy.

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Just now, bitonti said:

that's a decent comparison and while I also love 80, anyone who says they'd rather have Wayne over Key is a damn fool 

That always cracks me up when fans tell me Wayne was better than key.  We all love Wayne but keyshawn was so much better than him n it's not fair to discuss them.

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52 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So Klecko is Chrebet, Gastineau is Keyshaun?

I agree with the thread, if they let 20 in the Hall this year, and Klecko does not get in, it's done.  He never gets in, period, and we may as well all stop whining about it.

This is his one and final shot at the Hall.

 

And sadly, if I had to bet.....he doesn't get in. :(

I get the point but klecko was a great player during his era, Wayne was a good player.  Wayne was never great.

 

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So yeah, "legitimate" right?

Never mind that Gastineau was a serial abuser of women, a fact that would have him kicked out of the modern NFL.

All that before we get to how he cost us the Browns game.....

Maybe your idol worship is aimed at the wrong kind of guy.

Yes. That’s what I meant. I was creating a magical world where mark Gastineau was the sole abuser of steroids in a league of saints. Then I was pointing out that favre lying down on the field with his legs open wasn’t a laughable atrocity that no talking head mentioned once. Ahhh. To read deeply into the chosen alternating realities of the grumbly old timers.

 

Edit: I’ll add that it was a comment. Not idol worship such as your melodramatic brain likes to take things. Seems like you may have a little bit of an issue with this one man. Take a breath.

And isn’t deacon jones in the hall? I’m not sure what your getting at.

 

And the original point stands.

 

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Many Vets crossed the line including Howie Long,Lawrence Taylor  and Joe Montana in fact only 4 teams didn't cross the line. Bears,Vikes,Eagles and Skins.. 

Hmmm. I remember it being such a big deal about him crossing the picket line. Then again I was 10 or 11 reading NY post articles at the time.




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So Klecko is Chrebet, Gastineau is Keyshaun?
I agree with the thread, if they let 20 in the Hall this year, and Klecko does not get in, it's done.  He never gets in, period, and we may as well all stop whining about it.
This is his one and final shot at the Hall.
 
And sadly, if I had to bet.....he doesn't get in.

Unfortunately I agree. I have hope that he can get In this year but if I’m being honest I don’t see it happening.

But you’re right. If it’s not this time with 20 guys getting in, this one is a wrap.


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1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:

Yes. That’s what I meant. I was creating a magical world where mark Gastineau was the sole abuser of steroids in a league of saints. Then I was pointing out that favre lying down on the field with his legs open wasn’t a laughable atrocity that no talking head mentioned once. Ahhh. To read deeply into the chosen alternating realities of the grumbly old timers.

 

Edit: I’ll add that it was a comment. Not idol worship such as your melodramatic brain likes to take things. Seems like you may have a little bit of an issue with this one man. Take a breath.

And isn’t deacon jones in the hall? I’m not sure what your getting at.

 

And the original point stands.

 

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Your original point was 100% inaccurate.  No melodrama, just facts.

You described Gastinau as the "legitimate" record holder for sacks in a single season. 

He isn't, by any chosen metric you wish to use:

-He's a documented admitted cheater, just like Tom Brady, therefore his record when earned was not legitimate.

-The stat was only counted after 1982.  People prior to 1982 had more sacks than he did.

-"Lay down" or not, the current record holder is Strahan.  Not liking it doesn't make it illegitimate.  

No "issue" with the guy, other than him being a serial woman-beating scumbag who cost us the Browns game and a shot at a title.

Nothing personal Greenbean ol' pal.  Just the facts.  If he were a player for anyone, like say the Pats, he'd be amongst the most hated by Jets fans.

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Your original point was 100% inaccurate.  No melodrama, just facts.

You described Gastinau as the "legitimate" record holder for sacks in a single season. 

He isn't, by any chosen metric you wish to use:

-He's a documented admitted cheater, just like Tom Brady, therefore his record when earned was not legitimate.

-The stat was only counted after 1982.  People prior to 1982 had more sacks than he did.

-"Lay down" or not, the current record holder is Strahan.  Not liking it doesn't make it illegitimate.  

No "issue" with the guy, other than him being a serial woman-beating scumbag who cost us the Browns game and a shot at a title.

Nothing personal Greenbean ol' pal.  Just the facts.

Documented?  Was Gastineau ever suspended for cheating?  

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 People Comparing Klecko to Chrebet and Gastineau to Keyshaun probably never watched a snap of the 2 players. 

Klecko was one of the best all around Defensive lineman of his time and Gastineau was not even close to him in any regard other than one stat and that was Sacks. Joe Klecko had numerous sacks the first 5 years of his career that were not even counted and I believe one year he had 20 1/2 sacks just a few off Gastineau's record. Gastineau got trapped in the running game over and over and over and he never adjusted and yes it was a big issue at the time with both players and coaches Gastineau was not very well liked by his own teammates due to his selfish nature both on and off the field all he cared about was sacks and he was very below average in the running game which at the time was a huge part of most offenses. Gastineau was a one dimensional player who in today's NFL would have only been a specialist as a 3rd down pass rusher.

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29 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Your original point was 100% inaccurate.  No melodrama, just facts.

You described Gastinau as the "legitimate" record holder for sacks in a single season. 

He isn't, by any chosen metric you wish to use:

-He's a documented admitted cheater, just like Tom Brady, therefore his record when earned was not legitimate.

-The stat was only counted after 1982.  People prior to 1982 had more sacks than he did.

-"Lay down" or not, the current record holder is Strahan.  Not liking it doesn't make it illegitimate.  

No "issue" with the guy, other than him being a serial woman-beating scumbag who cost us the Browns game and a shot at a title.

Nothing personal Greenbean ol' pal.  Just the facts.

With all due respect if you make that comment about Gastineau you have to make it about Strahan as well. Also Deacon Jones is another player who Gastineau should not be mentioned in the same breath along with Klecko and Strahan

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Nobody came close to stopping Klecko in 1981. He earned a trip to the Pro Bowl and was named Sports Illustrated’s NFL Player of the Year after leading the league and setting a club record with 20.5 sacks. Playing through a sprained foot, he also registered 107 tackles (72 solos).

107 Tackles ? That's just insane for a DE this may have been the single best season ever by a DL

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Klecko was more of a stay at home DT DE that had super strength for a man his size.

I remember him having stretches in games where he just wrecked o-lines no matter who tried to block him.

I think he played at about 265 most of his career. He would be a tweener in todays game but I think he could still excel with todays training methods. Contrary to what many think he was every bit the athlete Gastineau was so this Chrebet / Keyshawn analogy is nonsense. I think he should be a hall of fame guy but maybe some people still hold his conviction for insurance fraud against him and will keep him out.

Gastineau's game was pure speed. Of course he was strong but speed is what got him to the QB and with the exception of LT nobody did it better during that time.

He was a pure pass rusher and one of the best ever. He was the first rock star DE in the NFL.

I think Mark would be the first to admit he made a bunch of mistakes in his personal life and career but hey he was a country boy who came into money and NYC was his playground. I couldnt honestly say if I were him I would have done better.

Here is something to ponder.

What would either of these guys get paid in todays NFL if they were free agents at the peak of their careers??

Who would get paid more?

Gastineau?

Klecko?

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is cheating is ok as long as you don't get suspended? 

You said documented and admitted.  I was just asking about your "documentation." I am with you on the domestic violence stuff, but steroids are a part of football. Acting like that should keep someone out of the HOF is like saying they should strip Brock Lesnar's WWE titles for steroid use.  Pretty sure Klecko isn't a choir boy on that front either.

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1 minute ago, Kleckineau said:

Klecko was more of a stay at home DT DE that had super strength for a man his size.

I remember him having stretches in games where he just wrecked o-lines no matter who tried to block him.

I think he played at about 265 most of his career. He would be a tweener in todays game but I think he could still excel with todays training methods. Contrary to what many think he was every bit the athlete Gastineau was so this Chrebet / Keyshawn analogy is nonsense. I think he should be a hall of fame guy but maybe some people still hold his conviction for insurance fraud against him and will keep him out.

Gastineau's game was pure speed. Of course he was strong but speed is what got him to the QB and with the exception of LT nobody did it better during that time.

He was a pure pass rusher and one of the best ever. He was the first rock star DE in the NFL.

I think Mark would be the first to admit he made a bunch of mistakes in his personal life and career but hey he was a country boy who came into money and NYC was his playground. I couldnt honestly say if I were him I would have done better.

Here is something to ponder.

What would either of these guys get paid in todays NFL if they were free agents at the peak of their careers??

Who would get paid more?

Gastineau?

Klecko?

 

 

Great post.  The answer of course is: @Kleckineau

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35 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You said documented and admitted.  I was just asking about your "documentation." I am with you on the domestic violence stuff, but steroids are a part of football. Acting like that should keep someone out of the HOF is like saying they should strip Brock Lesnar's WWE titles for steroid use.  Pretty sure Klecko isn't a choir boy on that front either.

The entire point was that he is not the "legitimate" sack leader no matter how you slice it.  And he was a very bad human being to boot.

I know he's suffering now, and that sucks, and I hope he gets better.  But I don't like him, and I don't see any need for Jets fans to try and presume some "legacy" of his here.   His bad outweighs his good IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The entire point was that he is not the "legitimate" sack leader no matter how you slice it.  And he was a very bad human being to boot.

I know he's suffering now, and that sucks, and I hope he gets better.  But I don't like him, and I don't see any need for Jets fans to try and presume some "legacy" of his here.   His bad outweighs his good IMO.

Seems like a strange point to make what with the Teddy Bruschi thread going on. 

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9 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

Jets fans hate Mark Gastineau for tons of reasons. number one is probably the late hit on Bernie Kosar in Cleveland, which was a bonehead play. also quitting on the team and becoming a boxer and dating brigitte neilsen or whoever she was made him dead to the fanbase

but these posts talking about the "Dirty Work" of the Dline is whitewashing the reality that 99 held the season sack record, still holds it as @GREENBEAN points out and given a choice every coach in the league would take peak Gastineau over peak Klecko...  He had 22.5 sacks in a season!!! and invented the sack dance

you take him every day and twice on Sundays over 73. Klecko stopping the run is awesome etc but it's all about sacks, then and even more now.   

Klecko by the way is a convicted tax cheat and that doesn't help his Hall of Fame case. It brings me no joy to bring this up. But it's something voters take into account, plus the fact that NEITHER won a RING dooms their chances, forever. 

I'll tell you another reason why Gastineau is not loved by Jets fans.  The Jets could be losing by a score of 55 to 0, and Gastineau gets a sack and then does his sack dance like the Jets just won the Super Bowl.  He was a selfish player who only cared about getting his sacks, and winning the game seemed secondary to him.  The sack dance became an aggravation to his teammates and fans when he danced when the team was getting killed.

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13 hours ago, Alka said:

I'll tell you another reason why Gastineau is not loved by Jets fans.  The Jets could be losing by a score of 55 to 0, and Gastineau gets a sack and then does his sack dance like the Jets just won the Super Bowl.  He was a selfish player who only cared about getting his sacks, and winning the game seemed secondary to him.  The sack dance became an aggravation to his teammates and fans when he danced when the team was getting killed.

He helped create the modern primadonna NFL. 

The league where players routinely posture like runway models over minor plays during lopsided defeats.

I know some fans love it, and to each their own I suppose.  I hate it.  Legit big meaningful play in close game, sure.  A meaningless tackle down 42-3, for God's sake, just stop.

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He helped create the modern primadonna NFL. 

The league where players routinely posture like runway models over minor plays during lopsided defeats.

I know some fans love it, and to each their own I suppose.  I hate it.  Legit big meaningful play in close game, sure.  A meaningless tackle down 42-3, for God's sake, just stop.

There are no minor plays.  Every play is a battle.  If you win, you get to crow a little.  If you don't like it, stop me.

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14 hours ago, Alka said:

I'll tell you another reason why Gastineau is not loved by Jets fans.  The Jets could be losing by a score of 55 to 0, and Gastineau gets a sack and then does his sack dance like the Jets just won the Super Bowl.  He was a selfish player who only cared about getting his sacks, and winning the game seemed secondary to him.  The sack dance became an aggravation to his teammates and fans when he danced when the team was getting killed.

Somewhere in Klecko's and Fields' book, this is discussed. Klecko telling opposing OL 'yeah hes an asswipe' or something like that. Klecko didn't like him. I don't think any teammates did. 

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Your original point was 100% inaccurate.  No melodrama, just facts.
You described Gastinau as the "legitimate" record holder for sacks in a single season. 
He isn't, by any chosen metric you wish to use:
-He's a documented admitted cheater, just like Tom Brady, therefore his record when earned was not legitimate.
-The stat was only counted after 1982.  People prior to 1982 had more sacks than he did.
-"Lay down" or not, the current record holder is Strahan.  Not liking it doesn't make it illegitimate.  
No "issue" with the guy, other than him being a serial woman-beating scumbag who cost us the Browns game and a shot at a title.
Nothing personal Greenbean ol' pal.  Just the facts.  If he were a player for anyone, like say the Pats, he'd be amongst the most hated by Jets fans.

Yeah yeah yeah. lol

So would it make it more palatable to you if the original post said. “Since they started recording sacks as a stat?”
You can’t fault the guy for having the record since they started recording it.

Where are these documents of cheating you speak of? You’re talking about steroids. I have no idea how many players weren’t using some sort of performance enhancers but I can confidently say he was not alone in that group.

That’s kind of a silly argument. Some guys get caught and most don’t. Both parties are still using it though. What about pain meds? Is it cheating to flood your body with endorphins and dopamine to trick the brain into not feeling an injury?

Look, I was as disheartened by where marks career went as anyone, but that guy was an animal. The absolute best of his kind in his day or since. Favre laying on the ground for strahan does not remove that.


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17 hours ago, Alka said:

I'll tell you another reason why Gastineau is not loved by Jets fans.  The Jets could be losing by a score of 55 to 0, and Gastineau gets a sack and then does his sack dance like the Jets just won the Super Bowl.  He was a selfish player who only cared about getting his sacks, and winning the game seemed secondary to him.  The sack dance became an aggravation to his teammates and fans when he danced when the team was getting killed.

the way I saw it the team getting killed Mark doing a Sack dance was the only bright spot on the day 

there's no dignity in defeat at least leave a mark 

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5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

There are no minor plays.  Every play is a battle.  If you win, you get to crow a little.  If you don't like it, stop me.

Why stop you from making yourself look like an arrogant self-centered fool?

By all means, proceed to gloat.  I'd just point to the scoreboard and smile.

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23 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Klecko was more of a stay at home DT DE that had super strength for a man his size.

I remember him having stretches in games where he just wrecked o-lines no matter who tried to block him.

I think he played at about 265 most of his career. He would be a tweener in todays game but I think he could still excel with todays training methods. Contrary to what many think he was every bit the athlete Gastineau was so this Chrebet / Keyshawn analogy is nonsense. I think he should be a hall of fame guy but maybe some people still hold his conviction for insurance fraud against him and will keep him out.

 

I won't get into it but that's not the reason why. Off the field issues should not be a factor, ie. LT. and others. Joe should be in the the Hall.

 

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1 hour ago, Apache 51 said:

I won't get into it but that's not the reason why. Off the field issues should not be a factor, ie. LT. and others. Joe should be in the the Hall.

I agree. Thats why I said maybe his legal trouble was a factor. Then what da hell is it then????

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On 7/3/2019 at 7:32 AM, TuscanyTile2 said:

Is there any hope that Klecko will get in, btw?  Or this is just us (correctly!) saying that he deserves it?

Zero chance.  He wasn’t that good.

Is David Wright a Hall of Famer?

SAR I

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6 hours ago, bitonti said:

the way I saw it the team getting killed Mark doing a Sack dance was the only bright spot on the day 

there's no dignity in defeat at least leave a mark 

Did you actually watch any of these games?  What you are saying doesn't make sense. 

I was at some of these games, and the fans were disgusted by Gastineau.  Fans could care less about Gastineau getting sacks when the game was meaningless.  He was a clown, and no-one liked it.  He wasn't a bright spot, it was garbage time on the field, and no one cared about his sacks when the game was basically over.

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