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Walt Michaels dead at 89

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33 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Walt Michaels would have been given a chance to get sober before getting fired if he was coaching today. Good coach, should have been helped and kept on. Oh and the mud had nothing to do with Todd throwing passes to A.J. Duhe.

 

It had plenty to do with Todd throwing passes at all, instead of McNeill weaving through the Killer Bees.

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:
 

It had plenty to do with Todd throwing passes at all, instead of McNeill weaving through the Killer Bees.

5 times? Really 5 ints. 3 to a DE, not Todds fault ....at all ? 

There was 2 teams playing in the same conditions and if I remember Miami rushed for about 140.

Todd was Mark Sanchez before there was a Mark Sanchez

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10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:
 

It had plenty to do with Todd throwing passes at all, instead of McNeill weaving through the Killer Bees.

Exactly, you couldn't run in that slop. 

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Just now, Kleckineau said:

5 times? Really 5 ints. 3 to a DE, not Todds fault ....at all ? 

There was 2 teams playing in the same conditions and if I remember Miami rushed for about 140.

Todd was Mark Sanchez before there was a Mark Sanchez

Mark Sanchez is the franchise leader in playoff wins.  Mark Sanchez threw a total of 3 ints in 6 road playoff games (1 was a garbage time pick at end of 09 title game).

Mark Sanchez in 6 playoff games threw 9 TDs and 3 INTs.  All road games.

Richard Todd had 2 playoff games with more than 3 ints, in 4 playoff games (3 on the road) he threw 4 TDs and 12 INTs.

Namath in 3 playoff games threw 3 tds and 4 ints.  2 home games, 1 neutral site.

Ken O'Brien in 2 playoff starts(plus coming in during 2nd qtr of 2 OT game) threw 2 TDs and 4 INTs.

Vinny in 3 starts (2 road, 1 home) threw 4 TDs and 3 INTs.

 

Can we please stop bashing Mark?

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45 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Walt Michaels would have been given a chance to get sober before getting fired if he was coaching today. Good coach, should have been helped and kept on. Oh and the mud had nothing to do with Todd throwing passes to A.J. Duhe.

It certainly did in a large way. Because of the mud, the downfield passing game (which is what the Jets were) was non-existent. The Jets had a match-up advantage of speed, and the mud helped negate that.

Really, as much as I recall, the Jets were not much of a screen passing team. and that is where Duhe wreaked his havoc that day.

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3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Exactly, you couldn't run in that slop. 

Miami rushed for 138 yards.

 

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3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It certainly did in a large way. Because of the mud, the downfield passing game (which is what the Jets were) was non-existent. The Jets had a match-up advantage of speed, and the mud helped negate that.

Really, as much as I recall, the Jets were not much of a screen passing team. and that is where Duhe wreaked his havoc that day.

Excuses. Todd blew that game.

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2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Miami rushed for 138 yards.

 

Yeah, Woodley rushed for almost 50 of those yards as the qb.

The Dolphins used Franklin (a fullback) to just plow ahead for short yardage gains that day.

The Jets, on the other hand, relied on McNeil, who needed to cut and have footing. 

The mud played a huge advantage for Miami.

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Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Yeah, Woodley rushed for almost 50 of those yards as the qb.

The Dolphins used Franklin (a fullback) to just plow ahead for short yardage gains that day.

The Jets, on the other hand, relied on McNeil, who needed to cut and have footing. 

The mud played a huge advantage for Miami.

It did, they earned that advantage by sweeping us on good fields that year.

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6 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

5 times? Really 5 ints. 3 to a DE, not Todds fault ....at all ? 

There was 2 teams playing in the same conditions and if I remember Miami rushed for about 140.

Todd was Mark Sanchez before there was a Mark Sanchez

This thread should be respectful to the memory of Walt, so I will refrain from my usual tone.  I certainly wasn't absolving Todd, but the conditions hurt McNeill's abilty to juke.  The Jets relied on McNeil.  If you think Andra Franklin and Woody Bennet were the same style runner as McNeil I don't know what to tell you.  The Dolphins leading rusher was Woodley.  Isn't that a bit significant?

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2 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Excuses. Todd blew that game.

If you don't believe that the mud played a part in how that game was played, you either have forgotten, or did not know how the Jets operated in 1982. 

The Jets relied on speed and cutting (Walker, McNeil). The mud totally negated the ability to use those weapons.

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2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

It did, they earned that advantage by sweeping us on good fields that year.

Absolutely.

But, the Dolphins should have had a tarp on the field, as required by the rules. They did not even have one, as they thought it would affect the grass.

If that game was played in this day and age, the NFL would have been involved in care of the field, and they would have a tarp brought in. Just the way the NFL was in those days.

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6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Miami rushed for 138 yards.

 

Yay!  I knew you'd pipe up.  138 yards at 3.3 ypc.  Seems almost reasonable.  Except 46 were by Woodley.  Take his carries away and they were at 2.7 ypc.  Yep.  A regular smashmouth juggernaut.     

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2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Absolutely.

But, the Dolphins should have had a tarp on the field, as required by the rules. They did not even have one, as they thought it would affect the grass.

If that game was played in this day and age, the NFL would have been involved in care of the field, and they would have a tarp brought in. Just the way the NFL was in those days.

They should have but didn't NE do the same thing for a playoff game last decade?  It easy a muddy field but I believe they kept the tarp off during snow.

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yay!  I knew you'd pipe up.  138 yards at 3.3 ypc.  Seems almost reasonable.  Except 46 were by Woodley.  Take his carries away and they were at 2.7 ypc.  Yep.  A regular smashmouth juggernaut.     

Woodley could run, he may have been a better runner than passer.  This wasn't Tom Brady running for those yards.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

They should have but didn't NE do the same thing for a playoff game last decade?  It easy a muddy field but I believe they kept the tarp off during snow.

Woodley could run, he may have been a better runner than passer.  This wasn't Tom Brady running for those yards.

 

 

I am not positive that NE did not cover the field BEFORE the game. Not sure what game you are talking about. The NFL takes control of these things now.

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2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

This is partly true. It was a culmination of events at the end of the season that led to Michaels' demise:

-In the conference semi-final, the Jets had received a call in the lockerroom during halftime. Michaels believed it was the shenanigans of Al Davis. To disrupt them. Michaels seethed about Davis. (It was actually a bartender from his bar in Ny that called).

-In the final, Michaels was pissed about the field conditions. The Dolphins did not have a tarp, although rules said they should. He also complained about the Dolphins quality of tape that they sent. He and Shula were old teammates with I believe the Browns. Michaels went off on Shula. Yes, reports are he got drunk on the flight back.

-He did not show up for the teams final year end meeting.

Those together signaled the end for Michaels. The Jets intimated privately through the press that Michaels had an alcohol problem. Michaels, years later, claimed that it was medication that he was on, for a debilitating back condition that he had.

Enter, Joe Walton.

 

I remember it all very well and your description of the events are correct. I remember they started off the year in 1981 0-3 and then beat the Oilers at Shea and ended up 10-5-1. Joe Walton was horrible.

RIP Walt

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6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I am not positive that NE did not cover the field BEFORE the game. Not sure what game you are talking about. The NFL takes control of these things now.

I found it, it was rain and this was back when they had a grass field.  2004 divisional round.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-xpm-2005-01-13-0501130019-story,amp.html

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7 minutes ago, Ken Shroy said:

I remember it all very well and your description of the events are correct. I remember they started off the year in 1981 0-3 and then beat the Oilers at Shea and ended up 10-5-1. Joe Walton was horrible.

RIP Walt

One correction. The 1982 team (mud bowl year) was a strike year. The Jets did start 1-1 that year, and then the strike hit. They expanded the playoffs, and the Jets made it as a wild card at 6-3. 

1981 was the 10-5-1 team, and that was the team that came out flat against Buffalo in the first round of the playoffs, and fell behind early. They almost rallied to win at the end, but were intercepted at the goal line.

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5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I found it, it was rain and this was back when they had a grass field.  2004 divisional round.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-xpm-2005-01-13-0501130019-story,amp.html

Hard to believe, 2004 is another era too. The NFL would defintiely take control now. It may be because of that game.

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3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Hard to believe, 2004 is another era too. The NFL would defintiely take control now. It may be because of that game.

I guess it is, it's crazy that 2004 was 15 years ago.

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Walt Michaels' son, played linebacker at Kutztown. The reason Bruce Harper was a Jet is because Harper played at Kutztown at the same time and recommended him to his dad that he would make a great Jet.

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2 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

Was my favorite Jet Head coach up to Parcells. A hard nosed Ditka like field general who's teams took no $hit from anyone, went out and kicked the crap out of anyone who got in their way.

 

RIP Coach.

in many ways he was better than parcells.  he built those jets teams and they carried over into the walton era.  the jets were every bit as bad from 1973-1976 as they were under kotite and the most recent 6 seasons.  walt has nothing to apologize for.  rip.

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

In hindsight pp

It wasn't viewed that way back then.  Walton was the OC people were afraid would be signed away from the Jets. 

So Jets like 

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4 hours ago, Jetster said:

I love that story about him trying to get to Shula after the game. I guess he got trashed on the Jet home & was eventually fired. How badly do you think Walt wanted to punch Don Shula right in his broken nose?

He wasn't the only one! 

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undone by gamesmanship in 82. RIP, Walt

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59 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

If you don't believe that the mud played a part in how that game was played, you either have forgotten, or did not know how the Jets operated in 1982. 

The Jets relied on speed and cutting (Walker, McNeil). The mud totally negated the ability to use those weapons.

There are a few of them here. 

I’m guessing they never saw it and just rely on stats. 

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22 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

undone by gamesmanship in 82. RIP, Walt

Up until that AFC Championship it was an exciting season. Todd to Walker was magic.

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and even in the slop mcneils yp;c was bettern than CuMArs abysmal 98

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Mark Sanchez is the franchise leader in playoff wins.  Mark Sanchez threw a total of 3 ints in 6 road playoff games (1 was a garbage time pick at end of 09 title game).

Mark Sanchez in 6 playoff games threw 9 TDs and 3 INTs.  All road games.

Richard Todd had 2 playoff games with more than 3 ints, in 4 playoff games (3 on the road) he threw 4 TDs and 12 INTs.

Namath in 3 playoff games threw 3 tds and 4 ints.  2 home games, 1 neutral site.

Ken O'Brien in 2 playoff starts(plus coming in during 2nd qtr of 2 OT game) threw 2 TDs and 4 INTs.

Vinny in 3 starts (2 road, 1 home) threw 4 TDs and 3 INTs.

 

Can we please stop bashing Mark?

Bravo! Encore! (Throws Roses) 

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16 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

and even in the slop mcneils yp;c was bettern than CuMArs abysmal 98

Freeman played 8 playoff games, was under 3 YPC in 5 of those games. Curtis played 10 playoff games and was under 3 YPC one time.

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I found it, it was rain and this was back when they had a grass field.  2004 divisional round.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-xpm-2005-01-13-0501130019-story,amp.html

One of the only Dolphins losses in the Mud Bowl year (1982) was the snow plow game.  On a snowy field the game was 0-0 inside of five minutes and Ron Meyer had the snow plow operator clear a spot for the FG kicker and a sh*tty Pats won 3-0 even though Grogan had like 14 yards passing.  

Apparently Shula was incensed.  That prick.

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21 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Freeman played 8 playoff games, was under 3 YPC in 5 of those games. Curtis played 10 playoff games and was under 3 YPC one time.

cumars 200 yd playoff game?

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5 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

cumars 200 yd playoff game?

I love Freeman, one of my all time favorites.  He was awesome that day in Cincinnati and even threw for a TD.  I believe Freeman was the more talented runner but he could never stay healthy.  Curtis always fought through pain and played basically every week and produced.

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2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Miami rushed for 138 yards.

 

How many attempts? From what I remember the Jets punted constantly & could never get out of their own side of the field.

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