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The Crimson King

Greatest Player You ever Saw Play

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On 7/13/2019 at 11:48 PM, chirorob said:

I never saw Willie live, but everything I have ever read or seen in highlights, it wasn't just his hitting.   Great arm, all time great center fielder, literally just could do anything on a ball field.

When you talk about a 5 tool player, he is the standard. 

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Sadly I got to see guys like Mays, Clemente, and Gibson at the tail end of their careers.

Griffey Jr, Bonds (Pre-Steriods), were probably the best overall players I have seen.

 

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On 7/15/2019 at 11:08 AM, shawn306 said:

Sadly I got to see guys like Mays, Clemente, and Gibson at the tail end of their careers.

Griffey Jr, Bonds (Pre-Steriods), were probably the best overall players I have seen.

 

I completely forgot about Clemente. What a player.

I was in the SRO (imagine that) in the RF corner at Shea. It was the end of I want to say the 70 or 71 season. He made a throw from deep in the corner to third base. Perfect strike, The runner was going 1st to 3rd and was out by 5 feet.

It was mind boggling. Still the best throw I’ve ever seen by an outfielder.

BTW also saw Willie Stargell hit a HR off the Longines clock in CF. I don’t remember if it was the same day. What a bomb.

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On 7/12/2019 at 2:08 PM, Peace Frog said:

Oh geez, Doc Gooden just arrested for cocaine but I have to put him up there with one of the greatest players I ever saw.

I've met Doc a few times, really really good and humble guy but this just sucks.  

It's crazy, he was essentially done as a star by the time he was 23. 

By the time he could drink legally, he had thrown 744 innings in the majors.

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On 7/12/2019 at 2:10 PM, Peace Frog said:

Willie and Hank.  

Although I only saw Willie in person as a Met.

Saw Seaver, live, strike out 19 Padres, last 10 in a row. 

Longest homer I ever saw was Richie/Dick Allen.  Hit it about 20 rows into the parking lot at Shea. 

Same here ; Willie was the greatest i ever saw , live , but he was a shell of himself by then .

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I'm old enough to have seen guys that played from the 50's forward and my pick is the Mick.  His WS records alone will never be broken.  And yes, he was fortunate enough to have played in many.  Then again, so did a lot of players and the bottom line is you have to produce.  Just to pick out one of his records is 18 Hrs.  Not picking on Willie Mays, but he was in two fall classics and never hit one.  Mick's triple crown season was amazing.  Not only did he lead the AL, but also the NL as well.  Many of his 430 ft drives in the old Yankee stadium went for outs and easily could have been Hrs in other parks.  And before you bring up the "short porch", the Mick wasn't a pull hitter.  He was great as it was and no telling what records he could have broken if he wasn't shot by the time he was 33.  Before he died, even back then his memorabilia was worth a ton more than his counterparts of his era...if you never saw him play when he was healthy, you missed a lot.  

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Remember Manny coming into YS as a rookie on the Indians and was amazed. Best hitter I ever saw in person.

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Position player is easy.......Willie Mays. Very honorable mention to Henry Aaron, Ken Griffey jr, Michael Jack Schmidt and Mike Trout.    Pitcher.....the "franchise", Tom Seaver. Honorable mention to Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton and Greg Maddux.  Closer........the great Mariano. Honorable mention to "the Goose."

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A good sign that baseball has major problems is that no one has ever actually seen Mike Trout, no?

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I completely forgot about Clemente. What a player.
I was in the SRO (imagine that) in the RF corner at Shea. It was the end of I want to say the 70 or 71 season. He made a throw from deep in the corner to third base. Perfect strike, The runner was going 1st to 3rd and was out by 5 feet.
It was mind boggling. Still the best throw I’ve ever seen by an outfielder.


i think i was at that same game and remember that throw.
we were in the mez above RF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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On 7/15/2019 at 11:08 AM, shawn306 said:

Sadly I got to see guys like Mays, Clemente, and Gibson at the tail end of their careers.

Griffey Jr, Bonds (Pre-Steriods), were probably the best overall players I have seen.

 

Bonds before the roids was 30-40 hrs, 110+ Rbi .330+ BA every year and played the best CF in the game.

 

And he didn’t look like a giant steroid muscle freak

 

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On 7/22/2019 at 7:04 PM, T0mShane said:

A good sign that baseball has major problems is that no one has ever actually seen Mike Trout, no?

MLB is east coast centric kinda like how NBA is west coast centric 

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So how is it that we all saw Griffey but no one has seen Trout ? We have seen Trout probably more than we saw Griffey in his hey day in Seattle ?

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16 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

So how is it that we all saw Griffey but no one has seen Trout ? We have seen Trout probably more than we saw Griffey in his hey day in Seattle ?

Baseball is my favorite sport, but pro football is the only sport where I follow west coast teams. That’s because no game starts later then 830est, and most start at 4. I’ll watch highlights the next morning, but I’m not staying up to watch an Angels game that starts at 930. Same goes for hockey and basketball.

The west coast is like a different country to me when it comes to sports, lol.

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On 7/14/2019 at 6:49 AM, jack48 said:

a more feared hitter. But the best player? I would say no.  One guy I would consider is Mickey Mantle.  Until he could not run well anymore he was a scary, exciting player, and pretty good from both sides. He was faster than Mays and had prodicious power.  I only saw Williams late, but he was a hitter primarily. Boy could he hit.  What is interesting is that I tend to go back to the 50s and 60s for the best players I have seen.  I have seen almost nothing of Trout, for instance.  But my favorite players seem to dwell in my youth

I’m a Mets fan, but like a lot of kids from my era growing up in NY, I idolized Mantle. Everybody wanted #7 in Little League. I got it a lot, because I played CF.

i made the high school varsity as a freshman, and an older kid had #7. I told my buddies I’d take #14, because I was twice as good as him. One of them let that get out, and the kid kicked my ass, lol.

I liked the number though, and stuck with it through college. Hell, I even use it on a football message board....

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1 hour ago, shawn306 said:

So how is it that we all saw Griffey but no one has seen Trout ? We have seen Trout probably more than we saw Griffey in his hey day in Seattle ?

Its not that we haven't seen Trout.  Speaking for myself, at least, greatest ever type questions become more nostalgic -- made me think back to the heroes I had when growing up.  As a Met fan in the late 60s/early 70s, the only Met that deserves consdieration for a thread like this is Seaver.  And then I immediatley thought about the guys he faced.  Aaron, Mays, Clemente.  Those were the guys that came to mind.  Not guys like Trout that i could have watched this past weekend. 

Great player, but I gotta see how the rest of his career plays out before talking about him in a greatest ever discussion.

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1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

I’m a Mets fan, but like a lot of kids from my era growing up in NY, I idolized Mantle. Everybody wanted #7 in Little League. I got it a lot, because I played CF.

i made the high school varsity as a freshman, and an older kid had #7. I told my buddies I’d take #14, because I was twice as good as him. One of them let that get out, and the kid kicked my ass, lol.

I liked the number though, and stuck with it through college. Hell, I even use it on a football message board....

I was a Dodger fan way back when,but I never idolized Snider, who was a damned good power hitter.  I did not like Mays because he was a Giant.  He was very flashy, unlike Mickey.  But a healthy Mickey was a better player.  He just was not healthy all the time

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43 minutes ago, jack48 said:

I was a Dodger fan way back when,but I never idolized Snider, who was a damned good power hitter.  I did not like Mays because he was a Giant.  He was very flashy, unlike Mickey.  But a healthy Mickey was a better player.  He just was not healthy all the time

Didn't Mr. Statistics, Bill James, argue for Mantle based on OPS?  My Dad is a huge Mantle fan and will probably fight any of you about it.  My  memory is only of Mickey at old timer's day and Willie playing in the outfield with Cleon Jones.  

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38 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Didn't Mr. Statistics, Bill James, argue for Mantle based on OPS?  My Dad is a huge Mantle fan and will probably fight any of you about it.  My  memory is only of Mickey at old timer's day and Willie playing in the outfield with Cleon Jones.  

I saw Willie play from a few years after he came up. I was probebly 6 or 7, though.  He was great.  He hit a load of home runs, but he did not possess mantle's power. Mantle hit moon shots.  Mantle had osteomyelitis in his knees. He also tore his  knee up stepping on a drain in t he outfield pretty early on in his career, when he played right field nd Joe D was in center. And of course, we know know, that he was a party boy and lived a hard life off the field

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4 hours ago, shawn306 said:

So how is it that we all saw Griffey but no one has seen Trout ? We have seen Trout probably more than we saw Griffey in his hey day in Seattle ?

Different world back then there was really only one ESPN channel and they constantly put the mid 90’s Mariners on Sunday Night Baseball 

 

 

Sunday Night Baseball on espn used to be kinda like what MNF was on ABC

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On 7/22/2019 at 8:22 PM, BROOKLYN JET said:

Wayne Gretzky and nobody else even comes close.

Bobby Orr was better. 

Yeah, I said it. 

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Most real baseball fans have seen Trout play. 

I think the issue is, whilst football is a national sport, baseball is almost entirely a regional sport. 

The billions of football fans will watch the Seahawks v Cardinals.

Baseball “fans” aren’t sitting through 3 plus hours of Mariners v Diamondbacks. 

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1 minute ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

I know, you don't count the numbers.

Bobby Orr invented Wayne Gretzky. 

And could kick his ass. 

The ultimate 2 way player. 

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3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Bobby Orr invented Wayne Gretzky. 

And could kick his ass. 

The ultimate 2 way player. 

Bobby Orr was great.

Wayne Gretzky has more assits than any one has points, he also has the most goals.*

*Numbers

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1 minute ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

Bobby Orr was great.

Wayne Gretzky has more assits than any one has points, he also has the most goals.*

*Numbers

Oh right, you’re a “numbers” guy. 

 

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Some people simply give their opinion in a discussion where there is no clear definitive answer, because they enjoy sharing their memories of great players. They enjoy the discussion.

Others will find a way to turn it into an argument, because their opinion is the only one that matters. =D>

 

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The guy who brought up Gretsky got me to thinking.

I'm a big hockey fan, and I know @section314 is also. Here's my question to him, and anyone else who's old enough to remember those Oiler teams. Has there ever been a greater collection of talent on a team then they had?

What a shame they couldn't afford to keep them together longer. Who knows how much more they could've accomplished? Imagine a team where Mark Messier in his prime was a second line center?

The only team in any sport that comes to mind are the '27 era Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig, who I never saw play, lol, 

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9 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

The guy who brought up Gretsky got me to thinking.

I'm a big hockey fan, and I know @section314 is also. Here's my question to him, and anyone else who's old enough to remember those Oiler teams. Has there ever been a greater collection of talent on a team then they had?

What a shame they couldn't afford to keep them together longer. Who knows how much more they could've accomplished? Imagine a team where Mark Messier in his prime was a second line center?

The only team in any sport that comes to mind are the '27 era Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig, who I never saw play, lol, 

Great post, and question. I believe that the NHL actually changed a rule because of them. Didn't the league ban the 4 on 3 penalty kill for years because those Oiler teams scored so much with that advantage? Imagine trying to defend Gretsky, Messier, Kurri and Coffey with three guys?

The only teams that come to mind that had that type of talent( HOFers, etc) are the Canadians from 1976-1979 that won 4 straight cups, Isles from 1980-1984, the Steelers from 1974-1980 with 4 Super Bowls, and the great and totally underappreciated Oakland A's tams from 1972-1975 with 3 straight World Series and 4 straight pennants. I guess to be fair, even though I despise the NBA these days, the run that the Golden State Warriors have had the last 5 years.

All that being said, I'd cast my vote with you on the 1927 Yankees, and those great Edmonton teams. They were in a whole different stratosphere.

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On 8/19/2019 at 8:56 PM, Peace Frog said:

I think the issue is, whilst football is a national sport, baseball is almost entirely a regional sport. 

The billions of football fans will watch the Seahawks v Cardinals.

Baseball “fans” aren’t sitting through 3 plus hours of Mariners v Diamondbacks. 

Like I said it’s a different world now.  Weekly nationwide TV mlb games broadcast on Fox and ESPN were a way bigger deal in the 90’s now no one cares there’s too many options 

 

 

Same thing happened to a lesser extent to the nfl but it’s mitigated by 1) so few football games per year and 2) fantasy 

 

 

 

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On 8/19/2019 at 1:59 PM, shawn306 said:

So how is it that we all saw Griffey but no one has seen Trout ? We have seen Trout probably more than we saw Griffey in his hey day in Seattle ?

MLB with the unbalanced schedule.

Now, the Yanks play the Angels 7 games a year, it used to  be 12-14.    Plus an amazing playoff series in 95.

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