Hopeful article about Darnold

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Every time I read one of your posts on the topic of Gase, I start hearing you singing this song in the back of my head.....

Thankfully, in just a few months, we will all be able to evaluate Gase and his performance for ourselves, on our team, with a very talented offense led by a great young developing QB prospect and one of if not the best RB in the NFL.

We won't have to argue over if Gase's past.  We'll all have Gase's present to think about instead. 

So me, Manning , Cutler, Tannehill, Tebow, pretty much anyone who talks about Gase and offensive mind leads you to this PGabrial song?

i cant begin to tell you what think about when you talk QBs.  Darnold weak armed QB, lol, whos arm you compared to Chads.

Thats just a start and thankfully in your eyes only.  Funny you have no problem lecturing real live fans for watching or wanting watch pressers by players, our new HC and GM. 

From the respone, In You Eyes only.  So back off sparky

 

 

[Eaton Beaver]

On 7/13/2019 at 7:35 PM, 14 in Green said:

I have no problem with thinking Darnold will have a wonderful career. I think he will also.

What I do take issue with is when people here say how obvious it is that Sam will be better then Mayfield. Based on what exactly? And why the constant need to try and convince each other that Sam should’ve been taken first, and he is the better of the two?

All we have to go by so far IS their rookie year, and Baker was clearly better, and look at their numbers... Yes, Mayfield was decisively better. Anything  else is opinion or as I said, Jets fans projecting.

Why not let Darnold actually prove ON THE FIELD that he is better? He hasn’t yet, but if and when he does there’ll be plenty of opportunities to talk about it.

It is obvious that you are not a Jets fan, so why don't you take your pessimistic views to wherever your favorite team has a forum. Better yet, go to the Browns forum, I am sure they will welcome you with open arms!

[Losmeister]

comp % as an absolute measure of accuracy doesnt work....

there were some PFF stats that were interesting last year... i didnt pony up this year cos i didnt feel it was worth it overall...

situ: 3 and 12 

you can hit the Rb for 5, get a completion, or you can throw to a covered guy 17 yds upfield and hope that he wins a 50/50 ball....

thats just one example.

the PFF broke down covered and open %ages which i thought was helpful.

(mclown was among the worst at hitting OPEN recievers)

[Losmeister]

jetnut should rename himself jetnutinhereye in honor of #11

[Peace Frog]

13 minutes ago, Eaton Beaver said:

It is obvious that you are not a Jets fan, so why don't you take your pessimistic views to wherever your favorite team has a forum. Better yet, go to the Browns forum, I am sure they will welcome you with open arms!

Ouch. 

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, Eaton Beaver said:

It is obvious that you are not a Jets fan, so why don't you take your pessimistic views to wherever your favorite team has a forum. Better yet, go to the Browns forum, I am sure they will welcome you with open arms!

LOL Another guy who’s here 15 minutes who wants to decide who can be a Jets fan.

GFY.

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

LOL Another guy who’s here 15 minutes who wants to decide who can be a Jets fan.

GFY

You sound like you don't own a PSL

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

So me, Manning , Cutler, Tannehill, Tebow, pretty much anyone who talks about Gase and offensive mind leads you to this PGabrial song?

i cant begin to tell you what think about when you talk QBs.  Darnold weak armed QB, lol, whos arm you compared to Chads.

Thats just a start and thankfully in your eyes only.  Funny you have no problem lecturing real live fans for watching or wanting watch pressers by players, our new HC and GM. 

From the respone, In You Eyes only.  So back off sparky

 

 

It's even better when the video is literally in your post, so I can play it while reading your......yeah, lol.

[JPPT1974]

Second year and really you have to give him the benefit of the doubt from last year. Due to the fact of him being a rookie.

[Grandy]

Sam has more than elite accuracy potential. However he's not there yet.

He did make some jaw dropping throws and plays that you only see out of a handful of guys last year, he was just inconsistent (final 4 aside). 

He showed literally everything (and then some) that you'd want out of an elite franchise guy. If he builds on his tremendous progression from the end of last year, we're in for something truly special.

[genot]

22 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Really. 

Not what ex players say.

Not why Manning says.

Cutler.

just throw it out there that he should have let the injured Tannehill throw it all over the place.

And listen to the same old whining by Fidelio.  Every thread, every day, all day.  Don't have anything to say, call those who don't agree or who understand the game the "Gase police". Lol, so cute.  Then imagine and throw out as fact that having an injured QB for the majority of his 1 out of 3 stops is blaming his "failures" on everyone else.  

Amazing

I think Fidelio and i are on the same page about Gase. with some justification. Read the comments about Gase from these fans. Some of the points made are well thought out. Not sour grapes. Click on comments section at bottom. If you want, of course.

 

[Maxman]

On 7/14/2019 at 4:32 PM, Peace Frog said:

I never said he wasn’t a Jet fan- I know he is but that was his spin on what I said. I was discussing accuracy v completion percentage and his penchant for what I believe is and has been an unfair critique of Sam.

And he’s shown  he’s man enough to defend himself and doesn’t need your help. 

And if you’re going to report me to the mods have the guts to do it in public. 

Hey @Maxman this guy that you asked me to “knock it off” is now suggesting I’M not a Jet fan. 

Been a Jet fan since 1969. 

Does this guy get a warning? 

No I'm on vacation and all I see is you telling on someone LOL.

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, Warfish said:

It's even better when the video is literally in your post, so I can play it while reading your......yeah, lol.

Go ahead, is this somehow funny? 

 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Go ahead, is this somehow funny? 

 

It is to me, and that's really all that matters tbqh.  

[Warfish]

11 hours ago, Grandy said:

Sam has more than elite accuracy potential.

What is "more than elite"?

[Jet Nut]

On 7/14/2019 at 8:13 PM, 14 in Green said:

I know this is a popular theme here when defending Sam. You’re right, not a lot of talent on O or the CS for Sam. But that argument is useless when comparing him to Mayfield.

Baker went from a horrible coach in Hue Jackson, to a in season replacement (Freddie Kitchens) whose inexperience is being touted here by almost everyone as a reason why the Browns will be bad this year. You can’t have it both ways, sorry. Bakers coaches sucked also. So stop with the “well Sam had bad coaches stuff.”

As far as talent, please. The Browns won what? One game in two years before Baker? They were 0-2 again last year and down 14-0 when Baker came off the bench week 3 and led them to a win against the Jets.

Again, you can’t have it both ways.The only change in the team that won once in 34 games, then suddenly went 7-6-1 was Baker Mayfield. So stop with the “he had better talent stuff.”

Baker had a record breaking year. He was better then Sam. It wasn’t even close. Sorry. There is no way for anyone to logically argue this fact. You might LIKE Sam more, or FEEL he may become the better player, but he wasn’t better last year.

 

Hugh Jackson was/is a horrid HC but he's always been a very good offensive coordinator.  That's not what you get with Bowles.

Then you can't say the Browns had horrible coaching and turn around pointing to their record and blame it on talent.  Not really fair

youre right though, Baker had a better year, no denying it.  Still think Sam is and will be the better long term QB, which is different than who had a better year one

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It is to me, and that's really all that matters tbqh.  

Pretty much most of what you think is wrong so...

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

What is "more than elite"?

Think it's more about where th ball is delivered, the duress it's delivered under and not the childlike reliance on completion percentage which is kind of meaningless to anyone who understands the game.  

Which means you are screwed

[The Voice of Reason]

On 7/13/2019 at 3:35 PM, FidelioJet said:

From the article...

As a rookie, Darnold didn’t have a good accuracy percentage, he ranked 31st in the league

Anyone know how "Accuracy Percentage" is judged? 

I thought he was very accurate and was often able to hit tight windows - just didn't have people open all that much.

Also, playing LB for so long he still has a lot more to learn/ develop

[HelenOfTroy]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Also, playing LB for so long he still has a lot more to learn/ develop

Hope he never loses that LB mentality, or his BB moves, should serve him well as he matures as a QB.  His physical toughness will serve him well vs NFL defenses.

There was improvement toward the end of the season, vs some very good defenses, now it’s up to him, his teammates and coaches to build on that.  

History has already shown that a great rookie season doesn’t always indicate who will ultimately be the better QB. 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Think it's more about where th ball is delivered, the duress it's delivered under and not the childlike reliance on completion percentage which is kind of meaningless to anyone who understands the game.  

Which means you are screwed

So an incomplete well delivered ball > a completed pass on a slightly lesser well-thrown ball.

Got it.

And using completion percentage as a metric for accuracy is "meaningless and childlike". 

Silly facts like stats are for losers anyway, right?  Got it.

I wonder if we should invent some new words to better describe Darnold's far-beyond-elite'ness when it comes to his superhuman accuracy.... 

[Savage69]

50 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So an incomplete well delivered ball > a completed pass on a slightly lesser well-thrown ball.

Got it.

And using completion percentage as a metric for accuracy is "meaningless and childlike". 

Silly facts like stats are for losers anyway, right?  Got it.

I wonder if we should invent some new words to better describe Darnold's far-beyond-elite'ness when it comes to his superhuman accuracy.... 

Anyone that has followed your posts here or on JI know you have always had a contrarian opinion on things.. For a example if I go fishing on a boat I look forward to catching fish and having a fun day on the water. You on the other hand may think you could get sun burnt, not catch a thing the boat could sink and you could get eaten by a shark.. No right or wrong just different strokes for different folks..

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So an incomplete well delivered ball > a completed pass on a slightly lesser well-thrown ball.

Got it.

And using completion percentage as a metric for accuracy is "meaningless and childlike". 

Silly facts like stats are for losers anyway, right?  Got it.

I wonder if we should invent some new words to better describe Darnold's far-beyond-elite'ness when it comes to his superhuman accuracy.... 

Yes, if you're discussing accuracy.  

Your view.  Darnold throws 15 well delivered passes to a WR.  Hits him in his hands, in stride, perfect ball.  All 15 are dropped by the WR, comp. % = 0.00, Darnold is the leagues worst, most innacurate passer. 

15 ducks, thrown all over the place, not one well delievered ball, WR makes 15 crazy, diving, lunging catches, comp % in this case is 100% and somehow you think hes now more accurate.  Easy as it gets to read stats

So yes, comp percentages on their own are "meaningless and childish".  Simplistic beyond belief and proof that yes some stats on their own are silly.  

100% true.

 

[Jetster]

20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes, if you're discussing accuracy.  

Your view.  Darnold throws 15 well delivered passes to a WR.  Hits him in his hands, in stride, perfect ball.  All 15 are dropped by the WR, comp. % = 0.00, Darnold is the leagues worst, most innacurate passer. 

15 ducks, thrown all over the place, not one well delievered ball, WR makes 15 crazy, diving, lunging catches, comp % in this case is 100% and somehow you think hes now more accurate.  Easy as it gets to read stats

So yes, comp percentages on their own are "meaningless and childish".  Simplistic beyond belief and proof that yes some stats on their own are silly.  

100% true.

 

This is a great point. Anyone who has seen some of the catches that Deandre  Hopkins makes would realize that he definitely props up Watsons completetion %.

Then you have Sam, perfect throw on a wheel route to Cannon...dropped. McGuire out of the backfield....dropped. Lot of drops for our boy Sam last year. 

[Warfish]

53 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Anyone that has followed your posts here or on JI know you have always had a contrarian opinion on things.. For a example if I go fishing on a boat I look forward to catching fish and having a fun day on the water. You on the other hand may think you could get sun burnt, not catch a thing the boat could sink and you could get eaten by a shark.. No right or wrong just different strokes for different folks..

Except not a single word of that is true, and I'd wager I do a hell of alot more fishing then you, old friend.  I'm often pessimistic about the Jets, rightfully so given their history and results.  I've also been optimistic just as often, but people tend to ignore or forget those posts.  Human nature, I suppose. 

The problem here at JN (as it was at JI) is people think posts here represent the entirely of a human being.  It most certainly doesn't.  While I have written more than my fair share of words about the Jets over the years, not one of you know me as a person.  You know only my opinions on the Jets, a tiny fraction of who I am.  

 

[Warfish]

52 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes, if you're discussing accuracy.  

Your view.  Darnold throws 15 well delivered passes to a WR.  Hits him in his hands, in stride, perfect ball.  All 15 are dropped by the WR, comp. % = 0.00, Darnold is the leagues worst, most innacurate passer. 

15 ducks, thrown all over the place, not one well delievered ball, WR makes 15 crazy, diving, lunging catches, comp % in this case is 100% and somehow you think hes now more accurate.  Easy as it gets to read stats

So yes, comp percentages on their own are "meaningless and childish".  Simplistic beyond belief and proof that yes some stats on their own are silly.  

100% true.

 

Then it would seem a reasonable, logical counterpoint would be to cite NFL drop pass stats showing that Darnold's pass-catchers had somewhere near the most-dropped passes in the NFL last year.  I would certainly accept that as a valid counter-argument in regards to accuracy discussion.

Do you have a source to support any such claim, that Jets WR dropped alot of passes last year compared to the rest of the league?

Also, just to be clear, what you posted was pure hyperbole.  Fantasy even.  We're talking about Pro QB's, not people throwing "15 perfectly delivered balls, all dropped" or "15 ducks, all caught by great WR's".  

Lets stick with facts, shall we?  If drops played a material part in Darnold's 31st ranked completion percentage, then the drop stats should show that out.

[Savage69]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Except not a single word of that is true, and I'd wager I do a hell of alot more fishing then you, old friend.  I'm often pessimistic about the Jets, rightfully so given their history and results.  I've also been optimistic just as often, but people tend to ignore or forget those posts.  Human nature, I suppose. 

The problem here at JN (as it was at JI) is people think posts here represent the entirely of a human being.  It most certainly doesn't.  While I have written more than my fair share of words about the Jets over the years, not one of you know me as a person.  You know only my opinions on the Jets, a tiny fraction of who I am.  

 

Fish I was kidding you..

[14 in Green]

2 hours ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Hope he never loses that LB mentality, or his BB moves, should serve him well as he matures as a QB.  His physical toughness will serve him well vs NFL defenses.

There was improvement toward the end of the season, vs some very good defenses, now it’s up to him, his teammates and coaches to build on that.  

History has already shown that a great rookie season doesn’t always indicate who will ultimately be the better QB. 

I’m looking at your avatar as you talk to us about what history shows.

The first thing that popped into my mind was how USC quarterbacks have historically performed in the NFL.

Maybe we should hold off on the history thing? ?

[slats]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

So an incomplete well delivered ball > a completed pass on a slightly lesser well-thrown ball.

Got it.

 

Is it a better result in a game? No. Is it a better reflection of a QB's accuracy? Yes. 

When you get all bogged down in stats that's when you find yourself thinking that Ryan Fitzpatrick is a good QB or Kirk Cousins is a great one. Fitz looks good throwing to Braylon, Decker, or Mike Evans, while Darnold looked good throwing to Robbie Anderson and Deontay Burnett. 

[14 in Green]

On 7/14/2019 at 4:32 PM, Peace Frog said:

I never said he wasn’t a Jet fan- I know he is but that was his spin on what I said. I was discussing accuracy v completion percentage and his penchant for what I believe is and has been an unfair critique of Sam.

And he’s shown  he’s man enough to defend himself and doesn’t need your help. 

And if you’re going to report me to the mods have the guts to do it in public. 

Hey @Maxman this guy that you asked me to “knock it off” is now suggesting I’M not a Jet fan. 

Been a Jet fan since 1969. 

Does this guy get a warning? 

 

12 hours ago, Maxman said:

No I'm on vacation and all I see is you telling on someone LOL.

Ouch.

I told you the other day, you’re a grown man. Stop acting like a child.

But you just keep doing what you do, @Peace Frog it’s working out well for you... ?

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Fish I was kidding you..

No worried Sav, gave me an opportunity to say something I've felt like saying for a while now, tbh.

[Peace Frog]

19 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

 

Ouch.

I told you the other day, you’re a grown man. Stop acting like a child.

But you just keep doing what you do, @Peace Frog it’s working out well for you... ?

Yet you keep replying. It’s ok, folks see you for who you are. 

[Peace Frog]

57 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Then it would seem a reasonable, logical counterpoint would be to cite NFL drop pass stats showing that Darnold's pass-catchers had somewhere near the most-dropped passes in the NFL last year.  I would certainly accept that as a valid counter-argument in regards to accuracy discussion.

Do you have a source to support any such claim, that Jets WR dropped alot of passes last year compared to the rest of the league?

Also, just to be clear, what you posted was pure hyperbole.  Fantasy even.  We're talking about Pro QB's, not people throwing "15 perfectly delivered balls, all dropped" or "15 ducks, all caught by great WR's".  

Lets stick with facts, shall we?  If drops played a material part in Darnold's 31st ranked completion percentage, then the drop stats should show that out.

Here you go. Facts. 

Enjoy.

Through October 23 last year Jets were 7th in the league in dropped pass percentage. Interesting take in the article. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jetswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/23/jets-among-the-worst-in-the-nfl-in-dropped-passes/amp/

Ended up tied for 11th. 

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=nfl&rank=232&type=receiving

In all, 19 dropped passes. If 13 of those were Darnold’s he’s a 61% completion guy and according to you, accurate. 

Please stop, completion percentage does NOT equal accuracy. 

Or continue repeating nonsense.  

[Peace Frog]

39 minutes ago, slats said:

Is it a better result in a game? No. Is it a better reflection of a QB's accuracy? Yes. 

When you get all bogged down in stats that's when you find yourself thinking that Ryan Fitzpatrick is a good QB or Kirk Cousins is a great one. Fitz looks good throwing to Braylon, Decker, or Mike Evans, while Darnold looked good throwing to Robbie Anderson and Deontay Burnett. 

We were tied for 11th with 19 dropped passes. 

Yeah, Sam Darnold is inaccurate because his completion percentage says he is. 

Lol. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Is it a better result in a game? No. Is it a better reflection of a QB's accuracy? Yes. 

Not sure I would agree with that universally.

Throwing a materially less likely to be completed pass vs. throwing a more likely completed pass is part of a QB's judgement.  Fans may hate it, but throwing some bullet into triple coverage 30 yards out with a very low chance of being caught is not, IMO, smarter than throwing to the guy in the flat for 5 yards who might need to fight to get that 6th yard for the first down.  It's all about probabilities.    

1 hour ago, slats said:

When you get all bogged down in stats that's when you find yourself thinking that Ryan Fitzpatrick is a good QB or Kirk Cousins is a great one.

Bait, I'm sure, and I don't intend to rise to it.  My views of Fitz and Cousins and yours do not align, and it's been well trod at this point.  

1 hour ago, slats said:

Fitz looks good throwing to Braylon, Decker, or Mike Evans, while Darnold looked good throwing to Robbie Anderson and Deontay Burnett. 

Well, we have Anderson, Enunwa, Crowder, Bell, Herndon and more in 2019.  I don't think we ca argue we lack talent overall, even if we don't have a pure #1 WR really.  We have three legit #2's and a #1 in our RB.

We're all looking forward to see how Darnold develops, and as I said to start, I see no reason Darnold cannot work hard and materially improve him completion percentage in 2019 and beyond.