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themeangreenkillingmachine

If the NFL copied the NBA's CBA

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It seems for the past 10 years every championship has been won in the offseason. Teams in the NBA get turned inside out and then turn a 180. Draft picks are barely valued, unless for the past 1st overall, and are constantly traded for Big names. there's a max contract that players can get, which makes players like Mike Conley get paid the same as Lebron James. This makes it seems like there is no salary cap as teams are able to fit 3 max contracts. Players like Lebron James isn't bothered that he makes the same as a guy half as good as he is, because most of his money comes from endorsements. a lot of these guys have 100 million dollar shoe deals, so why would he. Lebron is almost a Billionaire from endorsements and career earnings.

Also, players seem to have all the control, when it comes to who they want to be traded too. this often leads to the top 15 players in the league being on only 5-6 teams

What would you think of the NFL if they went this route in the next CBA agreement?

I think it ruins basketball. It takes everything away from team development and makes 20 of the other teams uncompetitive and unwatchable.

One moment your hometown team is rising, then all of a sudden your best player decides to move his talents elsewhere. then you're teams goal is to tank, hoping to luck out for the top pick while creating cap space to hope that a few top 15 players want to form a superteam in your city.

The Raptors defied the odds this year, and I couldn't have been happier to see a well balanced team like them win.

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6 minutes ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Draft picks are barely valued

lol wat

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3 minutes ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

how many times have you seen draft picks being traded for cash? or teams like the Knicks/Nets trading away a decades worth of picks for washed up players?

 

 

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

 

 

I think the point is that, generally, there are only like five good players in any one NBA draft class and everyone else is the same. 

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Just now, T0mShane said:

I think the point is that, generally, there are only like five good players in any one NBA draft class and everyone else is the same. 

I think the point is that some idiot just heard about the Anthony Davis trade, rage-sh*t himself over the fact that NBA players are too empowered to be treated like chattel, and generalized it into some halfcocked theory that the entire league Doesn’t Play The Game The Right Way.

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1 minute ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Exactly. Look how many teams were thrown away to the thunder. Thunder will probably trade at least half of those picks again.  Thunder are going to tank as well

wow, QED

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Just now, dbatesman said:

I think the point is that some idiot just heard about the Anthony Davis trade, rage-sh*t himself over the fact that NBA players are too empowered to be treated like chattel, and generalized it into some halfcocked theory that the entire league Doesn’t Play The Game The Right Way.

Truth be told I only read the headline 😑

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3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The problem with the NFL CBA is that Goodell lets Kraft circumvent it by paying Brady under the table while every other team has to pay their elite QB on the books. 

He also orchestrated Tom’s marriage to a sugar momma so he’d never pull an Aaron Rodgers on the salary cap 

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5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I think the point is that some idiot just heard about the Anthony Davis trade, rage-sh*t himself over the fact that NBA players are too empowered to be treated like chattel, and generalized it into some halfcocked theory that the entire league Doesn’t Play The Game The Right Way.

Wow calm down. You sound like a hard core leftie from Deadspin

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2 minutes ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Wow calm down. You sound like a hard core leftie from Deadspin

(He is in fact Bill Barnwell)

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13 minutes ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Wow calm down. You sound like a hard core leftie from Deadspin

because he is?

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11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

(He is in fact Bill Barnwell)

How. Dare. You.

  • Haha 2

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Every time people talk CBAs, I think about an old story involving Marvin Miller and MLB.

Miller was a powerful union leader for years before heading up the MLB players union, which he turned into the worlds most powerful labor group.

 When he got into the biggest of his battles, it was with the owners over free agency. The owners screamed they would never allow it, then after a long strike, relented, only on what they thought were favorable terms. They placed limits on who and how many years were necessary before being granted “freedom”. Miller agreed to their terms and the contract was ratified.

This negotiation showed just how brilliant Miller was. He later revealed that his biggest fear was that someone on the owners side would realize that the way to break his union wasn’t to try to limit free agency. It was the opposite. If those owners had said, “We will allow every player to become a free agent at the end of every season.” They would’ve won.

Miller said had they done this, the union would’ve been broken. With every player available, every year, there would be no bidding wars, and salaries would’ve collapsed.

Even knowing all this, he’d have been forced to accept that deal. He’d  been pushing FA to the players and the public so hard for so long he’d never win in the court of public opinion or regain the faith of his players union if he turned it down.

That one labor contract negotiation and settlement changed the world of sports as nothing before or since ever has.

 

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24 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

This negotiation showed just how brilliant Miller was. He later revealed that his biggest fear was that someone on the owners side would realize that the way to break his union wasn’t to try to limit free agency. It was the opposite. If those owners had said, “fine, you want free agency, you’ve got it. We will allow every player to become a free agent at the end of every season.”

Really, not a realistic fear. Although this is along the lines of the concerns of NFL players seeking fulling guaranteed contracts - that they'll be no more than three years long, ever (except, maybe, if you're a true franchise QB). The best players in any sport won't have to worry about signing year to year. And in a sport like football, with it's always increasing salary cap, such an arrangement would lead to bigger payouts. We always talk here about resigning players sooner rather than later in an effort to get a discount. You wanna resign Le'Veon Bell on an annual basis?  

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This is a nuanced take. Clearly your understanding of the basketball salary cap and the value of star players relative to an average veteran is advanced and well researched. I’m particularly impressed by you’re nostalgic longing for the good old days of basketball before dynasties- like the 2000s if you exclude the Spurs and Lakers, or the 90s if you exclude the Bulls, or the 80s if you exclude the Lakers or the 70s if you exclude Celtics and Lakers or the 60s if you exclude the Celtics and Lakers...

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45 minutes ago, slats said:

Really, not a realistic fear. Although this is along the lines of the concerns of NFL players seeking fulling guaranteed contracts - that they'll be no more than three years long, ever (except, maybe, if you're a true franchise QB). The best players in any sport won't have to worry about signing year to year. And in a sport like football, with it's always increasing salary cap, such an arrangement would lead to bigger payouts. We always talk here about resigning players sooner rather than later in an effort to get a discount. You wanna resign Le'Veon Bell on an annual basis?  

The cat is out of the bag, there’s obviously no going back. However if that negotiation had gone differently, the world of sports would be unrecognizable.

If Leveon Bell, Todd Gurley, Ezekiel Elliot and every other RB were never available, where’s the market? Or, if every one of them would be available again and again, every year, where’s the market? Especially in one where “bidding wars” never were a thing.

You have to step back, and realize where sports, and their contracts were at that time.

Good players on bad teams were told “we finished 6th with you, we can do that without you”. They were offered minimal raises, sometimes none at all, and salaries were often cut.

Players had year to year contracts, only two or three made $100,000. Others were stuck in the minors for years. Imagine being 3rd baseman behind Brooks Robinson, or a CF behind Mickey Mantle?

Once that contract was signed, everything changed. Salaries grew and grew. Ironically, so have each of the different sports.. The players and ironically even the owners would never go back to that old system. Both sides are printing money, and off seasons are drawing almost as much interest as the games, due to free agency.

 

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8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

(He is in fact Bill Barnwell)

Still reeling from this. Never been so insulted in all my life

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11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The problem with the NFL CBA is that Goodell lets Kraft circumvent it by paying Brady under the table while every other team has to pay their elite QB on the books. 

Hey that's legitimate, necessary sports supplement stuff that the team simply can't buy from anyone else

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Ask the Knicks how tanking (purposely or not) worked out for them this year. The NBA is dysfunctional as the highly educated hard working astute professionals are running the asylum, imagine if your coworkers were in charge of where you work (personally I'd rather they weren't), but I don't think it's going to last too long the way it is. Eventually the fans aren't going to want to pay to watch their team take on the modern equivalent of the Globetrotters when 1 of the 3 super teams come to town to stomp on their small market no talent team. TV ratings for the NBA are down and will probably continue to trend lower.

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45 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Ask the Knicks how tanking (purposely or not) worked out for them this year. The NBA is dysfunctional as the inmates are running the asylum, imagine if your coworkers were in charge of where you work (personally I'd rather they weren't), but I don't think it's going to last too long the way it is. Eventually the fans aren't going to want to pay to watch their team take on the modern equivalent of the Globetrotters when 1 of the 3 super teams come to town to stomp on their small market no talent team. TV ratings for the NBA are down and will probably continue to trend lower.

It’s great that the players are making all that money, but it is killing the competition in the league

NBA players control the league. The term “owner” no longer exists. Literally. People were saying it was racist. Adam Silver now refers to the people who are the biggest shareholders as “governors”.

im sure people will think you’re racist for comparing nba players to “inmates”

pretty soon players will be wealthy enough to own the team. If MJ could do it 20 years ago, surely many more will be able to, only they’ll have the ability while still in their prime.

The NBA should rename itself the the CBA (Communist Basketball Association). 

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10 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

The cat is out of the bag, there’s obviously no going back. However if that negotiation had gone differently, the world of sports would be unrecognizable.

If Leveon Bell, Todd Gurley, Ezekiel Elliot and every other RB were never available, where’s the market? Or, if every one of them would be available again and again, every year, where’s the market? Especially in one where “bidding wars” never were a thing.

You have to step back, and realize where sports, and their contracts were at that time.

Good players on bad teams were told “we finished 6th with you, we can do that without you”. They were offered minimal raises, sometimes none at all, and salaries were often cut.

Players had year to year contracts, only two or three made $100,000. Others were stuck in the minors for years. Imagine being 3rd baseman behind Brooks Robinson, or a CF behind Mickey Mantle?

Once that contract was signed, everything changed. Salaries grew and grew. Ironically, so have each of the different sports.. The players and ironically even the owners would never go back to that old system. Both sides are printing money, and off seasons are drawing almost as much interest as the games, due to free agency.

 

You are not wrong about this.

Again, when Bob Costas wrote his book on Baseball (Fair Ball), one of his suggestions was to have one player that you can pay a max salary to every year.  Only ONE player per team makes 'x' amount.  Loved the idea.  You could take it further, especially for football, and pay one person OFF the books (franchise player, which in most cases will be a QB except on a rookie contract).  Then you build your team from there.  I am not sure players/fans would like everyone on one year deals, but I think 3 years deals should be the max.  Many sports are getting into 8-12 year contracts so guys can max-out their value for the long-term.  HATE it.  Make a player play at the top of his game every year to make that kind of money. 

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There is no salary cap in the NBA with all the loopholes to work around it. No team is out there cutting players because they have to get under the cap.

 

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23 minutes ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

im sure people will think you’re racist for comparing nba players to “inmates”

 

"Inmates running the asylum" is a common phrase for when the rank and file start calling the shots, plus an asylum is for nutters, but I don't doubt it since people see what they want to see. I'll edit it so as not to offend anyone who may be looking to be offended.

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1 hour ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Ask the Knicks how tanking (purposely or not) worked out for them this year. The NBA is dysfunctional as the highly educated hard working astute professionals are running the asylum, imagine if your coworkers were in charge of where you work (personally I'd rather they weren't), but I don't think it's going to last too long the way it is. Eventually the fans aren't going to want to pay to watch their team take on the modern equivalent of the Globetrotters when 1 of the 3 super teams come to town to stomp on their small market no talent team. TV ratings for the NBA are down and will probably continue to trend lower.

The popularity of the league is being propped up by the massive ESPN contract. I agree the NBA has issues, and for as smart as Silver is, Lebron see's him as weak and will continue to take advantage. It will be interesting to see what the league looks like 5 years from now.

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Why do you guys want short contracts?  You want to make the GM's job easier?  How about we just hire somebody who is smart and knows how to work the rules we have now.

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On 7/15/2019 at 4:28 AM, T0mShane said:

The problem with the NFL CBA is that Goodell lets Kraft circumvent it by paying Brady under the table while every other team has to pay their elite QB on the books. 

The final cheat of the Brady era will be when he gets a “lifetime personal services/team ambassador” contract after he retires to reimburse him for all those foregone earnings. The league will not be able to do a damn thing.

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On 7/14/2019 at 10:10 PM, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

It seems for the past 10 years every championship has been won in the offseason. Teams in the NBA get turned inside out and then turn a 180. Draft picks are barely valued, unless for the past 1st overall, and are constantly traded for Big names. there's a max contract that players can get, which makes players like Mike Conley get paid the same as Lebron James. This makes it seems like there is no salary cap as teams are able to fit 3 max contracts. Players like Lebron James isn't bothered that he makes the same as a guy half as good as he is, because most of his money comes from endorsements. a lot of these guys have 100 million dollar shoe deals, so why would he. Lebron is almost a Billionaire from endorsements and career earnings.

Also, players seem to have all the control, when it comes to who they want to be traded too. this often leads to the top 15 players in the league being on only 5-6 teams

What would you think of the NFL if they went this route in the next CBA agreement?

I think it ruins basketball. It takes everything away from team development and makes 20 of the other teams uncompetitive and unwatchable.

One moment your hometown team is rising, then all of a sudden your best player decides to move his talents elsewhere. then you're teams goal is to tank, hoping to luck out for the top pick while creating cap space to hope that a few top 15 players want to form a superteam in your city.

The Raptors defied the odds this year, and I couldn't have been happier to see a well balanced team like them win.

allan houston is a prime example of why the nba pay scale wouldn't work very well in the nfl.  although we've seen a bunch of guaranteed nfl contracts that frontload the money so the players have little monetary incentive to play very hard.  wilky is a prime example for the jets.

hard to say how to make the nba better.  there are too many thugs in the game and it seems like too many players are more concerned about style than diving for balls or making that defensive stop or making that extra pass.  maybe some of this is the fact that there's no real reason to watch any nba game except for the last 2 minutes because the points are too cheap.

i liked that toronto won.  it's nice to see a small market team do well.  and milwaukee also was a surprise.  but even there kwame leonard moved on to greener pastures and won't be around for them next season.  so much for team loyalty.

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Just what we need for the nfl to become a completely California-centric league focused on “superteams” like the nba

 

im sure the networks would love to copy the nba’s plummeting tv ratings

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