Defense 2019. Stop the run.

[Jetster]

How do you help your CBs if your not loaded at the position? Stop the run. Think about every NFL game you've ever watched & how offenses look when they have the run game working. Everything rolls at that point. It's not easy in this league to play defense against teams facing 2nd, 3rd & short. Our Jets ranked 24th & 26th the last 2 years against the run, it's unacceptable. 

A great running game in 2009, 2010, propelled Mark Sanchez to 2 AFCC games. He's been a backup QB ever since. It's one of the biggest factors to helping a young QB. The addition of Quinnen Williams & CJ Mosely should limit opposing RBs & help out the secondary. The Patriots rode their running game in 2019 all the way to a Super Bowl win. The NFL has changed to more wide open offenses, but the Pats proved, if you can't stop the run, your opponent won't stop running. You give an average QB a great running game, you make him above average. You give a great QB a running game, you make him practically unstoppable. 

[BUM-KNEE]

I think we will be much improved in terms of run defense.  

We gotta get a lid on the pass defense though or it will be a shootout every game.  

[Rsherman28]

The addition of CJ Mosley was huge but it’s even better for Williamson, who quietly had a very impressive year in tackling and run stopping. 

Moving him to the weak side line backer position and plugging in Mosley who should  be even me more of a force, is going to be elite.

Our front 7 alone consist of guys like Leo,Q,McClendon, Anderson, Jenkins, Williamson, Mosley or another OLB like Polite or Copeland. 

For the most part all of these guys can run stop. Oh yah, did I mention Kacey Rodgers is no longer coaching our defensive line ??!!??

[Rsherman28]

22 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

I think we will be much improved in terms of run defense.  

We gotta get a lid on the pass defense though or it will be a shootout every game.  

The X factor of the defense this year is Tru Johnson. 

If he plays like last year it is going to be a long year against the pass with this teams depth at the CB position. 

If he can live up to his contract and show last years slow play was due to injury, then this defense can make some serious noice. 

Right now to exploit our defense, just throw outside the numbers to one of these corners and see if they can cover.

Add a shut down corner to the mix and your number 2 or 3 corner who usually gets picked on can have some safety help. 

[BUM-KNEE]

1 minute ago, Rsherman28 said:

The X factor of the defense this year is Tru Johnson. 

If he plays like last year it is going to be a long year against the pass with this teams depth at the CB position. 

If he can live up to his contract and show last years slow play was due to injury, then this defense can make some serious noice. 

Right now to exploit our defense, just throw outside the numbers to one of these corners and see if they can cover.

Add a shut down corner to the mix and your number 2 or 3 corner who usually gets picked on can have some safety help. 

Yep. We need one stud corner and this D looks very good.  

(On paper)

 

[dbatesman]

yeah def, if you wanna win in todays NFL, you gotta stop the run

[BUM-KNEE]

6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

yeah def, if you wanna win in todays NFL, you gotta stop the run

Def ain't getting off the field on 3rd and short that's for sure.  

[Beerfish]

No the op is wrong.

Who are you todd bowles?

You help your CBs and Safeties by rushing the passer in a passing league.

This team has stopped the run for years and still had many poor defenses.

Know when teams pile up a lot of rushing years against you?  When they are up by 10-14 after passing to a lead.

[BUM-KNEE]

32 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No the op is wrong.

Who are you todd bowles?

You help your CBs and Safeties by rushing the passer in a passing league.

This team has stopped the run for years and still had many poor defenses.

Know when tams pile up a lot of rushing years against you?  When they are up by 10-14 after passing to a lead.

Know how teams were passing to take the lead?

By setting it up early with the run to establish legit play action and finding mismatches.

[Losmeister]

yeah, man. its definitely a running league. 

 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Know how teams were passing to take the lead?

By setting it up early with the run to establish legit play action and finding mismatches.

No that is old school and not the way the nfl is these days for the most part.  The pats have owned this league for years with a pass to set up run offense.

The jets have stuffed the run well for a lot of years, that has not helped a leaky pass defense because we get a poor rush, not a lot of sacks and expose our DBs to long pass coverage windows.

[naturalscience]

3 hours ago, Rsherman28 said:

The X factor of the defense this year is Tru Johnson. 

If he plays like last year it is going to be a long year against the pass with this teams depth at the CB position. 

If he can live up to his contract and show last years slow play was due to injury, then this defense can make some serious noice. 

Right now to exploit our defense, just throw outside the numbers to one of these corners and see if they can cover.

Add a shut down corner to the mix and your number 2 or 3 corner who usually gets picked on can have some safety help. 

I'm optimistic about Johnson this year. Last year was the outlier statistically. Plus as was mentioned, no kacy rogers. I think we see him get back to being one of the top press corners.

[BettyBoop]

I think the pass and rush defense feed off on each other.  If either is bad, that will be exploited.  The run defense will surely be better this year, but if the CB suck, the defense will suck.

[Jetster]

22 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No the op is wrong.

Who are you todd bowles?

You help your CBs and Safeties by rushing the passer in a passing league.

This team has stopped the run for years and still had many poor defenses.

Know when teams pile up a lot of rushing years against you?  When they are up by 10-14 after passing to a lead.

If you #1 can't stop the run in this league your f*cked. Everything comes easier if you can run against a team. Think about us beating the Jaguars when our running game went off at home. Jets had ZERO BUSINESS beating the Jags that year but rolled up 250 on the ground. 

Obviously good passing teams are going to move the ball but in theory your odds of getting off the field on 3rd down increase when the yardage needed to convert increases. It's not about SHUTTING TEAMS COMPLETELY down anymore, it's about limiting big plays, timely blitzes & great Redzone defense, something the Patriots seem to do every year. 

Jets should have a well balanced offense that can control the ball & limit opportunities to the opposing offenses too. My point was IF you can't stop the run, your chances of winning are greatly reduced because setting plays up becomes that much easier.

[slats]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

If you #1 can't stop the run in this league your f*cked. Everything comes easier if you can run against a team. Think about us beating the Jaguars when our running game went off at home. Jets had ZERO BUSINESS beating the Jags that year but rolled up 250 on the ground. 

That's what's called an outlier. 

The NFL is a passing game. All the rules are designed to help QBs and protect receivers and create more scoring. The NFL has been passing to set up the run since Bill Walsh showed them how to do it. Teams don't win because they run the ball better, winning teams rack up more rushing yards because they're running out the clock late in games against tired and demoralized defenses. Winning teams stop the run by scoring a lot of points and forcing their opponents to throw. 

The Jets were 19th last year in yards per rush against, the Patriots were 30th and the Rams were 32nd. Run defense does not win championships and hasn't for decades now. 

If the Jets are stuffing the box, their opponents will gladly take advantage of their paper thin CB group one-on-one all day long. What the Jets need more than anything else is to get lucky with one one or more of these late round defensive backs. 

Offensively, I do hope the Jets have a balanced attack and solid running game to take some pressure off of Sam, but it the end it all comes down to Sam, anyway. 

[nycdan]

This whole thread can be summed up with a 4-minute clip from The Princess Bride.

 

 

[Raideraholic]

On July 17, 2019 at 7:32 AM, Rsherman28 said:

The addition of CJ Mosley was huge but it’s even better for Williamson, who quietly had a very impressive year in tackling and run stopping. 

Moving him to the weak side line backer position and plugging in Mosley who should  be even me more of a force, is going to be elite.

Our front 7 alone consist of guys like Leo,Q,McClendon, Anderson, Jenkins, Williamson, Mosley or another OLB like Polite or Copeland. 

For the most part all of these guys can run stop. Oh yah, did I mention Kacey Rodgers is no longer coaching our defensive line ??!!??

Every great defense first goal is to stop the run, so yes the Jets defense seems to have that going for them .  No doubt about it the Jets should be one of the better teams stopping the run .

The NFL is a passing league , you better be able to defend the pass too.   This is where the Jets defense going to have major problems.   Why would a team even try and run the ball early when they are putting themselves in bad situations.( second, and third and longs -they  know the Jets defense is very good in that area..

Every team going to throw early, and often and make the Jets prove they can stop the pass.  After they establish the pass, than they can run the football successful.

Case in point the Raiders.    You get Antonio Brown , and Tyrell Williams  Te Darren Waller 6'6 255 4.47  lined up at Wr. Two Rbs who are excellent receiving threats Josh Jacobs, and Jalen Richard out of the backfield .( they can empty their backfield , and force the Jets lb to cover them).       There is no need to even try and run the football.      

[Greenseed4]

 

On 7/17/2019 at 4:03 AM, Jetster said:

How do you help your CBs if your not loaded at the position? Stop the run. Think about every NFL game you've ever watched & how offenses look when they have the run game working. Everything rolls at that point. It's not easy in this league to play defense against teams facing 2nd, 3rd & short. Our Jets ranked 24th & 26th the last 2 years against the run, it's unacceptable. 

A great running game in 2009, 2010, propelled Mark Sanchez to 2 AFCC games. He's been a backup QB ever since. It's one of the biggest factors to helping a young QB. The addition of Quinnen Williams & CJ Mosely should limit opposing RBs & help out the secondary. The Patriots rode their running game in 2019 all the way to a Super Bowl win. The NFL has changed to more wide open offenses, but the Pats proved, if you can't stop the run, your opponent won't stop running. You give an average QB a great running game, you make him above average. You give a great QB a running game, you make him practically unstoppable. 

This makes no sense.  If you stop the run, the opponent will stop running...and pass more.  How does that help out our CBs?

[Rsherman28]

23 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Every great defense first goal is to stop the run, so yes the Jets defense seems to have that going for them .  No doubt about it the Jets should be one of the better teams stopping the run .

The NFL is a passing league , you better be able to defend the pass too.   This is where the Jets defense going to have major problems.   Why would a team even try and run the ball early when they are putting themselves in bad situations.( second, and third and longs -they  know the Jets defense is very good in that area..

Every team going to throw early, and often and make the Jets prove they can stop the pass.  After they establish the pass, than they can run the football successful.

Case in point the Raiders.    You get Antonio Brown , and Tyrell Williams  Te Darren Waller 6'6 255 4.47  lined up at Wr. Two Rbs who are excellent receiving threats Josh Jacobs, and Jalen Richard out of the backfield .( they can empty their backfield , and force the Jets lb to cover them).       There is no need to even try and run the football.      

The second I started reading your post I knew there was going to be a case for the raiders lol

You are correct though, the weak point of this defense is going to be outside the numbers at corner and the ability to rush the quarterback consistently.

I am hoping with addition to the defensive line and inside the middle at linebacker, it helps one of these edge rushers get some numbers. Jachai Polite with the mixture of Copeland/Jenkins can make Tru Johnson and Daryl Roberts look a whole lot better this year if we can get some pressure from the edge. 

 

 

[ZachEY]

On 7/17/2019 at 7:52 AM, dbatesman said:

yeah def, if you wanna win in todays NFL, you gotta stop the run

Considering we have the 3rd highest paid CB, the best safety in the NFL (possibly ever, but too soon to tell), and a VERY GOOD 2nd round safety, I'd say we have this pass defense thing covered.

[ZachEY]

45 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

 Case in point the Raiders.    You get Antonio Brown , and Tyrell Williams  Te Darren Waller 6'6 255 4.47  lined up at Wr. Two Rbs who are excellent receiving threats Josh Jacobs, and Jalen Richard out of the backfield .( they can empty their backfield , and force the Jets lb to cover them).       There is no need to even try and run the football.      

You just don't learn, do you?

[Raideraholic]

16 minutes ago, Rsherman28 said:

The second I started reading your post I knew there was going to be a case for the raiders lol

You are correct though, the weak point of this defense is going to be outside the numbers at corner and the ability to rush the quarterback consistently.

I am hoping with addition to the defensive line and inside the middle at linebacker, it helps one of these edge rushers get some numbers. Jachai Polite with the mixture of Copeland/Jenkins can make Tru Johnson and Daryl Roberts look a whole lot better this year if we can get some pressure from the edge. 

 

 

The best thing that can happen if some of the young CB's surprise.( whoever said that was correct.   The Jets have the makings of a pretty good defense , but they still need to add outside pass rushers.( Jenkins had seven but he probably never sees that again- honestly do you see being a  consistent sack guy.    Polite severely undersized , and let's see what he can do.) .     

Not to mention have to  upgrade the CB position.      Once they do this the Jets defense can be special .      Right now outside of some trade , or some players surprising , this Jets defense still has major holes.

 

[Raideraholic]

33 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

You just don't learn, do you?

Some teams the Jets defensive line is  going to be able to over power, but the Raiders aren't one of them.    Their interior offense line ( r Incognito , R Hudson, and Gabe Jackson) matches up well to the Jets defenseline( l Williams , Q Williams , and h Anderson).   Jenkins and Polite aren't doing anything against the Raiders tackles.     Trent Brown eats up way better speed rushers than Polite. ( won't even get off the line of scrimmage)

The weapons the Raiders have on offense, and the Jets questions at CB, and it's not a good matchup for the Jets.  I hope Greg Williams  plans to play man to man because their going to be some quick scores.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Some teams the Jets defensive line is  going to be able to over power, but the Raiders aren't one of them.    Their interior offense line ( r Incognito , R Hudson, and Gabe Jackson) matches up well to the Jets defenseline( l Williams , Q Williams , and h Anderson).   Jenkins and Polite aren't doing anything against the Raiders tackles.     Trent Brown eats up way better speed rushers than Polite. ( won't even get off the line of scrimmage)

The weapons the Raiders have on offense, and the Jets questions at CB, and it's not a good matchup for the Jets.  I hope Greg Williams  plans to play man to man because their going to be some quick scores.

The Jets were trash last year.  There's a good chance they're trash again this year.  I acknowledge that.  My point is that you, somehow, every single year, think that the Raiders aren't trash, when in reality, they've had one winning season since 2002.  They likely remain trash, regardless of your 2019 list of names who can't be stopped.

[Rsherman28]

51 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Not to mention have to  upgrade the CB position.      Once they do this the Jets defense can be special .      Right now outside of some trade , or some players surprising , this Jets defense still has major holes.

I think a defense with major holes falls to the worst top 10 defense's in the league. If we are truly a pass rusher away or an upgrade away in the CB position, then you are saying we are close. 

It would be a disappointment if this years defense doesn't finish in the top 10. 

 

[NYJ1]

On 7/17/2019 at 7:03 AM, Jetster said:

How do you help your CBs if your not loaded at the position? Stop the run. Think about every NFL game you've ever watched & how offenses look when they have the run game working. Everything rolls at that point. It's not easy in this league to play defense against teams facing 2nd, 3rd & short. Our Jets ranked 24th & 26th the last 2 years against the run, it's unacceptable. 

A great running game in 2009, 2010, propelled Mark Sanchez to 2 AFCC games. He's been a backup QB ever since. It's one of the biggest factors to helping a young QB. The addition of Quinnen Williams & CJ Mosely should limit opposing RBs & help out the secondary. The Patriots rode their running game in 2019 all the way to a Super Bowl win. The NFL has changed to more wide open offenses, but the Pats proved, if you can't stop the run, your opponent won't stop running. You give an average QB a great running game, you make him above average. You give a great QB a running game, you make him practically unstoppable. 

don't forget getting rid of Darron Lee was as instrumental in making this defense better as adding good players through free agency. Lee was such a clueless dingbat that he couldn't even identify where plays were going after the ball was snapped. Sh*scanning him from the team was all about addition by subtraction.

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

 

This makes no sense.  If you stop the run, the opponent will stop running...and pass more.  How does that help out our CBs?

Not every QB is the GOAT like Tom Brady. The point is if you KNOW THE OPPONENT has to pass every down that helps your defense IF you have good coaching.

[jetstream23]

On 7/17/2019 at 4:32 AM, Rsherman28 said:

The addition of CJ Mosley was huge but it’s even better for Williamson, who quietly had a very impressive year in tackling and run stopping. 

Moving him to the weak side line backer position and plugging in Mosley who should  be even me more of a force, is going to be elite.

Our front 7 alone consist of guys like Leo,Q,McClendon, Anderson, Jenkins, Williamson, Mosley or another OLB like Polite or Copeland. 

For the most part all of these guys can run stop. Oh yah, did I mention Kacey Rodgers is no longer coaching our defensive line ??!!??

Believe it or not, Leo Williams has become borderline elite against the run.  Sure, his sacks dropped last year but he's been an animal against the rush.  I think that will only get better having guys like QW and Mosely in the front 7 to go along with solid players like Williamson and Jenkins.  Not to mention Jamal Adams coming up in run support.

 

 

[BurnleyJet]

20 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Believe it or not, Leo Williams has become borderline elite against the run.  Sure, his sacks dropped last year but he's been an animal against the rush.  I think that will only get better having guys like QW and Mosely in the front 7 to go along with solid players like Williamson and Jenkins.  Not to mention Jamal Adams coming up in run support.

 

 

Love paying those run stuffers 18 mill per?

[jetstream23]

16 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Love paying those run stuffers 18 mill per?

Grady Jarrett just got a big pay day.  I think we'll all have a close eye on Quinnen this year and see how "expendable" Leo becomes.  If Leo has a great 2019 then the Jets can franchise tag him and possibly trade or extend him.  QW will be relatively cheap for several years (until his option year like Leo) so I also wouldn't be against a longterm deal for Leo that was somewhat front-loaded and starts to get cheaper just as it becomes time to play QW.  It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out but yeah....$18M per year would be tough to stomach.  

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Grady Jarrett just got a big pay day.  I think we'll all have a close eye on Quinnen this year and see how "expendable" Leo becomes.  If Leo has a great 2019 then the Jets can franchise tag him and possibly trade or extend him.  QW will be relatively cheap for several years (until his option year like Leo) so I also wouldn't be against a longterm deal for Leo that was somewhat front-loaded and starts to get cheaper just as it becomes time to play QW.  It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out but yeah....$18M per year would be tough to stomach.  

If Leo was a 8 to 10 sack a year man, then no problem. I think if we was keeping him, we’d have signed him already.

Q hopefully can be what Leo was supposed to be?

I’m hoping Shephard can turn his physical gifts into play, and make Leo expendable.

 

[thebuzzardman]

It's a must to stop that 3 yards and a cloud of dust

[Rsherman28]

6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Believe it or not, Leo Williams has become borderline elite against the run.  Sure, his sacks dropped last year but he's been an animal against the rush.  I think that will only get better having guys like QW and Mosely in the front 7 to go along with solid players like Williamson and Jenkins.  Not to mention Jamal Adams coming up in run support.

 

 

Great stat, I always think fans are to hard on this player because of where he was picked in the draft. If you go back and look at that year, without reaching, that would still be my pick in the top 10 of the draft. 

After making the pro bowl in 2016, pass rushing stats have seemed to take a dip. He has also been part of a rebuild with not much help in the edge rushing department to take some pressure of him. 

Someone posted another cool post with all of Henry Anderson’s blow up plays last year. On 5 out of 7 of Anderson’s sacks came against a single blocker while Leo would be doubled. 

I understand the hesitation to dish out big contracts due to our contract history in that position and the money we have tied up already in the front 7, but I would love to see Big Cat play well under a contract year and stay with us long term. 

Idunno call me crazy, it would be nice to see one of our guys get rewarded rather then overpay in FA and pay someone for the work they did with another team. 

[BUM-KNEE]

14 hours ago, Jetster said:

Not every QB is the GOAT like Tom Brady. The point is if you KNOW THE OPPONENT has to pass every down that helps your defense IF you have good coaching.

Exactly.

Every team tries to establish the run, and if they can, the playbook opens up down the stretch

 

[Rsherman28]

3 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

If Leo was a 8 to 10 sack a year man, then no problem. I think if we was keeping him, we’d have signed him already.

Q hopefully can be what Leo was supposed to be?

I’m hoping Shephard can turn his physical gifts into play, and make Leo expendable.

 

Basically if Leo got one more sack last year you would then be ok extended him? QB hits don’t sounds as great, but they are an important stat to look at when the sack totals are depleted. 

PFF and stats also don’t show plays where Leo gets attention or disruption and someone else benefits. It’s really easy to say he is expendable if Q plays well. Then Q is all alone next year taking on double teams and he becomes expendable after one good year (sounds familiar with Leo making the probowl in 16 and us then rebuilding the next 2 years and it’s hard for him to get sacks)

I agree more with the previous strategy with possibly tagging and extending him. I am not sure just because he is on the team today, we should extend him if he is in our plans. Players also bet on the man selves in contract years, it would be foolish for him to take “discount” deal now instead of letting his play make him more money. 

Hoping Nathan Shepperd is going to be as good as Leo is almost hopeless. Shepperd at his best, will only be a run stopping machine, the players aren’t even comparable that’s how far behind Shepperd is in comparison with Leo.