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Gase: "Sometimes you got to let a guy be a baller"

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Stop...please...MAYBE just maybe it was because our Oline was bottom 5 in run blocking, Bates loved the 1st & 2nd down runs for a loss of 2 & he had numerous 3rd & longs to try to convert with no Quincy Enunwa, a rookie RB, a rookie TE, an UDFA in Burnett, a guy that retired before the season began in Kearse, and a frustrated Anderson with safety help always rolled to him.

Do people watch this team or not?

Run blocking does not effect the accuracy of a pass.  Pass blocking can of course, if your QB is on the run all day long (as Darnold at times was), the QB will naturally be less accurate (a point I've not really seen raised yet, surprisingly, as it almost assuredly was a factor as well in Darnold's 57%).

The 3rd and Long could be a thing as well, we'd have to see if we were in third and long, or ran more often on 1st and 2nd, than most other NFL teams.  I simply don't have those stats at hand to support that argument, but it wouldn't surprise me if that were a factor as well.  I don't think any of us will miss bates, no matter what we think of Gase.

Again, who he was throwing to is mostly a factor if they drop the pass.  If the pass is accurate and to an open receiver, it should be completed unless the receiver drops it.  If the receiver isn't open, the QB should be throwing elsewhere to the guy that is open.  This isn;t really a criticism of a 22 year old rookie, more the natural observation of the challenges a rookie QB plays under, he needs time to learn who and where to throw the ball, when and when not to take risks.  His 57% is simply not elite, but he very clearly IMO showed flashes of the talent and abillity that will make him elite.

Honestly, I don't get all the faux outrage and objections.  My view is basically that Darnold is not elite yet, because he simply isn't, as a 22 year old rookie QB with much to learn and improve on, but that he showed, clearly and unquestionably, the potential to be elite.  He made soem amazing individual throws, but was not accurate to a point where he should be described as elite in a league where elite is 70%+.  Yes, there were factors that limited him, that doesn't change the result, only explains some of the potential causes of his 57% completion rate.  But that seems to offend a great number of JN posters, who appear to want to demand we all agree that Darnold is elite now, period, no debate, no discussion, and that accuracy shouldn't be judged by the metrics almost everyone has always used for accuracy (till now).

End if the day, as I always say, this is my opinion.  Everyone else has every right to disagree, and to take it or leave it as they wish.

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21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Honestly, I don't get all the faux outrage and objections.  My view is basically that Darnold is not elite yet, because he simply isn't, as a 22 year old rookie QB with much to learn and improve on, but that he showed, clearly and unquestionably, the potential to be elite.  He made soem amazing individual throws, but was not accurate to a point where he should be described as elite in a league where elite is 70%+. 

And here's where we differ--where your hyperbole enters every discussion you have.  I said he was accurate, even IMHO an extremely naturally accurate thrower of the football.  Not elite accurate, not ultra accurate, not super accurate, not the most accurate ever.

Accurate.  It's in his DNA.

You said he was inaccurate.  I didn't stoop to claiming you said he was crappy, sh*tty, awful accuracy.  I objected to you saying simply that he is an inaccurate thrower of the football.

You claimed his comp % proved he was inaccurate and everyone basically disagreed with you that comp rate and accuracy are not similar metrics or concepts.

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7 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

To my eye he is among the most elite I have ever seen in ball placement, catchability, pace, timing and ball path.

I can't agree with that based on 2018, to my eye.  But agree to disagree.

Quote

Frankly in Gase's system and with Bell as an outlet I would be shocked if he wasnt a 65%+ accuracy guy this year.

That would be stellar, and I hope thats the case. :yahoo:

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Run blocking does not effect the accuracy of a pass.  Pass blocking can of course, if your QB is on the run all day long (as Darnold at times was), the QB will naturally be less accurate (a point I've not really seen raised yet, surprisingly, as it almost assuredly was a factor as well in Darnold's 57%).

The 3rd and Long could be a thing as well, we'd have to see if we were in third and long, or ran more often on 1st and 2nd, than most other NFL teams.  I simply don't have those stats at hand to support that argument, but it wouldn't surprise me if that were a factor as well.  I don't think any of us will miss bates, no matter what we think of Gase.

Again, who he was throwing to is mostly a factor if they drop the pass.  If the pass is accurate and to an open receiver, it should be completed unless the receiver drops it.  If the receiver isn't open, the QB should be throwing elsewhere to the guy that is open.  This isn;t really a criticism of a 22 year old rookie, more the natural observation of the challenges a rookie QB plays under, he needs time to learn who and where to throw the ball, when and when not to take risks.  His 57% is simply not elite, but he very clearly IMO showed flashes of the talent and abillity that will make him elite.

Honestly, I don't get all the faux outrage and objections.  My view is basically that Darnold is not elite yet, because he simply isn't, as a 22 year old rookie QB with much to learn and improve on, but that he showed, clearly and unquestionably, the potential to be elite.  He made soem amazing individual throws, but was not accurate to a point where he should be described as elite in a league where elite is 70%+.  Yes, there were factors that limited him, that doesn't change the result, only explains some of the potential causes of his 57% completion rate.  But that seems to offend a great number of JN posters, who appear to want to demand we all agree that Darnold is elite now, period, no debate, no discussion, and that accuracy shouldn't be judged by the metrics almost everyone has always used for accuracy (till now).

End if the day, as I always say, this is my opinion.  Everyone else has every right to disagree, and to take it or leave it as they wish.

Valid opinions.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Run blocking does not effect the accuracy of a pass.  Pass blocking can of course, if your QB is on the run all day long (as Darnold at times was), the QB will naturally be less accurate (a point I've not really seen raised yet, surprisingly, as it almost assuredly was a factor as well in Darnold's 57%).

The 3rd and Long could be a thing as well, we'd have to see if we were in third and long, or ran more often on 1st and 2nd, than most other NFL teams.  I simply don't have those stats at hand to support that argument, but it wouldn't surprise me if that were a factor as well.  I don't think any of us will miss bates, no matter what we think of Gase.

Again, who he was throwing to is mostly a factor if they drop the pass.  If the pass is accurate and to an open receiver, it should be completed unless the receiver drops it.  If the receiver isn't open, the QB should be throwing elsewhere to the guy that is open.  This isn;t really a criticism of a 22 year old rookie, more the natural observation of the challenges a rookie QB plays under, he needs time to learn who and where to throw the ball, when and when not to take risks.  His 57% is simply not elite, but he very clearly IMO showed flashes of the talent and abillity that will make him elite.

Honestly, I don't get all the faux outrage and objections.  My view is basically that Darnold is not elite yet, because he simply isn't, as a 22 year old rookie QB with much to learn and improve on, but that he showed, clearly and unquestionably, the potential to be elite.  He made soem amazing individual throws, but was not accurate to a point where he should be described as elite in a league where elite is 70%+.  Yes, there were factors that limited him, that doesn't change the result, only explains some of the potential causes of his 57% completion rate.  But that seems to offend a great number of JN posters, who appear to want to demand we all agree that Darnold is elite now, period, no debate, no discussion, and that accuracy shouldn't be judged by the metrics almost everyone has always used for accuracy (till now).

End if the day, as I always say, this is my opinion.  Everyone else has every right to disagree, and to take it or leave it as they wish.

On point, my guy. 

Sam flashed in moments but he’s not elite yet. He’s not even above average. This year I think he will be. 

Not last year though.

People riding off hope so hard that they are turning it into something else.

he flashed in moments and had some throws where he put it in really tight windows. That’s really great and I’m content with his first season..especially the way it ended but we have to see more first. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Run blocking does not effect the accuracy of a pass.  Pass blocking can of course, if your QB is on the run all day long (as Darnold at times was), the QB will naturally be less accurate (a point I've not really seen raised yet, surprisingly, as it almost assuredly was a factor as well in Darnold's 57%).

The 3rd and Long could be a thing as well, we'd have to see if we were in third and long, or ran more often on 1st and 2nd, than most other NFL teams.  I simply don't have those stats at hand to support that argument, but it wouldn't surprise me if that were a factor as well.  I don't think any of us will miss bates, no matter what we think of Gase.

Again, who he was throwing to is mostly a factor if they drop the pass.  If the pass is accurate and to an open receiver, it should be completed unless the receiver drops it.  If the receiver isn't open, the QB should be throwing elsewhere to the guy that is open.  This isn;t really a criticism of a 22 year old rookie, more the natural observation of the challenges a rookie QB plays under, he needs time to learn who and where to throw the ball, when and when not to take risks.  His 57% is simply not elite, but he very clearly IMO showed flashes of the talent and abillity that will make him elite.

Honestly, I don't get all the faux outrage and objections.  My view is basically that Darnold is not elite yet, because he simply isn't, as a 22 year old rookie QB with much to learn and improve on, but that he showed, clearly and unquestionably, the potential to be elite.  He made soem amazing individual throws, but was not accurate to a point where he should be described as elite in a league where elite is 70%+.  Yes, there were factors that limited him, that doesn't change the result, only explains some of the potential causes of his 57% completion rate.  But that seems to offend a great number of JN posters, who appear to want to demand we all agree that Darnold is elite now, period, no debate, no discussion, and that accuracy shouldn't be judged by the metrics almost everyone has always used for accuracy (till now).

End if the day, as I always say, this is my opinion.  Everyone else has every right to disagree, and to take it or leave it as they wish.

I sometimes think you just like to "pick on Darnold" but this is a very well thought out post.  Lot of good points.  hey - hopefully he makes "the jump" this year!!

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Nice to have a head coach that actually gets excited about football. Haven't been this excited for a season since 2011 (coming off back to back AFCCG appearances).

Well that’s not a good comparable man


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Seems like so long ago......

Rex and Gase would have made a lethal combo, especially if Rex was running his defense with a two TD lead in most games. Hoping Gase and Willams will be even better.


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Revis wasn't elite his first year. Either was Adams (a poke in the eye to those who deserve it). Both made the jump. Sam will be next!

Can't wait!

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On 7/17/2019 at 8:45 PM, Warfish said:

And you know it because you see it, even if that's not represented in his actual performance metrics?

There certainly seems to be a disconnect here at JN. 

We have a QB who is already described by Jets Fans as "better-than-elite accuracy", or as you describe him, "one of the best you've ever seen"......yet he was below the Mendoza line in terms of completing passes with a relatively high number of interceptions.  We were upper-middle in drops, so it's not drops by themselves hurting his rates.

So why is an elite, best ever, ultra-accurate QB only completing 57% of his passes and throwing above-average INT's in a league where 65%-73% is elite?

Is it possible Jets Fans are being a little but hyperbolic describing a rookie was was at times and in certain moments very good.....but still overall hit-or-miss as rookies usually are, with terms like "better than elite" and "best I've ever seen"? :-k  

Can Darnold make ultra-accurate individual throws?  Absolutely he can, and he did.

Is he "better-then-elite" or "best ever" accurate overall.....not yet he isn't.

Maybe he is accurate but had trouble diagnosing coverages?  Or maybe the receiver was covered well and Sam forced the throw due to pressure, game situation, or just inexperience.  I know he had several end of game desperation heaves intercepted, so there is that.  Maybe he was running for his life when the WR was open on his break?  These scenarios could exist and he could still be accurate.   Just a possible explanation for you to consider.    A useful statistic , if available, would be misses to “open WR “either with or without pressure 

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Maybe he was playing for 3 idiots in Bowles/Rogers/Bates + playing with a guy who retired before the season started (Kearse), 3 RBs that are average at best (Crowell, Powell, McGuire), and 2 of them got injured, a rookie TE, 2 rookie UDFAs in Cannon & Burnett, he lost his most versatile WR in Quincy, 3 of the starting Oline on a line that started out as average, and a defense that couldn't hold leads when Sam gave them one. Maybe these were factors in his low completion rate? Maybe? 

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3 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Maybe he is accurate but had trouble diagnosing coverages?  Or maybe the receiver was covered well and Sam forced the throw due to pressure, game situation, or just inexperience.  I know he had several end of game desperation heaves intercepted, so there is that.  Maybe he was running for his life when the WR was open on his break?  These scenarios could exist and he could still be accurate.   Just a possible explanation for you to consider.    A useful statistic , if available, would be misses to “open WR “either with or without pressure 

This is the key driver behind his low completion %.  It has NOTHING to do with "accuracy".  Sam did not miss a lot of throws.  Meaning he rarely had open guys and just missed the throw .  He had to force so much because guys simply weren't open.  

Yes, maybe he didn't find the open guy as quickly or as much as you would like - but "accuracy" isn't even remotely the issue with Sam.  He has pinpoint accuracy. 

Finding an open guys was his problem.  and it was a combination of inexperience and more importantly lack of talent.

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Y'all looking way too much into completion %...The bottom line is below is actuals, the top line is if he had one more completion a game.  so one more completion a game and he's at 61% . 

with the talent level the jets had last year we need to stop looking at that number and calling it "accuracy".   Heck a healthy Q would have easily been worth an extra completion a week .  

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200.gif&key=23ab2d9ba9333cc7b9e2f79862cb01c4b5e515fb7e67a992be66c745a645c36e
I'd rather watch Meg Ryan having an orgasm than see Sammy sling it all over the field.


Are you sure?

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3 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Image result for daaaamn gif

A lot of women don't age well. 

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10 minutes ago, Jetster said:

A lot of women don't age well. 

I think she had some work done. (in a 3rd world country)

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40 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

I think she had some work done. (in a 3rd world country)

Women think they look good after face lifts. They look like their morphing into the joker. 

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