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Chris & Woody's Butler

Thread for those of us giving Gase a clean slate.

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On 7/17/2019 at 10:06 PM, Warfish said:

To talk about the Jets of course.

You must have missed the deep exchanges today on if completion percentage is or isn't a metric for tracking/evaluating QB accuracy.

Spoiler: apparently it's not anymore.  At least not here.

P.S. I do love a good haggis....

it is part of it but what about touchdowns vrs interception ration or yards per attempt

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16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And then what happened the next 3 years?

If you're going to give the credit to Macc for one 10-win, non-playoff season, you can't excuse his failings the next 3 offseasons. 

As I mentioned before, no GM over that 4-year span drafted a higher % of players who are no longer in the league, so the blame doesn't all fall on Bowles.  Hell, not even the MAJORITY of blame falls on Bowles.  Macc drafted bad players, period, which the rest of the league also determined to be failures. 

part of that falls on Bowles we drafted from the same pool as everyone else. why cant we develop players? Is it the players we drafted or the coaching staff and how they used the players. in Maccs defense Bowles devalued dlinemen and used them for clogging space rather then attacking the offense, for that he wanted quicker lbers to penetrate and attack. we did not have linebackers in that mold outside of the tiny linebacker. 

I am interested in seeing the defense with the aded pieces and not seeing corners 10 yrds from the line of scrimmage

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10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Good lord.  C'mon.  We're talking about players that are OUT OF THE LEAGUE.  Meaning NO COACH could develop the following players Macc drafted:  Chad Hansen, Christian Hackenberg, ArDarius Stewart, Devin Smith, Lorenzo Mauldin, Dylan Donohue, Jarvis Harrison, Juston Burris, ....the likes of those do NOT fall on Todd Bowles. 

 man not all of the players failures can be on the gm alone, I question the ability of the prior coaching staff to get the best out of the players you can say they all sucked and blame the gm. I also blame the staff for not using players correctly and to their strengths. There is no defense of Bowles in those regards. MEANING BOWLES SUCKED AS MUCH if not more then MACC.

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10 hours ago, Warfish said:

TD to INT would be a metric as well, yes.  It too has flaws (an INT off a WR's chest is the same as an INT thrown directly to the CB).

Tell me how/why you think Yards Per Attempt is a measure of accuracy? 

Is a QB who goes 1 for 5 for 90 yards (18 YPA) more accurate than a QB who goes 4 for 5 for 85 Yards (17 YPA)?

when averaged across a season it would point to the type of routes ran and when the ball was thrown an the success of the team. I will use Tannehill as an example the yr before gase got there and the yr after

these are the stats below there is a 3 game difference but look at the yard per attempt with the yards per game do you think it is possible in 3 games he could have thrown for 1200 yards.

Gases' offense is a short pass orientated ball control type offense his rating goes up to 93.5 percent but most of his other stats drop.

His raises his  yards per attempt looks like it is only 1/2 a yard (but he is throwing the ball 200 times less)but look at yards per game the difference is 30 yards per game (granted it is possible he could have thrown for 3 400 yrd games to close the gap but i doubt it).  So for throwing the ball less but having a higher yards per attempt when he is throwing the ball he is throwing it to the correct receiver on the route

Now look at the interceptions I always look for a 2 to 1 ratio as a sign of a qb having a good yr. It is really hard to say how this ends up because he is averaging close to 1 interception per game but he also had less sacks and sack yards yards as they got rid of the ball faster.

I think everything needs to be looked at as whole but yards per attempt yards per game have always stood out for me. I am curious to see how this woks with Sam who is a better qb that can throw into tighter places the Ryan ever could.

So I would guess for Sam something similar to the 2016 season Tannehill put up close to or right 500 attempts a rating somewhere in the 90s with a 2 to 1 td versus interceptions. The kicker part is I dont know if he will cross 300 yards per game in passing next season just because the way offense is ran. Maybe Gase changes some or maybe Sam gets hot. It should be interesting.

 

I premise this with I am not a gase fan I hope he does well because that means the Jets are winning, but I question how he can fail forward and get so much support as being a qb guru (he has only worked with one young qb that is still in the leage and that is Tannehill) with out people remembering the hot mess he left in Miami with the rest of the team. I hope he learned what to do and what not to do. But he bears a certain responsibility to the failure. It was not all Mike T. The same here the failure of the last few years here was not all Maccs' fault.  Bowles has certainly failed in several aspects of the job with the Jets  to me that includes failure to develop and use players to their strengths. Something I hope this staff does is use players to their strength.

http://www.nfl.com/player/ryantannehill/2532956/careerstats

2016 Miami Dolphins 13 389 261 67.1 29.9 2,995 7.7 230.4 19 4.9 12 3.1 74T 37 11 29 216 93.5
 
2015 Miami Dolphins 16 586 363 61.9 36.6 4,208 7.2 263.0 24 4.1 12 2.0 54T 57 13 45 420

88.7

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21 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


The players I listed did not work out with any other team with different coaching staffs. That removes the Bowles variable. I’m done explaining this very simple point.

the point is not that simple Yes there were busts but to blame one person for the failure to build players is beyond just the GM The coaching staff has fault and blame there as well. So your point is just that your point I dont have to share it, I think it is irrational to blame player failure one person. we drafted from the same pool of talent but you think just players on the jets failed because the gm sucked. I got news for you players everywhere fail, the players that failed in Miami is that gms fault or the coaches fault? the same is here as well they both share the blame equally

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19 hours ago, Jet9 said:

Was he the GM in Miami? And also, at some point, and this is just me ranting a bit, but maybe pro athletes can STFU and listen to their GD bosses once in a while. And the boss can take his medicine too if he screws up, I'm fine with that. Maybe that's what happened to Gase in Miami. I don't follow them like I do the Jets and a few others so feel free to school me. I'm open to that. Miami isn't exactly a great organization, not that WE are either.

 

Yeah, they (athletes) sell the tickets, yadda yadda. But I look at the NBA and pray to God that what's going on there doesn't infect MLB, the NFL, or the NHL.

Coach: 'Hey man, play some D.'

Player: 'Nah, we're a Super Team and we don't do that.'

Umm.... NBA is a sh*t league, TV ratings notwithstanding.

Not picking on you or calling you out or anything (please know that) but have you ever managed people? I have and do every day. I have sh*t canned multiple people who brought in the $ but weren't team players and were toxic to the staff and the every day process of how a business works. 'Treat players appropriately' sounds like a cop out for people with talent to not buy in to what a team/business/organization is all about. 

Sports are different, sure. But not THAT different. Also, look at our recent 'Player's Coaches'. They ******* sucked. Rex was good for a bit but that's it.

 

I agree with you but and this is a big but the vets were complaining as well about gase it were a few stars yes I get your point but when vets who have been around the league start to complain there is some smoke there is fire

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