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Chris & Woody's Butler

Thread for those of us giving Gase a clean slate.

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12 minutes ago, JiF said:

What has he done to earn a clean slate?  NOTHING!!!!

He fired Macc.  That's a good start. 

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

Technically, CJ did...but yeah, we dont know if it's actually a good thing or not.  Hope is fun though.  Especially as a Jets fan. 

You seriously doubt whether firing Macc was a good thing?  Yikes. 

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I have no idea and neither does anyone else.  Remember when Idzick was the "adult in the room" and then we hired Mac "a personal guy", I hope Joe Douglas is good at this job, we dont know that he will be better than Mac.  Hard to be worse but said the same think about Izdick.  Gase has sucked everywhere he's been other than with Peyton Manning so yeah, it's all hope that the he figures it out and Joe Douglas is good at something he's never done before. 

 

Macc was proven, statistically, to be the worst GM at drafting (fewest players drafted that are still in the league). And it wasn’t even close. So yes, we do know he sucked badly and deserved to be fired.

 

Idzik sucked too. Douglas MIGHT suck. But Macc was quantifiable awful. So yes, we DO know he deserved to get fired.

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35 minutes ago, JiF said:

Never said he didnt deserve to be fired.  He absolutely did. 

That wasn't exactly clear....

 

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You seriously doubt whether firing Macc was a good thing?  Yikes. 

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I have no idea and neither does anyone else. 

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You don't seriously believe if we win 9 or 10 games this year, it's because of the brilliant coaching of Gase, and not personal. Do you. If you do, then it was coaching, or lack of it, that played a part in our performance the last three years. Mac didn't pick bowles. Charlie Casserly and Ron Wolf did.


If we win 9-10 games, it’ll be because of Sam Darnold.

This idea that Macc deserves all kinds of credit for throwing a bunch of money at a LB who can’t cover and a RB is ludicrous. 5 offseasons and we don’t have a pass rush or corners and we’ll need to replace nearly the entire offense (outside of Darnold) after the 2020 season. Great job!

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9 hours ago, genot said:

Crowder, Herndon, Anderson, Enunwa, and Bell. Good skill players. Bell was a steal at that price. Mosley is a 4 time pro bowler, who has a rep as a motivator and leader in the locker room. All were very good signings. As for the pass rush. If QW, is what everybody says he is, everybody will have an easier time getting pressure. Not even mentioning Polite. Corner is a question mark. Who will we need to replace????

Crowder and Bell will be gone after 2020.  And you didn't mention the OL.  We'll need to replace Beachum, Osemele, probably Winters, and may need an upgrade at Center.  IF Edoga works out, he might be the only current OL on the roster who is a starter on the line in 2021.

QW is being forced to play NT in his first season.  IF he is a pass rusher he'll be doing so at the 3-4 DE spot where we've had many difficulties over the years generating any pass rush.   Polite is a major question mark.  Trumaine Johnson is a press corner, not a # 1 corner.  The rest of our CB's suck. 

Macc put us in terrible shape for the future.  He deserves very little credit for throwing a bunch of money at our problems and still failing to address any of our biggest issues (OL, Pass Rush, Corner).  If he had done any semblance of solid drafting over his 5 offseasons here, we wouldn't have these problems. 

This idea that Macc got fired DESPITE a great offseason is infuriating.  He did NOT have a great offseason.  He continued to spend heavy resources at positions that simply don't matter.  Him finally taking a pass rusher in Polite and an OL in Edoga was simply a matter of too little, too late. 

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Just now, genot said:

Bell is 27. Crowder isn't making big bucks. Why will they be gone.Beachum's replacement will be found in the draft. Strong draft for WR, and Tackles. Leo and QW, will play inside when in a 4-3. If Shepard can take a step up, maybe he'll be inside with QW, and Leo will be at end. You worry too much. Polite could turn out too be the steal of the draft. at least on passing downs he can contribute. It is possible that his tape at Florida, is something he can bring to the NFL. Sometimes the draft doesn't go the way you want it, and you can't do what is planned. Sometimes the draft is weak in positions of need. We're lucky. Next year, we'll have the chance to draft a stud LT, and #WR. If Polite works out, one shutdown corner away from a dominant defense. Don't count out Trumaine Johnson. Kacy Rodgers didn't use him the way he was used by every other DC, since he's been in the NFL. You mentioned in your last post about Darnold. If we win it will be because of him. Hopefully he'll be here for 10 yrs.

 

  • Bell's contract is set up where he'll be wanting a new deal after 2020.  He'll be gone. 
  • Crowder is a FA after 2020. 
  • Beachum replacement:  Easier said than done.  If we do indeed win 9+ games this year, we might not be able to find a franchise LT without trading up.  We should have drafted a LT with one of our early picks the last 5 years. 
  • Who plays DE in the 4-3 looks?
  • If Polite doesn't work out, we have no pass rusher.  Heaping a lot on the 3rd rounder who dropped because of some sketchy reasons, like lack of athleticism and poor decisions-making.
  • Stud LT AND WR?  Interesting.  How will we do that, exactly?  Is the draft THAT deep at LT and WR that a mid-late 1st and 2nd will cover us there?
  • "One shutdown corner away".  And where will we find that?  Those don't tend to be allowed to walk in Free Agency. 
  • I think Trumaine plays well this year under Williams.  But he's not a # 1 corner, and he needs a pass rush to be effective. 
  • Darnold is the one and only thing that makes this roster look like anything special or exciting.  We're agreed that we go as far as he takes us.  But stop acting like Macc did a good job of building around him.  He didn't. 

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15 minutes ago, genot said:

You would depress everyone at a playboy mansion party. everything is a worst case scenario. We'll try and resign Bell and Crowder. If not, they'll be replaced. The one player you didn't mention was Robby. Im concerned about losing him. He would be alot harder to replace than a Crowder, or even Bell. Next years draft is loaded at WR. DE in a 4-3. Leo, Jenkins, Polite, Copeland. They'll experiment. Every team has holes in our division. If we went on every fan forum in the league. We'd here about what they're team is lacking in order to compete. Don't take my first sentence too seriously. Pretty much just ribbin you791969096_OscarMadison.jpg.f2ba7094652b3d39aec9567817c65ffd.jpg

 

Do not get me wrong.  I'm excited about the future of the Jets because Macc is gone and we have Sam Darnold.  The Gase/Douglas combo seems promising. 

I'm just expressing how frustrating it is for people to actually be giving Macc some semblance of "credit" for this upcoming 9-win season that has yet to happen.  And I'm also pointing out that Douglas has a ton of work to do to overcome Macc's many failures. 

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51 minutes ago, genot said:

Mac was the GM when we won 10 games with Fitzpatrick at QB. Why did we win 10 games. To me, it was the play of the QB. Our talent level was never as bad as it appeared. We just had shoddy QB play, and a bad coaching staff.

And then what happened the next 3 years?

If you're going to give the credit to Macc for one 10-win, non-playoff season, you can't excuse his failings the next 3 offseasons. 

As I mentioned before, no GM over that 4-year span drafted a higher % of players who are no longer in the league, so the blame doesn't all fall on Bowles.  Hell, not even the MAJORITY of blame falls on Bowles.  Macc drafted bad players, period, which the rest of the league also determined to be failures. 

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4 minutes ago, rammagen said:

part of that falls on Bowles we drafted from the same pool as everyone else. why cant we develop players? Is it the players we drafted or the coaching staff and how they used the players. in Maccs defense Bowles devalued dlinemen and used them for clogging space rather then attacking the offense, for that he wanted quicker lbers to penetrate and attack. we did not have linebackers in that mold outside of the tiny linebacker. 

I am interested in seeing the defense with the aded pieces and not seeing corners 10 yrds from the line of scrimmage

 

Good lord.  C'mon.  We're talking about players that are OUT OF THE LEAGUE.  Meaning NO COACH could develop the following players Macc drafted:  Chad Hansen, Christian Hackenberg, ArDarius Stewart, Devin Smith, Lorenzo Mauldin, Dylan Donohue, Jarvis Harrison, Juston Burris, ....the likes of those do NOT fall on Todd Bowles. 

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 man not all of the players failures can be on the gm alone, I question the ability of the prior coaching staff to get the best out of the players you can say they all sucked and blame the gm. I also blame the staff for not using players correctly and to their strengths. There is no defense of Bowles in those regards. MEANING BOWLES SUCKED AS MUCH if not more then MACC.


The players I listed did not work out with any other team with different coaching staffs. That removes the Bowles variable. I’m done explaining this very simple point.

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