Mark Sanchez retires from NFL for high-profile ESPN job

[y2k8]

10 hours ago, SAR I said:

Those guys didn't win anything and played small in big games.  They are compilers.  Stuck around for a long time and built a pool of worthless stats that made them "leading receiver" and "leading rusher" for a short moment in time.

They're Rusty Staub and David Wright.  Loveable losers whose posters hung on your wall and shouldn't have.

SAR I

I realize you are trolling, but Freeman and Wesley both had some incredible playoff performances.  

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And does this make them better QB's than Dan Marino?  After all, Bleeby Blub said that W's and L's are all that matters when evaluating QB's. 

It makes them better QB's at winning SB's than Marino, yes. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

It makes them better QB's at winning SB's than Marino, yes. 

That's not what I asked. 

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This is the correct opinion.  They aren't mutually exclusive.  People act like when Sanchez arrived to the Jets he spent the next 4 years being prison f**ked.  He had a pretty good situation his first 2 seasons, and a terrible situation the subsequent 2 years.  But since he sucked all 4 years, and also continued to suck for other, competent franchises, there's no argument to be made that the Jets were fully responsible for "ruining" him.  He was a bad product from the start. 

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive, but people also act like all good QB's start out as good QB's, that is complete and utter nonsense. The majority of good QB's sucked early on. Some were good early on, and then sucked (RGIII for example). News fact, there are about 20 people on the planet out of what, 8 Billion or so, who can play NFL QB at a high level. Its pretty hard to do. This means that its way more than just skill and ability that makes a high level NFL QB. This notion that development, coaching and surrounding talent has no bearing on a QB developing is the single most idiotic stance any Jet fan has, and that is saying a lot.

[Fantasy Island]

Mark sucked worse than a black hole.  The fact he hung around long as he did is his best accomplishment.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive, but people also act like all good QB's start out as good QB's, that is complete and utter nonsense. The majority of good QB's sucked early on. Some were good early on, and then sucked (RGIII for example). News fact, there are about 20 people on the planet out of what, 8 Billion or so, who can play NFL QB at a high level. Its pretty hard to do. This means that its way more than just skill and ability that makes a high level NFL QB. This notion that development, coaching and surrounding talent has no bearing on a QB developing is the single most idiotic stance any Jet fan has, and that is saying a lot. 

Of course it has an impact.  But when it comes to the example of Sanchez, that excuse falls flat.   Sanchez's first 2 years here were as ideal a situation to walk into as possible for a young QB.  How many years into a young QB's career do you need his surrounding circumstances to be awesome for him to develop properly?  At some point the training wheels come off and the QB needs to lift the team up.  Sanchez never did, and that's on him. 

If the Jets were truly responsible for his failure to develop, there's no reason he shouldn't have been able to play at a higher level with competent organizations like Philly and Denver.  He didn't. 

David Carr is a likely instance of an organization "ruining" a young QB.  Mark Sanchez is not.  As soon as he walked into the building he had a team chalk full of high character veterans, an OL that kept him on his feet and gave him the # 1 running game in the league, and a defense that kept getting him the ball back and in good field position.  You can't ask for a better situation.

[14 in Green]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

It's one reason I'm not sold on Darnold and I cringe at the assumptions that he's already arrived or that it's foregone that he will be elite. I really thought Sanchez would continue to improve. It was the final push from "optimistic" to "show me, then we'll talk" type of fan.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Yes, I am serious. There were so many "analyses" posted here and otherwise about how if Mark followed the same trajectory from year 1 to year 2 he's be at worst, an average starter.

I couldn’t agree more.

Taking any later evaluation of Sanchez out of the equation, that was the last time I fall for anyone else’s “ projections”. I’ll never buy into the hype ever again. 

I’ve become a state of Missouri type fan. “Show me”, then I’ll believe.

The parallels between Darnold and Sanchez coming out of USC are eerily similar. Except that even though the team won more in Sanchez’ rookie year due to overall talent, most of our fan base is convinced Darnold will become a star.

I hope they’re right, but I have too see it with my own eyes. Other people simply predicting it will never convince me.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

You can't be serious? The Jets in 2009/2010 had a top 5 offensive line & the best run blocking line in the entire league. 

Sanchez holds the NFL record as the only QB to lose a game in which his team ran for over 300 yards! He threw 5 picks in that game. Mark Sanchez was not a smart QB & never really learned the game. His bad plays followed him to other teams, this wasn't just a Jets issue.

Yeah, and the very next week Mark scored 2 TD's enroute to a rout of the Oakland Raiders 38-0.  What, that didn't happen?  Let's only focus on the bad moments in his rookie campaign?

After he shook his rookie jitters, Mark Sanchez won 16 of his next 20 games, the best run in team history.  And he followed that feat with an 11 win season, second best in team history, and another 2 road playoff wins.  And he was also the best Jet on the field in consecutive AFC Championship Games.

He sucked!  He had no ability!  We had the best offensive minds in football coaching him!  Chaz Schillens and Clyde Gates should have been Hall of Famers!  Buttfumble!  BOOOO!

Defeatist Jets fans playing the victim are so predictable.

SAR I

[ChuckkieB]

Good dude.  Not a good QB.  Yes, he was a part of two exciting back-to-back seasons and AFC Championship Games but he didn't deliver wins in either game and was just not a good QB for the majority of his career.  Overall, not a successful career for the #5 pick in the draft.  

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

You make very good points and hopefully Douglas takes these lessons and apply them to build around Sam with the next could of drafts, sadly I think Mac repeated the 2012 draft (at least he was fired so there is still hope the Jets will not repeat 2013 as well...)

Mark should have been benched during and after the Titans game in 2012  https://www.espn.com/nfl/game?gameId=321217010  it was by far his worst performance and the turning point of his career and the Jets, you could see him giving up, losing confidence, etc... 

Rex needed be a HC and not a fan boy, so he deserves the blame but not sure I can forgive Mark for that moment, he retired on that day, every other game after that was a waste of everyone's time (except for bloopers)

Thanks, I agree with your points too.  But let me point out that the pivotal 2012 season wasn't destroyed by Mark Sanchez, it was destroyed by a) a horrific offensive roster and offensive coaching staff and b) a very expensive defense with Rex Ryan's name all over it that couldn't stop a cold.

One can understand why our offense was so anemic.  One cannot understand why our defense was a sieve.  And that's the Rex Ryan epitaph.  We expected him to be a lousy head coach, a lousy personnel guy, and a lousy offensive mind; we didn't expect him to be a lousy defensive coordinator too.

SAR I

[More Cowbell]

Good for him. I was pretty sure he would at least get on the Latin ESPN channel in some capacity.  This is much better. 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

SAR...might want to really re-think that one.

Hey, I loved Al Toon, great guy and a really good wide receiver.  But he's not some borderline Hall Of Famer.  In 8 seasons he averaged 3.5 touchdowns a year.  He played as many playoff games as Mark Sanchez won and went 1-3, scored a whopping 2 TD's, and had 1 fumble. 

Being good with the media and putting on a friendly smile with the fans shouldn't be the criteria for making the Ring Of Honor.  Mark Sanchez is the New York Jets greatest playoff performer of all time.  His stats back that up and he passed the postseason eyeball test as well.  He's more worthy than Al Toon for sure.

SAR I

[SAR I]

57 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

I realize you are trolling, but Freeman and Wesley both had some incredible playoff performances.  

I never troll.  I just present arguments that brainfrozen SOJ victims cannot process.

Wesley Walker had 3 TD's in 7 playoff games and was shut out in the AFC Championship Game, zero yards.  Stop the presses.

Freeman McNeil as our featured back had 4 TD's and 3 fumbles in 8 playoff games and went 3-5 as a result.  Such a superstar.

Look, I love these guys, they were my childhood Jets heroes, I don't want to put them down.  My point is that the playoffs matter most, and Mark Sanchez was better than them and thus deserves our respect and a place in the Jets Ring Of Honor.

SAR I

[SAR I]

37 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Mark sucked worse than a black hole.  The fact he hung around long as he did is his best accomplishment.

Mark Sanchez was a Rex Ryan quarterback and Rex Ryan didn't want to win games in the air.  The Jets D is what sucked, they're the ones that got all the money, all the contracts, all the high draft picks, all the free agents.  Our O was a bunch of old guys off the scrap heap and a rookie quarterback.

The Jets D is to blame for our failures.  We were built to win on D.  Ground & Pound is to blame for our failures.  We were built to win at RB.  Mark exceeded expectations in 2010 when time and again the D blew leads late in the game and Sanchez led 5 miracle 4th quarter comebacks to turn 6-10 into 11-5, that should have been your first clue.  2011 Mark had us sitting at 8-5 with 3 games against losing teams and the D completely crapped the bed finishing 0-3. 

2012 was the pivotal season.  Rex bet the farm on the D and they sucked, we were constantly giving up long drives, constantly behind 10-0 in the first quarter, and as a result we were playing comeback the whole game and Air Sporano was never going to work, we were not built to win with Mark Sanchez throwing 40 times a game, it's insane.

If we were built to emulate the '99 Rams, you blame the quarterback for a bad record.  We were built to emulate the '85 Bears, so you blame the D, you blame people like Bart Scott who never made a big play in his life, you blame people like Darrell Revis who didn't contribute enough, you blame Rex Ryan for not scheming properly, you blame Shonn Greene for reporting to camp overweight and ineffective.

The kid QB did the best he could.  He wasn't drafted or expected to be the next Peyton Manning.  After a very promising start, by 2012 he wasn't supported with talent at WR.  His OL fell apart.  He had the worst OC in team history.  The media was hyping Tim Tebow and distracting him.  He wasn't developed.  He was ignored.

SAR I

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Of course it has an impact.  But when it comes to the example of Sanchez, that excuse falls flat.   Sanchez's first 2 years here were as ideal a situation to walk into as possible for a young QB.  How many years into a young QB's career do you need his surrounding circumstances to be awesome for him to develop properly?  At some point the training wheels come off and the QB needs to lift the team up.  Sanchez never did, and that's on him. 

If the Jets were truly responsible for his failure to develop, there's no reason he shouldn't have been able to play at a higher level with competent organizations like Philly and Denver.  He didn't. 

David Carr is a likely instance of an organization "ruining" a young QB.  Mark Sanchez is not.  As soon as he walked into the building he had a team chalk full of high character veterans, an OL that kept him on his feet and gave him the # 1 running game in the league, and a defense that kept getting him the ball back and in good field position.  You can't ask for a better situation.

You are completely blinded by irrational hatred, or just completely naive, not sure which one.....

Sanchez's first 2 years ended in the AFCCG, how many young QB's do that, with an ideal, or less than ideal situation? If QB is the most important position on the field, he gets zero credit for that? Can't have it both ways sport.

As for when to take the training wheels off? To anyone watching, it was clear it wasn't 2011. The reason HC's and executives make the crazy $$ they do, is because they have to know the timing of these things. Our HC and execs did not, and further more, setup us up for the 10 years of failure we are currently in. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

46 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Thanks, I agree with your points too.  But let me point out that the pivotal 2012 season wasn't destroyed by Mark Sanchez, it was destroyed by a) a horrific offensive roster and offensive coaching staff and b) a very expensive defense with Rex Ryan's name all over it that couldn't stop a cold.

One can understand why our offense was so anemic.  One cannot understand why our defense was a sieve.  And that's the Rex Ryan epitaph.  We expected him to be a lousy head coach, a lousy personnel guy, and a lousy offensive mind; we didn't expect him to be a lousy defensive coordinator too.

SAR I

agree it was a top down dumpster fire, not Mark's fault alone, just hoped he could lead the way out but he was not ready, you could tell he was crushed (mentally lost), shame because that team was close and needed to build around Mark and not draft more DT's  - Thanks Tanny

 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

You are completely blinded by irrational hatred, or just completely naive, not sure which one.....

Sanchez's first 2 years ended in the AFCCG, how many young QB's do that, with an ideal, or less than ideal situation? If QB is the most important position on the field, he gets zero credit for that? Can't have it both ways sport.

As for when to take the training wheels off? To anyone watching, it was clear it wasn't 2011. The reason HC's and executives make the crazy $$ they do, is because they have to know the timing of these things. Our HC and execs did not, and further more, setup us up for the 10 years of failure we are currently in.  

 

Sanchez's first 2 years ended in the AFCCG for the exact reasons I demonstrated:  The best O-Line and Defense in football.  What's hard to understand about that? 

So 3 years into a career isn't long enough to take the training wheels off?  What, was Mark Sanchez still in his larvae or cocoon phase then?  We've seen rookie and 2nd year QB's balling out in this league in recent years (Pat Mahomes, Baker Mayfield, Carson Wentz, Andrew Luck) but somehow Sanchez needed extra coddling to become a good QB?  Please.  If that was truly the case he wouldn't have sucked in Philly or Denver with good front offices/coaches.  Or was Mark's poor fragile psyche so ruined by the Jets that he was never going to have any success no matter where he played? 

Sanchez sucked AND the front office/coaching did him no favors year 3 and beyond.  Tough sh*t, Mark.  Life isn't fair.  If you're looking for perfect circumstances every year you're in the league, you're never going to find it. 

[y2k8]

48 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I never troll.  I just present arguments that brainfrozen SOJ victims cannot process.

Wesley Walker had 3 TD's in 7 playoff games and was shut out in the AFC Championship Game, zero yards.  Stop the presses.

Freeman McNeil as our featured back had 4 TD's and 3 fumbles in 8 playoff games and went 3-5 as a result.  Such a superstar.

Look, I love these guys, they were my childhood Jets heroes, I don't want to put them down.  My point is that the playoffs matter most, and Mark Sanchez was better than them and thus deserves our respect and a place in the Jets Ring Of Honor.

SAR I

Are you really going to cite the Mud Bowl as your case in point against Wesley Walker?  We both know that is ridiculous.  

Like most players who played more than a handful of playoff games, some were better than others, but to say they came up small when it mattered most is contrary to fact.   If you want to blame anyone for the Jets not winning a SB in the 1980s, blame the Ring of Honor defensive players who couldn't seem to get off the field when it mattered most.  

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Rex was in love with Mark, no matter how bad he was.  This prompted a change.  Thank goodness.  Rex was just as bad because he neglected the offense just like Bowles did.  I am excited for the future .

I get the analogy and I agree but at least Rex fielded a good defense.

[jgb]

53 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Sanchez's first 2 years ended in the AFCCG for the exact reasons I demonstrated:  The best O-Line and Defense in football.  What's hard to understand about that? 

So 3 years into a career isn't long enough to take the training wheels off?  What, was Mark Sanchez still in his larvae or cocoon phase then?  We've seen rookie and 2nd year QB's balling out in this league in recent years (Pat Mahomes, Baker Mayfield, Carson Wentz, Andrew Luck) but somehow Sanchez needed extra coddling to become a good QB?  Please.  If that was truly the case he wouldn't have sucked in Philly or Denver with good front offices/coaches.  Or was Mark's poor fragile psyche so ruined by the Jets that he was never going to have any success no matter where he played? 

Sanchez sucked AND the front office/coaching did him no favors year 3 and beyond.  Tough sh*t, Mark.  Life isn't fair.  If you're looking for perfect circumstances every year you're in the league, you're never going to find it. 

Next comes the arguments relating Sanchez to David Carr.

[MasterChiefJets]

I liked Mark Sanchez and it is a shame that he will be remembered for that butt cheek debacle. 

He had great poise and pocket presence in the Rose Bowl against Penn State and I loved his grittiness his first two Jet seasons. I really feel that Rex and this team ruined him by 2011 when the Circus officially came to town. He was still young, but they decided to surround him with horrid personality receivers, terrible Coordinators and then bringing in Tebow later to destroy his confidence - Rex's lack of offensive focus pretty much left him to die.

Watching him get injured in that presason game against the Giants when he had no business being out there was despicable -  Not to mention Rex threw him under the bus years later since it was always everyone elses fault. 

Yeah, he could have been a bit more mature and he loved his hotdogs on the sideline, but he used to own it for every bad performance. He was not going to be Peyton Manning but being on a more competent and disciplined team would have progressed his NFL development immensely. Unfortunately, his time here ruined his QB career. At least he walked away with his health, his millions and a nice gig.

[HelenOfTroy]

3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Good for him. I was pretty sure he would at least get on the Latin ESPN channel in some capacity.  This is much better. 

This is why the big jock (FB players) major is Communications, lol.  Annenberg is loaded with contacts that want to put these guys in front of the cameras when they're done with playing.

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sanchez's first 2 years ended in the AFCCG for the exact reasons I demonstrated:  The best O-Line and Defense in football.  What's hard to understand about that? 

 

No NFL team goes on a run and wins 16 out of 20 games and 4 out of 6 playoff games with a bad quarterback.  It's fundamentally impossible.

And I suggest you re-watch the 2010 games against the Texans, Browns, Broncos, Lions, and Steelers in which Mark Sanchez' determination, grit, and accuracy turned 5 losses caused by the weak defense into stunning 4th quarter victories by a glued-together offense.

And Mark Sanchez was the best Jet on the field in two AFC Championship Games.

Savvy?

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, y2k8 said:

Are you really going to cite the Mud Bowl as your case in point against Wesley Walker?  We both know that is ridiculous.  

Like most players who played more than a handful of playoff games, some were better than others, but to say they came up small when it mattered most is contrary to fact.   If you want to blame anyone for the Jets not winning a SB in the 1980s, blame the Ring of Honor defensive players who couldn't seem to get off the field when it mattered most.  

That last sentence is ironic as its the exact same reason the 2010's Jets couldn't get to or win the Super Bowl either.

When you build a team around defense and the defense is missing the 'clutch' gene, you're doomed.  They blame Mark Sanchez.  They should blame Bart Scott, Darrell Revis, Rex Ryan, and the whole lot of 'em.

SAR I

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

That last sentence is ironic as its the exact same reason the 2010's Jets couldn't get to or win the Super Bowl either.

When you build a team around defense and the defense is missing the 'clutch' gene, you're doomed.  They blame Mark Sanchez.  They should blame Bart Scott, Darrell Revis, Rex Ryan, and the whole lot of 'em.

SAR I

Without those defensive guys clutching those 13-10 victories during the season there is no playoff blame to lay at their feet.

[14 in Green]

54 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

This is why the big jock (FB players) major is Communications, lol.  Annenberg is loaded with contacts that want to put these guys in front of the cameras when they're done with playing.

If this was true Syracuse would get every 5 star recruit they wanted.

Newhouse School of Public Communications. End of story.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Without those defensive guys clutching those 13-10 victories during the season there is no playoff blame to lay at their feet.

I agree, our D was decent.  But so too was our 22 year old quarterback.

But if you have to say which unit on the team a) exceeded expectations, b) met expectations, c) failed to meet expectations, our QB gets the "A" and the defense gets the "C".

SAR I

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I agree, our D was decent.  But so too was our 22 year old quarterback.

But if you have to say which unit on the team a) exceeded expectations, b) met expectations, c) failed to meet expectations, our QB gets the "A" and the defense gets the "C".

SAR I

1st in points, 1st in yards = decent?

How did he do in comparison to your expectations in 2012? 

[SAR I]

15 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

1st in points, 1st in yards = decent?

How did he do in comparison to your expectations in 2012? 

Sanchez met my expectations in 2012 because I was smart enough to look at the roster, look at the OC, look at the schedule, and realize we were dead in August before the season ever started.  I remember being up in Cortland at the Green and White scrimmage and knowing we were in deep trouble.  Tom Brady couldn't have eked out a winning season with that group.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

On 7/23/2019 at 10:38 PM, SAR I said:

Mark Sanchez did more as a Jet and was worth more as a Jet than the following Ring Of Honor members (your list is incomplete):

Al Toon
Freeman McNeil
Wesley Walker
Marty Lyons
Wayne Chrebet

Not to anyone who watched those players on the field. 

All are much more deserving than Sanchez.  

[NoBowles]

21 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Sanchez's first 2 years ended in the AFCCG for the exact reasons I demonstrated:  The best O-Line and Defense in football.  What's hard to understand about that? 

So 3 years into a career isn't long enough to take the training wheels off?  What, was Mark Sanchez still in his larvae or cocoon phase then?  We've seen rookie and 2nd year QB's balling out in this league in recent years (Pat Mahomes, Baker Mayfield, Carson Wentz, Andrew Luck) but somehow Sanchez needed extra coddling to become a good QB?  Please.  If that was truly the case he wouldn't have sucked in Philly or Denver with good front offices/coaches.  Or was Mark's poor fragile psyche so ruined by the Jets that he was never going to have any success no matter where he played? 

Sanchez sucked AND the front office/coaching did him no favors year 3 and beyond.  Tough sh*t, Mark.  Life isn't fair.  If you're looking for perfect circumstances every year you're in the league, you're never going to find it. 

Your mistaken my disagreement with misunderstanding. Particularly in 2010, the defense was not the best defense in the league, it was in 09, but not in 10. Sanchez absolutely contributed to that 2010 season, and led 5 late improbably comebacks that the defense blew late leads on. Im wasting way more time than I should on this topic, I don't give a rats ass about Sanchez.

[NoBowles]

On 7/23/2019 at 2:24 PM, Matt39 said:

Sanchez was never talented enough to be in that 6-20 range. He was backup who carved out a decent career. 

I disagree, prior to his shoulder injury he had good mobility, a strong enough arm, threw well on the run. He needed to only cut down on his turnovers to get to that range. Good coaching could have had him in that range.

[GREENBEAN]

On 7/23/2019 at 10:38 PM, SAR I said:

Mark Sanchez did more as a Jet and was worth more as a Jet than the following Ring Of Honor members (your list is incomplete):

Al Toon
Freeman McNeil
Wesley Walker
Marty Lyons
Wayne Chrebet

Those guys were "sentimental fan favorites", not best-of-all-time caliber players.  Mark Sanchez was the second-best Jets quarterback of all time and provided us the best 3 year run in franchise history.  Road playoff wins, epic fourth quarter comebacks, elevating his game in the postseason, having very limited talent around the passing game, having a lunatic head coach who hated offense.....Mark Sanchez deserves the ROH ahead of any of these guys.

SAR I

Don't you EVER talk about Freeman McNeil in a negative context again!!!  I LOOOOOOVE Him!! 

 He's most of the reason I'm a Jets fan....

wait a second...  he's the reason I'm a Jets fan??

That guy is an a$$hole for getting me into this crap!! 

Carry on 

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I disagree, prior to his shoulder injury he had good mobility, a strong enough arm, threw well on the run. He needed to only cut down on his turnovers to get to that range. Good coaching could have had him in that range. 

He didn't fix his turnover issues with better coaching at his subsequent stops.  He was one of the most turnover-prone QB's in NFL history on a rate basis.  I think only Joey Harrington was worse in that regard. 

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He didn't fix his turnover issues with better coaching at his subsequent stops.  He was one of the most turnover-prone QB's in NFL history on a rate basis.  I think only Joey Harrington was worse in that regard. 

Anything after his injury is irrelevant IMO. He lost half his arm strength and was not an NFL caliber thrower at that point.