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Who was worse at their job?

Who is most to blame?  

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

They offered more money than the Vikings, so its reasonable to think Macc felt the Jets were in the sweepstakes and that he actually wanted him. 

In the end, it doesn't matter what Cousins ultimately decided.  It just further shows that Macc's thought process at the QB position was terrible throughout his tenure here.  His first plan was Ryan Fitzpatrick (not just as a stopgap, as evidenced by him re-signing him in Year 2).  His 2nd plan was Christian Hackenberg.  His 3rd plan was Kirk Cousins.  His 4th plan was taking whichever QB that fell to him at the 3rd pick (after Heimerdinger masterminded the trade up), which could easily have been Josh Allen if not for Gettleman's incompetence.  He deserves absolutely zero credit for Sam Darnold being the end result of all of that incompetence. 

Actually what amazes me is people here actually thought he would sign with us. Why, so we can be ready for a SB run right when he is ready to retire?

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4 hours ago, nycdan said:

After four years of watching, I can say with almost complete confidence that Bowles was the least effective HC in the NFL.  There was no single aspect of the game he showed any talent for, and was unable to compensate with good assistants.  Utter failure.

Macc was certainly bottom-5 but before you can say he was the worst, you have to take a hard look at Gettleman.  Even drafting Hack in the 2nd round doesn't compare to skipping over Darnold for Barkley with the #2 pick in the draft.  That (hopefully) could go down as a Sam Bowie pick in a few years.  Barkley will be better than Bowie, but still...

Thus, I voted for Bowles as the worst of the two. 

 

🤔 Whoa. Let’s slow down for a minute and talk about this...

If Gettleman took Darnold (or any other QB) last year, that kid was never getting on the field in ‘18, rightly or wrongly because of Eli. He wouldn’t play until mid to late ‘19, so why would you take a QB then and waste almost 2 years of his rookie deal.

You claiming Gettleman taking Barkley over Darnold was a worse decision then Macc picking Hackenberg is beyond ridiculous. Forget the fact that Hack never saw a field, Barkley was the best RB in the NFL in his rookie season. So yeah, he might be better then Sam Bowie, lol.

You have no idea yet how Darnold’s career is going to play out, and you also have no idea how Daniel Jones’ career is going to play out either.

You have two things to cling to here, and neither is very sturdy.

1. The argument about the value of QB over RB, but you already know Barkley is really good, and you don’t know enough about Darnold. Plus if the Giants had picked him you’d know even less because he’d be holding a clipboard.

2. Your “feelings” that Darnold will be great, Jones will stink, and Barkley will not be worth a second contract. You can “feel” however you want about those 3 things, but nobody knows yet if one of them is true.

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17 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Actually what amazes me is people here actually thought he would sign with us. Why, so we can be ready for a SB run right when he is ready to retire? 

Does it matter if he would have signed with us or not?  The only thing that saved us from Kirk Cousins is Macc's own incompetence.  He'd built such a bad roster that no money in the world would have convinced a league average QB to come here on a massive deal. 

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37 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

🤔 Whoa. Let’s slow down for a minute and talk about this...

If Gettleman took Darnold (or any other QB) last year, that kid was never getting on the field in ‘18, rightly or wrongly because of Eli. He wouldn’t play until mid to late ‘19, so why would you take a QB then and waste almost 2 years of his rookie deal.

You claiming Gettleman taking Barkley over Darnold was a worse decision then Macc picking Hackenberg is beyond ridiculous. Forget the fact that Hack never saw a field, Barkley was the best RB in the NFL in his rookie season. So yeah, he might be better then Sam Bowie, lol.

You have no idea yet how Darnold’s career is going to play out, and you also have no idea how Daniel Jones’ career is going to play out either.

You have two things to cling to here, and neither is very sturdy.

1. The argument about the value of QB over RB, but you already know Barkley is really good, and you don’t know enough about Darnold. Plus if the Giants had picked him you’d know even less because he’d be holding a clipboard.

2. Your “feelings” that Darnold will be great, Jones will stink, and Barkley will not be worth a second contract. You can “feel” however you want about those 3 things, but nobody knows yet if one of them is true.

I strongly feel that blowing a mid-2nd round pick is not even close to as bad as blowing an opportunity to take a Franchise QB when it comes.  Regardless of how Darnold turns out, if we had taken Barkley over Darnold, it would have been the all-time worst pick in Jets history.  This board would have gone total mushroom cloud.  Barkley may be an All-Pro for years to come.  I would still rather roll the dice on getting a true FQB (not reaching for a Josh Allen, mind you but taking a guy like Darnold who has a real shot).  

I'm a guy who looks back at the Mangini trade up to get Sanchez as a great trade.  Sanchez didn't work out the way we hoped but at the time, it was a fantastic move to try to get us the FQB we needed.  Had he been a little better, we could have had 1 or 2 Lombardis in our case.  So going only off of what I knew at the time, I think, in my opinion, that Gettleman was a complete moron who couldn't accept what his eyes and every other pair of eyes in the NFL was seeing.  Eli was done.  Had been for 2-3 years.  So he skips the QB to take a RB.  That's like taking a great Safety instead of rolling the dice on a FQB like we did in 2017, only worse perhaps because I believe Darnold was rated higher than either Mahomes or Watson were at that time.

To me that was far worse for his team than drafting Hack with a 2nd rounder was for the Jets.  

How Daniel Jones turns out isn't really relevant to that moment, but judging from the sheer scale of 'news' talking about how amazing Jones is playing in pre-season, it seems to me that the Giants are in an all-out media storm to try to sell their fan-base on him as the future.  They got Boomer to say he 'knows' at least 2 teams would have taken him before 17 but every GM has pretty much refuted that.  It's kind of embarrassing and while it has no bearing on how he actually develops, I'd be sick to my stomach if I was a Giants fan right now.  I know because I've been in their shoes a LOT over the last 40 years.

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8 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Let’s hope Gase can win with the roster Macc put together.

Yup....after another year of draft picks and spending 70+ mil in FA

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Bowles.

For never fielding an offense.

For almost never doing a trick play.

For making the Jets so boringly predictable...

 

I still don't know why they fired Mac, though I think they probably got the guy they needed.

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Name one in-game adjustment that Bowles made that allowed the Jets to win a game.

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59 minutes ago, phill1c said:

I still don't know why they fired Mac

This is why we can't have nice things. 

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8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We'll see.  The Texans fired their GM after just 1 season and he almost immediately snagged a lucrative job with the Bills.

If Macc doesn't want to jump back in right away that makes sense.  He'll never be done counting the money he stole from this organization. 

Either way, he was FAR worse than Todd Bowles at his job, even as terrible as Bowles was.  It's easy to see the in-game decision making and determine that a coach is terrible.  It's harder to see the big picture stuff and realize just how little talent Macc provided, especially at premium positions.  5 offseasons and we have terrible corners, no OL pipeline, questionable pass rush and 1 free agency class that was really an attempt to put lipstick on a pig.  That's Macc's legacy, and its terrible.  He had high draft picks to work with and lots of money to spend, and couldn't build anything of significance. 

Nope. Mac’s legacy will be Sam Darnold. 

As bad as Mac was, he had a few hits. 

Bowles had no hits. 

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24 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Nope. Mac’s legacy will be Sam Darnold. 

As bad as Mac was, he had a few hits. 

Bowles had no hits.  

It's literally impossible for a GM never to have any hits.  Macc brought through hundreds of different players over his 5-year tenure, including 34 draft picks.  Of course a few of them were going to hit.  Especially since 4/5 drafts he was picking early in each round.  Throwing darts at a dartboard would have been an equal or better strategy in the draft than what Macc did over his 5 years here. 

Bowles had a few hits.  You guys love to talk up Jamal Adams but refuse to give any credit to Bowles.  And in that 2015 season, Bowles led the Jets to wins over teams we historically have been terrible against:  The Patriots and Giants.  He also swept the Dolphins that season, something we hadn't done in some time. 

It's not much, but its something.  Bowles was dreadful but was still better at his job than Macc was at his.  You can't win without talent in this league and Macc gave him one of the 3 worst rosters in football for 3 straight seasons. 

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10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's literally impossible for a GM never to have any hits.  Macc brought through hundreds of different players over his 5-year tenure, including 34 draft picks.  Of course a few of them were going to hit.  Especially since 4/5 drafts he was picking early in each round.  Throwing darts at a dartboard would have been an equal or better strategy in the draft than what Macc did over his 5 years here. 

Bowles had a few hits.  You guys love to talk up Jamal Adams but refuse to give any credit to Bowles.  And in that 2015 season, Bowles led the Jets to wins over teams we historically have been terrible against:  The Patriots and Giants.  He also swept the Dolphins that season, something we hadn't done in some time. 

It's not much, but its something.  Bowles was dreadful but was still better at his job than Macc was at his.  You can't win without talent in this league and Macc gave him one of the 3 worst rosters in football for 3 straight seasons. 

Nope. Bowles was absolutely awful and had zero hits. 

Jamal Adams is responsible for his success, I give Bowles no credit for him. 

Mac drafted Sam Darnold. 

Case closed. 

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11 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

It amazes me this isstill brought up.

Cousins was never coming to the Jets but if Mac didn't  at least try there would be outcry he was derelict in his duties. 

What ever made anyone think a QB as old as Cousins was going to sign with a rebuilding franchise is beyond me. 

 

So, it's your premise is Mac didn't really want Cousins, but actually offered him more money than the Vikings ended up paying him strictly for PR reasons?

 

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24 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

So, it's your premise is Mac didn't really want Cousins, but actually offered him more money than the Vikings ended up paying him strictly for PR reasons?

 

I really don't  know the answer to that, I just know it was ridiculous to think a QB who obviously wanted to finally make a splash was going to pick the Jets to do it with

 

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4 hours ago, peebag said:

Name one in-game adjustment that Bowles made that allowed the Jets to win a game.

You don’t need to make adjustments if the game plan is perfect. 

According to Bowles, the game plan wasn’t the issue. It was the execution. 

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Nope. Bowles was absolutely awful and had zero hits. 

Jamal Adams is responsible for his success, I give Bowles no credit for him. 

Mac drafted Sam Darnold. 

Case closed. 

 

So people wanted Bowles to “develop” Macc’s sh*tty picks but give Bowles no credit for the few players who look good. Got it.

 

No credit for Darnold improving down the stretch with an OC that is now backpacking through Europe?

 

Ditto for Robby Anderson, who had a similar uptick down the stretch?

 

None for Herndon, Avery Williamson or Jordan Jenkins? They all developed “on their own”?

 

If you’re gonna credit Macc for his few hits, you can’t simultaneously give zero credit to Bowles for players on the roster who showed improvement.

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If I had to pick between the two then I'd probably have to say Bowles was the least capable.  He just got worse and worse.  It wasn't that noticeable at first because he had some confidence and his weaknesses hadn't been exposed.  But after he kept swapping out OC's and putting so much faith in Rodgers.... ugh.

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We should have kept Maccagnan for 4 more years without Bowles. Then after that doesn’t work out, rehire Bowles without Maccagnan for the 4 after that and rate that failure.

Then we’d have known for sure which failure was worse!

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18 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

To me I can't  believe he survived not getting fired during his press conference of the Cleveland game when he said he made no adjustments to the game plan after Baker came in. Who makes no adjustments to compensate for a QB change. It should have been a TMZ moment with CJ being tackled rushing the podium and screaming you're fired while being dragged away by security.  

IIRC, he also mumbled something about not having any tape on Baker... after the organization just spent months studying every aspect of Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen and Josh Rosen's lives, off the field and on.

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9 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I really don't  know the answer to that, I just know it was ridiculous to think a QB who obviously wanted to finally make a splash was going to pick the Jets to do it with

 

That I don't disagree with, but I think it's more of an indictment against Mac than anything else.

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Mac and it’s not even close, and TB was bad 

Mac better watch out BVW giving him a run for his money for worst GM in NY history 

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This is like throwing sh*t and puke into a blender and asking which one is responsible for the bad smell. They both sucked, and combined they sucked worse. Both should have been gone a year earlier. Anyone claiming Bowles is better than Mac, or vise Versa is making personal. Bowles had three OCs in his last three years and built the worst staff I have ever seen. Macs drafting and personnel moves were horrific. It’s impossible to pick out which one was worse. Now for the good news , they are both gone! Let’s move on and hope we got the right people in place now.

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I've never seen a GM miss out on more FAs in one off-season despite being the high bidder. Of course, maybe some of that was the the players didn't want to play for Bowles. The two suck so bad, not sure it matters whether one was 97% suck and the other 98%. Equal suck is accurate enough IMHO.

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1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:

Mac and it’s not even close, and TB was bad 

Mac better watch out BVW giving him a run for his money for worst GM in NY history 

Idzik, Isiah Thomas and Mike Milbury say hi.

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12 hours ago, sciond said:

they sucked more than all who have sucked before

well,..

rich-kotite.jpg

 

:ahhh:

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

I've never seen a GM miss out on more FAs in one off-season despite being the high bidder. Of course, maybe some of that was the the players didn't want to play for Bowles. The two suck so bad, not sure it matters whether one was 97% suck and the other 98%. Equal suck is accurate enough IMHO.

It was primarily because players don't want to play for this sh*t team and have half their money taken away by high taxes.   Hence why we have to overpay free agents, and even then sometimes don't land them, as they're just using us to get more money out of the team they really want to go to. 

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22 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Macaggnan passed on a league MVP quarterback for a ******* safety when this team needed a QB. That is his legacy.

You act like the Jets were the only team that passed on him.

And no, as much I don't like Macc, if Darnold becomes a franchise QB, then that'll be his ultimate legacy. 

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Sure Bowles was terrible but Maccenberg will always have the infamous 2nd round pick to his name. So both blew...obviously.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

You act like the Jets were the only team that passed on him.

And no, as much I don't like Macc, if Darnold becomes a franchise QB, then that'll be his ultimate legacy.  

An end result which he deserves 0 credit for.  Zero. 

If it were truly up to Macc, and not to complete dumb luck, either Kirk Cousins or Josh Allen would be our QB at this moment. 

Fortunately, we were saved from Cousins because of Macc's own incompetence in building a roster, and were saved from Josh Allen because of Dave Gettleman. 

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12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

So people wanted Bowles to “develop” Macc’s sh*tty picks but give Bowles no credit for the few players who look good. Got it.

 

No credit for Darnold improving down the stretch with an OC that is now backpacking through Europe?

 

Ditto for Robby Anderson, who had a similar uptick down the stretch?

 

None for Herndon, Avery Williamson or Jordan Jenkins? They all developed “on their own”?

 

If you’re gonna credit Macc for his few hits, you can’t simultaneously give zero credit to Bowles for players on the roster who showed improvement.

Sorry Bowles did nothing to develop any of them. 

Mac gave Bowles an aged roster to win now and won GM of the year and then was forced to break it all down. 

Not saying Mac was even remotely good but he had some big hits and some massive misses. 

Bowles was a wasteland of nothingness. 

End of the day, Mac delivered us our franchise QB. 

That trumps everything. And now he’s gone and can’t make any more mistakes. 

Sam Darnold. The Mac legacy. 

(we can keep going but you aren’t convincing me Bowles didn’t suck more than Mac). 

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1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

Sorry Bowles did nothing to develop any of them. 

Mac gave Bowles an aged roster to win now and won GM of the year and then was forced to break it all down. 

Not saying Mac was even remotely good but he had some big hits and some massive misses. 

Bowles was a wasteland of nothingness. 

End of the day, Mac delivered us our franchise QB. 

That trumps everything. And now he’s gone and can’t make any more mistakes. 

Sam Darnold. The Mac legacy. 

(we can keep going but you aren’t convincing me Bowles didn’t suck more than Mac).  

 

Of course I'm not going to convince you.  You're obstinate despite the bevy of evidence against Mike Maccagnan. 

Todd Bowles is employed by Bruce Arians as a Defensive Coordinator while Macc will be lucky to get a job as an area scout.  That's evidence enough for me of what people in positions of power think of these 2. 

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Of course I'm not going to convince you.  You're obstinate despite the bevy of evidence against Mike Maccagnan. 

And you’re obstinate despite the bevy against Bowles. 

Name one thing Bowles did that is in the same stratosphere as Sam Darnold. 

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Just now, Peace Frog said:

And you’re obstinate despite the bevy against Bowles. 

Name one thing Bowles did that is in the same stratosphere as Sam Darnold. 

I've already admitted Bowles was a dreadful HC.  But he's at least a decent Defensive Coordinator.  Had he run the defense instead of Kacy Rodgers I imagine history would have been a bit kinder to him.  But he was too trusting of his friend which is one of the biggest strikes against him. 

Meanwhile, I've already shown just how flawed the Sam Darnold argument is when it comes to Maccagnan's legacy.  If left up to anything but dumb luck, our QB is either Kirk Cousins or Josh Allen. 

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I've already admitted Bowles was a dreadful HC.  But he's at least a decent Defensive Coordinator.  Had he run the defense instead of Kacy Rodgers I imagine history would have been a bit kinder to him.  But he was too trusting of his friend which is one of the biggest strikes against him. 

Meanwhile, I've already shown just how flawed the Sam Darnold argument is when it comes to Maccagnan's legacy.  If left up to anything but dumb luck, our QB is either Kirk Cousins or Josh Allen. 

Is Cousins or Allen here?

There are no what if's when the story is written. 

Sam Darnold is Mac’s legacy.

And it’s not done being written. Let’s see what happens with the roster as it stands when he left. 

Bowles is an AWESOME DC (or maybe not lol) but he was one of the worst HCs we’ve ever had. 

Yeah let’s punt down 3 scores with 4 minutes left. 

GTFO. 

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5 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Is Cousins or Allen here?

There are no what if's when the story is written. 

Sam Darnold is Mac’s legacy.

You don't get the benefit of the doubt when you build an awful roster and then stumble into a QB.  There are still people here who think Macc got fired undeservedly over that. 

Keep repeating it over and over, it doesn't make it true.  His legacy is building a dreadful roster over a 5-year period and never getting a significant job in the league again. 

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