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Bowles vs Gase Differnces


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5 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

No one had a problem w/ bowles after his 1st training camp and a 10 win season.  Warts came out later.

Lets see how this plays out b4 we crown gase the next bill bellichek.

This. The problem with toilet was never at training camp. It was selecting poor players, piss poor gameplans, no halftime adjustments, lack of motivation to the point the Jets get trounced by the Buffalo Bills with a QB right off the street 41-10. Unforgivable.

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9 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

No one had a problem w/ bowles after his 1st training camp and a 10 win season.  Warts came out later.

Lets see how this plays out b4 we crown gase the next bill bellichek.

The Jets won a lot of games in 2015 with a loaded, veteran roster against a very weak schedule. The signs were there in 2015 and to have a team unprepared to play in a win and in game told us everything.  

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4 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

This. The problem with toilet was never at training camp. It was selecting poor players, piss poor gameplans, no halftime adjustments, lack of motivation to the point the Jets get trounced by the Buffalo Bills with a QB right off the street 41-10. Unforgivable.

Thought that was the GM's job. 

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

The Jets won a lot of games in 2015 with a loaded, veteran roster against a very weak schedule. The signs were there in 2015 and to have a team unprepared to play in a win and in game told us everything.  

Agree, Bowles lost the only game that mattered, Gase would have gone all in on the last game vs Buffalo, it was just another day for Bowles - turned out to be Rex's Super Bowl

Passion and influence seem to be the difference, both are hard working and intelligent men, did not get this far without that...

Gase does not seem like he can ever get enough, and that led to him being overwhelmed in Miami but he still kept fighting to save a ship that sunk - having Douglas and strong FO to keep him in check hopefully avoids a repeat

Bowles is loyal, worked hard, had success and deserved a chance, he seemed to have great respect from people around him (who knew him), but did not push the limits of himself, his coaches or his players, could not make the next step, gave up, great right hand man, not the man 

 

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12 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Agree, Bowles lost the only game that mattered, Gase would have gone all in on the last game vs Buffalo, it was just another day for Bowles - turned out to be Rex's Super Bowl

Passion and influence seem to be the difference, both are hard working and intelligent men, did not get this far without that...

Gase does not seem like he can ever get enough, and that led to him being overwhelmed in Miami but he still kept fighting to save a ship that sunk - having Douglas and strong FO to keep him in check hopefully avoids a repeat

Bowles is loyal, worked hard, had success and deserved a chance, he seemed to have great respect from people around him (who knew him), but did not push the limits of himself, his coaches or his players, could not make the next step, gave up, great right hand man, not the man 

 

That last part is a very fair characterization.  I think Bowles was a good DC when under a strong HC who was elevated to a position he was completely unsuited for.  HC demands a much broader skill set than a Coordinator and some guys just don't have it to make that leap.  Game clock management is a great example.  Setting the tone for expectations and discipline is another.  When to throw a challenge flag.  How to handle the press.  The list goes on. 

Bowles looked overwhelmed at times struggling with these things, even after four years on the job.  I don't know how easily you can tease that out during an interview, but to me, those are the things you need to get right.  If you're hiring a guy as a HC just to be a Coordinator on one side of the ball (which many teams do), then he had better be good at the HC part of the job also.  Andy Reid is an example of when it works.  Herm/Rex/Todd are examples of when it doesn't.

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Bowles was a 1st time Head Coach and seemed lost a lot of times, even after a couple of years in the job.  Gase was probably like that to an extent in Miami but seemed more prepared and proactive given a 2nd chance.  If/When Bowles gets a 2nd chance somewhere, it'll be interesting to see if he learned from his mistakes.

I think Bowles'  biggest flaw was his absolutely horrible evaluation of assistant coaches / coordinators.  He had a really miserable coaching staff for his entire tenure here.  Gase's current coaching staff is, at least on paper, significantly better.

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37 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Since the Parcells days, it has never been really clear who was making those decisions.

Given that HC's can't spend the NFL season watching college tape like scouts and the GM can, the ultimate credit/blame for draft choices falls on the GM.  Even if the GM takes the HC's input into account, its up to him to make the final call and either agree with the HC or tell him to f**k off.  

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31 minutes ago, nycdan said:

That last part is a very fair characterization.  I think Bowles was a good DC when under a strong HC who was elevated to a position he was completely unsuited for.  HC demands a much broader skill set than a Coordinator and some guys just don't have it to make that leap.  Game clock management is a great example.  Setting the tone for expectations and discipline is another.  When to throw a challenge flag.  How to handle the press.  The list goes on. 

Yep.  Think of it like this:  You can be a really good car mechanic.  But that skillset is VERY different from running the shop.  You go from doing the grunt work (I.E. teaching technique) to suddenly concerning yourself with payroll, hiring, customer service, finances, etc. 

Being an NFL HC is like being the CEO of the operation.  Not every good Coordinator can do it.  Hence why the league has seen a lot of "career coordinators" like Norv Turner and Gregg Williams.  Jim Schwartz is a relatively recent addition to that category.  Those guys are excellent at coordinating one unit of the field, but awful HC's. 

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1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Agree, Bowles lost the only game that mattered, Gase would have gone all in on the last game vs Buffalo, it was just another day for Bowles - turned out to be Rex's Super Bowl

Passion and influence seem to be the difference, both are hard working and intelligent men, did not get this far without that...

Gase does not seem like he can ever get enough, and that led to him being overwhelmed in Miami but he still kept fighting to save a ship that sunk - having Douglas and strong FO to keep him in check hopefully avoids a repeat

Bowles is loyal, worked hard, had success and deserved a chance, he seemed to have great respect from people around him (who knew him), but did not push the limits of himself, his coaches or his players, could not make the next step, gave up, great right hand man, not the man 

 

Bowles deserves way too much blame for that game. His 17MM CB played the worst game of his career against Watkins, and both Powell and Ivory were hurt leaving the offense one dimensional.

Even despite all of this the Jets win this game if Fitzpatrick doesn’t throw an awful 4th quarter INT. 

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11 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

No one had a problem w/ bowles after his 1st training camp and a 10 win season.  Warts came out later.

Lets see how this plays out b4 we crown gase the next bill bellichek.

Some saw warts in the 10 win season.  Many did.

Big difference is Bowles came in as a relatively unknown DC who was a sought after HC candidate and fans thought we were lucky to get him that we hit payday.

Gase is a guy that some, like you, despise for some reason so arent giving him anything.  Best part is coming off their coaching history prior to the Jets, Gase is by far and away the better candidate.  He had a whole lot more success as an OC than the one year Bowles had.  And criticize or not, he has NFL HC experience that hopefully he learned from.  

 

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25 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

Bowles was a 1st time Head Coach and seemed lost a lot of times, even after a couple of years in the job.  Gase was probably like that to an extent in Miami but seemed more prepared and proactive given a 2nd chance.  If/When Bowles gets a 2nd chance somewhere, it'll be interesting to see if he learned from his mistakes.

I think Bowles'  biggest flaw was his absolutely horrible evaluation of assistant coaches / coordinators.  He had a really miserable coaching staff for his entire tenure here.  Gase's current coaching staff is, at least on paper, significantly better.

I'm not sure a guy who believes that recovering an onside kick is easier than picking up a 4th and 6 ever gets a HC job in the NFL again.  And that's just one example of how completely and utterly lost he was as a HC; punting vs. kicking, kicking vs. punting, punting vs going, kicking vs. onside. etc.  He had it all backward.  Completely backward.  And he was doing this, 4 years into the job.  The same sh*t that bit him the ass before, he was still doing.  Those type of things dont suddenly change when you're a 60 year old man in been in Football your whole life.  Basic concepts were totally foreign.  That doesnt change. 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Some saw warts in the 10 win season.  Many did.

Big difference is Bowles came in as a relatively unknown DC who was a sought after HC candidate and fans thought we were lucky to get him that we hit payday.

Gase is a guy that some, like you, despise for some reason so arent giving him anything.  Best part is coming off their coaching history prior to the Jets, Gase is by far and away the better candidate.  He had a whole lot more success as an OC than the one year Bowles had.  And criticize or not, he has NFL HC experience that hopefully he learned from.  

 

I despise Gase cause I want to wait and see him coach more then 3 practices to make a determination on how much better we are?

Just like Im a troll for thinking crowder’s loss isnt that big a deal cause hes not a great player and our young guys can step up?

This is why our fan base has the reputation it does.  

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12 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I despise Gase cause I want to wait and see him coach more then 3 practices to make a determination on how much better we are?

Wow!

No, that makes no sense.  no one ever said, hey anyone has looked good so far but I still despise him because its only over 3 practices.

I bet you would have no problem talking up a player after a few practices.  Or Darnold, etc

Its backwards. You wont give Gase any credit after 5 months, after a whole lot more than 3 practices, after all the props he gets from the players and media because you despise him.  

Your prerogative, just own it

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Until further notice, Gase is the guy he was while the HC at Miami.

If that impressed you, you are excited about having him here.

If it didn’t, you are leery about him.

If you were indifferent to him there, you are taking a wait and see approach. That’s where I am for now.

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1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

Until further notice, Gase is the guy he was while the HC at Miami.

If that impressed you, you are excited about having him here.

If it didn’t, you are leery about him.

If you were indifferent to him there, you are taking a wait and see approach. That’s where I am for now.

 

My optimistic take:  It's really hard to win with the Dolphins organization, and he probably learned some things from his experience there. 

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7 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I despise Gase cause I want to wait and see him coach more then 3 practices to make a determination on how much better we are?

Just like Im a troll for thinking crowder’s loss isnt that big a deal cause hes not a great player and our young guys can step up?

This is why our fan base has the reputation it does.  

Hes coached a lot more than 3 practices.  This is what the 7th today?  And OTAs, rookie camp, etc?  You just have observed 3

Youre a complaining fan, its what you do.  You havent stopped since he was hired.  Complaining all the time is not the same as I'll wait to see

And that the rep of this fanbase, dont be slinging mud, lol.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

My optimistic take:  It's really hard to win with the Dolphins organization, and he probably learned some things from his experience there. 

You could say Belichick had a similar situation in CLE.  Couldn't win there.  Did okay in a future HC gig.

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

My optimistic take:  It's really hard to win with the Dolphins organization, and he probably learned some things from his experience there. 

Mine is similar and I add that when we started the search I wanted this HC to be someone who coached NFL football before as a HC.  I was open to monken if thats the way they went give the success he had with the Tampa offense.

But NFL experience made it a simple choice, Gase or McCarthy.  McCarthy was said to be old school, stubborn and thick headed when it came to offense, wasnt a new school offensive guy.  Made the choice simple to me.  I dont see going .500 over 3 seasons with that shlt org, with Tannehill injured all the time and the garbage he fielded at QB.  I was shocked he won as many games as he did.  So I was fine with it.  Called for him as soon as he was let go

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