2015-17 Jets Drafts in review

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Says the guy with the irreparable groin pull. 

It’s the IT band. Idzik was martyred 

[slats]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s the IT band. Idzik was martyred 

Alright, you wanna give credit to Idzik for his incompetence being an assist in getting Rex fired, but their replacements also sucked. We're on the same page now in liking Gase and Douglas. Which is nice, and I hope that we're on the same page for years to come. But Idzik totally, completely sucked, and him being a part of getting Rex fired netted the Jets nothing positive for the next four years. 

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Now that we're the requisite 3+ seasons since the 2015-16 drafts and entering Year 3 of the 2017 draft class, we can properly evaluate them in hindsight.  Here's how they look:

2015

• 1.6:  DT Leonard Williams:  17.0 career Sacks, 32 TFL's, 85 QB Hits; UFA following 2019 season; lazy and fat   Grade - B
• 2.37:  WR Devin Smith:  10 catches, 135 yards over 2 seasons; signed by DAL to Reserve/Future Contract in 2019  Grade - F
• 3.82:  LB Lorenzo Mauldin:  6.5 career Sacks; out of NFL since September 2018; stiff hips/bad athlete  Grade - F
• 4.103:  QB Bryce Petty:  1-6 record, 57.5 QB Rating; out of NFL since September 2018  Grade - D
• 5.152:  G Jarvis Harrison:  0 games played, Practice Squad in 2015; out of NFL since 2016; lazy and fat  Grade - F
• 7.223:  NT Deon Simon:  1 start, 1.5 career Sacks; signed by GB to Reserve/Future Contract in December 2018  Grade - F

2015 Draft Grade:  F

 

2016

• 1.20:  LB Darron Lee:  4.0 career Sacks, 17 TFLs, 3 INT, 11 PD; traded to KC for 6th round pick in 2019; Tiny   Grade - F
• 2.51:  QB Christian Hackenberg:  0 NFL games played; out of NFL since November 2018; worst draft pick in Jets history  Grade - F
• 3.83:  LB Jordan Jenkins:  12.5 career Sacks, 13 TFLs, 4 FF's, 27 QB Hits  Grade - A
• 4.118:  CB Juston Burris:  2 INT, 7 PD; signed by CLE in November 2018; CB9/CB10 on Browns depth chart  Grade - F
• 5.158:  OT Brandon Shell:  34 games, 29 Starts; JAG RT  Grade - B
• 7.235:  P Lac Edwards:  3 year starter, 44.6 yards/punt, Long 70  Grade - A
• 7.241:  WR/ST Charone Peake:  22 catches, 214 yards, 1 FR, 1 TD  Grade - B

2016 Draft Grade:  D-

 

2017

• 1.6:  S Jamal Adams:  5.5 career Sacks, 1 INT, 4 FF, 18 TFL, 18 PD; Box Safety/Should have been Mahomes/Watson  Grade - B
• 2.39:  S Marcus Maye:  3 career INT's, 4 PD's, 2 FF; another Safety?? / Never healthy  Grade - C
• 3.79:  WR ArDarius Stewart:  6 catches, 82 yards; out of NFL since 2017; abortion of a pick  Grade - F
• 4.141:  WR Chad Hansen:  9 catches, 94 yards; out of NFL since 2017; abortion of a pick  Grade - F
• 5.150:  TE Jordan Leggett:  4 starts, 14 catches, 114 yards, 1 TD; waived in May 2019  Grade - F
• 5.181:  DL Dylan Donohue:  4 games, 0 career sacks, 1 TFL; cut in September 2018; drove wrong way thru Lincoln Tunnel  Grade - F
• 6.188:  RB Elijah McGuire:  180 carries, 591 yards, 19 catches, 370 receiving yards, 6 total TD's  Grade - B
• 6.197:  DB Jeremy Clark:  2 games played; cut in August 2019  Grade - F
• 6.204:  CB Derrick Jones:  4 games played; currently CB5/CB6 on depth chart  Grade - C

2017 Draft Grade:  D

You could have simplified this and just said Macc Sucks like you did 9000 other times .

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

People say you can't evaluate drafts for 3 years.  With Jeremy Clark getting cut today it mostly closed the book on the 2017 draft a year ahead of schedule. 

The bigger question is does it close your book on Macc Finally

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Alright, you wanna give credit to Idzik for his incompetence being an assist in getting Rex fired, but their replacements also sucked. We're on the same page now in liking Gase and Douglas. Which is nice, and I hope that we're on the same page for years to come. But Idzik totally, completely sucked, and him being a part of getting Rex fired netted the Jets nothing positive for the next four years. 

We’ll agree that Idzik sucked, but we’ll disagree on two major qualifiers:

 

1. Idzik walked into an impossible situation because Rex was an entitled manbaby whose tentacles reached from the beat reporters all the way up to the owner; in fact, the only reason we were interviewing people like Idzik was because nobody of merit wanted to walk into this rat trap.

2. While most of the draft picks sucked, Idzik knew the team needed to be rebuilt and he went about compiling picks and cap space to remedy the singularly disastrous Tannenbaum/Rex Era. Maccagnan walked into a clean slate with tons of cap space and zero bad contracts; Idzik inherited the opposite on both fronts and spent most of his short time here plumbing those leaks. Maccagnan walked into an infinitely better situation AND got the chance to carry out his entire, failed plan. This is what makes Maccagnan worse, imo. 

[GREENBEAN]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, I've seen many Jets draft picks, and stand behind Hackenberg being the worst pick in all of Jets history.  Even worse than Bryan Thomas over Ed Reed, or passing on Warren Sapp for Kyle Brady, or Dewayne Robertson or Gholston.  Mike Maccagnan truly believed Christian Hackenberg, who deserved a 5th/6th round grade, to be our franchise QB, and yet he never played a snap in the NFL.  He even failed miserably in the AAF.  At least Bryan Thomas and Kyle Brady carved out decent careers in the pros. 

And yes, the pick of Jamal Adams deserves a B, for playing a position that doesn't matter and for the opportunity cost of passing on Mahomes/Watson. 

Cutting a steak into cubes is still a steak.  

How many ways must you repackage this same conversation?   And on this day of two signings to discuss.  TWO!!!    How dare you sir! 

PS. Ghosltson was a far worse pick (EDIT: Bigger bust)  than Hack no matter what your feelings are.  He was the 6th overall pick for God's sakes. 

 

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

 

So the Ape is a ghost writer for 80 ?

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

We’ll agree that Idzik sucked, but we’ll disagree on two major qualifiers:

 

1. Idzik walked into an impossible situation because Rex was an entitled manbaby whose tentacles reached from the beat reporters all the way up to the owner; in fact, the only reason we were interviewing people like Idzik was because nobody of merit wanted to walk into this rat trap.

2. While most of the draft picks sucked, Idzik knew the team needed to be rebuilt and he went about compiling picks and cap space to remedy the singularly disastrous Tannenbaum/Rex Era. Maccagnan walked into a clean slate with tons of cap space and zero bad contracts; Idzik inherited the opposite on both fronts and spent most of his short time here plumbing those leaks. Maccagnan walked into an infinitely better situation AND got the chance to carry out his entire, failed plan. This is what makes Maccagnan worse, imo. 

manbaby

 

[NoBowles]

In other breaking news, the world is actually not flat, its round!

[Joe W. Namath]

Sam darnold, jamal adams, leveon bell, robby anderson, chris herndon, jameson crowder, polite,cashman, osemele, adam gase, greg williams, quinnen williams

#bringbackmac

[slats]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

We’ll agree that Idzik sucked, but we’ll disagree on two major qualifiers:

 

1. Idzik walked into an impossible situation because Rex was an entitled manbaby whose tentacles reached from the beat reporters all the way up to the owner; in fact, the only reason we were interviewing people like Idzik was because nobody of merit wanted to walk into this rat trap.

2. While most of the draft picks sucked, Idzik knew the team needed to be rebuilt and he went about compiling picks and cap space to remedy the singularly disastrous Tannenbaum/Rex Era. Maccagnan walked into a clean slate with tons of cap space and zero bad contracts; Idzik inherited the opposite on both fronts and spent most of his short time here plumbing those leaks. Maccagnan walked into an infinitely better situation AND got the chance to carry out his entire, failed plan. This is what makes Maccagnan worse, imo. 

So we shouldn't blame Idzik because no one else would take the job? 

Idzik's draft legacy is Quincy Enunwa and the pick Mac got for Sheldon Richardson that became part of the Sam Darnold deal. That's it. The sum total. 

You can hate Jamal Adams until the cows come home, but he's better than anything John Idzik ever did, or will, be responsible for drafting. Plus Leonard, Darnold, Herndon... it's not even close. And Mac sucked, overall! But Idzik, hired only because the job was toxic and he didn't care, was the dead last worst. 

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Cutting a steak into cubes is still a steak.  

How many ways must you repackage this same conversation?   And on this day of two signings to discuss.  TWO!!!    How dare you sir! 

PS. Ghosltson was a far worse pick than Hack no matter what your feelings are.  He was the 6th overall pick for God's sakes. 

 

Gholston’s resume was spotless. He was Ohio State’s all-time sack leader, first-team All Big Ten, and PFW All American. Then he went to the Combine and did this: 

[Jet Nut]

46 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You’re going to pull a muscle reaching this hard. 

Not nearly as hard of even the same kind of reaching you have to do to defend your boy Idzik

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

So we shouldn't blame Idzik because no one else would take the job? 

Idzik's draft legacy is Quincy Enunwa and the pick Mac got for Sheldon Richardson that became part of the Sam Darnold deal. That's it. The sum total. 

You can hate Jamal Adams until the cows come home, but he's better than anything John Idzik ever did, or will, be responsible for drafting. Plus Leonard, Darnold, Herndon... it's not even close. And Mac sucked, overall! But Idzik, hired only because the job was toxic and he didn't care, was the dead last worst. 

How do you disparage the Sheldon Richardson pick and then give Macc credit for the Leonard Williams pick? They’re basically the same player, except Richardson is a better athlete. And we don’t need to rehash how he ended up with Darnold because it was a combination of consistent sucking and divine intervention. We should give him credit for falling backwards into the third overall pick three years into his stewardship? And Adams’ legacy will be his appearance on listicles of players who were picked before Patrick Mahomes. He’s basically the Sam Bowie of the NFL. 

[Dunnie]

Actually Anthony Hitchens (former 4th round pick by the Cowboys in 2014) is currently ahead of Lee on the depth chart at the WLB spot. 
Even if Lee starts, he'll be the 10th or 11th most important player on the defense. 

Like I said ..it's ok to be wrong

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Jet Nut]

Buuuuuttttt, butt, we could have had Mahomes if not for Hack.  I swear we would have drafted him. 

F Hack.  

F Jamal.

F Macc

F them all, I wanted, ugh, want Mahomes.

Does it ever end?  Get over it, hes a Chief

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Not nearly as hard of even the same kind of reaching you have to do to defend your boy Idzik

Who walked into a worse situation: Maccagnan or Idzik? I’ll make this fun and let you do tantric yoga making the case that a cash-strapped reform-school prison roster coached by Jabba the GM-Killer was actually a magic carpet ride.

[Dunnie]

Buuuuuttttt, butt, we could have had Mahomes if not for Hack.  I swear we would have drafted him. 
F Hack.  
F Jamal.
F Macc
F them all, I wanted, ugh, want Mahomes.
Does it ever end?  Get over it, hes a Chief

Ironically ...so is Darron Lee

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Lam Jones caught 13 TDs and lasted for his entire rookie contract.  He was a huge disappointment

And more importantly he was the 2nd pick of the draft.  Not a 2nd round pick.

 

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Who walked into a worse situation: Maccagnan or Idzik? I’ll make this fun and let you do tantric yoga making the case that a cash-strapped reform-school prison roster coached by Jabba the GM-Killer was actually a magic carpet ride.

Similar, both had rosters that were pretty empty.  Idzik did nothing to repair it short or long term.  Macc got one year and then it blew up.  Not much to choose from but I'll take Macc every day over Idzik.

No matter how you try to cloud it

[Hael]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Gholston’s resume was spotless. He was Ohio State’s all-time sack leader, first-team All Big Ten, and PFW All American. Then he went to the Combine and did this: 

Yea, i'll never understand why Gholston wasn't at the very least a passable backup.  His talent and athleticism were out of this world.  You can point to the weight and arm length, but I think it was his inability to learn pass rush moves and proper game instincts (all learnable skills) that just precluded him from ever getting over the hump.  Still, its just one of those draft head scratchers.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

How do you disparage the Sheldon Richardson pick and then give Macc credit for the Leonard Williams pick? They’re basically the same player, except Richardson is a better athlete. And we don’t need to rehash how he ended up with Darnold because it was a combination of consistent sucking and divine intervention. We should give him credit for falling backwards into the third overall pick three years into his stewardship? And Adams’ legacy will be his appearance on listicles of players who were picked before Patrick Mahomes. He’s basically the Sam Bowie of the NFL. 

I don't disparage the Richardson pick. I wish he was still a Jet. Probably did more defense of the guy here than you in real time, but the fact is that he ****ed up off the field, and Leonard's been a choir boy. So no, not the same player. 

I get that some people don't give Mac credit for Darnold, but I do. He made the move to get himself in place to draft Baker Mayfield, then found Darnold drop into his lap. Some luck? Hell yeah! But if he had stayed at #6, trades would've happened ahead of him resulting in Allen or Rosen. 

The worst thing about the Hackenberg pick was that it allowed Mac to draft a safety instead of Mahomes or Watson, but Adams is a good football player. Big mouth, over-drafted -especially by position- but a good player. Better than Dee Milliner by roughly one million percent. 

[dbatesman]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

He made the move to get himself in place to draft Baker Mayfield

No he didn’t. He got himself in place to draft Josh Allen.

[WayneChrebet80]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

Yikes!  Someone should lose their job over that mess. 

And yet if Darnold is the real deal Mike McCagnan becomes the best GM in franchise history. 

[slats]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

No he didn’t. He got himself in place to draft Josh Allen.

Disagree. The expectation was Darnold going #1, the jints taking Barkley, and the Jets not letting Mayfield get past #3. The Browns taking Mayfield #1 potentially threw a wrench in the works, but the jints stuck to their plan and the Jets got Sam. Without the trade, you're looking at Allen in Gotham Green, provided that the Bills wouldn't've taken him ahead of Sam, too. 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

Disagree. The expectation was Darnold going #1, the jints taking Barkley, and the Jets not letting Mayfield get past #3. The Browns taking Mayfield #1 potentially threw a wrench in the works, but the jints stuck to their plan and the Jets got Sam. Without the trade, you're looking at Allen in Gotham Green, provided that the Bills wouldn't've taken him ahead of Sam, too. 

Breer and Cimini both had Heimerdinger working that trade-up. To say Macc “made that trade” is rewriting the history. 

[dbatesman]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

the jints taking Barkley

This was the expectation?

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Now that we're the requisite 3+ seasons since the 2015-16 drafts and entering Year 3 of the 2017 draft class, we can properly evaluate them in hindsight.  Here's how they look:

2015

• 1.6:  DT Leonard Williams:  17.0 career Sacks, 32 TFL's, 85 QB Hits; UFA following 2019 season; lazy and fat   Grade - B
• 2.37:  WR Devin Smith:  10 catches, 135 yards over 2 seasons; signed by DAL to Reserve/Future Contract in 2019  Grade - F
• 3.82:  LB Lorenzo Mauldin:  6.5 career Sacks; out of NFL since September 2018; stiff hips/bad athlete  Grade - F
• 4.103:  QB Bryce Petty:  1-6 record, 57.5 QB Rating; out of NFL since September 2018  Grade - D
• 5.152:  G Jarvis Harrison:  0 games played, Practice Squad in 2015; out of NFL since 2016; lazy and fat  Grade - F
• 7.223:  NT Deon Simon:  1 start, 1.5 career Sacks; signed by GB to Reserve/Future Contract in December 2018  Grade - F

2015 Draft Grade:  F

 

2016

• 1.20:  LB Darron Lee:  4.0 career Sacks, 17 TFLs, 3 INT, 11 PD; traded to KC for 6th round pick in 2019; Tiny   Grade - F
• 2.51:  QB Christian Hackenberg:  0 NFL games played; out of NFL since November 2018; worst draft pick in Jets history  Grade - F
• 3.83:  LB Jordan Jenkins:  12.5 career Sacks, 13 TFLs, 4 FF's, 27 QB Hits  Grade - A
• 4.118:  CB Juston Burris:  2 INT, 7 PD; signed by CLE in November 2018; CB9/CB10 on Browns depth chart  Grade - F
• 5.158:  OT Brandon Shell:  34 games, 29 Starts; JAG RT  Grade - B
• 7.235:  P Lac Edwards:  3 year starter, 44.6 yards/punt, Long 70  Grade - A
• 7.241:  WR/ST Charone Peake:  22 catches, 214 yards, 1 FR, 1 TD  Grade - B

2016 Draft Grade:  D-

 

2017

• 1.6:  S Jamal Adams:  5.5 career Sacks, 1 INT, 4 FF, 18 TFL, 18 PD; Box Safety/Should have been Mahomes/Watson  Grade - B
• 2.39:  S Marcus Maye:  3 career INT's, 4 PD's, 2 FF; another Safety?? / Never healthy  Grade - C
• 3.79:  WR ArDarius Stewart:  6 catches, 82 yards; out of NFL since 2017; abortion of a pick  Grade - F
• 4.141:  WR Chad Hansen:  9 catches, 94 yards; out of NFL since 2017; abortion of a pick  Grade - F
• 5.150:  TE Jordan Leggett:  4 starts, 14 catches, 114 yards, 1 TD; waived in May 2019  Grade - F
• 5.181:  DL Dylan Donohue:  4 games, 0 career sacks, 1 TFL; cut in September 2018; drove wrong way thru Lincoln Tunnel  Grade - F
• 6.188:  RB Elijah McGuire:  180 carries, 591 yards, 19 catches, 370 receiving yards, 6 total TD's  Grade - B
• 6.197:  DB Jeremy Clark:  2 games played; cut in August 2019  Grade - F
• 6.204:  CB Derrick Jones:  4 games played; currently CB5/CB6 on depth chart  Grade - C

2017 Draft Grade:  D

These individual grades are terrible! Did you do these? 2015 petty is a  D while others are f? 2016 Jenkins is an A and them 2017 Adams is a  B because you think we should have drafted a QB? Dude that is same B as you gave mcGuire!! This is crazy town.

Sure Mahomes/Watson would have been nice to have but they were not sure things by any means those teams just hit the lotto like we did with sam and the browns did with Mayfield. They could have easily just been Allen or Rosen.

I'm not trying to hate on you but I just don't understand your thought process here. More of bitter than evaluation. 

But your overall grades I can get behind.

 

 

[T0mShane]

26 minutes ago, Hael said:

Yea, i'll never understand why Gholston wasn't at the very least a passable backup.  His talent and athleticism were out of this world.  You can point to the weight and arm length, but I think it was his inability to learn pass rush moves and proper game instincts (all learnable skills) that just precluded him from ever getting over the hump.  Still, its just one of those draft head scratchers.

He was too nice. Good edge rushers are self-loathing psychopaths like Von Miller and LT. Gholston would get easily blocked in camp and he’d laugh about it while congratulating the scrub OL who clowned him. I remember Damien Woody saying they’d try to bait Gholston into fights in an attempt to toughen him up, but he was too milky.

[BornJetsFan1983]

33 minutes ago, Hael said:

Yea, i'll never understand why Gholston wasn't at the very least a passable backup.  His talent and athleticism were out of this world.  You can point to the weight and arm length, but I think it was his inability to learn pass rush moves and proper game instincts (all learnable skills) that just precluded him from ever getting over the hump.  Still, its just one of those draft head scratchers.

Does that mean coaching?

[Jetsfan80]

The bigger question is does it close your book on Macc Finally

Depends on how Nathan Shepherd and Jachai Polite Shake out

[CanadienJetsFan]

6 hours ago, slats said:

I don't disparage the Richardson pick. I wish he was still a Jet. Probably did more defense of the guy here than you in real time, but the fact is that he ****ed up off the field, and Leonard's been a choir boy. So no, not the same player. 

I get that some people don't give Mac credit for Darnold, but I do. He made the move to get himself in place to draft Baker Mayfield, then found Darnold drop into his lap. Some luck? Hell yeah! But if he had stayed at #6, trades would've happened ahead of him resulting in Allen or Rosen. 

The worst thing about the Hackenberg pick was that it allowed Mac to draft a safety instead of Mahomes or Watson, but Adams is a good football player. Big mouth, over-drafted -especially by position- but a good player. Better than Dee Milliner by roughly one million percent. 

This . Idzik was under qualified to ever be a GM.

Macc ‘ s poor talent evaluation was his downfall. But give him credit, he did get us Darnold. He didn’t sit on his hands. He paid a premium for jumping ahead of other teams who were in dire need of a QB as well. ( somehow I don’t hear anyone complaining about all the picks he gave up)

If the Darnold thing pans out and he does become the franchise QB , we’ll all have pictures of Macc on our walls.

 

[GREENBEAN]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Gholston’s resume was spotless. He was Ohio State’s all-time sack leader, first-team All Big Ten, and PFW All American. Then he went to the Combine and did this: 

Ahhh well done. The all important purpose of words.  I suppose the phrasing should have been biggest "bust" in Jets history.  It's a pretty good highlighter for how bad a 6th overall pick can go. No? 

Having top 10 picks isn't always so easy to nail it seems. Thanks for the distinction. 

[GREENBEAN]

8 hours ago, slats said:

Disagree. The expectation was Darnold going #1, the jints taking Barkley, and the Jets not letting Mayfield get past #3. The Browns taking Mayfield #1 potentially threw a wrench in the works, but the jints stuck to their plan and the Jets got Sam. Without the trade, you're looking at Allen in Gotham Green, provided that the Bills wouldn't've taken him ahead of Sam, too. 

Correct.  And, while I think he will have a decent career overall, Darnold over Allen is one of the main reasons I think we win our opening day game against them.  Allen has all the tools, but he is not good enough to make his subpar WR crew look better than they are yet. The way Sam did in the last 4 games last season.  Beasley is a good player but the overall group is going to struggle with Allen at the helm IMO. Especially if Morse can't stay healthy. 

 

[Grandy]

I thank God everyday that we got Darnold. However I thought it was universally known that Heimerdinger swung the deal for #3, and not Macc.