Rookie Observations....

[NYJ1]

1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

i dunno, i think this draft can result in at least 3-4 solid long term starters/key players.

That could be the case, but I'm talking about right now - this season. All of Mac's draft choices except for Jamal Adams and maybe Marcus Mays for a short time, do almost nothing in their rookie seasons. That's always been my biggest criticism of his drafts. They just don't contribute much, if anything at all, their rookie season. Darron Lee as a prime example. This kid was absolutely lost on the field, a 100% liability for the defense overall.

Even beyond that, Jordan Jenkins as an example. Jenkins has developed into a decent player for the Jets, but in his rookie season he was horrid.

Whatever happened to selecting players that immediately started contributing? Jon Vilma, D'Brick, Nick Mangold, David Harris, Darrelle Revis, Dustin Keller, etc. All of those players started doing good things and actually made the team BETTER in their rookie seasons.

I want to see Quinnen Williams at the very least start making a few big plays his rookie season. If I see that, that'll be completely different to all of Mac's prior drafts.

[Matt39]

38 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Quinnen is a rookie without the vets playing alongside him. Dline definitely has a domino affect when all the starters are playing. No Leo, no McLendon, and I'm sorry but I believe Shepard is a STIFF! 

Was excited to watch Quinnen. He looked like he had the crab last night. A little more juice young man. 

[jack48]

5 hours ago, Copernicus said:

I may have missed it listening to all the Giant talk on the broadcast but what did Wesco do that makes you concerned? 

had a penalty?  heaven forbid!

[peekskill68]

9 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

biggest disappointments were K, cb and rb.  i expect cannon and mcguire to both get cut.  they can find another scrub rb who is better than these guys.  and hopefully douglass can find someone who can play cb.  they just need average right now.

Agree on McGuire unless Powell simply can't play.  Cannon is pretty valuable as a ST player especially in a field position game...

[JohnnyLV]

33 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Agree on McGuire unless Powell simply can't play.  Cannon is pretty valuable as a ST player especially in a field position game...

I was REALLY impressed by Dortch. He looked super solid on PR, it just seems so natural to him. PR as a position is really undervalued. He touches the ball 5 or 6 times a game and can be pivotal to a win. Would think he is close to wrapping up a spot on that alone.

But he does seem like he can contribute as depth receiver too. Yeah he fumbled, but that was a huge hit.

Edoga looked really good. Great feet good leverage, showed competitiveness. His issue was personal interaction, maybe being with Sam helps that be a non-issue.

Not a rookie but second year UDFA Luvu looks like a true football player. When in against the 2s and 3s he looked like a first stringer playing against 2s and 3s which is what you want to see.

Cashman flashed quite a bit. I will not be shocked to see Avery Williamson traded, maybe for a CB

 

 

 

[RobR]

4 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

What? I watched the Bills and Dolphins games. Oliver was muffed on about 2 snaps and then he took it to Nelson. He got off a double team and had a tackle for loss then forced Nelson back into Brissett causing an in-completion. I'm not looking forward to him going up against our o-line with the rest of that Bills defense.

He should have been the pick over Quinnen. We'll be regretting that decision for the next decade, especially with him in our division.

[Savage69]

6 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Brian Burns. That’s my guy. Thought he was the top edge rusher in this class and wanted him regardless of who was there at 3. Should be fun watching these guys develop. 

Q should be good though. It’s one preseason game. His college tape is really good. 

No it's 11 snaps in his first preseason game.. I don't have the vision many of you do, I need at least a season to judge what a player may be.. Parcells said it takes 2-3 years but what did he know compared to some Jet Nation posters?

[flgreen]

34 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I was REALLY impressed by Dortch. He looked super solid on PR, it just seems so natural to him. PR as a position is really undervalued. He touches the ball 5 or 6 times a game and can be pivotal to a win. Would think he is close to wrapping up a spot on that alone.

But he does seem like he can contribute as depth receiver too. Yeah he fumbled, but that was a huge hit.

Edoga looked really good. Great feet good leverage, showed competitiveness. His issue was personal interaction, maybe being with Sam helps that be a non-issue.

Not a rookie but second year UDFA Luvu looks like a true football player. When in against the 2s and 3s he looked like a first stringer playing against 2s and 3s which is what you want to see.

Cashman flashed quite a bit. I will not be shocked to see Avery Williamson traded, maybe for a CB

 

 

 

Agree with most everything you said, but it wouldn't be smart to trade Williamson.  Cashman has blown up both shoulders.  Might be wise to see how that plays out.

[TNJet]

Quinnen flashed his speed and ability to fight of blocks to make tackles. I also was impressed with Cashman, kid was all around the ball seems like a 10 tackle a game LB if starting. Edoga didn't look out of place so thats good. The rest? Meh.

[BCJet]

46 minutes ago, RobR said:

He should have been the pick over Quinnen. We'll be regretting that decision for the next decade, especially with him in our division.

You honestly think Ed Oliver should have been the pick over Williams?  

[RobR]

12 minutes ago, BCJet said:

You honestly think Ed Oliver should have been the pick over Williams?  

I probably have 50+ posts on here explaining why. I didn't watch the Bills game yet but I heard he was impressive going against what many consider the best guard in the game. Williams played how I thought he would.....very Leo-esque.

[14 in Green]

On 8/9/2019 at 8:24 PM, BCJet said:

You honestly think Ed Oliver should have been the pick over Williams?  

I do. Oliver is a monster.

i know @RobR probably disagrees but I think Josh Allen should’ve been the second choice over Q, and I like Q. He’s just does not fill the needs we have on D. In fact he is a Leo clone.

As for the rest of the rookies, Wesco was so overrated on this board it crazy. He’s a blocking TE, they’re a dime a dozen. Polite is a guy I was banging my table for on draft night, but let’s be real. The kid is barely able to compete with second stringers so far. The Dortch love here is over the top for a guy who might make a contribution on specials. Cashman looks like a player, but at a position where we are already solid. Austin...lol. Edoga is the only guy who looks like a solid pick at a position of need.

im really not happy with what I saw last night at all, except for Gase seeing the matchup of Crowder against Julian Love, the rookie 4th round pick the Giants are trying to groom into a slot defender. Darnold and Crowder took advantage of him, to their credit. Aside from that the Jets looked terrible.

And please somebody tell Gase to knock off the smelling salt crap. He looks like a clown.

 

[Hael]

15 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I do also. Oliver is a monster.

i know @RobR probably disagrees but I think Josh Allen should’ve been the second choice over Q, and I like Q. He’s just does not fill the needs we have on D. In fact he is a Leo clone.

As for the rest of the rookies, Wesco was so overrated on this board it crazy. He’s a blocking TE, they’re a dime a dozen. Polite is a guy I was banging my table for on draft night, but let’s be real. The kid is barely able to compete with second stringers so far. The Dortch love here is over the top for a guy who might make a contribution on specials. Cashman looks like a player, but at a position where we are already solid. Austin...lol. Edoga is the only guy who looks like a solid pick at a position of need.

im really not happy with what I saw last night at all, except for Gase seeing the matchup of Crowder against Julian Love, the rookie 4th round pick the Giants are trying to groom into a slot defender. Darnold and Crowder took advantage of him, to their credit. Aside from that the Jets looked terrible.

And please somebody tell Gase to knock off the smelling salt crap. He looks like a clown.

 

I'm definitely ok with the Q pick.  If Leo walks, its hard to find athletes that are that size and every team needs them.  I'm less k with the Polite pick (especially since the guy I wanted Winovich, was completely dominate yesterday and had 1.5 sacks). 

There is a tendency in draft circles to pick guys with higher ceilings in the 3rd (projects) and ignore the potentially starting caliber but maybe less athletically gifted players like Winovich.  I mean 3rd rounds picks shouldn't have to be that big of a gamble.

Anyway I digress.  The problem with Polite is that he is one of those players that might never see any playing time, and so he might never develop into what he could become.

[Lith]

20 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

The Dortch love here is over the top for a guy who might make a contribution on specials.

Yup.  He also put the ball on the ground -- didn't lose it thanks (I think) to Edoga.  Not going to say he has a fumbling issue, but something that bears watching through the preseason.  I am just not ready to crown him as a great UDFA find yet.

[BCJet]

50 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I do also. Oliver is a monster.

i know @RobR probably disagrees but I think Josh Allen should’ve been the second choice over Q, and I like Q. He’s just does not fill the needs we have on D. In fact he is a Leo clone.

As for the rest of the rookies, Wesco was so overrated on this board it crazy. He’s a blocking TE, they’re a dime a dozen. Polite is a guy I was banging my table for on draft night, but let’s be real. The kid is barely able to compete with second stringers so far. The Dortch love here is over the top for a guy who might make a contribution on specials. Cashman looks like a player, but at a position where we are already solid. Austin...lol. Edoga is the only guy who looks like a solid pick at a position of need.

im really not happy with what I saw last night at all, except for Gase seeing the matchup of Crowder against Julian Love, the rookie 4th round pick the Giants are trying to groom into a slot defender. Darnold and Crowder took advantage of him, to their credit. Aside from that the Jets looked terrible.

And please somebody tell Gase to knock off the smelling salt crap. He looks like a clown.

 

Fair opinion.  Are you a big draft guy or not - just curious because I didnt want to take another interior lineman but after watching numerous draft breakdowns, Q has a skill set that is almost impossible to replicate.

I think Oliver could be a great 4-3 DT who penetrates, but  he can't be expected to fight off blocks and stop the run.  I think Q has a ridiculously complete game for someone so young.

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Fair opinion.  Are you a big draft guy or not - just curious because I didnt want to take another interior lineman but after watching numerous draft breakdowns, Q has a skill set that is almost impossible to replicate.

I think Oliver could be a great 4-3 DT who penetrates, but  he can't be expected to fight off blocks and stop the run.  I think Q has a ridiculously complete game for someone so young.

I’m far from a draft guy, but this board is pretty educational as far as guys who are, and give their opinions on kids for months before the draft. I do watch a lot of college football also, so this year and last I really think I had a pretty good feel for what was going on.

Q could turn out to be a great player, but I don’t think his was a position of need on defense. I totally get the bpa thing, but we had glaring needs such as CB and a pass rusher. Of cours at OL also, but I understood not taking the LT from Bama that high.

Hopefully Q turns out to be a great pick, but if I had to guess, I’d put my money ion Oliver being the one to make a bigger impact.

[thshadow]

3 hours ago, Lith said:

Yup.  He also put the ball on the ground -- didn't lose it thanks (I think) to Edoga.  Not going to say he has a fumbling issue, but something that bears watching through the preseason.  I am just not ready to crown him as a great UDFA find yet.

Hopefully it's not a recurring thing, but at least it came from a solid blindside punch, as opposed to Cannon not even being able to catch a punt.  IOW I think it's just something he has to learn, as opposed to having terrible or weak hands.

I'm happy with Dortch just because it seems very likely IMO that he'll at least be a good punt returner.  Finding an above average NFL punt returner as an UDFA, who potentially has or will develop value as a receiver, is a good find.  At least his play in the game backed up what we were hearing about in practice...

[thshadow]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

I’m far from a draft guy, but this board is pretty educational as far as guys who are, and give their opinions on kids for months before the draft. I do watch a lot of college football also, so this year and last I really think I had a pretty good feel for what was going on.

Q could turn out to be a great player, but I don’t think his was a position of need on defense. I totally get the bpa thing, but we had glaring needs such as CB and a pass rusher. Of cours at OL also, but I understood not taking the LT from Bama that high.

Hopefully Q turns out to be a great pick, but if I had to guess, I’d put my money ion Oliver being the one to make a bigger impact.

I think the worst thing was that we couldn't / didn't trade down.  That was the thing that pissed me off.  I wouldn't even care if it was below draft value chart.  Q was a very reasonable pick at 3 - but we should have been letting some other team make that pick....

[BurnleyJet]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I was REALLY impressed by Dortch. He looked super solid on PR, it just seems so natural to him. PR as a position is really undervalued. He touches the ball 5 or 6 times a game and can be pivotal to a win. Would think he is close to wrapping up a spot on that alone.

But he does seem like he can contribute as depth receiver too. Yeah he fumbled, but that was a huge hit.

Edoga looked really good. Great feet good leverage, showed competitiveness. His issue was personal interaction, maybe being with Sam helps that be a non-issue.

Not a rookie but second year UDFA Luvu looks like a true football player. When in against the 2s and 3s he looked like a first stringer playing against 2s and 3s which is what you want to see.

Cashman flashed quite a bit. I will not be shocked to see Avery Williamson traded, maybe for a CB

 

 

 

I said this last week, Avery will be on the block.

[Jet Nut]

14 hours ago, Savage69 said:

No it's 11 snaps in his first preseason game.. I don't have the vision many of you do, I need at least a season to judge what a player may be.. Parcells said it takes 2-3 years but what did he know compared to some Jet Nation posters?

Parcells said lots of things.  Mostly to light a fire under players asses.  To keep them from feeling good and comfortable about themselves. 

If he believes it takes 2-3 years, he's wrong.

 

[NYJ1]

11 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I'll not be shocked to see Avery Williamson traded, maybe for a CB

 

 

 

I will believe this only when I see it. Avery Williamson was a very good player for the team last season and just cashed in on a major FA contract last season. I think the thought of this is ridiculous.

[Augustiniak]

Q was in for what, 2 series, and drew a holding penalty.  

[k-met57]

Q was in for what, 2 series, and drew a holding penalty.  

From what I remember more than that.

[k-met57]

Fair opinion.  Are you a big draft guy or not - just curious because I didnt want to take another interior lineman but after watching numerous draft breakdowns, Q has a skill set that is almost impossible to replicate.
I think Oliver could be a great 4-3 DT who penetrates, but  he can't be expected to fight off blocks and stop the run.  I think Q has a ridiculously complete game for someone so young.

This. I loved Oliver, but his physical limitations reduced his scheme versatility whereas Q was a walking highlight film at Bama. Oliver will be awesome though.

[kdels62]

8 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

 

This. I loved Oliver, but his physical limitations reduced his scheme versatility whereas Q was a walking highlight film at Bama. Oliver will be awesome though.

 

What physical limitations? At 20 lbs lighter he’s just as strong as Quinnen while being much more agile.

[RobR]

On 8/9/2019 at 6:59 PM, 14 in Green said:

i know @RobR probably disagrees but I think Josh Allen should’ve been the second choice over Q, and I like Q. He’s just does not fill the needs we have on D. In fact he is a Leo clone.

Finally had a chance to watch the game again and these are my impressions.

Sorry @14 in Green I did not mean to quote your post but I've been having some problems with JN lately with responses.

Edoga needs to get starting reps. He's legit and totally dominated. He looks more comfortable at LT than RT

Cashman displayed some nice skills with his ability to change direction and play recognition. He was a half step slow but I think he'll get there because he looks athletic as hell.

QW was a disappointment. He looked just like Leo, slow off of the snap and more of an occupier of blockers. Kid needs to get off of the ball faster and hustle. 

Polite was a mixed bag. He looked better after I rewatched the game but he has a long way to go. Most of his reps were against 3rd stringers and he desperately needs too add strength. Can't picture him making any impact this year.

I thought Dortch looked great. He had a fumble that was a great play by the defensive guy. He alleviated my concerns as a PR because he fielded every punt like he was a natural. He'll be our UDFA steal.

McGuire needs to be cut now......he's awful. 

Shepard and Foley looked impressive as interior lineman. Both got push, good getoffs and drew double teams.

 

[Obrien2Toon]

So that’s 4-5 guys blocking Q and Leo, other guys are going to have huge years

?

[pdxgreen]

On 8/9/2019 at 6:22 PM, Lith said:

Yup.  He also put the ball on the ground -- didn't lose it thanks (I think) to Edoga.  Not going to say he has a fumbling issue, but something that bears watching through the preseason.  I am just not ready to crown him as a great UDFA find yet.

Only thing that worried about me is that he doesn't have a ton of acceleration.  Tends to slow down a bit when he catches... even though he can make guys miss ATC.  But he got absolutely crushed on one play.  My guess is he'll go over the middle and some safety or LB with ridiculous closing speed will knock the ball out.

[kdels62]

33 minutes ago, RobR said:

Finally had a chance to watch the game again and these are my impressions.

Sorry @14 in Green I did not mean to quote your post but I've been having some problems with JN lately with responses.

Edoga needs to get starting reps. He's legit and totally dominated. He looks more comfortable at LT than RT

Cashman displayed some nice skills with his ability to change direction and play recognition. He was a half step slow but I think he'll get there because he looks athletic as hell.

QW was a disappointment. He looked just like Leo, slow off of the snap and more of an occupier of blockers. Kid needs to get off of the ball faster and hustle. 

Polite was a mixed bag. He looked better after I rewatched the game but he has a long way to go. Most of his reps were against 3rd stringers and he desperately needs too add strength. Can't picture him making any impact this year.

I thought Dortch looked great. He had a fumble that was a great play by the defensive guy. He alleviated my concerns as a PR because he fielded every punt like he was a natural. He'll be our UDFA steal.

McGuire needs to be cut now......he's awful. 

Shepard and Foley looked impressive as interior lineman. Both got push, good getoffs and drew double teams.

 

I came away with basically these same observations. Edoga was really good, it all looked natural to him. 

I agree on the McGuire point. He has no vision, when he gets space he can do something but he spends a lot of time running into his own lineman.

[RobR]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

I came away with basically these same observations. Edoga was really good, it all looked natural to him. 

For a guy that is considered short he has tremendous length not only in his arms but his legs. His base and foot speed made it look easy out there for him. 

[RobR]

42 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

So that’s 4-5 guys blocking Q and Leo, other guys are going to have huge years

?

There is nothing better than drafting interior DLineman 6th and 3rd overall too occupy blockers. It's a recipe for success that the rest of the league should follow.

[Gastineau Lives]

On 8/9/2019 at 7:42 AM, Joe W. Namath said:

The old “he got double teamed”, a classic jet fan excuse.

Q did not play enough to really evaluate him.  Lets give him another game or 2 before we start slapping leonanard williams excuses on him.

Hi! I'm in the "If I'm saying something negative I'm saying something smart" club. And I'm the president.

Like @T0mShane without the adorable Leaving Las Vegas tortured hopeless genius vibe.

[DetroitRed]

It sure is the preseason


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jetscrazey]

I don't see Avery Williamson getting traded, he's too valuable to the front 7.  He led the team in tackles last year.  If they're gonna trade for a CB, I'd look at a player like Nathan Shephard, Eli McGuire, or Trenton Cannon getting packaged with a pick.

[14 in Green]

28 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

I don't see Avery Williamson getting traded, he's too valuable to the front 7.  He led the team in tackles last year.  If they're gonna trade for a CB, I'd look at a player like Nathan Shephard, Eli McGuire, or Trenton Cannon getting packaged with a pick.

If you’re looking to package one of those 3, you have to be willing to include a high draft pick, right? Because nobody wants our garbage.