Anyone Else Not Care about the Corners?

[Jetsfan80]

It's almost as if investing heavy draft capital and cap dollars on ILB's, Box Safeties, and DT's who can't rush the passer are a misuse of resources.  Weird.  

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I feel like the teams that do what you’re saying, more often do it with pass rush. Rules basically neuter CBs. I’m not speaking in absolutes, there are examples of corners that can ball, but they are few. Front-7 that can take over a game is more realistic.

definitely but both positions really compliment each other so when you don’t have either, it’s trouble. let’s say Jachai Polite comes on strong and start pressuring the passer consistently, how much better does that make our pass defense? It’ll help us out, no doubt,  but I think you still need average corners on the back end to cover long enough so that pass rush has a chance to get there. I do believe Pass Rush is slightly more important because it directly affects the passer of the football but since they go hand in hand, decent corners definitely matter to some extent.

[slats]

55 minutes ago, jmat321 said:

It's been a decade of Defense, Defense, Defense in JetLand.  Done with it.  The team isn't winning the Super Bowl this year. Really do not see the point of wasting draft capital or decent players under contract for 3rd tier dbs.  I'd rather see the team go long with Offense for once.  We finish 6-10, but our young QB improves, I'm fine with it.  Rather that than limp to 8-8 while giving up mid round picks for a guy who won't be on the team in 2 years.  

CB was the biggest hole on the team before Tru injured his hamstring. I was concerned about the position during the last draft when Mac spent his usual 6th round pick on his usual project. I'm not crazy about trading future draft capitol for CB help this year, but if they could trade a player who likely isn't going to be here next year for one, sure, I'm down with that. 

[14 in Green]

We’re all panicking a bit because of Johnson’s hamstring. He’s going to be back in a few weeks, so let’s calm down. The plan was always to have two jags along side of him. Nobody liked it, or thought that would be a strength, but we hoped to get by with it.

No team is stacked everywhere, and the way teams make big improvements lately is when they get the right young QB, when you do, he takes control in his second year. You’ve seen it happen numerous times recently.

Bottom line, if you think Sam is a going to become a top  NFL QB this year, you think the Jets will be playing for something in December. If you don’t think he will, you don’t think we will.

[JohnnyLV]

36 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

The problem is, we dont have a pass rush either. 

People always say this but it is not true. I did a long post that showed that in the first place the Jets pash rush was slighlty above average in both sacks and pressures, and that having a great pass rush had almost no correlation to making the playoffs or winning in the playoffs.

Williams is intentionally putting the corners in bad situations to see what they are capable of. He is not going to be all out blitzing in zero coverage, and playing strict man to man coverage schemes with this team. My guess is we will play a bot of a bend dont break defense, with a lot of zone and try to play well in the red zone. NE does this, and it works well for them.

The key is offense, not more corners. If the Jets can get leads in games, it changes the dynamics of the opposing offense and makes it easier to defend. This has to be our strategy this year.

The Jets many of you know, with tight man to man coverage, and a defensive focused team is dead. The entire paradigm of this time is different. We will approach, and win, games differently than before. Don't hold your breath on having elite corners or a huge pass rush as much of the focus will be and will continue to be on offense, OL, TE and playmakers.

I for one am extremely happy for the shift.

[ljr]

“Not care” is too strong ... but

I’m cool with working the after preseason week 3 cuts and/or a young CB with upside for late round pick (JD’s decision) for hopeful CB 2,3,4,5 prospects

Whether he comes back week 1,3,5 i’m good with Tru as 2019 CB 1




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[SR24]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think this team is capable of competing for the wildcard this year. A trade for CB is almost a necessity at this point imo, doesn't have to be for a stud but we need to add a capable starter to this team. If we can win while Sams on a rookie deal we've got to do whatever we can to make it happen. We can all sit and laugh at Dak's request for 40 mil but if Sam produces here on his rookie deal he's going to get paid like a king. Make the winning moves now

[whodeawhodat]

yeah, not happy about our CB situation.  Opponents WRs are going to be so happy going against who we currently put out there.  We are going to get picked off on the outside and when G.Williams tries to compensate, our middle linebackers cant cover that much space....  I don't think we will get run up the gut this year but everything else is fair game imo.  Praying that G.Williams can make chicken salad this year.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m worried. 

It’s 2019 and more of a passing league than ever before. Cornerback is a premium position and you will absolutely get gashed trying to play rookie UDFA’s at #1 and #2. We at least need more experience and in turn maybe some reliability back there because right now we have none. Kyron and Arthur have never even played a significant snap in this league yet. I’m absolutely worried. I’m not saying trade a premium pick but Darryl Roberts is our best corner right now. That’s sickening.

they need corners with enough ability.  the patsies seem to be able to get by with one step above scrubs corner and even their safeties aren't top tier but they do play plenty good as a team.  that's the one thing the jets haven't been able to do.  adams and maye will be able to cover up for the corners a bit.  williams probably has some schemes to keep the receivers from getting open.

[rangerous]

16 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

People always say this but it is not true. I did a long post that showed that in the first place the Jets pash rush was slighlty above average in both sacks and pressures, and that having a great pass rush had almost no correlation to making the playoffs or winning in the playoffs.

Williams is intentionally putting the corners in bad situations to see what they are capable of. He is not going to be all out blitzing in zero coverage, and playing strict man to man coverage schemes with this team. My guess is we will play a bot of a bend dont break defense, with a lot of zone and try to play well in the red zone. NE does this, and it works well for them.

The key is offense, not more corners. If the Jets can get leads in games, it changes the dynamics of the opposing offense and makes it easier to defend. This has to be our strategy this year.

The Jets many of you know, with tight man to man coverage, and a defensive focused team is dead. The entire paradigm of this time is different. We will approach, and win, games differently than before. Don't hold your breath on having elite corners or a huge pass rush as much of the focus will be and will continue to be on offense, OL, TE and playmakers.

I for one am extremely happy for the shift.

true enough about the need to score points.  getting leads limits what plays the other team can run.  that's a good thing.  the bad thing is when teams are behind they pass a lot more so the jets will need a rush to cover for their corner play, assuming it stays inadequate.

[Apache 51]

59 minutes ago, Rsherman28 said:

I know its preseason but it was nice to see the offense of the first drive go down and score a touchdown. I can't even remember how many times we did that last year, lol maybe twice

That was to get people to watch, 

[bitonti]

while it's true this league is all about offense, the offense is no great shakes either. Their best TE let the team down due to stupidity. Q and Ty are already hurt. Powell is about a billion years old. Robbie, Crowder and Bell are the guys you have to stop... and that's good to have 3 guys (last year they had maybe 2) but the best teams have like 5, 6 weapons. I.e. Philly has Ertz AND dallas Goedert. Cleveland has Landry and Beckham. 

Not to mention the QB is 22 and still throws picks like crazy. 

The Jets will shoot their way to 6 or 7 wins but this playoff talk is bananas and it's because of the defense mostly (not having a Place kicker is also a serious disadvantage). They are the fantasy defense you want to stream players against this year 

like if your QB gets hurt, pick up the guy who's going against the Jets, he's going to shred the league's worst cornerbacks 

Also, in case anyone thinks otherwise, Marcus Cooper Sr sux cox n dix that's the official "hot tub time machine" terminology for his level of play over the last 2 years 

[Pac]

This is a playoff roster.  Gase and Douglas believe it too which is why they gave 9 million to a center to help Sam.

Sounds like a lot of you are in for a pleasant surprise.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Pac said:

This is a playoff roster.  Gase and Douglas believe it too which is why they gave 9 million to a center to help Sam.

Pretty sure they just want to increase the chances he stays upright and gets decent snaps out of the shotgun.    

[Philc1]

We suck at corner

[JustInFudge]

35 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

People always say this but it is not true. I did a long post that showed that in the first place the Jets pash rush was slighlty above average in both sacks and pressures, and that having a great pass rush had almost no correlation to making the playoffs or winning in the playoffs.

Williams is intentionally putting the corners in bad situations to see what they are capable of. He is not going to be all out blitzing in zero coverage, and playing strict man to man coverage schemes with this team. My guess is we will play a bot of a bend dont break defense, with a lot of zone and try to play well in the red zone. NE does this, and it works well for them.

The key is offense, not more corners. If the Jets can get leads in games, it changes the dynamics of the opposing offense and makes it easier to defend. This has to be our strategy this year.

The Jets many of you know, with tight man to man coverage, and a defensive focused team is dead. The entire paradigm of this time is different. We will approach, and win, games differently than before. Don't hold your breath on having elite corners or a huge pass rush as much of the focus will be and will continue to be on offense, OL, TE and playmakers.

I for one am extremely happy for the shift.

I recall that post but I'm not seeing the correlation in this situation.  I'm not talking playoffs, more so, getting off the field and preventing TD's.  Sacks and pressures can be generated from any position and often from blitzing, leaving corners exposed and gaps in the D.  A better situation is generating pressure with your front 4 and the Jets really dont have a single player that an opposing team is worried on every snap, hence having to send extras leaving the D vulnerable to guys like Brady who eats blitzes for breakfast along with his HGH cereal.  This situation heightens the urgency to have strong CB's who can either cover longer and in our situation, play 0 coverage on an island while we have to send extras to get to the QB.

Why I'm not concerned is because what you mentioned, the focus should be on offense because even the best corners get beat.  Relying on winning on D is stupid and doesnt work.  So as long as we can score, I could really give 2 sh*ts about who's playing CB.  I personally think pressure is more important because pressure can hide bad corner play and pressure forces quicker decisions.  Jalen Ramsey cant cover for 4-5 seconds.  Nobody can. 

That said, **** defense.  Just score more points. 

 

[SR24]

Would love to see Joe D swing a trade for Darius Slay. Big cap hit but he's a great talent wouldn't go any higher than a 3rd though

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

I recall that post but I'm not seeing the correlation in this situation.  I'm not talking playoffs, more so, getting off the field and preventing TD's.  Sacks and pressures can be generated from any position and often from blitzing, leaving corners exposes and gaps in the D.  A better situation is generating pressure with your front 4 and the Jets really dont have a single player that an opposing team is worried on every snap, hence having to send extras leaving the D vulnerable to guys like Brady who eats blitzes for breakfast along with his HGF cereal.  This situation heightens the urgency to have strong CB's who can either cover longer and in our situation, play 0 coverage on an island while we have to send extras to get to the QB.

Why I'm not concerned is because what you mentioned, the focus should be on offense because even the best corners get beat.  Relying on winning on D is stupid and doesnt work.  So as long as we can score, I could really give 2 sh*ts about who's playing CB.  I personally think pressure is more important because pressure can hide bad corner play and pressure forces quicker decisions.  Jalen Ramsey cant cover for 4-5 seconds.  Nobody can. 

That said, **** defense.  Just score more points. 

 

it would be worse if the jets took a cb in the first round and invested heavily in FA on another, and w/o a good pass rush they were still giving up big plays and getting flagged, b/c that's what's been happening to many teams anyway.  you just need cbs who turn their head and understand how not to get burned deep too much.

[genot]

1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I don't care if we finish 5-11 for the next ten years as long as Sam keeps improving. Can you imagine how bestest he's gonna be then??? 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

This is a playoff roster.  Gase and Douglas believe it too which is why they gave 9 million to a center to help Sam.

Sounds like a lot of you are in for a pleasant surprise.

or maybe they gave Kalil that money to prevent Darnold from getting murdered. Last year HOU lined up Clowney at the 0 tech standing up all game just to run a train on Harrison 

side note Ryan Kalil is on a one year deal and brought their free cap space down from like 23 mil to 14. Still a ton of open cap space (enough to pay for Jason Myers for example) and because it's a one year deal, still have tons of long term money free. 

Kalil is also about a million years old and retired last year with chronic neck pain. Want to bet on him making it through the season? 

finally, PAC, I hope this team pleasantly surprises me - this year, and every year since my brain soured during the Idzik era

What we say or feel about this team has zero impact on winning. We can get people fired though.  

[Pac]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Pretty sure they just want to increase the chances he stays upright and gets decent snaps out of the shotgun.    

The center who was playing for the 4 game stretch when Darnold was number 1 qb for a month could have handled that.  They needed someone more knowledgeable with line calls.

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, SR24 said:

Would love to see Joe D swing a trade for Darius Slay. Big cap hit but he's a great talent 

Love him as a talent but isn’t he often injured?

[Philc1]

Our pass defense is going to be bottom 5 this season 

[SR24]

We also didn't really do much to address our pass rush needs (Polite is a 3rd round pick we need to be realistic with his expectations here) you can't win games with a non existent pass rush and backup quality corners in your starting lineup. One has to be upgraded so yes we should definitely be worried lol 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Pac said:

The center who was playing for the 4 game stretch when Darnold was number 1 qb for a month could have handled that.  They needed someone more knowledgeable with line calls.

Sure he could have.  That's why they brought in a retired guy to replace him. 

Wayne Hunter once looked good for a short stretch.  It ended up being a big mistake relying on him for a full season.  

They took a look at Harrison in camp and determined he wasn't good enough.  I don't think that's a statement on the Jets' playoff chances this season.  

[Pac]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

or maybe they gave Kalil that money to prevent Darnold from getting murdered. Last year HOU lined up Clowney at the 0 tech standing up all game just to run a train on Harrison 

side note Ryan Kalil is on a one year deal and brought their free cap space down from like 23 mil to 14. Still a ton of open cap space (enough to pay for Jason Myers for example) and because it's a one year deal, still have tons of long term money free. 

Kalil is also about a million years old and retired last year with chronic neck pain. Want to bet on him making it through the season? 

finally, PAC, I hope this team pleasantly surprises me - this year, and every year since my brain soured during the Idzik era

What we say or feel about this team has zero impact on winning. We can get people fired though.  

I think they brought kalil in for his experience and knowledge more than any physical upgrade over harrison.

I think people are simply underestimating what this o and d will do with real coaching and dynamic additions like bell and crowder.  

It's going to be fun.

[SR24]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Love him as a talent but isn’t he often injured?

13 games in 2016, 16 games in 2017 and played 15 in 2018. I'd still pull the trigger. I think Trumaine is Cromartie reborn. He's a CB who's not really a #1 but had a good enough season to get paid like one. I think he flourishes as a #2 with a true #1 opposite him

[RutgersJetFan]

but we have jamal adams 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, SR24 said:

13 games in 2016, 16 games in 2017 and played 15 in 2018. I'd still pull the trigger. I think Trumaine is Cromartie reborn. He's a CB who's not really a #1 but had a good enough season to get paid like one. I think he flourishes as a #2 with a true #1 opposite him

Good enough for me.

probably would take a premium pick to get him though, no?

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, Pac said:

I think they brought kalil in for his experience and knowledge more than any physical upgrade over harrison.

I think people are simply underestimating what this o and d will do with real coaching and dynamic additions like bell and crowder.  

It's going to be fun.

i think the coaching changes will be huge.  the jets lost several 4th quarter leads last year, including 2 in dec to hou and gb.  

[Jet Nut]

Guess the countless posts, threads complaints didnt give it away

[SR24]

4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Good enough for me.

probably would take a premium pick to get him though, no?

Honestly not 100% sure about the compensation he's 28yrs old with 2 years left on his deal, brings a 16mil cap hit this year and a 13.5 hit next year although he'll likely hold out after this year. I think i'd offer a 4th that could turn into a 3rd if he hits certain goals. 

[14 in Green]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure he could have.  That's why they brought in a retired guy to replace him.  

They took a look at Harrison in camp and determined he wasn't good enough.  I don't think that's a statement on the Jets' playoff chances this season.  

I’m curious 80... if I’m not mistaken, you live in the Carolinas like me, and you’ve seen him play the last few years. What do you think we’re going to get out of Khalil this season?

Im not expecting much, in fact I don’t expect him to make it through the year. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if he tells the Jets he’s finished before the season starts. I think he came back because we blew him away with our offer. A part of him isn’t sure he’s completely finished, so he decided to give it a try.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I’m curious 80... if I’m not mistaken, you live in the Carolinas like me, and you’ve seen him play the last few years. What do you think we’re going to get out of Khalil this season?

I do but I don't really watch Panthers games.  I honestly have no clue what level of play we'll get out of him.  Best guess is average or so Center play, which is still a major upgrade over anything we've had at the position since Mangold retired.  

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m worried. 

It’s 2019 and more of a passing league than ever before. Cornerback is a premium position and you will absolutely get gashed trying to play rookie UDFA’s at #1 and #2. We at least need more experience and in turn maybe some reliability back there because right now we have none. Kyron and Arthur have never even played a significant snap in this league yet. I’m absolutely worried. I’m not saying trade a premium pick but Darryl Roberts is our best corner right now. That’s sickening.

Arthur Maulet?  He isn't super experienced, but he played about 100 defensive snaps for the Colts last year.  They made the playoffs at 10-6, but cut him mid-season.

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

If Tru comes back for week 1 and we trade maybe a 5th for Cravens from Philly, I’d feel so much better with 

Tru/Cravens/D.Roberts/Poole/Nickerson

 

even though that isn’t some star studded secondary, if healthy, they could at least be average.

I agree with the principle, but who is Cravens?  The only Cravens I know of is Sua Cravens the safety Washington drafted in the 2nd that missed a year and abandoned the team and ended up in Denver.  I assume you mean Cre'von LeBlanc.  That is the type of guy we have been overrating for years.  He was cut mid-season and the Eagles are probably going to dump him.  He is also dealing with a Lis Franc issue.  I wouldn't kill the move since he was in Chicago and Philly, so these guys are presumably familiar with him, but I don't think is ahead of Roberts or Poole on anybody's depth chart and I don't particularly like Poole.