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14 in Green

The Polite Question. What’s the answer?

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4 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

You dont cut a guy you invested a 3rd round pick on after 1 training camp.  You guys on this board cant be that clueless.

He needs to be worked with on the field, in the weight room, his diet, his technique etc.  

A 3rd round pick is an investment.  Hes not going anywhere even if he totally stinks the next 2 games.  It doesnt matter.

Concur. 

You have to give him at LEAST one year and likely two.

Can’t overreact after basically 3 or 4 quarters of preseason football. 

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38 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I think most of us want to keep him.

Based on what you’ve seen so far, frog... Where do you put him once camp is finished? Gamer, PS, or pup?

Can't put him on PUP if he's not injured or we'll lose a pick.

Can't put him on the PS because he'll get poached.

Leaves one option.  

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Just now, RobR said:

Putting him on the PUP list is not only not viable, it is against the rules. He's already practiced so the PUP designation is out the window.

Boom.

Maybe he was thinking IR but even then, if it's fake and you get caught, you lose a pick or picks.  

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26 minutes ago, RobR said:

He was definitely thinking IR. The only problem with that is you still would have to expose him to waivers and hope no one puts in a claim.

Really? 

I had no idea. I though if you had a player under contract and he got injured you could IR him and not expose him to waivers. 

That’s how much I know lol. 

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9 minutes ago, RobR said:

It's different for non vested veterans during the preseason. 

Honestly had no idea. Thanks. 

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3 minutes ago, RobR said:

Here is the rule explanation. Just leave out the Tuesday part because this article was written a few years ago.

*Up until the first cut-down day, which was Tuesday, injured non-vested players must be placed on waivers through the waived/injured designation before being placed on injured reserve. This prevents teams from stashing young players on injured reserve. Once a waived/injured player clears waivers, he reverts to the team's IR.

*After the first cut-down day, teams can use the waived/injured designation or they can place a player directly on IR.

As bad as folks here think he is, he’s not passing through waivers. 

Thanks. 

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4 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

 

The Watt comparison is sketchy at best, and I’m being kind when I give you that. I’m sure Watt showed a helluva lot more then Polite has through two preseason games, lol.

 

I'm not sure what measure a "helluva alot more" is but JJ Watt had one tackle through his first 2 preseason games.

Polite already has 4 tackles.

And JJ Watt was the 11th pick of the draft.

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1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

He's a third round pick. Can we give him more than two preseason games before we all lose our collective minds? 

And how do you know that watt looked better after two preseason games with zero sacks and just two tackles? These guys are learning on the fly. Polite, if you watched, was often dropping back in coverage on passing downs. He's learning a defense and he still flashed on a couple of plays. 

JJ Watt had one tackle--ONE tackle--through his first 2 preseason games.

Polite has 4.

Yeah, lets cut him. Why be patient with him because it's his fault we've sucked for decades.

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8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Watt played against first team players. And at 40lbs heavier was faster and quicker that Polite. 

But did he perform “a helluva lot better” than Polite in his first two preseason games? 

Nobody remembers how he looked but assuming he stepped onto the field a finished product is stupid. 

And he was the 11th pick of the draft BECAUSE he was 40 pounds heavier and faster. 

How about we give a third rounder more than 3 or 4 quarters of preseason football before we declare him a finished product and cut him. 

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2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Ok. If you took the time to look that up, this Watt comparison means a lot more to you then it does to me. LOL

  Look, I’m not saying Polite is going to bust, hell I was the guy in the draft thread hoping we’d grab him. The last thing I want is to cut him. I’m just asking what role, if any he’s going to play come September.

Less than 20 seconds. It's actually pretty easy.  Player, Game Logs, Year.

http://www.nfl.com/player/j.j.watt/2495488/gamelogs?season=2011

When you are trying to confront hyperbole with hyperbole, it's good to be well equipped.

 

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2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Find the player with Polite’s athletic profile that succeeded. 

The only reason to think that Polite might be anything is because he was good in college and generally pass rushers translate well from college to NFL. But that’s just one bit of evidence against a multitude of evidence in the other direction.

You are arguing something different than what is being discussed.

Who knows whether he will be good or not.

Should we cut him NOW cannot be decided based upon his weight, timed speed, quickness or any other criteria.  Right now.

If there is a multitude of evidence right NOW that he won't be any good then we should have cut him the day after he was drafted.

Let's give him a year.  Or 2. Maybe the 21 year old 238 pound guy fills out to a solid 250 pound guys when he's 23 and been in an NFL strength and conditioning program for 2 years.  And his natural pass rushing talents can be better put to use.

Or cut him now.

One of them sounds like a good idea.

 

 

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8 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Yes, the team can cut him now and evidence states that he should be cut. I don’t think we will be cut but I’m not holding out hope for a turn around. 

At this point our front 7 is so deep that keeping Polite means cutting from somewhere else. Is the hope that Polite has been lazy during the most critical parts of the career worth a roster spot? If his potential is capped by his athleticism, do you keep a backup caliber player at the expense of depth?

 

Potential capped by athleticism. 

Wow. 

If conjecture could ever be captured in one phrase, you have done it. 

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Just now, kdels62 said:

What? Polite in the measurements that have proven useful for determining future success falls well short of any threshold. That’s not conjecture, it’s reality. If he had the athleticism and was out there looking how he does now, I’d want him on the roster but he hasn’t shown anything worth keeping.

In 3-1/2 quarters of preseason football. 

Got it. 

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Mike Mamula had incredible athleticism and potential and his measurements ensured future success. 

We should just use a computer model to determine who is going to be good and who is not. 

Let’s not even let the coaches decide. 

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2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Just a hunch but I think this guy will be ok if not better than ok. Macc took a chance on him but I felt then and now this guy could have a big upside. 

Apparently the computer models say NO so therefore we have to cut him. Now. Not another snap in practice or preseason. 

His potential is capped by his athleticism or some such horsesh*t. 

Dudes 21, folks should relax. 

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8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

No. The combine shows a lack of athleticism. The negative reports and pro day performance show lack of motivation and dedication. The preseason shows the continuation of a trend. 

The reality is that our front 7 is loaded with guys that have flashed, are established, or currently look solid. Who do you cut for a 3rd rounder that hasn’t shown anything and has either limited potential or lacks work ethic?

So you cut him now, right?  Sounds smart. 

Our roster is just SO stocked with talent that there isn't one or 2 guys at the bottom of it we couldn't easily sneak onto the PS.

It's like we're a powerhouse.

I get it, you absolutely hate the guy.

Glad you're not pulling the strings.

 

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10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Dudes do not get more athletic when they hit 24

Dudes get stronger and smarter. I think I became a better athlete into my early mid-20's than when I was 21.  Of course I'm a competitive cheese straightener but I think the same concepts apply.  

He had the ability to get to the QB at Florida, he gets stronger and smarter about the NFL game and one never does know, do one.

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16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I get what you’re saying, but they’re in a bind because you can’t keep a backup OLB who isn’t going to contribute on special teams, and if Polite is just that slow or out of shape, he isn’t helping you on specials. There are back-end roster guys in every camp, every year who flash as a pass rusher who never get a sniff because those roster spots are for maniacs who block on kick and punt returns. Can Polite do that? Will he? That’s how he’s keeping a job right now, because it doesn’t appear that he’s ready to contribute as a rotational specialist. Some of his pass-rush attempts on Thursday were comically pathetic, and those were against dudes who will never see the field in a regular season game.

And by your own admission, he's fat and out of shape.

Kids a knucklehead. BMOC at Florida, thought he owned the world.

He has just had a rude awakening.

What happens if a guy takes him under his wing, bangs some sense into his head, humbles him, helps him get into shape and reach his NFL potential.

A guy like...The President?  😂

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Just now, kdels62 said:

What I don’t like is that his status as a 3rd rounder is considered merit to his position on the roster. 

This has been the way of the NFL forever.

Draft capital catches breaks, fairly or unfairly.

You know this yet you're letting yourself get agitated for no reason.

Polite being the 53 man v somebody we stash on the practice squad is not going to break this team.

And yeah, you hate the guy,  It comes out in every post of yours.  Which is fine but it is clouding your ability to look at it objectively.

I don't love the guy or hate they guy. I'm rooting for him because he's a Jet and we spent draft capital on him so my "subjectivity" moves me towards more objective patience. 

There is zero reason to cut him.

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4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

And your post does put a lot of assumption onto me so maybe tone it back.

 

Maybe you tone back sh*tting on the guy and I'll tone it back some.

Or not. 

4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

That’s not gonna change what is true and what isn’t. Hoping that he was lazy and that laziness was hiding a great athlete isn’t reasonable, it’s wishful thinking. It ignores the evidence. 

More conjecture.  You have ZERO idea what an individual is going to do.  All your evidence relates to a pool of different individuals grouped together.

That does not control the future of a single individual. 

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15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Who are we losing to mindlessly cut our 3rd round pick far to early?

Once again why fans never become GMs

Our roster is so stocked we're cutting pro-bowlers at the bottom.

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19 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I cannot begin to tell you how mindless it is to think that we're going to cut Polite not even a full year into his rookie season; nor can I tell you how unbelievably stupid it is to think that we should.

For better or worse, he will be here.

Not a full year.

3-1/2 quarters of 2 preseason games.

Mind-boggling.

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The '3rd round pick' aspect is totally irrelevant because he was a 3rd round pick for mccagnan.  If Douglas had him rated as do not draft or a very low pick there is ZERO loyalty to keep him and not matter how he turns out.  The Jets traded Lee  for a 6th rounder when all the loyalist said, lets see what he can do with gregg williams!

If they can keep him then they will try but I don;t see the new regime getting rid of a guy they like better or not picking up a guy they like better from another team just because polite was a 3rd rounder.

If you look like and play like a 7th rounder or udfa a new regime could care less if you were a 3rd rounder.

I get that but he was a fairly highly rated prospect.

It's not as if he was thought of as a 7th round or UDFA talent--he was always though of as a day 2 pick.

That means folks though he had talent.  To be fair, he f*cked all of that up but you don't throw away talent until you figure out whether there is something there or not. Regardless of who drafted you.  Maybe Douglass had him rated in the 4th round.  Better than a 7th or UDFA. 

I think those of us in favor of not cutting him are of the view that we just don't know, yet--we CAN'T know yet.

Those is favor of cutting him are of the view that he never should have been drafted therefore he needs to be cut immediately.

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2 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

but so far he has not

So far.  It's like we're on mile 23 of the NYC marathon rather than on the GWB stuck in a mass of humanity.  

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14 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

Yup and all the tell tale signs of him being another horrible Macc pic are there.

I hope he turns it around, but would not be surprised if he's gone this year or next.

If he’s gone he’s gone. 

I guess the point is, now may not be the appropriate time. 

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Just now, BROOKLYN JET said:

Kind of like where he was drafted wasn't.

Folks need to get over it. 

Its spilt water, milk under the bridge, it’s done with.

Continuing to get agitated about it, continuing to rail on Mac, it’s not healthy. 

Would folks rejoice more if we cut him today or he turns into a situational pass rusher by week 9? 

I don’t get the compulsion to cut this guy NOW. 

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10 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

I never said to cut him now, but I can understand if he becomes a roster casualty.

I hope more than anything he becomes productive at something, but the odds are not in his favor.

The fact that Macc bet on him is virtually a kiss of death.

That wasn’t directed at you. 

Dudes here want him gone forthwith. 

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3 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I don’t need him cut. I’m just saying that if continues to look like this, I’d hope his roster spot goes to the most deserving player.

Right now I can’t see that being Polite. If he turns it around that’s great but hoping he turns it around and becomes a DPR is hoping for something without any evidence or reason. 

We’re fans. 

At the end of the day your “evidence” and “reason” is just speculation and conjecture based on your own subjective prism. 

We have no idea what the staff thinks or sees. 

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15 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well he fell to the 3rd round for a reason, so while the jets had him rated the highest (3rrd round) it does not mean that the eagles (Douglas) did.

In any case we will have answers soon enough either he will play really well in camp and in the last two ex games and make this a moot point or he will not and then there is a real possibility he could be gone.

Do you think Douglas and the Eagles had him rated lower than the 3rd round? Lower than the 4th? 5th? 

Off his board?

The guy’s not a murderer. 

Regardless of where we took him he was going no lower than early 4. 

He’s got talent. We either tap it or we don’t. I don’t think we’re going to find that out definitively in the next 2 preseason games. 

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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

What would’ve been really interesting is that if we had drafted Ed Oliver. Apparently he clashed with the Eagles front office during pre-draft visits. That’s off topic but it gives some insight into how much character matters for the Joe Douglas.

Great point. 

At least it doesn’t appear Polite pissed off Douglas but maybe he was so disinterested he didn’t care. 

Look, I don’t love Polite, also don’t hate him but I’m really hoping the light goes on, he packs on 20 pounds of muscle and his pass rush moves translate to the NFL. 

But regardless of what any of us think of him from afar, he WAS thought of as a talented player worthy of being drafted in rounds 2-4. 

I can’t, absent gross negligence, throw that away based on a poor predraft process and a few quarters of preseason football. I gotta give this guy a chance during THIS year to show something. 

If he never sees the field and you want to dump him next year for a conditional 7th, have at it. 

Can’t cut a guy that will be claimed by a half a dozen teams. I don’t think you can say the same for a Wint or Basham or the like. Even if they’ve shown.

Now, if you’re telling me it’s between Polite and Luvu or Cashman I push Polite out of the plane at altitude but it’s not. He’s battling against Wint and Basham and Langi and Burgess. 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Numbers:

 

0CBB8D8A-2D02-445B-BDFE-6F69828D2B76.png

3F2E54A0-0AF1-4097-855E-387094AD21F8.png

Can you post Mike Mamula’s?

NFL Hall of Famer Mike Mamula?

Tested off the charts. 

It was predestined. 

By the measurable. And metrics. 

You know, the numbers. 

 

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1 minute ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

Guys with good metrics gone bad...

Guys with bad metrics gone good...

If only there was a way to know which is more probable and what happens more often.

So cut him now is what you’re saying. 

Because it has already been determined. 

By the numbers. 

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28 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

No, clearly that's not what I said.

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

But those metrics charts that @T0mShane keeps trotting out don’t mean much of anything.

He keeps posting Jamal’s crappy “metrics” and in 2 years he’s got 200 career tackles, a whole bunch of top 5 stats for a whole bunch of categories and was f*cking All Pro his second year. 

But let’s go look at a piece of paper and make a final determination. 

Because it’s predestined. 

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8 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

You're right they mean nothing, Polite is going to be great, and only fools like T0m Shane take those charts seriously.

Am I doing it right?

There is a balance between nothing and everything. 

But yes, you are doing it right. 

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