The Polite Question. What’s the answer?

[dbatesman]

34 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

@T0mShane and others...

How do you explain his JR year college stats:

19.5 TFL, 11 sacks, 4 PD, 6 FF

All in the SEC. 

How about this one?

20 TFL, 13.5 sacks, 4 PD, 1 FF

All in the SEC.

[ryu79]

24 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

The Combine was in March. It's now mid August. We're halfway through the preseason.  And he still looks fat and slow. 

If you actually believe that crap, you stick with it. 

He looks more indecisive/tentative than slow or plodding to me through two games. 

He is also being asked to drop back more than I get the sense he was used to rather than just rush...

[Greenseed4]

29 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

How about this one?

20 TFL, 13.5 sacks, 4 PD, 1 FF

All in the SEC.

Who’s that?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Greenseed4 said:

@T0mShane and others...

How do you explain his JR year college stats:

19.5 TFL, 11 sacks, 4 PD, 6 FF

All in the SEC. 

If he performed well 2 years ago in college, but looks fat and slow today, what do you deduce happened?  

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

He had roughly 37 red flags when he was taken and was a Mike Maccagnan pick.  So, yeah, we're gonna go ahead and write him off unless he provides a compelling reason to think he'll turn into something.  

Dude, go back and read the posts right after he was drafted. I think one thread was called that wasn't a good selection and went onto say that was a great selection. Honestly, I don't  care about this guy  so much, third round picks don't  always work out so this would be another one that didn't but I find it funny that nobody was screaming over the 37 red flags you speak of the moment he was selected. 

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, RobR said:

If the poor 4.84 combine time was due to his hamstring, how do you explain that he ran even slower at his proday 6 weeks later? You do realize almost every prospect improves their numbers during their proday. Simple question that doesn't require a paragraph answer.

You've never heard that hamstrings can linger longer than 6 weeks?

Or know that players work with trainers, working on nothing more than lowering their 40's etc for their testings?

And of course, one more time, do you believe having watched his tape that he's a 4.84 40 guy?  You think its just what he is?  LOL, OK

I'll believe something was wrong, you stay convinced thats what he is.

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Positions for which combine numbers matter the most in predictive value:

1.  EDGE

 

**** Big Gap ****

 

Everything else

Sorry if I think theres more to predicting success , for the need to scout other than numbers.

 

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, dbatesman said:

You don’t have to, of course, but it’s by far the strongest predictor of success at the NFL level. This has been extensively documented going back nearly a decade: http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=439601

The argument is the he wasnt physically right when he tested.  He had gained weight as that was an issue some had with him and he injured his hammy.  If thats the case then the numbers are useless.  Not making excuses, 4.84 does say that there is at least some truth to it.  

Of course we go back to the actual point of all of this.  Do you cut a player after two backup appearances or do you hold on to him longer to see what he really is or becomes?  Do you get inpatient like a fan and just say f him and cut him? 

Somehow this has turned from that to his combine and why he struggled.  Could care less, they drafted him in spite of the combine, its too late 

 

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

The Combine was in March. It's now mid August. We're halfway through the preseason.  And he still looks fat and slow. 

If you actually believe that crap, you stick with it. 

he looks fat and slow to you?
 

Sure he does, hes what 20, 30, 40 lbs overweight.  You can just see it.  A whale I tell you.

Like the other notorious Jet fatties;  Mangold, LWilliams, countless others, I read about from Jet fans

[dbatesman]

7 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

Who’s that?

The immortal Jamaal Anderson

[Jetsfan80]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Jets fans: Hey, mistakes were made. You gotta move on.

 

Also Jets fans: Eric Mangini ruined my marriage,

"And Bill Parcells killed my dog."

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Dude, go back and read the posts right after he was drafted. I think one thread was called that wasn't a good selection and went onto say that was a great selection. Honestly, I don't  care about this guy  so much, third round picks don't  always work out so this would be another one that didn't but I find it funny that nobody was screaming over the 37 red flags you speak of the moment he was selected. 

I'm pretty sure people were pointing out those red flags at the time.  Even if they weren't, it's up to the GM to recognize when a guy is a slug.  Unfortunately, the previous front office didn't pay much attention to measurables or advanced metrics.  Hence...Lorenzo Mauldin.  Polite was being touted as a 1st round pick until his disastrous combine and interviews, so I imagine part of that support for the pick was a residue of that "old information".  

I love how people's default when defending a pick is to say "I didn't hear any of you on this message board making these complaints when the pick happened!"  Not only is that false, it's an easy way to deflect blame away from the scouts and GM that look at this stuff (or don't look at this stuff) for months before making the pick.  GM's are paid the big bucks to have foresight, dude.   

[rangerous]

it's kind of too bad polite is following in the long line of mac misses.  he probably needs to have more time at least to get his head around the desire to play the game.  he has the physical talent.  it all comes down to heart and the desire to learn how to play better.

[rangerous]

7 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Dude, go back and read the posts right after he was drafted. I think one thread was called that wasn't a good selection and went onto say that was a great selection. Honestly, I don't  care about this guy  so much, third round picks don't  always work out so this would be another one that didn't but I find it funny that nobody was screaming over the 37 red flags you speak of the moment he was selected. 

sure,   third rounders don't always work out but at that draft position they should at least show some serious potential beyond physical ability.  third round is not a throw away pick.

[Jetsfan80]

35 minutes ago, rangerous said:

sure,   third rounders don't always work out but at that draft position they should at least show some serious potential beyond physical ability.  third round is not a throw away pick.

Yep.  Jordan Jenkins (Macc's only success in the 3rd round prior to perhaps Edoga) was a perfect type of selection.  Somewhat limited upside but a solid floor player.  He didn't get cute with that pick.  Jenkins was a guy we'd had a ton of visits with that offseason (more than any other team by far) and knew exactly what he brought to the table, then went ahead and took him.  Perfectly done.  

And it's not like there weren't options in this draft class at that spot.  Winovich, RB David Montgomery, RB Darrell Henderson, RB Devin Singletary, WR Miles Boykin and several others would have made a ton of sense at that spot.  

At least he seemed to nail the Edoga pick later in the round....

[Jetsfan80]

38 minutes ago, rangerous said:

it's kind of too bad polite is following in the long line of mac misses.  he probably needs to have more time at least to get his head around the desire to play the game.  he has the physical talent.  it all comes down to heart and the desire to learn how to play better.

If only we could put Lorenzo Mauldin's mind/drive in Polite's body.  

[nycdan]

28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If only we could put Lorenzo Mauldin's mind/drive in Polite's body.  

At the time of the combine, you could have put Lorenzo Mauldin in Polite's body.

[RobR]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You've never heard that hamstrings can linger longer than 6 weeks?

If his hammy was as bad as you say he wouldn't have ran the 40 again at his proday, or participated in every other drill. It's not like it's mandatory. 

[ljr]

8'6" in the broad jump is only acceptable if you're attempting it in a wheelchair, backwards, in soft-pack sand. 

I wonder if his airspeed velocity was faster than that of an unladen African swallow?






Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

If his hammy was as bad as you say he wouldn't have ran the 40 again at his proday, or participated in every other drill. It's not like it's mandatory. 

OMG, youre going to go on insisting hes a 4.84 40 guy?  Really, its this important to you?  

Go find Polite and tell him hes a liar and move on already. 

Macc used a 3rd on him.  Hes on the team. Hes not getting cut because you dont like his combine or pro day numbers.  He'll get a chance and if he cant play he'll be gone.  Not because a couple of fans actually believe theyre GMs and you can decide what a player will be by reading test scores.

 

[RobR]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

OMG, youre going to go on insisting hes a 4.84 40 guy?  Really, its this important to you?  

Go find Polite and tell him hes a liar and move on already. 

Macc used a 3rd on him.  Hes on the team. Hes not getting cut because you dont like his combine or pro day numbers.  He'll get a chance and if he cant play he'll be gone.  Not because a couple of fans actually believe theyre GMs and you can decide what a player will be by reading test scores.

 

You have some serious reading comprehension issues. Not only did I state earlier in this thread that I wouldn't cut him but I said he should make our 53 because if he gets exposed to waivers someone would claim him. In the long run I still don't think he's going to pan out but even I wouldn't cut him yet.

And yes he is a 4.84 guy because that is the fastest forty time he's ever run. Do you want to go by his proday where he was north of 5.0?

[Warfish]

Has he done anything of note in camp or preseason so far?  Shown a spark.  Made a good move.  Beat a guy hard.  Anything to provide positive projection going forward so far?

I feel like no, but maybe I missed a play.  

Kids gonna need time.  I don't see him being cut, but if he doesn't develop, I wouldn't also expect him (a Macc reach pick) still being a Jet this time next year.

It's all on him.  Does he have the passion and desire to play and make a career.  If not, he'll be gone.

[Greenseed4]

11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If he performed well 2 years ago in college, but looks fat and slow today, what do you deduce happened?  

That was last year. 

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, RobR said:

You have some serious reading comprehension issues

I've said at least 5 times that the point of what I've written is he isnt getting cut.

That I repeated it again and got you twisted.  Good for you.  I also said move on and you just cant.  You want to believe whatever you want. 

Proves that I have reading comp issues?  I dont care.  

At least I'm not delusional enough to think I'm a GM and can evaluate players by combine or pro day numbers off a computer. 

One more time, move on, go troll someone else.  This is boring

[More Cowbell]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm pretty sure people were pointing out those red flags at the time.  Even if they weren't, it's up to the GM to recognize when a guy is a slug.  Unfortunately, the previous front office didn't pay much attention to measurables or advanced metrics.  Hence...Lorenzo Mauldin.  Polite was being touted as a 1st round pick until his disastrous combine and interviews, so I imagine part of that support for the pick was a residue of that "old information".  

I love how people's default when defending a pick is to say "I didn't hear any of you on this message board making these complaints when the pick happened!"  Not only is that false, it's an easy way to deflect blame away from the scouts and GM that look at this stuff (or don't look at this stuff) for months before making the pick.  GM's are paid the big bucks to have foresight, dude.   

Actually I see this as Monday morning QBing. The guy apparently  seemed like a value pick in the third round and everyone thought it was an awesome pick at the time. Now that he isn't  working out, nobody in their right mind should have made this pick.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Actually I see this as Monday morning QBing. The guy apparently  seemed like a value pick in the third round and everyone thought it was an awesome pick at the time. Now that he isn't  working out, nobody in their right mind should have made this pick.  

Because people are only figuring out now why he fell so much.  Armchair GM's only saw his productivity in college and assumed he was a steal.  Digging deeper, he probably should have fallen beyond the 3rd round.  

GM's are supposed to have plenty of info on these guys and recognize busts a lot easier than we can.  But if you don't use the info at hand, or ignore rather obvious red flags, it leads to some really bad picks.  

[More Cowbell]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because people are only figuring out now why he fell so much.  Armchair GM's only saw his productivity in college and assumed he was a steal.  Digging deeper, he probably should have fallen beyond the 3rd round.  

GM's are supposed to have plenty of info on these guys and recognize busts a lot easier than we can.  But if you don't use the info at hand, or ignore rather obvious red flags, it leads to some really bad picks.  

Fine but that isn't  what I'm reading in this thread. 

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Fine but that isn't  what I'm reading in this thread. 

To add to this, everyone e desperately  wanted an edge rusher. I would  venture to say that in the third round, this guy possibly had the most upside of anyone left as far as pass rusher. People criticize picking BPA and that isn't  what this was, it was a need pick so now we shouldn't  do that either. 

[Jetsfan80]

18 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

To add to this, everyone e desperately  wanted an edge rusher. I would  venture to say that in the third round, this guy possibly had the most upside of anyone left as far as pass rusher. People criticize picking BPA and that isn't  what this was, it was a need pick so now we shouldn't  do that either. 

I wanted a GOOD pass rusher too.  Emphasis on "good".  At first I praised the pick because I thought at the time Polite would be a good pass rusher.  The numbers and eye test suggest otherwise.  

Based on how far he fell, and probably would have continued to fall, the BPA argument doesn't work.  We don't know how the other GM's graded him, but he looks more like a 5th round project type at this point.  If that was the case, he wasn't the BPA/value pick to make there.  

Jordan Jenkins was basically a starter from Day 1.  THAT'S what a good 3rd round selection looks like.  Edoga also.  

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

To add to this, everyone e desperately  wanted an edge rusher. I would  venture to say that in the third round, this guy possibly had the most upside of anyone left as far as pass rusher. People criticize picking BPA and that isn't  what this was, it was a need pick so now we shouldn't  do that either. 

It's never a black and white decision, need vs. BAP.  It's always going to be a lend of those two things.

Only an idiot would draft 100% BAP or 100% Need.  

[Philc1]

You guys would have crucified Melvin Ingram

[Greenseed4]

7 hours ago, dbatesman said:

The immortal Jamaal Anderson

I see.  You found a guy with college stats similar to Polite, who was drafted in the first round, over a decade ago.  

Maybe I don't see.  

[Greenseed4]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  Jordan Jenkins (Macc's only success in the 3rd round prior to perhaps Edoga) was a perfect type of selection.  Somewhat limited upside but a solid floor player.  He didn't get cute with that pick.  Jenkins was a guy we'd had a ton of visits with that offseason (more than any other team by far) and knew exactly what he brought to the table, then went ahead and took him.  Perfectly done.  

And it's not like there weren't options in this draft class at that spot.  Winovich, RB David Montgomery, RB Darrell Henderson, RB Devin Singletary, WR Miles Boykin and several others would have made a ton of sense at that spot.  

At least he seemed to nail the Edoga pick later in the round....

Yep.  And Jordan Jenkins also only had 4 tackles combined through his first two preseason games.  You're awesome. 

[dbatesman]

14 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

I see.  You found a guy with college stats similar to Polite, who was drafted in the first round, over a decade ago.  

Maybe I don't see.  

How do you explain those stats?

[Greenseed4]

10 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

How do you explain those stats?

Jachai's?  I don't know.  Scheme? He was probably in ears-pinned back mode and told to get the QB in college, not running gassers on special teams so his coach could see what he was made of.  

Anderson's? I don't know, but that guy was 6'5, 280.  He probably just out-muscled smaller college kids.  Even then, he lasted five years before the league gave up on him, not just two PRESEASON games.