Butterfield Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Very few people will watch this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: He can have all the money in the world but he has to have a TV contract to survive. Last time NBC told them they were pulling the plug and it was gone. Plus I really bounty he'll float the XFL on his dime if they're losing money. https://blacksportsonline.com/2019/05/twitter-reacts-to-xfls-massive-tv-contract-with-fox-and-espn-and-how-its-already-better-than-aaf-tweets-video/ Ummm... they already have TV deals... with 2 stations picking up the tab and they are both multi-year deals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Stark said: New Teams and logos.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Butterfield said: Very few people will watch this. Not true... I bet they get huge audiences and even bigger if the product is good. They aren't competing with much that time of year for broadcast time and they will be on sports channels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said: https://blacksportsonline.com/2019/05/twitter-reacts-to-xfls-massive-tv-contract-with-fox-and-espn-and-how-its-already-better-than-aaf-tweets-video/ Ummm... they already have TV deals... with 2 stations picking up the tab and they are both multi-year deals They had tv deals the last time too. NBC aired their games and they actually had more viewers than the NHL And it still flopped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony MaC said: Also it's gonna be really expensive to provide travel to these teams, damn. One thing to note about smaller leagues like this is that they tend to cluster in short proximity because that tends to be one of the bigger costs. Better to bus a team over to a game some 3-5 hours away than fly them cross country 4 times. And I just realized the "Guardians" will be playing at Metlife. Gonna make the Red Bulls playing at Giants Stadium look cozy I think. Maybe, but since they are at major cities the flights won't be too hard to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Philc1 said: They had tv deals the last time too. NBC aired their games and they actually had more viewers than the NHL And it still flopped Yes, it had terrible football, it was rushed, and tried to make it like the WWE. Vince has already stated he knows he made big mistakes and the AAFL would have gone on if it didn't have to pay for broadcast rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfield Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Not true... I bet they get huge audiences and even bigger if the product is good. They aren't competing with much that time of year for broadcast time and they will be on sports channels. I disagree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said: Yes, it had terrible football, it was rushed, and tried to make it like the WWE. Vince has already stated he knows he made big mistakes and the AAFL would have gone on if it didn't have to pay for broadcast rights. The mistake was even trying. The quality of the games was the least of their problems The only reason Vince is even doing this is because he was upset about the NFL not suspending Kaepernick two years ago, this is another meltdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Why, because he succeeded with the last version of the XFL? It failed because of McMahon. He wouldn't listen to all that wanted it to be real football while he wanted it to be closer to wrestling. And on top of that he pushed for the stripper like cheerleaders, the rest of the offensive presentation for most people All true. However he isn't doing that at all this time around. He hired people to run the league, and he's letting them run it. I think he learned his lesson the first time around. This is way more organized and professional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, sourceworx said: All true. However he isn't doing that at all this time around. He hired people to run the league, and he's letting them run it. I think he learned his lesson the first time around. This is way more organized and professional. And still not profitable 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Why, because he succeeded with the last version of the XFL? It failed because of McMahon. He wouldn't listen to all that wanted it to be real football while he wanted it to be closer to wrestling. And on top of that he pushed for the stripper like cheerleaders, the rest of the offensive presentation for most people No he failed... He admitted it. AAF was on its way to relevance when they cut it short for money which won't happen here. NBC pulled the plug last time because they part owned the league. Right now ESPN and Fox only have offered free broadcasting for years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, sourceworx said: All true. However he isn't doing that at all this time around. He hired people to run the league, and he's letting them run it. I think he learned his lesson the first time around. This is way more organized and professional. Like you said, you think. He had a lot of football people involved last time but after the start went WWE crazy. We'll see. But why, even if they play it straight, should they work over say the AAF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Philc1 said: The mistake was even trying. The quality of the games was the least of their problems The only reason Vince is even doing this is because he was upset about the NFL not suspending Kaepernick two years ago, this is another meltdown I disagree. Like the AAF, they see an opportunity in a developmental league. It may fail but I think its actually going to last a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Jet Nut said: Like you said, you think. He had a lot of football people involved last time but after the start went WWE crazy. We'll see. But why, even if they play it straight, should they work over say the AAF? AAF had to pay for broadcasting games... became far to expensive and is part of the reason they had to fold. You should read about it. Its interesting. I think a well run league that doesn't have to pay for these things will succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said: No he failed... He admitted it. AAF was on its way to relevance when they cut it short for money which won't happen here. NBC pulled the plug last time because they part owned the league. Right now ESPN and Fox only have offered free broadcasting for years. Look, we don't know. No one knows. But football in the NFL offseason has never worked. How many leagues have tried? We're definitely talking opinions, I just have a lot of history with these leagues feeding mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 32 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: He can have all the money in the world but he has to have a TV contract to survive. Last time NBC told them they were pulling the plug and it was gone. Plus I really bounty he'll float the XFL on his dime if they're losing money. He's already liquidated a couple of hundred million dollars to fund it and said he's prepared to go up to 500 million from his own money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: I disagree. Like the AAF, they see an opportunity in a developmental league. It may fail but I think its actually going to last a while. 2 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, Philc1 said: They had tv deals the last time too. NBC aired their games and they actually had more viewers than the NHL And it still flopped People stopped watching because the football was terrible... If the players could play similar to AAF then it would have been a different story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said: He's already liquidated a couple of hundred million dollars to fund it and said he's prepared to go up to 500 million from his own money. Vince will do everything to not have this be another one and done but he won’t make enough revenue in ticket sales, tv merchandising to keep this alive past year 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Look, we don't know. No one knows. But football in the NFL offseason has never worked. How many leagues have tried? We're definitely talking opinions, I just have a lot of history with these leagues feeding mine. True, history proves you right. I just feel that Vince has learned a lot of lessons from the first time around that he won't repeat. Look, I don't think McMahon is that great but he has run the WWE successfully for many years. Some things have failed with WWE but it is still going strong. I think if there was a Billionaire that could pull this off it would be him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said: People stopped watching because the football was terrible... If the players could play similar to AAF then it would have been a different story The footbal itself was not that terrible and wasn’t the problem. Several players from the XFL got NFL contracts based solely on how they played in XFL games (Tommy Maddox, Rod Smart) The problem is the market just isn’t there and you can only borrow enough dollars to keep it afloat for a limited time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Philc1 said: They had tv deals the last time too. NBC aired their games and they actually had more viewers than the NHL And it still flopped They folded because NBC (their partner at the time) dropped them because of the low ratings and poor attendance in some of the markets. The league was a disorganized mess in 2001. The players had no prep time before the season started, and they were messing around with the rules each week. Now they gave themselves two years to get started. They've been working with the Spring League to test out certain rules, and they are giving the teams ample time to prepare for the season. They put teams in bigger markets because in 2001 the teams that did the best attendance-wise were NY and LA. I just read that another thing they are doing is fielding a 9th team, who will work out and practice on their own to serve as a ready-to-go pool of players that the other teams can dip into to replace injured players on their rosters. Almost like a larger practice squad. Pretty smart idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Philc1 said: Vince will do everything to not have this be another one and done but he won’t make enough revenue in ticket sales, tv merchandising to keep this alive past year 2 Yeah, I was just refuting the notion that this was like the AAF and likely to fold mid-season. Vince has enough money to keep this thing afloat for an entire season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Philc1 said: The footbal itself was not that terrible and wasn’t the problem. Several players from the XFL got NFL contracts based solely on how they played in XFL games (Tommy Maddox, Rod Smart) The problem is the market just isn’t there and you can only borrow enough dollars to keep it afloat for a limited time Maybe, but there are tons of cast-offs and thats why it may work. And the football was terrible. So many dropped passes... bad throws... sh*t defense... no O-line. Reminded me of the Jets before 2017, Ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: Yeah, I was just refuting the notion that this was like the AAF and likely to fold mid-season. Vince has enough money to keep this thing afloat for an entire season. It has the capital to keep it running for a year or two. Vince can also borrow money but only for so long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfield Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: People stopped watching because the football was terrible... If the players could play similar to AAF then it would have been a different story The football is still going to be terrible. No one outside of a few die hards even know this league is going to exist. The AAF had a 100 people in the stands at some games. What makes you believe that more people are going to show up to these games, when they are in nfl cities, where fans just got done watching 5-6 months of football. The league may last longer, only because McMahon doesn’t seem to care about wasting his own money. But it will be just as big of a failure. No one is going to watch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Philc1 said: And still not profitable How are they going to be profitable if they haven't even played a game yet? Right now they are building the league. Look I agree the probability of it succeeding is still low. But it's way more organized than a lot of the other Spring leagues that have come and gone. And these leagues often come up with innovative ideas that the NFL eventually adopts. For that reason alone it is interesting to follow, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, sourceworx said: They folded because NBC (their partner at the time) dropped them because of the low ratings and poor attendance in some of the markets. The league was a disorganized mess in 2001. The players had no prep time before the season started, and they were messing around with the rules each week. Now they gave themselves two years to get started. They've been working with the Spring League to test out certain rules, and they are giving the teams ample time to prepare for the season. They put teams in bigger markets because in 2001 the teams that did the best attendance-wise were NY and LA. I just read that another thing they are doing is fielding a 9th team, who will work out and practice on their own to serve as a ready-to-go pool of players that the other teams can dip into to replace injured players on their rosters. Almost like a larger practice squad. Pretty smart idea. NBC will dump them the way they dumped Howard Stern. It’s a business they can get better ratings airing dumb reality shows that have 1/1000th the budget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, sourceworx said: How are they going to be profitable if they haven't even played a game yet? Right now they are building the league. Look I agree the probability of it succeeding is still low. But it's way more organized than a lot of the other Spring leagues that have come and gone. And these leagues often come up with innovative ideas that the NFL eventually adopts. For that reason alone it is interesting to follow, IMO. The XFL will not make money 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Philc1 said: The footbal itself was not that terrible and wasn’t the problem. Several players from the XFL got NFL contracts based solely on how they played in XFL games (Tommy Maddox, Rod Smart) As the season progressed, yes. But on the opening week they drew huge ratings, and the quality of play sucked. At that point the damage was done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Butterfield said: The football is still going to be terrible. No one outside of a few die hards even know this league is going to exist. The AAF had a 100 people in the stands at some games. What makes you believe that more people are going to show up to these games, when they are in nfl cities, where fans just got done watching 5-6 months of football. The league may last longer, only because McMahon doesn’t seem to care about wasting his own money. But it will be just as big of a failure. No one is going to watch. Because they are in major cities the attendance will be high. In the original XFL LA and NY had very well attended games. AAF placed the games in small cities, this made it hard to get to and less likely that people would make a roadtrip to the stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Philc1 said: NBC will dump them the way they dumped Howard Stern. It’s a business they can get better ratings airing dumb reality shows that have 1/1000th the budget Fox and ESPN not NBC... NBC part owned the league last time... This time Fox and ESPN have given free broadcasting for multiple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfield Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, The Voice of Reason said: Because they are in major cities the attendance will be high. In the original XFL LA and NY had very well attended games. AAF placed the games in small cities, this made it hard to get to and less likely that people would make a roadtrip to the stadium. That makes little to no sense. The smaller cities have much less competition. Less chance to watch football. Less of other sports to divide attention. Less of other activities all together. And still plenty of people to attend. People are just tired of football by the end of the season. Most football fans I know are excited to do other things on the weekend for a change. Spring football doesn’t have a chance. No one, other than a few diehards, cares to watch substandard players play in a substandard league when there are plenty of other things to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 If McMahon has billions he can afford to throw $50 million contracts at a few big name prospects like Tua, and the NFL won't be able to match it because of the rookie cap. I think this is a high risk high reward strategy that could work. I think it may have worked for a smaller start up league in the past ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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