Jets \ Bills Game Plan: MERGED

[TNJet]

31- 13 Jets.

[jeTMAC]

I have the Jets winning this gm 24 - 13!!! I can see Allen getting knocked out of the game bc he takes too many chances running the ball.. Bell and Montgomery will combine for over a hundred yards rushing. Crowder will score a touchdown!!! Defense defense defense will lead the way

[JoshAllenSZN]

Hey all.

Bills fan here (as made clear by the username, I assume). I come in peace. Not to talk trash or make bold claims, but simply for some good X's and O's discussion with the opposition.

A lot of good discussion in this thread already, it seems. I agree with the notion that the Jets need to show lots of disguised coverages to try to confuse Allen. The "pick your poison" with Allen, I think, is whether or not to pressure him and flush him out of the pocket, or whether to play conservative shell coverages and spy him, forcing him to stay in the pocket and play quarterback. On the one hand, if you don't bring pressure, he'll have time to set up behind what should be an improved offensive line and sling the rock deep to John Brown and Robert Foster. On the other hand, if you DO bring pressure, you'll likely force him to make some dumb mistakes, but you also open yourself up to losing contain and watching him make big gains running the football. Someone mentioned that the offense has been running through Cole Beasley this offseason, and that's true. Putting the clamps on him will be necessary to prevent frequent 1st down catches.

If I were tasked with stopping the Bills offense using the Jets' defensive personnel, I would play conservative coverage shells and force Allen to dink and dunk his way to scores. His whole game at this point is built off of running the ball and hitting chunk plays with his arm. Preventing those things and forcing him to try to read coverages and dissect your defense on long drives over and over again is likely the best option. Every now and again, I'd bring exotic pressures but try to put the clamps on Beasley, who will be Allen's immediate checkdown preference all season long.

Offensively for the Jets: they MUST run the football and use play-action to get the Bills' aggressive linebackers to bite, thus opening space in the middle of the field for intermediate routes by Enunwa, Anderson, and Crowder. Airing it out all game long and abandoning the run game will NOT be a good recipe for the Jets.

Offensively for the Bills, I expect one of two primary strategies: Allen and company will either try to get the run game (which they hope will be much improved behind the new offensive linemen) going and follow it up with a healthy dose of play action over the top to Brown and Foster OR they'll come out in 21 and 22 personnel, then flex to open formations and force the Jets' depleted linebacking corps to match up against Beasley, Jones, Knox, and Singletary/McCoy and open up the field for Allen either run it or find the open man. Brian Daboll has a lot of New England left in him, so whether the Bills come out in power run formations or spread the field (or both) is a bit of an open question until further notice. Defensively for the Bills, it'll be the usual McDermott plan: Mix and match coverages which remain disguised until the last minute. Show a lot of double A-Gap pressure. Force the Jets offense to go down the field time and again and not make mistakes.

This will be a close and fiercely contested matchup. The factors of the game, in my opinion: home field advantage for the Jets and the newness of the Gase/Williams regime vs the third straight year of the McDermott regime in Buffalo. On the one hand, having a new head coach and new defensive coordinator means the Bills won't have as much tape on the Jets to pore over as they usually would. The Jets can present some unexpected threats in this regard. On the other hand, the experience/"familiarity with scheme" edge has to go to Buffalo. As a Bills fan, the hope is that it takes some time for the Jets' new offensive line to get on the same page, for Bell to shake his rust off, and for the defense to execute Williams' schemes soundly. Bills fans are licking their chops at the fact that Brandon Copeland and Avery Williamson are out, while the Jets cornerbacks certainly don't look like much of a threat on paper. All in all, I really do expect a close matchup that can go either way. Oh, and one more thing: The Bills had the #1 pass defense and #2 yardage defense last season and have since added Ed Oliver and more depth in the secondary. People saying the Jets are gonna hang 34 on the Bills are being overly optimistic, in my opinion. Lastly, the factor that most directly swung the game the last time these two played (Andre Roberts' big returns) now wears red, white, and blue. Don't be surprised if the game comes down to a big special teams play or two.

Final score prediction: Bills 23, Jets 20. What? You didn't think a Bills fan would actually come in here and predict Jets victory, did you?  

[Losmeister]

ideas from oppposition always cool. trash talk? never.

we'll see.

i wouldnt touch this game, prediction wise.

 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

Hey all.

Bills fan here (as made clear by the username, I assume). I come in peace. Not to talk trash or make bold claims, but simply for some good X's and O's discussion with the opposition.

A lot of good discussion in this thread already, it seems. I agree with the notion that the Jets need to show lots of disguised coverages to try to confuse Allen. The "pick your poison" with Allen, I think, is whether or not to pressure him and flush him out of the pocket, or whether to play conservative shell coverages and spy him, forcing him to stay in the pocket and play quarterback. On the one hand, if you don't bring pressure, he'll have time to set up behind what should be an improved offensive line and sling the rock deep to John Brown and Robert Foster. On the other hand, if you DO bring pressure, you'll likely force him to make some dumb mistakes, but you also open yourself up to losing contain and watching him make big gains running the football. Someone mentioned that the offense has been running through Cole Beasley this offseason, and that's true. Putting the clamps on him will be necessary to prevent frequent 1st down catches.

If I were tasked with stopping the Bills offense using the Jets' defensive personnel, I would play conservative coverage shells and force Allen to dink and dunk his way to scores. His whole game at this point is built off of running the ball and hitting chunk plays with his arm. Preventing those things and forcing him to try to read coverages and dissect your defense on long drives over and over again is likely the best option. Every now and again, I'd bring exotic pressures but try to put the clamps on Beasley, who will be Allen's immediate checkdown preference all season long.

Offensively for the Jets: they MUST run the football and use play-action to get the Bills' aggressive linebackers to bite, thus opening space in the middle of the field for intermediate routes by Enunwa, Anderson, and Crowder. Airing it out all game long and abandoning the run game will NOT be a good recipe for the Jets.

Offensively for the Bills, I expect one of two primary strategies: Allen and company will either try to get the run game (which they hope will be much improved behind the new offensive linemen) going and follow it up with a healthy dose of play action over the top to Brown and Foster OR they'll come out in 21 and 22 personnel, then flex to open formations and force the Jets' depleted linebacking corps to match up against Beasley, Jones, Knox, and Singletary/McCoy and open up the field for Allen either run it or find the open man. Brian Daboll has a lot of New England left in him, so whether the Bills come out in power run formations or spread the field (or both) is a bit of an open question until further notice. Defensively for the Bills, it'll be the usual McDermott plan: Mix and match coverages which remain disguised until the last minute. Show a lot of double A-Gap pressure. Force the Jets offense to go down the field time and again and not make mistakes.

This will be a close and fiercely contested matchup. The factors of the game, in my opinion: home field advantage for the Jets and the newness of the Gase/Williams regime vs the third straight year of the McDermott regime in Buffalo. On the one hand, having a new head coach and new defensive coordinator means the Bills won't have as much tape on the Jets to pore over as they usually would. The Jets can present some unexpected threats in this regard. On the other hand, the experience/"familiarity with scheme" edge has to go to Buffalo. As a Bills fan, the hope is that it takes some time for the Jets' new offensive line to get on the same page, for Bell to shake his rust off, and for the defense to execute Williams' schemes soundly. Bills fans are licking their chops at the fact that Brandon Copeland and Avery Williamson are out, while the Jets cornerbacks certainly don't look like much of a threat on paper. All in all, I really do expect a close matchup that can go either way. Oh, and one more thing: The Bills had the #1 pass defense and #2 yardage defense last season and have since added Ed Oliver and more depth in the secondary. People saying the Jets are gonna hang 34 on the Bills are being overly optimistic, in my opinion. Lastly, the factor that most directly swung the game the last time these two played (Andre Roberts' big returns) now wears red, white, and blue. Don't be surprised if the game comes down to a big special teams play or two.

Final score prediction: Bills 23, Jets 20. What? You didn't think a Bills fan would actually come in here and predict Jets victory, did you?  

Welcome. 

The Jets are winning the division at 11-5 on tiebreakers over the Patriots.  Our 4-0 start makes us the talk of the league.

Will you be rooting for us in the playoffs?

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

I can easily see Bell getting 20 carries and 8 or so receptions.  Theyre not playing him to get only a minimal number of carries.

Plenty of backs, including Bell, have had minimal or no carries in the preseason.

Hes our best offensive weapon.

 

[NYJ1]

6 hours ago, Maxman said:

They still have two preseason games left, but as I look at the schedule I realize the Jets HAVE TO win the opener. It is a division opponent and the Jets are 3.5 point favorite.

No Chris Herndon so Gase will be creative with the receivers. Not sure what kind of workload Bell will have week one, maybe 12 carries, 4 receptions?

No cornerbacks so Gregg Williams will have to be creative as well. The league seemed surprised at how much Josh Allen ran last year so they will be ready for that.

The Jets OLine should be pretty healthy so that is a plus....

Anyhow, what will the game plan be to beat the Bills? (other than control the line of scrimmage and avoid turnovers lol).

Don't forget we'll be missing Brandon Copeland also? 

The game plan should be the same as it always is with a rookie QB. Josh Allen sucks, so the game plan is to stop the Bills running game (that shouldn't be hard, our DL is built to stop the run). Challenge Josh Allen to beat the Jets through the air. On offense, we need to establish Bell and the running game. Then have Sammy take advantage with play action. MUST do better on 1st and 2nd down to set up 3rd and much shorter. The Jets were terrible on 3rd down last season because the offense overall sucked. We SHOULD be better this season.

[JoshAllenSZN]

41 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Welcome. 

The Jets are winning the division at 11-5 on tiebreakers over the Patriots.  Our 4-0 start makes us the talk of the league.

Will you be rooting for us in the playoffs?

SAR I

Starting 4-0? With consecutive wins over the Browns, Patriots, and Eagles?

Is this really what you believe?

[JoshAllenSZN]

19 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Don't forget we'll be missing Brandon Copeland also? 

The game plan should be the same as it always is with a rookie QB. Josh Allen sucks, so the game plan is to stop the Bills running game (that shouldn't be hard, our DL is built to stop the run). Challenge Josh Allen to beat the Jets through the air. On offense, we need to establish Bell and the running game. Then have Sammy take advantage with play action. MUST do better on 1st and 2nd down to set up 3rd and much shorter. The Jets were terrible on 3rd down last season because the offense overall sucked. We SHOULD be better this season.

Fun fact: Josh Allen produced as many touchdowns as a rookie as Sam Darnold did, but in two less games. Allen also threw less interceptions than Darnold.

I like Sam Darnold a lot and think he'll be great in the NFL for a long time. I'm not here to tell you that Allen is better than Darnold, either. However, I DO think Allen is gonna make lots of people eat their words this year. 

I guess we'll all see firsthand in a few weeks, when the bullets start flying for real.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

Final score prediction: Bills 23, Jets 20. What? You didn't think a Bills fan would actually come in here and predict Jets victory, did you?

I bet you predicted a Bills win at home last you too.   Am I right? 

[SAR I]

18 minutes ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

Starting 4-0? With consecutive wins over the Browns, Patriots, and Eagles?

Is this really what you believe?

Browns: We have Gregg Williams and they are dreadfully overrated. 

Patriots:  Always struggle against AFCE early in the season and Gase knows how to beat them. 

Eagles:  Riding high at 3-0 our confidence is soaring and our bye week helps with preparation. 

SAR I

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

Final score prediction: Bills 23, Jets 20. What? You didn't think a Bills fan would actually come in here and predict Jets victory, did you?  

Welcome to JN.  Pretty good post.  Always good to have other teams fans here, gives insight we may not get otherwise.

Personally, if the Jets are to win, I think it may come down to an offensive shootout and who A. turns it over the most with early season oopsies and B. has fewer defensive unit early season breakdowns in coverage/scheme.

These early games are often hideous in terms of quality of play, so who knows.  We're certainly not winning this one with our Defense IMO.  It'll come down to Allen vs. Darnold.  Darnold has Bell.  Allen has a Comittee, but also has Allen himself.  Gonna be fun, and interesting.

[Bungaman]

Welcome, JoshAllenSZN!

Don't worry, we have a full range of minimal, normal, psychotic and psychopathic participation here. Some of the posts/answers are rational, and the rest ... most? ... uh ... Probably par for most boards, but here, there's good variety of posts and posters.

I think we share the Bills' fans sense of deprivation, and complete loathing of anything Cheatriot related. With the stinky Phish close behind. I have always admired the Bills fans tailgating "traditions." 40 years ago (I am past 60 now,) I would have loved to break a folding table with my body in public. Now that just happens to me when I go to pee in the middle of the night at someone else's house ...

So no matter the outcome of the game, you're welcome to visit - though I speak for myself, I suspect it's a shared sentiment among the marginally sane here.

[TokyoJetsFan]

Bills message board thread in response to this thread:

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/217380-from-jet-nation-wk-1-gameplan/

[Bungaman]

Oh - Jets 27, Bills 20. Greg Williams is able to stir up enough smoke and mirrors, and Gase comes up with a few things not on tape, to help us slog to the finish line first. I predict at least two turnovers for each team ... a sloppy one.

BTW, I want either the Bills or the Jets to knock that Cheatriot QB out of a game. Preferably us, but I'll settle for you guys.  Living in VT, I hear nothing but chatter from their spoiled, ignorant fans. A plague on them. Or di*k leprosy.

[Icer]

It's a game we need to win, at home against a lesser opponent. The first handful of games are brutal, we are at risk of starting on a real bad note if we drop this game. The Bills always play us tough, so its concerning

[JoshAllenSZN]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

I bet you predicted a Bills win at home last you too.   Am I right? 

I sure did! But then, I also didn't see the Matt Barkley drubbing of Gang Green at Metlife to the tune of 41 points, either. Clearly I'm a bad predictor.

I was actually at the second Bills-Jets game last year. I truly feel that Andre Roberts swung the outcome. I was happy to see the Bills sign him this year when the Jets didn't want to pay him. I get WHY the Jets didn't want to pay him, too. I'm just saying I'm glad the Bills were willing to pay. Sometimes, big returns can win you a game or two a year.

 

[BROOKLYN JET]

Win.

[JoshAllenSZN]

Just wanted to say a quick thanks to everyone for being welcoming and offering good discussion thus far. I usually don't join opposition message boards, but upon seeing the high quality of discussion in this thread, I decided to make an exception.

I view the Jets and Bills as very similar at this stage: Young QBs that the fan bases believe in, newly rebuilt offensive lines, WR corps featuring two receivers who can take the top off a defense and newly signed slot guys, exciting 1st round rookies at DT...in short, I see more similarities than I do differences. The key differences I DO see are mostly in management and coaching staff. I'm a big fan of McDermott and Beane, while I was not as impressed with Gase in his recent stint in Miami. I'm curious to know how most of you feel about Gase as head coach. I know there were all sorts of rumors before he was hired linking you to guys like Matt Rhule, Mike Sherman, etc....Now that camp and preseason have mostly come and gone, I'm wondering what the pulse of Jets Nation is on Gase at the moment.

Anyway...I foresee an exciting Bills-Jets rivalry over the next decade+. Josh Allen and Sam Darnold are close friends off the field and should make for great rivals on it. If it can't be the Bills that knock the Patriots from their throne, then let it be the Jets. The Phins, well...I'm not too worried about them at the moment. The recent history of Belichick disciples at head coach is not too pretty, and we've all seen how the Ryan Fitzpatrick movie ends.

 

[CTM]

8 hours ago, Maxman said:

They still have two preseason games left, but as I look at the schedule I realize the Jets HAVE TO win the opener. It is a division opponent and the Jets are 3.5 point favorite.

No Chris Herndon so Gase will be creative with the receivers. Not sure what kind of workload Bell will have week one, maybe 12 carries, 4 receptions?

No cornerbacks so Gregg Williams will have to be creative as well. The league seemed surprised at how much Josh Allen ran last year so they will be ready for that.

The Jets OLine should be pretty healthy so that is a plus....

Anyhow, what will the game plan be to beat the Bills? (other than control the line of scrimmage and avoid turnovers lol).

Game plan: Get to the tailgate before crusher 

[BCJet]

8 hours ago, RoadFan said:

Going to be a tough divisional game. 

Cole Beasley will be open much of the day.  John Brown might hit for a big play if Allen makes an accurate throw.  The Jets corners flat out stink.  The Bills wont have much success running the ball unless it is Josh Allen himself.

Everyone knows how I feel about Bell.  He is THE man.  The Jets might struggle to run a bit because Buffalo has a tough defense.  The beauty of Le'V Bell is he can find holes when there aren't because of his vision, and if the Jets really struggle to run... Gase will use him as a receiver which is just as effective.  I expect Robby to be somewhat neutralized by Tre'Davious White.  Darnold will look early and often for Crowder.

And while I agree with the decision to let him walk, I am nervous about a big return from Andre Roberts...

No prediction for week 1, sorry...  Not until I see the teams play.

 

If our biggest worry is Cole Beasley - I feel good.

Our CBs are a huge weakness right now, but we still have almost 3 weeks before these guys need to be healthy.  But more importantly, you can't just look at a list of players, we have to look at the team.  Having a group of Mosley, Anderson, Leo and Q should allow us to stop the run while staying in a nickel defense because those guys are so big up the middle.  That will allow us to be faster on the edges, even with Jenkins (who is good, just not very fast) and hopefully defend short passes on first and second down to get teams into 3rd and long which our CBs can handle.

[RoadFan]

46 minutes ago, BCJet said:

If our biggest worry is Cole Beasley - I feel good.

Our CBs are a huge weakness right now, but we still have almost 3 weeks before these guys need to be healthy.  But more importantly, you can't just look at a list of players, we have to look at the team.  Having a group of Mosley, Anderson, Leo and Q should allow us to stop the run while staying in a nickel defense because those guys are so big up the middle.  That will allow us to be faster on the edges, even with Jenkins (who is good, just not very fast) and hopefully defend short passes on first and second down to get teams into 3rd and long which our CBs can handle.

Against Atlanta, the Jets demonstrated the possibility of a regular season pass rush better than they have had in years. 

And yet Matt Ryan was throwing to guys WIDE open in like 2 seconds while falling down.   The corners weren't even close.  It is scary that they cant even keep up for 2 seconds. 

We all knew they were bad.  But they're not just bad, they should be trying out for the XFL.

 

[Obrien2Toon]

Montgomery will be our best player like he’s been all camp and will do enough to squeak out a tough divisional game 

[ljr]

Just wanted to say a quick thanks to everyone for being welcoming and offering good discussion thus far.

The key differences I DO see are mostly in management and coaching staff. I'm a big fan of McDermott and Beane, while I was not as impressed with Gase in his recent stint in Miami. I'm curious to know how most of you feel about Gase as head coach. I know there were all sorts of rumors before he was hired linking you to guys like Matt Rhule, Mike Sherman, etc....Now that camp and preseason have mostly come and gone, I'm wondering what the pulse of Jets Nation is on Gase at the moment.
 

Welcome to the board Josh

Love fans of other teams here ... and as you said ... Jets & Bills have a-lot of similarities


You’ll prob hear a big variety of feeling on our coaching staff

As far as my thoughts

A pile of dog $h*t would have been a big upgrade from Bowles ... getting him sorry *$$ out the door is the most important thing that has happened with our coaches.

As far as the new staff ... everything is about Sam

I wanted an offensive minded HC with NFL HC experience ... (preferably with positive lip service/ opinions to him having aggressive/innovative ideas for the NFL 2019 & beyond)

I wanted Mike McCarthy when he came free from Greenbay ... was p/o’d that we didn’t get that done.

I def was anti-Rhule / Sherman / anyone without NFL offense oriented experience in their resume (preferably HC experience)

Somehow i hadn’t even considered Gase ... and then all of a sudden he was our HC

Despite checking the boxes that i cared about I didn’t want him

The difficult to work with / autocratic - my way or the highway reputation turned me off. (Prob that he was coming from the Dolphins as well) ... and finally that he had just been fired as a loser ... i figured the best move for both he & NFL franchises would be to sit him on his couch for a year and see if he could learn some things about himself to do better next time.

I loved the Gregg Williams DC hire ... even though he wouldn’t have checked the offensive boxes that i wanted ... i kept thinking ... $h*t ... i wish this guy was our HC

Then Gase’s 1st press conference he looked like a lunatic ... WTF !?!?!

In the whirlwind that’s been going on since then though I have become very excited by what I’m seeing.

He must have been the driving force behind getting GM Mike McCagnan (who was just as bad of a GM as Bowles was a HC) fired ... and replacing him with the Grade A GMprospect
Of Douglass.

So far Gase has handled everything top-notch ... and he is all in on his 2nd year QB (i’m sure same with you all in Buff)

Our roster depth is very thin in many places ... defense is already in trouble at CB & LB

Only when the speedbumps & pitfalls that happen every NFL season cause the pressure on Gase & staff to ramp up this year will we see if he’s learned anything or if the whole place is going to explode like a dumpster fire!


I’m surprisingly hopeful right now though ... which I never expected I’d bee able to say when he was hired


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jetsman1]

I think our offense is going to score around 27 points and I think our defense will show a lot of 3 safety looks which will cover for our losses at linebacker and also put more speed on the field.  

I think our pass rush is going to continually blow up plays and force Allen to improvise while being constantly harrassed. He's going to take some punishment in this game.

Jets win 27-14.

[NYJ1]

14 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

Fun fact: Josh Allen produced as many touchdowns as a rookie as Sam Darnold did, but in two less games. Allen also threw less interceptions than Darnold.

I like Sam Darnold a lot and think he'll be great in the NFL for a long time. I'm not here to tell you that Allen is better than Darnold, either. However, I DO think Allen is gonna make lots of people eat their words this year. 

I guess we'll all see firsthand in a few weeks, when the bullets start flying for real.

He produced as many touchdowns as Sammy specifically because he was constantly running the ball. A rather unorthodox approach that has always proven to fail over the long term. He threw less interceptions than Sammy because he resorted to running the ball far too often. His approach to playing football in 2018 was to be MICHAEL VICK. That's something he's ill cut out to do. His pocket throwing skills are virtually non existent. Now you can lie about the numbers all you'd like, but the FACT is he has no idea how to dissect NFL defenses in real time so he resorted to running the ball to try and make something happen. It's a very dangerous method he's using. He's either going to learn how to stay in the pocket and become a good QB (Doubtful. He resorts to running the football too often) or he's going to have a severely shortened career due to injury.

[slats]

15 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

Fun fact: Josh Allen produced as many touchdowns as a rookie as Sam Darnold did, but in two less games. Allen also threw less interceptions than Darnold.

I like Sam Darnold a lot and think he'll be great in the NFL for a long time. I'm not here to tell you that Allen is better than Darnold, either. However, I DO think Allen is gonna make lots of people eat their words this year. 

I guess we'll all see firsthand in a few weeks, when the bullets start flying for real.

Hi and welcome. 

"Produced as many TDs," is kind of misleading. Darnold threw for 17 while Allen and his big arm threw 10. Allen is far and away the best athlete of the QBs drafted in the first round last year, but he probably also has the longest way to go as a passer. You say he threw fewer interceptions, but that was simply a function of fewer attempts - his int% was higher than Darnold's. The only passing stat I could find where Allen was better than Darnold is yards/comp, which he wins 12.3 to 12. Sam had the higher comp%, TD%, more ypa, nearly 50 more yards/game. Sam also came on strong as a passer to finish the year, while Josh's improvement was tied more to running the football. Against the Jets last year, for instance, he rushed for over 100 yards, but was 0:2 in his TD: int ratio. 

[slats]

19 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

As a Bills fan, the hope is that it takes some time for the Jets' new offensive line to get on the same page, for Bell to shake his rust off, and for the defense to execute Williams' schemes soundly. Bills fans are licking their chops at the fact that Brandon Copeland and Avery Williamson are out, while the Jets cornerbacks certainly don't look like much of a threat on paper.

Fair hopes. The Jets CBs are very shaky, and the hope for Jet fans is that Josh Allen continues to struggle with his accuracy against them. The Jets are pretty deep at LB and on the DL, and should be able to scheme out of the loss of a couple LBs by playing more 4-3 and/or three safety looks, big nickel, etc. I think for the Jets, the loss of Chris Herndon at TE is a much bigger blow than both LBs combined. 

19 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

Lastly, the factor that most directly swung the game the last time these two played (Andre Roberts' big returns) now wears red, white, and blue. Don't be surprised if the game comes down to a big special teams play or two.

How has Roberts looked this preseason? I remember the Jets letting another electric return specialist and offensive weapon leave and do nothing with the Bills - Brad Smith. The Jets kicking game has been disastrous, but the return game doesn't look too bad. One area of consistency with the Jets coaching staff is the return of Brant Boyer as the ST coach. 

[StaggerLee]

57 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

He produced as many touchdowns as Sammy specifically because he was constantly running the ball. A rather unorthodox approach that has always proven to fail over the long term. He threw less interceptions than Sammy because he resorted to running the ball far too often. His approach to playing football in 2018 was to be MICHAEL VICK. That's something he's ill cut out to do. His pocket throwing skills are virtually non existent. Now you can lie about the numbers all you'd like, but the FACT is he has no idea how to dissect NFL defenses in real time so he resorted to running the ball to try and make something happen. It's a very dangerous method he's using. He's either going to learn how to stay in the pocket and become a good QB (Doubtful. He resorts to running the football too often) or he's going to have a severely shortened career due to injury.

Jeremy Bates was also a terrible OC. The fact that no one in the NFL hired him to any type of coaching position is damning.

Three of his wide receivers (four if you count Golden Tate) calling him out for his terrible play calling didn't help either. 

[JoshAllenSZN]

2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

He produced as many touchdowns as Sammy specifically because he was constantly running the ball. A rather unorthodox approach that has always proven to fail over the long term. He threw less interceptions than Sammy because he resorted to running the ball far too often. His approach to playing football in 2018 was to be MICHAEL VICK. That's something he's ill cut out to do. His pocket throwing skills are virtually non existent. Now you can lie about the numbers all you'd like, but the FACT is he has no idea how to dissect NFL defenses in real time so he resorted to running the ball to try and make something happen. It's a very dangerous method he's using. He's either going to learn how to stay in the pocket and become a good QB (Doubtful. He resorts to running the football too often) or he's going to have a severely shortened career due to injury.

I respect your opinion, and I respectfully disagree with it. I won't spend too much time refuting it, because he'll be playing against your team in two weeks, and we'll all see then who is right and who is wrong. I DO believe that the notion that a raw, rookie QB who only played in 11 games is somehow just NEVER going to improve is a foolish one. Are you also assuming Darnold won't improve? Why is it that you presume second year improvement from your guy, but presume it won't happen for the Bills' guy?

I will also say this, with regard to your "he produced touchdowns because he was constantly running the ball": Until the NFL starts making it so that rushing TDs by QBs count for less points than passing TDs, I don't care how my quarterback scores. Touchdowns are touchdowns. 

Darnold and Allen both looked somewhat lousy before their injuries and time on the bench, and both looked much improved after their return. I don't blame anyone who doubts Allen or thinks he won't succeed. I just happen to disagree. But again, we'll all find out for sure soon enough.

[JoshAllenSZN]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Hi and welcome. 

"Produced as many TDs," is kind of misleading. Darnold threw for 17 while Allen and his big arm threw 10. Allen is far and away the best athlete of the QBs drafted in the first round last year, but he probably also has the longest way to go as a passer. You say he threw fewer interceptions, but that was simply a function of fewer attempts - his int% was higher than Darnold's. The only passing stat I could find where Allen was better than Darnold is yards/comp, which he wins 12.3 to 12. Sam had the higher comp%, TD%, more ypa, nearly 50 more yards/game. Sam also came on strong as a passer to finish the year, while Josh's improvement was tied more to running the football. Against the Jets last year, for instance, he rushed for over 100 yards, but was 0:2 in his TD: int ratio. 

Good post. I don't disagree with anything you said.

Allen DOES have a long way to go. However, I do happen to think he was VASTLY overly criticized by analytics Twitter and hipster draft analysts who only saw a tall guy with a big arm. I get it. I really do. Lots of guys with the "tall, big arm, questionable accuracy" profile have failed over the years. I think the piling on got to be so outrageous, though, that a lot of analysts missed some of the great qualities that he does possess, like running the football. Yes, he needs to learn to stay in the pocket and be a true quarterback more often. Hopefully, with the improvements to the o-line and receiving corps and as he grows more comfortable, he will do just that. But to discount the threat that he presents with his running ability is to do him an unfair disservice. At one point last year, he rushed for more yards over a three-game stretch than any QB in the history of the NFL. He was a QB kneel at the end of a game (minus 2 yards) away from having three straight 100-yard rushing games. Because of the rampant "hahaha Josh Allen stinks" culture on Twitter, it was ignored. He also had the second most 25+ yard runs of ANY player in the NFL! That's not just "he got lucky" stuff, that's serious running ability. He DID improve as the year went on, too. In the last game of the season, he threw for 3 touchdowns and ran for two more. You can discount the idea of the words "produced TDs" if you wish, but any time a QB accounts for five scores in one game -- especially with as piss poor a supporting cast as Allen had last year -- it's a good day.

Anyway, like I said to previous posters: We'll find out for sure soon enough. I'd currently rank Allen behind Mayfield and Darnold in terms of his progression and his current effectiveness as a quarterback. HOWEVER, I feel that he has a higher ceiling than either of them due to his athletic ability. There's no guarantee he ever reaches that ceiling, but Bills fans have seen enough encouraging signs between the second half of last year, the offseason, and the preseason thus far to think that Allen's floor is much higher than analytics Twitter would have us believe. Here's a great article on exactly what I'm talking about, written by a guy who once called Allen "A parody of an NFL quarterback prospect":

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2850542-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-starting-to-prove-doubters-and-haters-wrong.amp.html
 

 

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Hi and welcome. 

"Produced as many TDs," is kind of misleading. Darnold threw for 17 while Allen and his big arm threw 10. Allen is far and away the best athlete of the QBs drafted in the first round last year, but he probably also has the longest way to go as a passer. You say he threw fewer interceptions, but that was simply a function of fewer attempts - his int% was higher than Darnold's. The only passing stat I could find where Allen was better than Darnold is yards/comp, which he wins 12.3 to 12. Sam had the higher comp%, TD%, more ypa, nearly 50 more yards/game. Sam also came on strong as a passer to finish the year, while Josh's improvement was tied more to running the football. Against the Jets last year, for instance, he rushed for over 100 yards, but was 0:2 in his TD: int ratio. 

Lamar Jackson says hello. 

[JoshAllenSZN]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Fair hopes. The Jets CBs are very shaky, and the hope for Jet fans is that Josh Allen continues to struggle with his accuracy against them. The Jets are pretty deep at LB and on the DL, and should be able to scheme out of the loss of a couple LBs by playing more 4-3 and/or three safety looks, big nickel, etc. I think for the Jets, the loss of Chris Herndon at TE is a much bigger blow than both LBs combined. 

How has Roberts looked this preseason? I remember the Jets letting another electric return specialist and offensive weapon leave and do nothing with the Bills - Brad Smith. The Jets kicking game has been disastrous, but the return game doesn't look too bad. One area of consistency with the Jets coaching staff is the return of Brant Boyer as the ST coach. 

Roberts has looked good as a returner, as expected. What has surprised Bills fans and reporters alike is the degree to which he has contributed on offense. Just about NO ONE expected him to contribute in that department whatsoever. And don't get me wrong, I'm not foolish enough to think that he's going to be a truly dangerous receiving threat...I'm just saying it's nice to have a returner who can at least contribute a LITTLE BIT on offense, as many return specialists around the league don't. 

Like I said, I truly believe that having a good return man can swing a game or two a season. That can be the difference between playoffs and no playoffs. The reason I say special teams could swing the Bills-Jets game is because they appear to me to be a pretty even matchup, so it's the little things like home field advantage and big returns that sometimes decide the outcome. As I said, just last year, Roberts DID in fact help swing an outcome in the Jets' favor against Buffalo.

Lastly, I sure do remember Brad Smith. The Bills overpaid him and hyped him up to be some big, dangerous part of their offense. They even built a wildcat package for him. As far as I can recall, he never did a single notable thing in his time in Buffalo. Total waste.

[peebag]

17 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

Starting 4-0? With consecutive wins over the Browns, Patriots, and Eagles?

Is this really what you believe?

He's our resident troll, never mind him.

[JoshAllenSZN]

31 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Lamar Jackson says hello. 

Jackson's SPARQ score was 83.31
Allen's SPARQ score was 96.7

Jackson averaged 4.7 yards rushing last year
Allen averaged 7.1 yards rushing last year

As far as arm alone, it should be undisputed that Allen's is superior.

I'm not saying Jackson isn't an elite athlete. He obviously is. But the notion that he's a superior overall athlete to Josh Allen is not necessarily correct, in my opinion.