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Polite cut


AbstraKt

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First a mea culpa regarding my last post which was political in nature. JetNation is not the appropriate forum to discuss politics and I'm embarrassed I was so thin skinned that I was triggered. It will not happen again.

My second mea culpa is my opinion of Polite, I was 100% dead wrong. The guy is a dog (not a Jamal Adams dawg) just a plain old lazy ass dog and a stupid entitled snowflake. He'll be standing on a street corner drinking 40's in five years.

He was projected to be a mid to late first round selection before a piss poor showing at the Combine and reports of bad interviews and then going public with his grievances about those conversations. He showed up fat and out of shape which he blamed on bad advice and a BS hamstring injury. Reports of red flags while at UF were not true, the coaching staff loved the guy up until he declared for the draft and then two weeks later the negative reports started leaking out. I wrote that off to sour grapes.

I was hoping that his final season at UF where he recorded 11 sacks, 41 total pressures, 17 tackles for loss and six forced fumbles was the guy we lucked into after he fell to the third round. I thought Macc stepped in crap and got lucky for the one and only time during his five years of draining the roster of talent and depth.

Gase was asked about Polite and said he wanted him to play with more of a sense of urgency (a PC way of saying Polite is lazy) and follow the defensive coordinator’s plan better. “At that position, the way we play it the big thing for us is setting the edge, making sure we're doing a good job in the run game,” Gase said "sometimes we get him running around the quarterback and that's what we want to avoid doing." I'll bet that pissed off Gregg Williams to no end.

Finally, there were reports of repeated instances of tardiness to meetings, including the day after the preseason finale. I read that after he was cut and it was the first time I'd heard it reported. What kind of a moron starts a new job and shows up with an attitude? Repeatedly late to meetings? Not following instructions? As the new guy with a horrid combine performance he needed to prove himself, that means he shows up 10 minutes early to meetings/practices and spends the previous night studying notes from prior meetings so he's prepared to answer questions and follow instructions from the CS.

Good move by Douglas, Gase and Gregg Williams.

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15 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

So you think dudes watching YouTube videos know more than professional NFL front office personnel. Who have ALSO been watching football for 20-40 years with intimately MORE access.

Sounds legit. 

Then please explain how we get it right more often than the Jets do? It's not like we're hiding our history of projections and some of us dig deep.  

You apparently have none, at least none that I have read. For someone that criticizes as much as you do, you would think there would be a post from you before the picks were made laying your balls on the line. 

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11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

why are you so worked up? I missed to the start to this whole thing, but philosophically, you have far more in common with the people in this thread, than not. You're supposed to one of the good guys, man. 

And you're wrong about your portrayal of the draft nerds here. This is a different day and age. You can get access to all-22 coaches film, integrate into a group of online media scouts that do draft work for various sites - whom have far more insight that you get from magazines... I literally emailed a college head coach and got full game tapes sent to me this spring.

While you're right, we don't have the fulsome picture a team gets (especially with character stuff like interviews and chalk talk), you don't always need it. Read the book BLINK by Gladwell. People are capable of making incredibly accurate assessments without paralysis by analysis. 

There are definitely people here, myself included, who would have drafted circles around our last 2-3 GMs 

Not worked up, just think it’s comical that dudes here think they could guess their way to better drafts than real GMs. 

Maybe 2-3 guys could have outwitted 100 GMs over the last 10 drafts but it’s happenstance. 

We’re reading magazines and reading blogs and looking at tapes created by guys that know better than us. 

We’re basing our opinions on the opinions of others. 

Nobody should be fooling themselves that they know better.

They MIGHT have guessed better once or twice but not over time. 

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2 minutes ago, RobR said:

Then please explain how we get it right more often than the Jets do? It's not like we're hiding our history of projections and some of us dig deep.  

You apparently have none, at least none that I have read. For someone that criticizes as much as you do, you would think there would be a post from you before the picks were made laying your balls on the line. 

You’re “laying your balls on the line”?

Hahahahaaaa. 

When you’re sitting in that GM chair and your livelihood depends on it, you may have different thoughts.  

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14 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Where did I say "know more?"

I am simply disputing your contention that YouTube guy knows nothing and that his evaluation should be dismissed as useless with a laugh.  Which is basically what you are saying.

I am telling you that YouTube guy is correct too often to be ignored.

I never said YouTube guys know nothing. 

I watch a lot of college ball.

I’m not so full of myself that I think I know more than real pros. 

Regardless of how often they miss. 

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1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

You’re “laying your balls on the line”?

Hahahahaaaa. 

When you’re sitting in that GM chair and your livelihood depends on it, you may have different thoughts.  

When have you done it once?

You still didn't answer the question.

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20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Full game tapes. From the Coach. 

Do you talk to the coaches?

Get their views on the tape?

Did he have an issue the week in practice before the game? An ankle? A bad class? Family issue?

Or did you just watch tape. 

With no context. 

Not debating your ability to look at talent but nobody here has the full picture like real professional scouts GMs front office personnel.

We may think we do but we don’t  

 

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6 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Yeah. You are. 

Then you obviously have me confused with a different poster. It;s hard since I've only posted under the same avatar and name for the last 15 years, but I understand if it escapes you. 

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1 minute ago, RobR said:

When have you done it once?

You still didn't answer the question.

Lol that red herring. 

You know what you’ve been given, no more no less. 

You’re not a pro. You’re a good guesser.

I guessed massively right on Sam 3 years ago.

Does that make me an expert? 

Nope. Just a fan with a good guess.  

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2 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Have you ever talked to a guy that works on the Football side of an NFL organization? Not exactly rocket scientists. Seriously. Watch Hard Knocks. These guys are like overpaid PE teachers. LOL. Phil Savage looks like he eats with his hands, and Dave Gettleman should be selling used cars somewhere, but in the NFL if you know the right people,  stick with established conventions,  and follow the groupthink in the room, you can have a nice long career and build a resume that keeps you employed.

 

Mike MacCagnan worked in the NFL for 3 decades. How did that work out for us?

 

Mike Tannenbaum was an intern for a minor league baseball team,  and somehow got a job as an intern/assistant to Mike Lombardi (another clown). His first paying job in the NFL was with the Jets, he got hired because he knew people that knew Parcells, and he was a brand new law school grad that was hired to review contracts. LOL. That was his great experience and expertise.  He got promoted to GM because he was there, probably kissed Woody's ass, and did what he was told. 

This sh*t isn't Neurobiology. These guys aren't Werner Von Braun in a lab, they're "dese and dose guys" giving opinions, and they are TERRIFIED of analytics and Sparq and things that are bringing modern analytics and scientific techniques to the field because they're STUPID, blue collar guys watching games. Just like us. Haha

 

Jake Locker got drafted at 10th overall.

Ted Ginn was drafted 9th.

Tom Brady went in the 6th round

The Jets list of draft blunders is a 40 year trail of tears. 

And guys who watch the games, like watching footage and player breakdowns, and know the game and have been studying it for decades actually do have a lot of insight into players, we just don't have the connections or family ties to get hired into the insular world of the NFL. 

 

Dont shortchange yourself.  

So you think guys here could do better. 

But are working NOT in the NFL. 

You’ve got me. 

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4 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Not worked up, just think it’s comical that dudes here think they could guess their way to better drafts than real GMs. 

Maybe 2-3 guys could have outwitted 100 GMs over the last 10 drafts but it’s happenstance. 

We’re reading magazines and reading blogs and looking at tapes created by guys that know better than us. 

We’re basing our opinions on the opinions of others. 

Nobody should be fooling themselves that they know better.

They MIGHT have guessed better once or twice but not over time. 

that's just not accurate dude.

Those guys (the profile you're referring to) DO exist, believe me i know, but there is "other" groups/profiles of people who know what they're talking about. Obviously you didn't know that demographic exists - which is fine, but stop digging yourself a hole here. 

Just last season, i must talked have to a dozen NFL prospects on Twitter, and couple dozen draft scouts.... hell i'm friends with Titus Howard, drafted in the 1st by HOU. I talked to coaches, and everything in between if i can. I get my hands on coaches film, the same stuff Teams have their scouting department request. I was on a podcast in Alabama. the list goes on and on.... and i'm nothing special.

But as others have eluded, if you went off my boards, or let me turn in the cards, i would have faired far, far better than our proverbial leaders. 

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2 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Lol that red herring. 

You know what you’ve been given, no more no less. 

You’re not a pro. You’re a good guesser.

I guessed massively right on Sam 3 years ago.

Does that make me an expert? 

Nope. Just a fan with a good guess.  

You're talking about one player who was drafted in the top 5. I'm talking about hundreds of players that get drafted throughout the draft.

You're out of your element but you keep on pushing. Peace out Frog

 

giphy.gif

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7 minutes ago, RobR said:

I've only posted under the same avatar and name for the last 15 years, but I understand if it escapes you. 

What escapes me is after 15 years of expertise you still don’t work for an NFL team. 

Me, I’m just a fan. Don’t hold myself out for anything more than that.

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10 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Have you ever talked to a guy that works on the Football side of an NFL organization? Not exactly rocket scientists. Seriously. Watch Hard Knocks. These guys are like overpaid PE teachers. LOL. Phil Savage looks like he eats with his hands, and Dave Gettleman should be selling used cars somewhere, but in the NFL if you know the right people,  stick with established conventions,  and follow the groupthink in the room, you can have a nice long career and build a resume that keeps you employed.

 

Mike MacCagnan worked in the NFL for 3 decades. How did that work out for us?

 

Mike Tannenbaum was an intern for a minor league baseball team,  and somehow got a job as an intern/assistant to Mike Lombardi (another clown). His first paying job in the NFL was with the Jets, he got hired because he knew people that knew Parcells, and he was a brand new law school grad that was hired to review contracts. LOL. That was his great experience and expertise.  He got promoted to GM because he was there, probably kissed Woody's ass, and did what he was told. 

This sh*t isn't Neurobiology. These guys aren't Werner Von Braun in a lab, they're "dese and dose guys" giving opinions, and they are TERRIFIED of analytics and Sparq and things that are bringing modern analytics and scientific techniques to the field because they're STUPID, blue collar guys watching games. Just like us. Haha

 

Jake Locker got drafted at 10th overall.

Ted Ginn was drafted 9th.

Tom Brady went in the 6th round

The Jets list of draft blunders is a 40 year trail of tears. 

And guys who watch the games, like watching footage and player breakdowns, and know the game and have been studying it for decades actually do have a lot of insight into players, we just don't have the connections or family ties to get hired into the insular world of the NFL. 

 

Dont shortchange yourself.  

Some exec talked MIN into taking Ponder in the 1st.

Scratch that. Our Jets took Hackenberg in the 2nd round... 

 

Any sense that these guys are "light years above and beyond" tape grinders, needs to be thrown out with the bath water. 

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1 minute ago, RobR said:

You're talking about one player who was drafted in the top 5. I'm talking about hundreds of players that get drafted throughout the draft.

You're out of your element but you keep on pushing. Peace out Frog

 

giphy.gif

95% of the players drafted after round 1 you’ve never heard of until you got your Street and Smith. 

But you stay classy. 

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4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

that's just not accurate dude.

Those guys (the profile you're referring to) DO exist, believe me i know, but there is "other" groups/profiles of people who know what they're talking about. Obviously you didn't know that demographic exists - which is fine, but stop digging yourself a hole here. 

Just last season, i must talked have to a dozen NFL prospects on Twitter, and couple dozen draft scouts.... hell i'm friends with Titus Howard, drafted in the 1st by HOU. I talked to coaches, and everything in between if i can. I get my hands on coaches film, the same stuff Teams have their scouting department request. I was on a podcast in Alabama. the list goes on and on.... and i'm nothing special.

But as others have eluded, if you went off my boards, or let me turn in the cards, i would have faired far, far better than our proverbial leaders. 

I’m glad you think that. 

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2 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Me, I’m just a fan. Don’t hold myself out for anything more than that.

Then why post in threads like this over and over? You play the Manish card so you can waver on both sides of the ball so you can feel good about one of your projections. We already know what you think of the Polite pick, maybe give us some thoughts on the Edoga pick.

If you don't think some posters could draft better than our last two GM's then I'm done. Believe it or not but #armchair GM's have been doing much better then the likes of what Jets have hired.

Why is that? It's not like we're hiding behind players that we both liked and disliked. Years of MB projections out there, yet I can't find one from you.

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Just now, RobR said:

Then why post in threads like this over and over? You play the Manish card so you can waver on both sides of the ball so you can feel good about one of your projections. We already know what you think of the Polite pick, maybe give us some thoughts on the Edoga pick.

If you don't think some posters could draft better than our last two GM's then I'm done. Believe it or not but #armchair GM's have been doing much better then the likes of what Jets have hired.

Why is that? It's not like we're hiding behind players that we both liked and disliked. Years of MB projections out there, yet I can't find one from you.

Manish? 

What does that even mean?

I get it, you think you’re a draft guru. 

But you’re toiling on a Jet fan board for 15 years when you could be building a franchise. 

You’re just a fan. Guessing like the rest of us. 

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1 minute ago, RobR said:

Some prebanned troll. 

Btw, why do you care what I think of your draft prowess?

I’m an internet stranger. 

I think you, like everyone else here, is just an arm chair GM. 

Why does that offend you? 

Because you think you’re a real GM? Or possess real GM talents?

I don’t think you do but there is no reason to get your panties in a bunch because a stranger doubts you.

You should go live your dreams. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Lol that red herring. 

You know what you’ve been given, no more no less. 

You’re not a pro. You’re a good guesser.

I guessed massively right on Sam 3 years ago.

Does that make me an expert? 

Nope. Just a fan with a good guess.  

I wanted Sam the night I watched that Rose Bowl. So did anyone with a Brain that has watched Football more than a bit. Not a reach. I'll stick with the Jets for brevity and because that's why we're here, but:

But why did I know that Vlad Ducasse was a wasted pick the second it was made, articulated here why, and I was right, but the entirety of the Jets organization was wrong? 

Gholston, same thing.

Calvin Pryor, I RIPPED that pick immediately.  Got sh*t on here from some guys, but I was right. Why was I right, but the Jets FO, scouts, and coaching staff so wrong, after all, they're the "Pros", and I'm just some guy.

Anthony Schlegel. Really? WTF?

Brady over Sapp?

O'Brien over Marino.

Derek Pagel.

Scott Frost.

Dave Yovanovitz? LOL.

Polite over Winovitch, McGovern, or Deiter was just abject stupidity. Not as bad as D'Rob over Ty Warren, Kevin Williams or Terrell Suggs in '03 (Which I screamed about at the old JI board that day), but pretty poor drafting.

The Idzik 12, which is now, 5 short years later, down to the Idzik 1 (Enunwa)...

It goes on and on, for almost every team.

Hell, I'll say it here now, Quinnen William's is a good kid, and will be a good player, but taking an interior Defensive Lineman with an edge rusher with amazing production and elite measurables on the board was not the right move. 

It's a pattern that has repeated itself to the point of being proven to be beyond anecdotal. And as much as I respect you as a poster, I think you're a bit off base here. And RobR knows his sh*t. Great insight on players,  especially O Line. 

You have an opinion. Good. But now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. You made your point. I think you are wrong, and tried to provide a little data on WHY I think you're incorrect, but I'm not going to attack you over it because you're a good poster and seem like a good guy. I think Rob and others who really do deep dives into player/personnel stuff on their own time, and know College Ball and the game should be thanked for their contributions, not sh*t on. And yes, I do firmly believe 70% of the non business side employees of the NFL are dummies, sycophants, products of nepotism, and really arent the brightest bulbs around. I'm just a dumb old Fireman, but I make a sh*tload more than an area or regional scout, so why would I do that? Plus, I have no personal connections to any FO anymore, so I wouldn't have a chance,  anyway, unless it was as an unpaid intern. LOL hell, all of these guys that are scouts, player personnel/FO assistants, interns, etc, all of them have delusions of one day being a GM or Coach making 7 figures, and the way to do that, to climb the ranks and stay employed is to do what youre told, reinforce your superiors biases, and play it safe. And the guys who actually managed to finish College have degrees in Kinesiology or PE. Let's not confuse them with doctors, engineers, etc. 

 

Just my .02

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I wanted Sam the night I watched that Rose Bowl. So did anyone with a Brain that has watched Football more than a bit. Not a reach. I'll stick with the Jets for brevity and because that's why we're here, but:

But why did I know that Vlad Ducasse was a wasted pick the second it was made, articulated here why, and I was right, but the entirety of the Jets organization was wrong? 

Gholston, same thing.

Calvin Pryor, I RIPPED that pick immediately.  Got sh*t on here from some guys, but I was right. Why was I right, but the Jets FO, scouts, and coaching staff so wrong, after all, they're the "Pros", and I'm just some guy.

Anthony Schlegel. Really? WTF?

Brady over Sapp?

O'Brien over Marino.

Derek Pagel.

Scott Frost.

You're dropping some bombs tonight hey? Big posts...

What you're describing there, is exactly what i said about being able to make accurate assessments with limited amounts of info. I referred to the book BLINK by M Gladwell -- the whole thing is about how incredibly adept Humans are at making accurate judgments based on very little info... blink of an eye, so to speak. It's translates immensely to this field. Great read too, highly recommended. 

9780316057905.jpg

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8 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Btw, why do you care what I think of your draft prowess?

I’m an internet stranger. 

I think you, like everyone else here, is just an arm chair GM. 

Why does that offend you? 

Because you think you’re a real GM? Or possess real GM talents?

I don’t think you do but there is no reason to get your panties in a bunch because a stranger doubts you.

You should go live your dreams. 

 

Still waiting for your one hot take about a prospect before he was drafted.

 

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13 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I wanted Sam the night I watched that Rose Bowl. So did anyone with a Brain that has watched Football more than a bit. Not a reach. I'll stick with the Jets for brevity and because that's why we're here, but:

But why did I know that Vlad Ducasse was a wasted pick the second it was made, articulated here why, and I was right, but the entirety of the Jets organization was wrong? 

Gholston, same thing.

Calvin Pryor, I RIPPED that pick immediately.  Got sh*t on here from some guys, but I was right. Why was I right, but the Jets FO, scouts, and coaching staff so wrong, after all, they're the "Pros", and I'm just some guy.

Anthony Schlegel. Really? WTF?

Brady over Sapp?

O'Brien over Marino.

Derek Pagel.

Scott Frost.

Dave Yovanovitz? LOL.

Polite over Winovitch, McGovern, or Deiter was just abject stupidity. Not as bad as D'Rob over Ty Warren, Kevin Williams or Terrell Suggs in '03 (Which I screamed about at the old JI board that day), but pretty poor drafting.

The Idzik 12, which is now, 5 short years later, down to the Idzik 1 (Enunwa)...

It goes on and on, for almost every team.

Hell, I'll say it here now, Quinnen William's is a good kid, and will be a good player, but taking an interior Defensive Lineman with an edge rusher with amazing production and elite measurables on the board was not the right move. 

It's a pattern that has repeated itself to the point of being proven to be beyond anecdotal. And as much as I respect you as a poster, I think you're a bit off base here. And RobR knows his sh*t. Great insight on players,  especially O Line. 

You have an opinion. Good. But now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. You made your point. I think you are wrong, and tried to provide a little data on WHY I think you're incorrect, but I'm not going to attack you over it because you're a good poster and seem like a good guy. I think Rob and others who really do deep dives into player/personnel stuff on their own time, and know College Ball and the game should be thanked for their contributions, not sh*t on. And yes, I do firmly believe 70% of the non business side employees of the NFL are dummies, sycophants, products of nepotism, and really arent the brightest bulbs around. I'm just a dumb old Fireman, but I make a sh*tload more than an area or regional scout, so why would I do that? Plus, I have no personal connections to any FO anymore, so I wouldn't have a chance,  anyway, unless it was as an unpaid intern. LOL hell, all of these guys that are scouts, player personnel/FO assistants, interns, etc, all of them have delusions of one day being a GM or Coach making 7 figures, and the way to do that, to climb the ranks and stay employed is to do what youre told, reinforce your superiors biases, and play it safe. And the guys who actually managed to finish College have degrees in Kinesiology or PE. Let's not confuse them with doctors, engineers, etc. 

 

Just my .02

 

 

I argue to argue when I think the opposite side is wrong. 

The Jets have been an horrific team in drafting.

But you’ve listed the all time busts. 

That’s easy stuff. 

But you can’t have a “pattern” with 10 different front offices and then compare the pick of Ken O’Brien to Polite. 

Unless it’s just a SOJ lament. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You're dropping some bombs tonight hey? Big posts...

What you're describing there, is exactly what i said about being able to make accurate assessments with limited amounts of info. I referred to the book BLINK by M Gladwell -- the whole thing is about how incredibly adept Humans are at making accurate judgments based on very little info... blink of an eye, so to speak. It's translates immensely to this field. Great read too, highly recommended. 

9780316057905.jpg

Are you still buying those rounds? LOL.

 

Sounds interesting...I recently read a lot about Crew Resource Management, which was developed by NASA and the NTSB after several air disasters in the 1970s. Interesting. One of the most important aspects of Mistake avoidance, entrapment, and mitigation is the aspect of immediate feedback from all crew members during stress situations,  in order to have valid input from all members. Compare that with Coffee Boy minimizing input from his coaching staff. That is total failure and a perfect pathway for error. 

I'm just glad that for the first time in almost 20 years, I have faith in the guys making the decisions for the Jets. And here's the REAL "dirty little secret" about player selections and the draft...its ALL conjecture until you see the guy play at the NFL level. No matter how much info you gather.  There are very few true "Cant miss" guys,  and they tend to be OL, but even that seems to be going by the wayside as College Football Linemen are simply not being taught how to be a lineman at the NFL level (Wisconsin, MSU, ND, and a couple of other places being exceptions). Zone read, spread offenses with linemen not even in a 3 point stance is the norm now. But I digress...

The real problem is that you just dont know how good a guy will be in the NFL, how much he wants to perfect his craft, or the character of a young man. What scouts and teams should really be digging into are physical traits and abilities, as well as APTITUDE.  But sometimes it's easy. Calvin Pryor was a slow run support safety who was suited to a style of play that was simply obsolete in the NFL by 15 years. Watching Ducasse at UMASS was hilarious, because it was clear he simply did not understand the game he was playing and was just taught "Push man in front of you". LOL. Polite was toxic, and he did it to himself. Zero accountability or desire. Sad. But at least he got a College Degree and some $$ out of it. 

 

Anyway, I respect you and Rob (and several others here) and your insights into the draft beyond the simple "fan" level ("Player X is awesome because the Jets drafted him, and anyone that says different is just SOJ" lol), so I figured I'd jump in. 

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33 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I argue to argue when I think the opposite side is wrong. 

The Jets have been an horrific team in drafting.

But you’ve listed the all time busts. 

That’s easy stuff. 

But you can’t have a “pattern” with 10 different front offices and then compare the pick of Ken O’Brien to Polite. 

Unless it’s just a SOJ lament. 

 

Vlad Ducasse, Yovanovitz, Schlegel, Pagel, Frost, McKnight, McDougle.... All time busts? Really?

I could go on and on. Those are all guys that I (and others) knew immediately were just completely wasted, thrown away picks. I could make the case about every team in the league making blunder after blunder, and the fact that guys here could ABSOLUTELY do better than many of the piss poor employees of NFL teams making terrible decisions. But you've chosen a hill to die on, and I feel no further obligation to go back in time and analyze 30 years of personnel decisions that I and others immediately stated were poor decisions and format them into a spreadsheet with citations for you. LOL.

By your logic here, none of us should criticize government either because they're the "Pros", and we're just armchair whatevers. Right? They have more information  than us! Or how dare we question or criticize media and journalists because they are, after all, the "Pros" with more information than us....

Go to a preseason game, or visit the Senior Bowl some time. Go meet those "informed" geniuses working for the NFL. I suggest going early, before they're all drunk at the hotel bar. And dont mind the mustard and nacho stains on their shirts....

 

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