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I have to say I'm not only surprised, but definitely think this is a bad move.

I understand sunk cost fallacy, but he looked like a legit talent at Florida. I don't understand cutting him based on one bad off-season where he didn't look good at all. For a team that lacks pass rush, it would have been better to stash him and hope he regains some form from Florida.

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6 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Vlad Ducasse, Yovanovitz, Schlegel, Pagel, Frost, McKnight, McDougle.... All time busts? Really?

I could go on and on. Those are all guys that I (and others) knew immediately were just completely wasted, thrown away picks. I could make the case about every team in the league making blunder after blunder, and the fact that guys here could ABSOLUTELY do better than many of the piss poor employees of NFL teams making terrible decisions. But you've chosen a hill to die on, and I feel no further obligation to go back in time and analyze 30 years of personnel decisions that I and others immediately stated were poor decisions and format them into a spreadsheet with citations for you. LOL.

By your logic here, none of us should criticize government either because they're the "Pros", and we're just armchair whatevers. Right? They have more information  than us! Or how dare we question or criticize media and journalists because they are, after all, the "Pros" with more information than us....

Go to a preseason game, or visit the Senior Bowl some time. Go meet those "informed" geniuses working for the NFL. I suggest going early, before they're all drunk at the hotel bar. And dont mind the mustard and nacho stains on there shirts....then again, don't. It would cause you to reevaluate your opinion. Can't have that...

 

No one respects his opinion because he's just another troll that never expresses his opinion or responds to a pertinent question. He's only critical of others, while never giving his own opinion which is the definition of a fraudster.  He just goes round and round and will never answer a simple question.

These certain types of posters are so pathetic I wonder why they put it out there. I almost feel sorry for them at times....keyword "almost".

Could you imagine a life based as a Troll on a jets board.....that;s some patsfantx level sh*t. 

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5 minutes ago, RobR said:

No one respects his opinion because he's just another troll that never expresses his opinion or responds to a pertinent question. He's only critical of others, while never giving his own opinion which is the definition of a fraudster.  He just goes round and round and will never answer a simple question.

These certain types of posters are so pathetic I wonder why they put it out there. I almost feel sorry for them at times....keyword "almost".

Could you imagine a life based as a Troll on a jets board.....that;s some patsfantx level sh*t. 

There are many here who fit that description.  I'm withholding my personal judgment on PF because most of my interactions with him have been positive, but reading through this thread,  I get it. What's the worst is that for no reason, hes chosen to pick fights with some of the better, more insightful posters here for no reason. I get into it with a few guys, but those guys are the ones who are CLEARLY not really Jets Fans, or are here to tear guys down for no reason. Dont get why PF is so adamant about this. If he doesn't respect an opinion, then just dont read it. Hes tearing down people here for what, to protect the integrity of great minds and true professionals like Charlie Casserly, Dave Gettleman, Mike McCagnan, Dan Snyder, Mike Tannenbaum, etc? LOL. 

 

Keep doing what you do,  Rob. Some of us appreciate a resource like you. Cheers.

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23 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I have to say I'm not only surprised, but definitely think this is a bad move.

I understand sunk cost fallacy, but he looked like a legit talent at Florida. I don't understand cutting him based on one bad off-season where he didn't look good at all. For a team that lacks pass rush, it would have been better to stash him and hope he regains some form from Florida.
 

1. Never reinforce failure.

2. Allocate resources appropriately 

3. Dont practice negative retention.  

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1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Are you still buying those rounds? LOL.

Sounds interesting...I recently read a lot about Crew Resource Management, which was developed by NASA and the NTSB after several air disasters in the 1970s. Interesting. One of the most important aspects of Mistake avoidance, entrapment, and mitigation is the aspect of immediate feedback from all crew members during stress situations,  in order to have valid input from all members. Compare that with Coffee Boy minimizing input from his coaching staff. That is total failure and a perfect pathway for error. 

 

Anyway, I respect you and Rob (and several others here) and your insights into the draft beyond the simple "fan" level ("Player X is awesome because the Jets drafted him, and anyone that says different is just SOJ" lol), so I figured I'd jump in. 

that bolded part is interesting. The same author (Gladwell) has a different book called OUTLIERS that explores some different social psychological postulations, but a section of the book is dedicated to Korean pilots. I guess Korean Airlines had statistically high incidents of accidents/failures/crashes etc - that led to their being essentially banned from flying over certain countries. The problem was (after some investigating) that co-pilots and staff couldn't bring themselves to "correct" or communicate effectively with the head pilots... their culture being so ingrained that you don't fck with the man in charge...  You can decide if that has any resonance here. 

Its all good, man. Beers are on me on the fateful day we're fortunate enough to share oxygen. All my toilings and rantings over prospects has yielded the team nothing -- and me many sleepless nights of thankless conjecture. I can't stop myself from remaining intrigued by prospect developments, but i've reached a point where it's more mentally healthy to just let things play out. 

 

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2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Not worked up, just think it’s comical that dudes here think they could guess their way to better drafts than real GMs. 

Maybe 2-3 guys could have outwitted 100 GMs over the last 10 drafts but it’s happenstance. 

We’re reading magazines and reading blogs and looking at tapes created by guys that know better than us. 

We’re basing our opinions on the opinions of others. 

Nobody should be fooling themselves that they know better.

They MIGHT have guessed better once or twice but not over time. 

Just based off of Maccagnan's whiff ratio, around 95%, draft, trades, re-signing bums for huge dollars, its very safe to say that the NY Jets 2019 Roster would be way stronger and with more depth up and down the line if virtually ANY poster on this site had Maccagnan's job over his tenure.  So spare me how intelligent Front Office guys are (although of course there are some brilliant ones, I think our team might have FINALLY snagged one in Joe Douglas), many actually have their jobs due to nepotism.  Maccagnan must have been a huge back-stabber and a**kisser to get ahead.  There are those to of course.

You want to call Maccagnan an "expert"??, his results dove tailed beautifully with what I thought of him AT FIRST GLANCE (as Paradis cited an outstanding book,"Blink").....a Slob and a Fake (slews of coffee cup props lining his desk as props as though he "burns the midnight oil" always looking to better the team, if that's how you "burn the midnight oil" moron...get some more sleep.

You argue just for the sake of arguing.

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4 hours ago, RobR said:

We finally have a FO that understands football.

That and it now seems everyone is accountable.  You won't have a HC scouring the land to find assistants stupider than he is (not easy to do) because he was in job protection mode from Day 1 as was the GM.

Think about it, those 2 didn't even have the b*lls  to play Hackenberg a single snap in meaningless, garbage time, end of season games, with the entire fan base asking for that.  Why?  Easy answer.

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13 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It does when they play the same position and we drafted the wrong guy.

Actually it doesn't.  If we drafted an all pro DL doesn't if change Winovich?  They're two different players picked separately.  The pick sucked on its own.  Not because of Winovich, who we don't even know what kind of career he will have as of today 

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15 hours ago, Dinamite said:

Also, it is terrible that the Jets had a high 3rd round pick in 2018 and 2019 who have been busts (I think Nathan Shepard is a bust and may be cut at some point).  Those are premium picks that have been wasted.

Our 3rd round picks are becoming our new 2nd round picks.

Btw, this is a very good example as to why we should’ve hired a GM at the beginning of the offseason rather than the end. 

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6 hours ago, RobR said:

Still waiting for your one hot take about a prospect before he was drafted.

 

Save your energy, he is a clown who is not worth responding to.  

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8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

5 potentially awful drafts in a row. 5.

 

Playoff roster!

 

Maybe the standards need reevaluating when ‘some people think they may possibly make the wildcard after having multiple top 10 picks and spending big in free agency’ is a good thing.

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7 hours ago, RobR said:

Then please explain how we get it right more often than the Jets do? It's not like we're hiding our history of projections and some of us dig deep.  

To be fair, "we" don't get it right.  Collectively some percentage of us do get it right quite a bit, but individually.....no, not so much.  Some of us are pretty good, and may even mostly get it right...with nothing on the line and no pressure.  It's different when you're actually responsible.

Even the best of get it wrong often.  Just saying, while I do think some of the best of us might make ok GM's, most of JN, lol, no.  If we GM'd as a committee maybe, lol!

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5 hours ago, win4ever said:

I have to say I'm not only surprised, but definitely think this is a bad move.

I understand sunk cost fallacy, but he looked like a legit talent at Florida. I don't understand cutting him based on one bad off-season where he didn't look good at all. For a team that lacks pass rush, it would have been better to stash him and hope he regains some form from Florida.
 

See the 6:58 mark & that's all you need to know why Polite is gone... 

See the 3:24 mark for more reasons why...

 

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6 hours ago, RobR said:

Then why post in threads like this over and over? You play the Manish card so you can waver on both sides of the ball so you can feel good about one of your projections. We already know what you think of the Polite pick, maybe give us some thoughts on the Edoga pick.

If you don't think some posters could draft better than our last two GM's then I'm done. Believe it or not but #armchair GM's have been doing much better then the likes of what Jets have hired.

Why is that? It's not like we're hiding behind players that we both liked and disliked. Years of MB projections out there, yet I can't find one from you.

If you’d never even heard of football but showed up on draft day with a print out of Mel Kiper’s Big Board and just picked the top name left, you’d have drafted better than Macc.  Why is it hard to believe that someone who actually tries would do better?

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7 minutes ago, jetsons said:

See the 6:58 mark & that's all you need to know why Polite is gone... 

See the 3:24 mark for more reasons why...

 

Good find.  It’s safe to say that Joe Douglas would have never drafted Polite with the 68th overall pick in the draft.  

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11 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Have any of these jokers ever met a college coach or a HS coach or a parent to talk about a prospect?

Anyone ever been on 50-75 college campuses to meet players, coaches, teammates, classmates, local reporters?

Any of these armchair GMs have access to medical reports? The background and personality checks the NFL spends millions on?

No. They buy a draft magazine and watch YouTube videos. 

They aren’t draft gurus no matter how much they fantasize to be. 

Pathetic the hubris.

We’re  all just fans guessing. 

As a D2 parent, I have done some of that. Gives me some -little-insight. But I admit it's not the same as the information a GM and his scouting staff would have.

And the insight I do have is more about life generally than football, if informed by that experience. And that is you have people who emote more than think, that don't look at things with a cold hard edge. Maccagnan was a scout until he got here. He was never a decision maker. He filed his report, and that was it. He never made a pick before. And he never understood the potential a scout sees, the possibility, is not the same as what you have in front of you. He fell in love players and did not look at data. The data on Polite screamed stay away. A scout though still sees potential. 

But even there, the Hackenberg pick was TERRIBLE. You go to camps with your kid, and schools put their best face on. Reality is football teams on campus divide into groups; defense/offense, class year, black/white. But un the day of a recruiting prospect camp, that all goes away. Everyone is positive. But parents of players who went to the PSU camp said that EVERYONE at PSU HATED Hackenberg. Upfront about it, out in the open, our QB is a jerk; unprecedented. If his school is calling this guy a grade A douchebag on top of only 1 good season  and 3 awful ones, wasting a pick on him was  a serious issue that went unaddressed for too long. This GM had no ability to see evaluate players nor positional value. Objectively even if Adams and Maye are players, the 2017 Jets bereft of an offense, nor a pass rush had no business taking 2 safeties at the top of the draft. 

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8 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Not worked up, just think it’s comical that dudes here think they could guess their way to better drafts than real GMs. 

Maybe 2-3 guys could have outwitted 100 GMs over the last 10 drafts but it’s happenstance. 

We’re reading magazines and reading blogs and looking at tapes created by guys that know better than us. 

We’re basing our opinions on the opinions of others. 

Nobody should be fooling themselves that they know better.

They MIGHT have guessed better once or twice but not over time. 

Most of the other NFL has outwitted Jets' GMs for about a decade or so. 

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MacCagnan was the worst kind of brain dead dingbat. If it weren't for John Idzik he would go down as by far and away the very worst GM the Jets have ever had. I'm still pissed he could have taken Chase Winovich.

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9 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Do you talk to the coaches?

Get their views on the tape?

Did he have an issue the week in practice before the game? An ankle? A bad class? Family issue?

Or did you just watch tape. 

With no context. 

Not debating your ability to look at talent but nobody here has the full picture like real professional scouts GMs front office personnel.

We may think we do but we don’t  

 

The guys with the full picture also tend to ignore relevant information that’s available to anyone with an internet connection, so it’s kind of a wash.

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9 hours ago, Paradis said:

why are you so worked up? I missed to the start to this whole thing, but philosophically, you have far more in common with the people in this thread, than not. You're supposed to one of the good guys, man. 

And you're wrong about your portrayal of the draft nerds here. This is a different day and age. You can get access to all-22 coaches film, integrate into a group of online media scouts that do draft work for various sites - whom have far more insight that you get from magazines... I literally emailed a college head coach and got full game tapes sent to me this spring.

While you're right, we don't have the fulsome picture a team gets (especially with character stuff like interviews and chalk talk), you don't always need it. Read the book BLINK by Gladwell. People are capable of making incredibly accurate assessments without paralysis by analysis. 

There are definitely people here, myself included, who would have drafted circles around our last 2-3 GMs 

Hey,  one of these days I need to pester you for some of that access. I've largely respected your take on the draft and count you as one of those guys who knows stuff.  When we're all signing up for the JN draft next year, I'll be up yer Arse a bit.  Especially since you stated you won't be digging in as much anymore.  

I want some of those goods brotha.  lol 

I'm really curious to see how Douglas and company do compared to the way we think this offseason. The Polite situation bothers me, but I have to give them benefit of the doubt at this point.  If he's a shlub who they can't get to show up on time to meetings it's better to get rid of him now than wait 4 years for him to have one good season during his contract year so we can overpay him half a$$ it. 

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8 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Vlad Ducasse, Yovanovitz, Schlegel, Pagel, Frost, McKnight, McDougle.... All time busts? Really?

I could go on and on. Those are all guys that I (and others) knew immediately were just completely wasted, thrown away picks. I could make the case about every team in the league making blunder after blunder, and the fact that guys here could ABSOLUTELY do better than many of the piss poor employees of NFL teams making terrible decisions. But you've chosen a hill to die on, and I feel no further obligation to go back in time and analyze 30 years of personnel decisions that I and others immediately stated were poor decisions and format them into a spreadsheet with citations for you. LOL.

By your logic here, none of us should criticize government either because they're the "Pros", and we're just armchair whatevers. Right? They have more information  than us! Or how dare we question or criticize media and journalists because they are, after all, the "Pros" with more information than us....

Go to a preseason game, or visit the Senior Bowl some time. Go meet those "informed" geniuses working for the NFL. I suggest going early, before they're all drunk at the hotel bar. And dont mind the mustard and nacho stains on their shirts....

 

So you KNEW! All of the bad ones. And you KNEW all of the good ones. Very impressive. Lol. 

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3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

So you KNEW! All of the bad ones. And you KNEW all of the good ones. Very impressive. Lol. 

Ducasse,  McKnight and Schlegel had if not long,  longer than average NFL careers. Frost if nothing else has shown himself to be a bright guy. 

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1 hour ago, Bugg said:

Most of the other NFL has outwitted Jets' GMs for about a decade or so. 

And there are 100 fans on every fan forum in the NFL that think they can do better. 

It’s funny. 

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3 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Ducasse,  McKnight and Schlegel had if not long,  longer than average NFL careers. Frost if nothing else has shown himself to be a bright guy. 

But that other dude KNEW they were all mistake picks. 

Says it’s a “pattern” spanning 40 years and different front offices. 

Compared the drafting of O’Brien over Marino to the drafting of Polite. 

Clearly a pattern there. 

Look, we all HATE picks when they are made and after they don’t work out we gnash our teeth and scream “I TOLD you! I KNEW that was a bad pick”. Until the picks you hated actually turned out ok then crickets. 

It’s the lament of every fan base, every fan, just questing.  

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3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

If you’d never even heard of football but showed up on draft day with a print out of Mel Kiper’s Big Board and just picked the top name left, you’d have drafted better than Macc.  Why is it hard to believe that someone who actually tries would do better?

And some folks here think they are better than Kiper. 

It’s the delusion of a fan. 

 

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

To be fair, "we" don't get it right.  Collectively some percentage of us do get it right quite a bit, but individually.....no, not so much.  Some of us are pretty good, and may even mostly get it right...with nothing on the line and no pressure.  It's different when you're actually responsible.

Even the best of get it wrong often.  Just saying, while I do think some of the best of us might make ok GM's, most of JN, lol, no.  If we GM'd as a committee maybe, lol!

And on top of that, most of the self proclaimed experts have heard of MAYBE 25% of the players drafted and only see MAYBE 20%.

The rest is opinions based on the opinions of others. 

Don’t tell me last November you had CBs from some small school with a 5th round grade. 

Stop. 

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13 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

But that other dude KNEW they were all mistake picks. 

Says it’s a “pattern” spanning 40 years and different front offices. 

Compared the drafting of O’Brien over Marino to the drafting of Polite. 

Clearly a pattern there. 

Look, we all HATE picks when they are made and after they don’t work out we gnash our teeth and scream “I TOLD you! I KNEW that was a bad pick”. Until the picks you hated actually turned out ok then crickets. 

It’s the lament of every fan base, every fan, just questing.  

Suspect our GMs have often done a bad job in the mid and late rounds. But that's not data, not broken down. Would have to  see how many other GMs at that time did better or worse. Didn't like the Ducasse pick since Tannebaum was a UMass alumn and Victor Cruz, signed as a free agent,  was on the same offense. Yet objectively it takes time to develop an OL guy. Cruz had a great start to his career and...that's about it. Ducasse has bounced around a bit, but he has been an OL starter here and several places. That may not be a miss at all, simply a guy not developing here. Not sure if that's a failure of the GM or the coach(s).

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13 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Suspect our GMs have often done a bad job in the mid and late rounds. But that's not data, not broken down. Would have to  see how many other GMs at that time did better or worse. Didn't like the Ducasse pick since Tannebaum was a UMass alumn and Victor Cruz, signed as a free agent,  was on the same offense. Yet objectively it takes time to develop an OL guy. Cruz had a great start to his career and...that's about it. Ducasse has bounced around a bit, but he has been an OL starter here and several places. That may not be a miss at all, simply a guy not developing here. Not sure if that's a failure of the GM or the coach(s).

Agree 100%. 

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Have any of these jokers ever met a college coach or a HS coach or a parent to talk about a prospect?
Anyone ever been on 50-75 college campuses to meet players, coaches, teammates, classmates, local reporters?
Any of these armchair GMs have access to medical reports? The background and personality checks the NFL spends millions on?
No. They buy a draft magazine and watch YouTube videos. 
They aren’t draft gurus no matter how much they fantasize to be. 
Pathetic the hubris.
We’re  all just fans guessing. 


Just curious, if the professionals have access to all of this information and us laymen don’t
How do you explain Macc consistently sucking with his picks?
I’m no expert by any means but I would think with all of the info available to these NFL GMs
a professional GM should be able to hit on half his picks every year.
And by hit I mean a player being on the 53 for 2-3 years after the draft.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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Just now, Randy Rasmussen said:

 


Just curious, if the professionals have access to all of this information and us laymen don’t
How do you explain Macc consistently sucking with his picks?
I’m no expert by any means but I would think with all of the info available to these NFL GMs
a professional GM should be able to hit on half his picks every year.
And by hit I mean a player being on the 53 for 2-3 years after the draft.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Because he sucked at player evaluation?

Pretty sure that’s par for the course for a lot of GMs. Fans league wide are lamenting their GMs draft picks. 

Some are really good but some are awful. And then get fired. 

And they ALL have better info than guys picking up a magazine or watching YouTube. 

Look, I’m not saying some guys don’t have an eye for talent but it’s based mainly off of the opinions of others. Nobody here has scouted 300 plus NCAA players. The obvious ones, sure. But after a certain point it’s all just guessing. 

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/nfl-draft-which-teams-had-the-10-worst-draft-classes-this-century-193503166.html

As much as we think our drafts suck, we’re not tops in worst in the last decade. 

You think we suck look at how bad some Dolphins drafts were. 

Not that this is the definitive look at the draft but they have our worst draft as the 2014 draft. 

There are a LOT of poor drafting teams, worse than us.  

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1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/nfl-draft-which-teams-had-the-10-worst-draft-classes-this-century-193503166.html

As much as we think our drafts suck, we’re not tops in worst in the last decade. 

You think we suck look at how bad some Dolphins drafts were. 

Not that this is the definitive look at the draft but they have our worst draft as the 2014 draft. 

There are a LOT of poor drafting teams, worse than us.  

We should really be comparing the Jets to equal or better teams setting the bar low never helps with success. 

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