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Alka

The philosophy of the Jets organization gives us a hint of why they cut certain players

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Agreed, if Dortch would want to make this team he would have to spend time on the practice squad and hone in on slot WR skills, and not be able to only catch a few passes at the end of preseason games against 4th stringers now on the streets that many of us may also be able to catch passes against.The WR from NE we signed led the nation in punt returns in college and probably has better slot WR potential then Dortch, so it is a better short/long term move.

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1 hour ago, Alka said:

I think our Defensive Coordinator said it best:  The goal is for each defensive player to learn two positions.  When someone goes down, as they inevitably do, it's the next man up.

If Dorch was a great punt returner but is unable to step into the wide receiver role if called upon, then he doesn't live up to the standards that the current Jet organization has set for itself.

If you are listed as a wide receiver and can't contribute as a wide receiver, then let's get someone who can play wide receiver and have them pull their weight on special teams.  Charone Peak is an excellent example of this new philosophy, one which I agree with 100%.

Like they say in New England, if you are a football player, then you are a football player.  None of this specialty stuff which hamstrings an organization, especially when it's time for "next man up", but the "next man up" can't play the position that they were drafted for.

Perhaps I am going out on a limb here, but our new field goal kicker can also punt on an NFL level, and he illustrates the ability to play two positions.

Please don't respond to me regarding Darnold or our long snapper, but I think you get the drift of what I am saying.

It is my feeling that this new philosophy is a winning philosophy, and in the long run will benefit our team and our organization.

Awesome post, very observant. This seems to be the theme, hopefully it’s true. Any decently run organization in any field has their staff able to function in multiple facets and functions. 

Hence, why we’ve been a laughing stock forever. We finally have a man, Joe Douglas who is setting a standard, that clearly needs to be met.

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17 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yeaaaahh but we literally have no one after Crowder so not sure why Deontay was waived.

Berrios baby!  Deontay gone because to the OP’s point, you have to be able to fill multiple roles. Berrios isn’t anything special, but he’s good slot depth with experience who is going to return punts.

For most teams...It’s very hard to be a backup WR and NOT play ST. We’re just not used to that sort of thing because...ya know...Bradway, Tanny, Idzik, Mac, Woody...

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58 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Berrios baby!  Deontay gone because to the OP’s point, you have to be able to fill multiple roles. Berrios isn’t anything special, but he’s good slot depth with experience who is going to return punts.

For most teams...It’s very hard to be a backup WR and NOT play ST. We’re just not used to that sort of thing because...ya know...Bradway, Tanny, Idzik, Mac, Woody...

Meh this sounds like something reasonable to do when you’re 3 years into bulking a program. Burnett was literally the last line of defense on an already super thin WR core.

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3 hours ago, Alka said:

I think our Defensive Coordinator said it best:  The goal is for each defensive player to learn two positions.  When someone goes down, as they inevitably do, it's the next man up.

If Dorch was a great punt returner but is unable to step into the wide receiver role if called upon, then he doesn't live up to the standards that the current Jet organization has set for itself.

If you are listed as a wide receiver and can't contribute as a wide receiver, then let's get someone who can play wide receiver and have them pull their weight on special teams.  Charone Peak is an excellent example of this new philosophy, one which I agree with 100%.

Like they say in New England, if you are a football player, then you are a football player.  None of this specialty stuff which hamstrings an organization, especially when it's time for "next man up", but the "next man up" can't play the position that they were drafted for.

Perhaps I am going out on a limb here, but our new field goal kicker can also punt on an NFL level, and he illustrates the ability to play two positions.

Please don't respond to me regarding Darnold or our long snapper, but I think you get the drift of what I am saying.

It is my feeling that this new philosophy is a winning philosophy, and in the long run will benefit our team and our organization.

In so many words this is EXACTLY what I tried explaining in another thread and MANY posters said I was wrong and argued with me. Based on Greg Dortch getting cut it's obvious that many on this site just don't understand the philosophy of VERSATILITY and more specifically how it's a non-negotiable EXPECTATION of ST players? Just looks like some posters know far less than what they think they do.

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2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

In so many words this is EXACTLY what I tried explaining in another thread and MANY posters said I was wrong and argued with me. Based on Greg Dortch getting cut it's obvious that many on this site just don't understand the philosophy of VERSATILITY and more specifically how it's a non-negotiable EXPECTATION of ST players? Just looks like some posters know far less than what they think they do.

I got to giver you credit, you just wont let your completely wrong opinion go. 

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The hand-wringing and whatnot about Dortch on this board is absurd right now.

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8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Darnold is our back up long snapper.  He learned the skill from Spencer Long.

And our long snapper is also our 3rd string QB

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10 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yeaaaahh but we literally have no one after Crowder so not sure why Deontay was waived.

Deontay was waived because as the 4th/5th wr he was just that, and was not contributing in special teams.  

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10 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yeaaaahh but we literally have no one after Crowder so not sure why Deontay was waived.

Quincy can move inside in pinch

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5 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

The hand-wringing and whatnot about Dortch on this board is absurd right now.

people who know nothing about him but what they see on paper are howling at pros who have been watching him for months.

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26 minutes ago, ljr said:

Think they made a mistake with Dortsh


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Based on what? 7 touches you saw in the pre season?

Reporters? The same ones who said Geno "has all the physical gifts to be a starter in the NFL"

I am never going to lose sleep over the team churning out the #6 WR... Who is under 6ft tall. No matter what his name or story.

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44 minutes ago, jack48 said:

Quincy can move inside in pinch

Plus we have a plethora of RB and TE options that can line up in the slot. And the NE guy we picked up too. 

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6 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I got to giver you credit, you just wont let your completely wrong opinion go. 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

You thinking players make the team to play ST exclusively is not only nonsensical, It exposed you for how little you truly know. Numerous posters claimed that Dortch had his roster spot locked up. I wonder if YOU, and all the rest want to step back those very bold predictions. LMFAO

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6 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

The hand-wringing and whatnot about Dortch on this board is absurd right now.

This

The guy is 5’7 175 and possesses limited upside as a receiver.

He had two nice punt returns in the preseason...but also put the ball on the ground twice.

I wouldn’t have been upset if he made the final roster, but being upset about him not making it is kinda baffling to me.

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1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

This

The guy is 5’7 175 and possesses limited upside as a receiver.

He had two nice punt returns in the preseason...but also put the ball on the ground twice.

I wouldn’t have been upset if he made the final roster, but being upset about him not making it is kinda baffling to me.

Basically he sucked. People are acting like he is Brad Smith

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1 hour ago, ECURB said:

Based on what? 7 touches you saw in the pre season?

Reporters? The same ones who said Geno "has all the physical gifts to be a starter in the NFL"

I am never going to lose sleep over the team churning out the #6 WR... Who is under 6ft tall. No matter what his name or story.

To be fair Geno has the talent... Between the ears is a problem... And the fact he is still in the league

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13 minutes ago, ECURB said:

Basically he sucked. People are acting like he is Brad Smith

Or Leon Washington? I just don't get it. Lol

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Nice observation. This holds for our main guys to. Bell and Ty can play the slot and RB. We literally have like 7 guys that can play the slot. I think we might be ok there. 

Darnold played LB in HS. 

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39 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

This

The guy is 5’7 175 and possesses limited upside as a receiver.

He had two nice punt returns in the preseason...but also put the ball on the ground twice.

I wouldn’t have been upset if he made the final roster, but being upset about him not making it is kinda baffling to me.

Brett Ratliff oin specials.

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3 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

You thinking players make the team to play ST exclusively is not only nonsensical, It exposed you for how little you truly know. Numerous posters claimed that Dortch had his roster spot locked up. I wonder if YOU, and all the rest want to step back those very bold predictions. LMFAO

Dude, if the choice is between someone that will play 95% of his snaps on Special Teams, versus a guy that has similar value on Specials but can be an adequate receiver in 5 Wide sets say then sure the team is going to choose the more versatile guy. In the Dortch/Berrios scenario they saw similar return ability (potential) but more opportunity to contribute as fill in slot so they made that move.

But team DO keep players solely for special teams value ALL THE TIME. If you just refuse to acknowledge that go ahead, you obviously have an axe to grind.

As an example Nick Bellore is still playing in the NFL pretty much solely on the fact he is so valuable on STs. But I wont argue any more, you have 800 posts but like 30 are on this exact topic the last 2 days, so I tip my hat to your conviction.

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14 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Agreed, if Dortch would want to make this team he would have to spend time on the practice squad and hone in on slot WR skills, and not be able to only catch a few passes at the end of preseason games against 4th stringers now on the streets that many of us may also be able to catch passes against.The WR from NE we signed led the nation in punt returns in college and probably has better slot WR potential then Dortch, so it is a better short/long term move.

So I have nothing against Berrios and do think he may have better upside as a slot WR and that is why he was claimed and Dortch was waived. I'm not a scout and in the end I gotta trust the GM on this. However, I'm sure it was a tough call because Dortch IS a capable WR. He had 89 catches for over 1,000yrds in college. 

You sound like he had a choice as to when he would be able to come in and be thrown to in pre-season. He absolutely made the best of the opportunities he was given. 

I'm rooting for Berrios, I hope he is productive as a receiver and returner. But lets not forget, theres a reason he was cut and SEVEN other WRs were kept on the Pats. And its not b/c Berrios was tearing it up in camp and the preseason. Its b/c he was dealing with injuries and struggled. That's my concern. 

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3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Dude, if the choice is between someone that will play 95% of his snaps on Special Teams, versus a guy that has similar value on Specials but can be an adequate receiver in 5 Wide sets say then sure the team is going to choose the more versatile guy. In the Dortch/Berrios scenario they saw similar return ability (potential) but more opportunity to contribute as fill in slot so they made that move.

But team DO keep players solely for special teams value ALL THE TIME. If you just refuse to acknowledge that go ahead, you obviously have an axe to grind.

As an example Nick Bellore is still playing in the NFL pretty much solely on the fact he is so valuable on STs. But I wont argue any more, you have 800 posts but like 30 are on this exact topic the last 2 days, so I tip my hat to your conviction.

Well let me ask you....

How many snaps is that 95% on special teams? What I saw was a guy that showed SOME, not great ability punt returning. I also never saw him contributing in all the other ST plays, JUST punt returning. I also observed him playing against 3rd and 4th stringers on offense and not looking very great? All in all, his versatility just was not there?

And once again I'm not trying to criticize or put you down in any way, but please list all those players that play ST Exclusively? Besides, Kicker, Punter, and a few other game -changing ST players (which Dortch was not), you won't find any. Anyway, thank you for the debate. It's great to discuss what's best for my favorite NFL team.

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8 hours ago, ECURB said:

Based on what? 7 touches you saw in the pre season?

Reporters? The same ones who said Geno "has all the physical gifts to be a starter in the NFL"

I am never going to lose sleep over the team churning out the #6 WR... Who is under 6ft tall. No matter what his name or story.

Based on the 7 touches I saw. Very smooth. Seemed confident and big-play capable. Ok Ok, he's out of Winston-Salem NC, where my mother grew up.

But I agree about not losing sleep. I mean, what team in the NFL goes into the season without a proven returner or kicker. It's just not done!!

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JD will emphasize linemen.  Linemen will get much more of the benefit of the doubt. 

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20 hours ago, Alka said:

I think our Defensive Coordinator said it best:  The goal is for each defensive player to learn two positions.  When someone goes down, as they inevitably do, it's the next man up.

If Dorch was a great punt returner but is unable to step into the wide receiver role if called upon, then he doesn't live up to the standards that the current Jet organization has set for itself.

If you are listed as a wide receiver and can't contribute as a wide receiver, then let's get someone who can play wide receiver and have them pull their weight on special teams.  Charone Peak is an excellent example of this new philosophy, one which I agree with 100%.

Like they say in New England, if you are a football player, then you are a football player.  None of this specialty stuff which hamstrings an organization, especially when it's time for "next man up", but the "next man up" can't play the position that they were drafted for.

Perhaps I am going out on a limb here, but our new field goal kicker can also punt on an NFL level, and he illustrates the ability to play two positions.

Please don't respond to me regarding Darnold or our long snapper, but I think you get the drift of what I am saying.

It is my feeling that this new philosophy is a winning philosophy, and in the long run will benefit our team and our organization.

I saw Herm Edwards speak at The Charlotte Touchdown club.  He spoke to this. He said he HATED the attitude of specialty players. With his charisma and animation he imitated a defensive player and said.. “ I’m a cover corner”.  Herm said... that means CANT TACKLE.  

 

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