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KC Has No Excuses Now

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

For sure, I'm not saying he doesn't have flaws.  But making deep playoff runs throughout his career is nothing to sneeze at.  All games come down to a few key plays and Reid has certainly been out-coached at some crucial times, or made a dumb decision that helped lose the game.  But at least he puts his teams in positions to make deep playoff runs and play in close conference championship games, + 1 super bowl appearance that came down to a one possession game against the cheating Patriots who were likely in the heyday of their cheating ways.   

That doesn't make him a "loser" though.  I can absolutely see him winning a Super Bowl with KC and a lot of that narrative would go away.  

To each their own... I have a different opinion. He has been in this league long enough with enough talent around him to know that he is never going to win the big pressure games at the end of the year. 

I could see Coughlin and the Jags winning the Superbowl with Foles before Reid wins with Maholmes... Maybe Maholmes is good enough to break Reid through his coaching faults but I don't see it.  There is a reason you lose those games year in and year out... 

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

As a WR yes as a babysitter not so much. 

Yea I could see him and Adrian Peterson opening up a "Bad Boys" Day Care together.

 

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

As a WR yes as a babysitter not so much. 

Oh no you didn’t. 

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1 minute ago, peebag said:

Yea I could see him and Adrian Peterson opening up a "Bad Boys" Day Care together.

 

:rl:

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19 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Coach and QB have an effect over the game throughout the year... supplemental skill players like WRs and RBs do not. I am not saying that a great WR or RB doesn't make a team better for clarification... I am saying that the 2 people that need to be winners are your QBs and Coaches... They just have to have it... 

There is a gigantic ocean between “SB champion” and “loser.” And it’s a flawed analysis in any case because it can only be applied after the coach’s or QB’s career is over. It’s nothing but an ex post factor assignation of labels, rendering it a useless exercise in the sense that it offers nothing beyond what is facially obvious.

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23 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Coach and QB have an effect over the game throughout the year... supplemental skill players like WRs and RBs do not. I am not saying that a great WR or RB doesn't make a team better for clarification... I am saying that the 2 people that need to be winners are your QBs and Coaches... They just have to have it... 

 

So Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco and Nick Foles all had "it"?   All winners through and through?

Brian Billick, Jon Gruden, Mike McCarthy and Gary Kubiak had "it" too?  Big-time winners, all of them?   Gruden is 99-93 over his career.  Kubiak 82-75.  

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5 minutes ago, jgb said:

There is a gigantic ocean between “SB champion” and “loser.” And it’s a flawed analysis in any case because it can only be applied after the coach’s or QB’s career is over. It’s nothing but an ex post factor assignation of labels, rendering it a useless exercise in the sense that it offers nothing beyond what is facially obvious.

Did he win the Championship Game? No.... Then he wasn't good enough... Regardless of the players around him... Eli, has flawed as he was/is... showed up to become an MVP of the Superbowl twice... There is something to the fact that when push come to shove its a few plays in a game that make you great... Somehow Manning did it twice... it doesn't matter how he got there. When needed, he took over and won. Some have that trait. Some do not. I do not think Reid has this trait. His teams end up making mistakes for one reason or another and lose. Even if he makes it to another SB... I do not think he can win.

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1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Did he win the Championship Game? No.... Then he wasn't good enough... Regardless of the players around him... Eli, has flawed as he was/is... showed up to become an MVP of the Superbowl twice... There is something to the fact that when push come to shove its a few plays in a game that make you great... Somehow Manning did it twice... it doesn't matter how he got there. When needed, he took over and won. Some have that trait. Some do not. I do not think Reid has this trait. His teams end up making mistakes for one reason or another and lose. Even if he makes it to another SB... I do not think he can win.

Binary thinking is so liberating 

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12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

So Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco and Nick Foles all had "it"?   All winners through and through?

Brian Billick, Jon Gruden, Mike McCarthy and Gary Kubiak had "it" too?  Big-time winners, all of them?   Gruden is 99-93 over his career.  Kubiak 82-75.  

No They didn't, but Joe Gibbs, Parcells, Doug Pederson, and John Harbaugh do... now with Dilfer and Brad Johnson... there are always exceptions...

Look, I understand you don't see it this way and think I am way out of wack.... But, IMO, the greats find a way to win more often then losing when the pressure is on the line and I just feel that Reid is more on the Levy side then the Gibbs or Parcells side.  

This is the exact reason people talk about how great AROD was at baseball... but when it came down to it... he is not a winner... he was carried to championships but he is not a winner... Pressure on the line it was Jeter or someone else to come through.

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14 minutes ago, jgb said:

Binary thinking is so liberating 

its not exactly binary but ok... Again, I am not saying these players are not great and they absolutely deserve all the fame they get... But, the goal of football is not to rack up stats and put up gaudy numbers... The object is to win the Championship... For that, those players for one reason or another could not get it done and others have. 

It takes a toll on the mind to win a championship. Its difficult and it does take some luck but there is also an it factor (or clutch or whatever you want to call it) in some players and not others. I think that this has shown up over and over again.

 

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They didn't have any excuses last year either. Lost championship game at home with allegedly the biggest home  field advantage in the NFL.

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Just now, The Voice of Reason said:

its not exactly binary but ok... Again, I am not saying these players are not great and they absolutely deserve all the fame they get... But, the goal of football is not to rack up stats and put up gaudy numbers... The object is to win the Championship... For that, those players for one reason or another could not get it done and others have. 

It takes a toll on the mind to win a championship. Its difficult and it does take some luck but there is also an it factor (or clutch or whatever you want to call it) in some players and not others. I think that this has shown up over and over again.

 

The types of players that rack up gaudy numbers tend to put your team in position to make deep playoff runs with consistency.  They're not mutually exclusive.  

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The types of players that rack up gaudy numbers tend to put your team in position to make deep playoff runs with consistency.  They're not mutually exclusive.  

Deep playoff runs doesn't mean Championships. Real champions win it all.

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Just now, The Voice of Reason said:

Deep playoff runs doesn't mean Championships. Real champions win it all.

FFS my point is that a Dan Marino type will get your team to the playoffs and give you a shot.  Joe Flacco had one magical postseason run but sucked the rest of his career.  Who would you rather have if you were starting a team?

Again, as jgb pointed out you're living in a world of black and white right now, Mr. Voice of Reason.  

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

For sure, I'm not saying he doesn't have flaws.  But making deep playoff runs throughout his career is nothing to sneeze at.  All games come down to a few key plays and Reid has certainly been out-coached at some crucial times, or made a dumb decision that helped lose the game.  But at least he puts his teams in positions to make deep playoff runs and play in close conference championship games, + 1 super bowl appearance that came down to a one possession game against the cheating Patriots who were likely in the heyday of their cheating ways.   

That doesn't make him a "loser" though.  I can absolutely see him winning a Super Bowl with KC and a lot of that narrative would go away.  

Even every great coach, like every person, has "flaws" for sure. But even if Reid is a great football coach he's simply not a great head coach.

In the end, over a head coaching career 20 years long and counting, he has coached his many talented teams to as many superbowl rings as Herm Edwards, and with exactly 1 more appearance. Moreover, his teams have 2 cumulative playoff victories in the past 10 seasons, and one of them was against that Brian Hoyer/Alfred Blue Texans team that eked into the playoffs themselves with their best player (Watt) playing with 5 torn muscles. 

He's obviously a good offensive coach - one of the best - but he's not an elite head coach. Every year he finds a way to lose in the playoffs (if he makes it that far), and it's not like they typically lose them because of repeated instances of fumbles just as they were about to score, passes that bounce off his receiver into the waiting hands of a DB who runs it back for a TD, his own players who just trip over their own feet, etc. 

To me the 2013 Chiefs are the consummate Reid team. After a 9-0 start they won 11 games and finished top 5-6 in both scoring offense and defense, but most of KC's wins came against teams that won 2-4 games all season. The only "winning" team they team beat was a similar paper tiger in Chip Kelly's Eagles. Then he was blessed with a career playoff game out of Alex Smith, plus 4 turnovers on defense, and despite a late 17-point advantage they still ****ing lost. The only thing missing was the Reid-patented coaching blunder that defined the playoff loss.

He's been more successful than Gase, but I'd rather take a gamble on the champion Gase might be in the right situation, instead of the champion I know Reid is not.

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28 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Its difficult and it does take some luck but there is also an it factor (or clutch or whatever you want to call it) in some players and not others. I think that this has shown up over and over again.

 

We are all 100% accurate at predicting yesterday’s weather. 

Pick which QBs drafted in the last two years based on your ability to detect “it” will and will not win a championship, then I’ll be impressed. We can chat about it over a game of bridge in the retirement home.

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18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

FFS my point is that a Dan Marino type will get your team to the playoffs and give you a shot.  Joe Flacco had one magical postseason run but sucked the rest of his career.  Who would you rather have if you were starting a team?

Again, as jgb pointed out you're living in a world of black and white right now, Mr. Voice of Reason.  

Again you are missing my point. Marino was great, amazing to watch. Nothing against Marino... Of course I would rather of Marino... but in the end I would rather have Flacco's career versus Marino's...

I would rather have David Tyree's career versus Randy Moss. That's just how I feel. Stats and talent are great but unless you win a championship, it doesn't mean as much.

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In more ways than one they have no more excuses....

The Chiefs are a truly great team right now. They're stacked. They have no more excuses losing to the patsies. The Jets still have plenty of excuses for losing to the patsies. The Jets had an insanely idiotic GM. But KC MUST beat the patsies .

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9 hours ago, jgb said:

KC defense isn’t SB ready IMHO

Major changes there.  I think they're better...maybe Top 15, but we'll see.  Let's not forget they'll be relying on Morris Claiborne to some degree.

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Just now, jetstream23 said:

Major changes there.  I think they're better...maybe Top 15, but we'll see.  Let's not forget they'll be relying on Morris Claiborne to some degree.

Not disagreeing because I don’t know. But if KC D is top 15, they should be favorite (which they are).

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11 hours ago, Ghost420 said:

I'd  take Hill all damn day 

How about KHunt? He’d solve our kicking woes at least. 

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1 hour ago, CurtMart said:

How about KHunt? He’d solve our kicking woes at least. 

Good one but we got  Bell id not yes Id take a Hunt also.

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17 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

No They didn't, but Joe Gibbs, Parcells, Doug Pederson, and John Harbaugh do... now with Dilfer and Brad Johnson... there are always exceptions...

Look, I understand you don't see it this way and think I am way out of wack.... But, IMO, the greats find a way to win more often then losing when the pressure is on the line and I just feel that Reid is more on the Levy side then the Gibbs or Parcells side.  

This is the exact reason people talk about how great AROD was at baseball... but when it came down to it... he is not a winner... he was carried to championships but he is not a winner... Pressure on the line it was Jeter or someone else to come through.

2009?

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