What is JD Doing?

[The Voice of Reason]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Ah, so Vegas is the one with bias, not Jets fans, related to the Jets.  Does this extend to all teams/fans?  Or just you?

Like, is that raider guy also right about how dominant the raiders will be?

Meanwhile, if this is a 10-win team, if healthy, what bet would you be willing to make at O/U 9.5?  I'm interested in the under.

PUBLIC LINE.... is 7.5 meaning people are betting over that and under that... I would take the over on 7.5... some would take the under hence why it is a good line to set ... Come on this is not that hard

[genot]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Why settle for a 2nd?   There are 31 other teams in the league.  Let them bid for his services.  I bet they could get a 1st from a contending team who expects to have a late 1st.  

Let Douglas do his job. What the compensation would be, is up to the two teams. If someone offers a late 1st for him. lets up the the offer. Excluding a1st rd pick, as an offer.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

Let Douglas do his job. What the compensation would be, is up to the two teams. If someone offers a late 1st for him. lets up the the offer. Excluding a1st rd pick, as an offer.

Except its not up to the 2 teams.  Its up to the market.  If the Dolphins think they can get a 1st for Howard (which they undoubtedly could, given how few true CB1's there are in the NFL), they wouldn't simply negotiate what they could out of us.  They'd tell other teams "We just got offered a solid 2nd rounder, we want a 1st" from all other teams pursuing Howard.

Since, like I said, Howard is signed thru 2024, there's absolutely no rush for them to move him.  

And if another team offers a 1st.....what could we possibly offer to top that?  A 2nd and a 3rd?  Our 2021 first rounder?  

[genot]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Except its not up to the 2 teams.  Its up to the market.  If the Dolphins think they can get a 1st for Howard (which they undoubtedly could, given how few true CB1's there are in the NFL), they wouldn't simply negotiate what they could out of us.  They'd tell other teams "We just got offered a solid 2nd rounder, we want a 1st" from all other teams pursuing Howard.

Since, like I said, Howard is signed thru 2024, there's absolutely no rush for them to move him.  

Offer a 2nd and 3rd in 2020, and a mid rd pick in 2021. The Dolphins need multiple picks. You want too talk about a pathetic roster. Look at them.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

PUBLIC LINE.... is 7.5 meaning people are betting over that and under that... I would take the over on 7.5... some would take the under hence why it is a good line to set ... Come on this is not that hard

I understand that.  However, if this were a 10-win team, the over would be an easy bet.  And, the results would be lopsided.  Vegas tries to get equal on both sides.  And, the way to do that, is to make a line that's damn close to what public perception of the team is.  If you think it's a 10-win team, you'd also take the over on 9.5.  I'm now asking if you're willing to put down money on that?

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Offer a 2nd and 3rd in 2020, and a mid rd pick in 2021. The Dolphins need multiple picks. You want too talk about a pathetic roster. Look at them.

Even that likely won't be enough.  And I say that's a ridiculous package of picks to bring in a corner for a team that's not a contender.  

Draft a CB of our own.  

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Offer a 2nd and 3rd in 2020, and a mid rd pick in 2021. The Dolphins need multiple picks. You want too talk about a pathetic roster. Look at them.

Even if any of this were a good idea, you do understand that the Jets would have to pay even more to acquire a player within the division, right?

[The Voice of Reason]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I called you out on it because there was no reason for it, Mr. Voice of Reason.  

Because I don't agree with your point that you have to be losers to become a SB champion... Its a terrible way to run a franchise IMO.

[The Voice of Reason]

9 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

If you think a book is going to misprice an NFL season line by two and a half games to square up the action then you're the one who doesnt have the first ******* idea how this stuff actually works.

If you don''t think that Vegas misses 5-10 teams a year by at least +/-2 games YOU are not paying attention.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, The Voice of Reason said:

Because I don't agree with your point that you have to be losers to become a SB champion... Its a terrible way to run a franchise IMO.

That's not what I was arguing at all.  You keep equating my views with this "losers mentality".  It's not.  It's a long-term mentality.

I don't WANT to be a bad team, in the present or future.  But accepting what you are right now and building thru the draft is the ONLY proven way to win a title in this league.  Going after a bunch of band-aids so we'll go 8-8 rather than 6-10?  That's a bad strategy. 

Nothing we're going to find of value right now can be acquired without mortgaging some of your future.  Like @genot is trying to suggest by trading away a big package of picks for a Corner.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

If you don''t think that Vegas misses 5-10 teams a year by at least +/-2 games YOU are not paying attention.

Go bet the over then.  

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Let Douglas do his job. What the compensation would be, is up to the two teams. If someone offers a late 1st for him. lets up the the offer. Excluding a1st rd pick, as an offer.

Agreed.  And his job is to not make panicked decisions just for the sake of making one.  You say let him do his job, then let him do his job.  This team isn’t getting fixed right now.  The players who are here are the players who are here.  It is what is right now.   A good GM knows he needs to draft well and fill in with a free agent here and there.  You can’t build your roster by signing mercenaries from the street and trading draft picks for high salary players.  It’s not sustainable.  Douglas needs an entire offseason to move the needle.  Coach up who is here, evaluate them, and then move onto the draft.  That’s all you can do.  

[The Voice of Reason]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I understand that.  However, if this were a 10-win team, the over would be an easy bet.  And, the results would be lopsided.  Vegas tries to get equal on both sides.  And, the way to do that, is to make a line that's damn close to what public perception of the team is.  If you think it's a 10-win team, you'd also take the over on 9.5.  I'm now asking if you're willing to back put down money on that?

The public doesn't believe this is a 10 win team... half the fan base doesn't believe its a ten win team... but if they win 10 games then they were wrong... if they win 5 games Vegas is also wrong by 2.5 games... 

[The Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Go bet the over then.  

I don't bet as I have discussed with you already.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  And his job is to not make panicked decisions just for the sake of making one.  You say let him do his job, then let him do his job.  This team isn’t getting fixed right now.  The players who are here are the players who are here.  It is what is right now.   A good GM knows he needs to draft well and fill in with a free agent here and there.  You can’t build your roster by signing mercenaries from the street and trading draft picks for high salary players.  It’s not sustainable.  Douglas needs an entire offseason to move the needle.  Coach up who is here, evaluate them, and then move onto the draft.  That’s all you can do.  

 

Exactly.

Sometimes the right moves or trades to make at the moment are no moves.  That doesn't make our GM a loser.  It makes him a steward of his resources.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I don't bet as I have discussed with you already.

And it's good that you don't.  

[The Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's not what I was arguing at all.  You keep equating my views with this "losers mentality".  It's not.  It's a long-term mentality.

I don't WANT to be a bad team, in the present or future.  But accepting what you are right now and building thru the draft is the ONLY proven way to win a title in this league.  Going after a bunch of band-aids so we'll go 8-8 rather than 6-10?  That's a bad strategy. 

Nothing we're going to find of value right now can be acquired without mortgaging some of your future.  Like @genot is trying to suggest by trading away a big package of picks for a Corner.  

Browns, Lions, Jets, Bills, are losers always losers... no matter how high or low they pick. So sure lets lose for another 2 seasons get more draft picks and lose out on the prime years of Darnolds contract... sounds like a great plan.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Exactly.

Sometimes the right moves or trades to make at the moment are no moves.  That doesn't make our GM a loser.  It makes him a steward of his resources.  

My company just signed a new CEO in May. Why haven’t profits gone up 200%? Fire him!!

[genot]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Even if any of this were a good idea, you do understand that the Jets would have to pay even more to acquire a player within the division, right?

Yes. I do. The problem i have with your line of thinking is that the draft is a science of some sort. Douglas could draft a corner in the 1st rd, and he could bust. It's a crap shoot, it always will be. Im not saying the draft isn't the most important part of building a quality roster. The question is how do you look at the defense. Are we multiple players away from a real good d. Or would one or two players of quality complete the roster on defense.

[jgb]

Just now, The Voice of Reason said:

Browns, Lions, Jets, Bills, are losers always losers... no matter how high or low they pick. So sure lets lose for another 2 seasons get more draft picks and lose out on the prime years of Darnolds contract... sounds like a great plan.

Darnold first needs to prove he is a prime player before I start making moves designed to capitalize on the prime years of his contract.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Browns, Lions, Jets, Bills, are losers always losers... no matter how high or low they pick. So sure lets lose for another 2 seasons get more draft picks and lose out on the prime years of Darnolds contract... sounds like a great plan.

Not what I'm saying at all, Mr. Voice of Reason.  You're reading what you want to read.  I'm done with you.  

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, genot said:

Yes. I do. The problem i have with your line of thinking is that the draft is a science of some sort. Douglas could draft a corner in the 1st rd, and he could bust. It's a crap shoot, it always will be.

Since building thru the draft is the only proven method to building a perennial contender and Super Bowl winner, the answer is not to throw up your hands and trade away your draft picks.  It's to try to take the draft and MAKE it as much of a science as you can.  

Hence why analytics have become popular, and the teams that invest resources towards embracing an analytical approach are better at drafting, on average.  SPARQ scores do a pretty good job of predicting who the good pass rushers will be (or at least identifying the ones that definitely WON'T be good, like Jachai Polite).  QBase has done a pretty job of projecting future QB success.  And those are just tools available to the public.  Smart GM's have way more advanced tools at their disposal.

You'll never be able to turn the draft into an exact science.  But you have to try.  Because, again, its the only way to win.  You need young, cheap talent in this league to build around.  The only place to get it?  The draft.  

[kevinc855]

29 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Yes we do. 

So he’s not. 

an undrafted 26 year old cut by 6 teams with a 3-6 kicking record with none more then 35...sounds solid

[The Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not what I'm saying at all, Mr. Voice of Reason.  You're reading what you want to read.  I'm done with you.  

Its exactly what you said... you need to draft better and get more players in here.. the cupboard is bare blah blah blah... Give another offseason or two to get franchise LT, WR, CB, Edge and then compete... Thats what is said EVERY YEAR!!! WHY IS NEXT OFFSEASON DIFFERENT????

[genot]

8 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  And his job is to not make panicked decisions just for the sake of making one.  You say let him do his job, then let him do his job.  This team isn’t getting fixed right now.  The players who are here are the players who are here.  It is what is right now.   A good GM knows he needs to draft well and fill in with a free agent here and there.  You can’t build your roster by signing mercenaries from the street and trading draft picks for high salary players.  It’s not sustainable.  Douglas needs an entire offseason to move the needle.  Coach up who is here, evaluate them, and then move onto the draft.  That’s all you can do.  

We can't let an incompetent field goal kicker, lose games for us. We can't let Darrell Roberts keep getting burned by anybody he's covering. I brought up Howard as someone too consider. Maybe Douglas can come up with something that will tangibly help us this year, and not cost us as much in draft capital????

[genot]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Since building thru the draft is the only proven method to building a perennial contender and Super Bowl winner, the answer is not to throw up your hands and trade away your draft picks.  It's to try to take the draft and MAKE it as much of a science as you can.  

Hence why analytics have become popular, and the teams that invest resources towards embracing an analytical approach are better at drafting, on average.  SPARQ scores do a pretty good job of predicting who the good pass rushers will be (or at least identifying the ones that definitely WON'T be good, like Jachai Polite).  QBase has done a pretty job of projecting future QB success.  And those are just tools available to the public.  Smart GM's have way more advanced tools at their disposal.

You'll never be able to turn the draft into an exact science.  But you have to try.  Because, again, its the only way to win.  You need young, cheap talent in this league to build around.  The only place to get it?  The draft.  

I don't disagree with that. i don't believe i ever have.

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

We can't let an incompetent field goal kicker, lose games for us. We can't let Darrell Roberts keep getting burned by anybody he's covering. I brought up Howard as someone too consider. Maybe Douglas can come up with something that will tangibly help us this year, and not cost us as much in draft capital????

The kicker situation I’ll give blame to Douglas for.  There should have been a better response to that.   But who are these starting caliber CBs that are waiting to signed?  Who, at this point in the season is going improve this roster that much?   Right now the team is pretty much set.  The time to have made upgrades to this roster was in March and April.  You can’t mandate a new GM remake this roster in September.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

I don't disagree with that. i don't believe i ever have.

No, but buy wanting to give up a package of picks to a division rival for a Corner, it seemed rather clear you'd rather overpay for the "known" than let our new GM try to use the draft picks he has effectively.  I inferred from that that you're somewhat under-valuing the next few drafts for this franchise.  Which is understandable, since our previous GM couldn't pick a good player if he tried.  

[Peace Frog]

10 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

an undrafted 26 year old cut by 6 teams with a 3-6 kicking record with none more then 35...sounds solid

That’s not what you asked. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The kicker situation I’ll give blame to Douglas for.  There should have been a better response to that.   But who are these starting caliber CBs that are waiting to signed?  Who, at this point in the season is going improve this roster that much?   Right now the team is pretty much set.  The time to have made upgrades to this roster was in March and April.  You can’t mandate a new GM remake this roster in September.  

Especially when you're a non-contending team.  I think that's where the difference lies in this thread.  The people who thought this was a playoff team are freaking out, expecting Douglas to do something to salvage our playoff chances.  The rest of us KNEW this was about a 7-win team and thus there's no reason to make any panic moves.

Leave the blockbuster midseason trades to people like Jerry Jones.  We're not in that position.  

[More Cowbell]

50 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

AKA- my ignorance can be excused by even more ignorance...   go look up the story ffs....

Why is this a big deal? Do you feel I would not have made the same argument had I know he was retired longer than I thought?

[Losmeister]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

Why is this a big deal? Do you feel I would not have made the same argument had I know he was retired longer than I thought?

no big deal. you just made up some stupid story based on your ignorance, but instead of owning up, doubled down. which is the sign of either a liar, or a fool.

[joewilly12]

Listen Joe Douglas is the GM he can do whatever the hell he wants to. 

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Are you being serious here?

How dare anyone suggest Darnold might not be a franchise QB after just 14 NFL starts.  The thought alone hurts my brain and fragile heart.  Ban-worthy!

Teddy should write on a chalkboard as penance 

Sam I am .....10000 times

[Apache 51]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

So, Joe Douglas has been here three months:

- He was given largely little talent on the OL

- DL that has had 6 picks in the last 4 years, two of which were 1st rounders, and there are STILL issues 

- Multiple picks (including a high first) on safety, and there is STILL issues

-Virtually NO CB's worth anything, one who is in year two of a $72 million contract, so MANY issues

-Below average talent at WR after a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 7th round pick was burned on the position, leaving us with JUST a gunner on ST.

-He did get a hopeful franchise QB to start with.

HOWEVER, he virtually needs to find 2 starting CB's, a #1 WR, more depth at WR, he needs a starting LT and RT, and a solution at C and RG, as well as some developmental players.  He needs 2 pass-rushers, and more depth at S.  He also needs a kicker since we didn't want to pay for one. And he was been left ALL this mess after this years draft and the first of June cuts. 

 

And you are wondering why Joe Douglas hasn't been able to fill all these holes from the scrap heap discarded by other players?

There is just not a big enough SOJ fan meme out there to attach to this....

you deserve this.......