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If Joe Douglas is the GM you guys think he is....


14 in Green

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8 hours ago, CSNY said:

If Joe Douglas goes the route of trading Adams and L Williams I would take those picks and invest them in the offensive line and keeping the defense we have basically intact Since we then will not have a premiere receiver ( but adequate with Herndon)focus heavily on the running game during the 2020 season. This I believe will not hinder Darnolds development and if the Jets can produce a dominant running game it would also help the D by keeping them off the field and controlling the game  If this scenario does occur next year they would be a better than average team that will need to learn how to win close games and by 2021 the Jets should be a bona fide playoff contender 

Agree. Invest in the Oline, not a 3-4 dline. When we went to afccg's it was on a great oline and very good RB. Our dline was more than adequate with the Mike Devito's of the world. 

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3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Jet fans and draft picks.....it’s like vodka and an alcoholic. They feel better If they have More but never get better 

Bingo.

JD is a presumed failure until proven otherwise. Totally fine with trading picks for proven players rather than bellying back up to the craps table.

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9 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Yeah, I guess you're right. You can't trade them all, and like @Paradis said earlier, the cap hits prevent it with newly signed FAs anyway.

I like Adams a lot, but if we could get a 1st round pick for him, I'd trade him. Would you? 

No. There's a very good chance you end up with a player that isn't as good. I can go down through a list of several players the Jets have selected that aren't anywhere near as good as Adams and they're ALL 1st rounders.

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16 hours ago, Untouchable said:

I agree with trading guys like Adams and Leo, but not the others mentioned.

I’m not making this offense anymore of a sh*theap than it already is and handicapping Darnold anymore than he already is.

If Minkah Fitzpatrick can fetch a 1st, so can Adams. He’s the greatest piece of trade bait on the roster at the moment. With Leo I would just take whatever I can get. Guys like Kaufusi and Fatukasi could replace him at a fraction of the cost with no drop off in production.

Giving Douglas two 1st rounders as well as having our 2nd, 3rd and 4th to play with (along with roughly $50+ mill in cap space next offseason) could go a long way towards shoring up the OL and adding a playmaker at wideout.

I don’t think we’re in as bad a situation as many seem to think. A smart, shrewd GM should be able to get this team on the road to playoff contention by next year. Let’s hope Douglas is that guy.

Honestly, I think you would get more than a 1st for him.

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7 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

They didn't work out....

But how is it NOT obvious to those bitching that he is picking guys off the scrap heap? 

I mean seriously, this really shouldn't be an issue, but SOJF have to find something to bitch about.

 

Because the guys he put on this team are directly responsible for losing against the Bill's. 

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Joe just needs to build around Sam, can't burn it down and develop a young FQB, can't trade away good players on offense, learn from Sanchez, watch the tape (he crumbled when players he relied on were gone)

Darnold is not ready to carry a team on his own, if that is the requirement, draft another QB because he will be crushed after 3 years of abuse like his first, that would be silly and a waste

Build the offense, OL first, it can happen in a year see Colts draft after Mac trade, see 2006 Jets draft, if you can trade defense to get picks for the OL, fine but they can't follow fins, they have fitz to abuse and he is getting what he deserves (don't make that mistake again) 

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3 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Joe just needs to build around Sam, can't burn it down and develop a young FQB, can't trade away good players on offense, learn from Sanchez, watch the tape (he crumbled when players he relied on were gone)

Darnold is not ready to carry a team on his own, if that is the requirement, draft another QB because he will be crushed after 3 years of abuse like his first, that would be silly and a waste

Build the offense, OL first, it can happen in a year see Colts draft after Mac trade, see 2006 Jets draft, if you can trade defense to get picks for the OL, fine but they can't follow fins, they have fitz to abuse and he is getting what he deserves (don't make that mistake again) 

Next offseason we have to spend money on the offensive line and draft a WR first round — or even a tight end 

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Because the guys he put on this team are directly responsible for losing against the Bill's. 

Great story....

Can you go and find me a better choice at kicker, even though half this board wanted Vedvik earlier and wanted to trade draft capital to get him?  Then was able to get him for no picks. 

Its not Douglas' fault Vedvik missed the kick.  Its Vedvik.  And he was gone the next day.  Would Mac have cut him the next day?

Seriously guys....I get it.  But this is what happens when you drink Kool-Aid during pre-season, thinking we were going to the playoffs this year.  We start talking about firing a GM who hasn't even finished unpacking his belongings because he didn't fill the 5-6 starter positions needed and about 7-10 depth positions needed (to make us playoff ready), all while picking through the other 31 teams trash.

 

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2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Great story....

Can you go and find me a better choice at kicker, even though half this board wanted Vedvik earlier and wanted to trade draft capital to get him?  Then was able to get him for no picks. 

Its not Douglas' fault Vedvik missed the kick.  Its Vedvik.  And he was gone the next day.  Would Mac have cut him the next day?

Seriously guys....I get it.  But this is what happens when you drink Kool-Aid during pre-season, thinking we were going to the playoffs this year.  We start talking about firing a GM who hasn't even finished unpacking his belongings because he didn't fill the 5-6 starter positions needed and about 7-10 depth positions needed (to make us playoff ready), all while picking through the other 31 teams trash.

 

Ficken was also available.  I didn’t want Vedvik and was scared of him before he literally shat the bed and cost us a win

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7 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Next offseason we have to spend money on the offensive line and draft a WR first round — or even a tight end 

The problem with fixing the OL next year with FA's is many of the good ones are on the really wrong side of 30.  Brandon Scherff would be a great guard pickup, but I doubt Washington lets him go.  Trent Williams would be a great fix now, but to spend a 1st on him AND have to give him a big contract is what continually gets the Jets in trouble.

There will be some RT options, but we literally need an entire starting line.  Kelechi starts at LG, and after that, you hope you might have something in Chuma to either start at RG or RT.  But we definitely need a starting LT and C, and probably a RG and RT as well.  That is realistically not getting all fixed in one year.

7 years of bad drafting in the NFL means many years of sitting in the basement.  Lets see if we can fix that over the next couple of years.

 

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7 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

The problem with fixing the OL next year with FA's is many of the good ones are on the really wrong side of 30.  Brandon Scherff would be a great guard pickup, but I doubt Washington lets him go.  Trent Williams would be a great fix now, but to spend a 1st on him AND have to give him a big contract is what continually gets the Jets in trouble.

There will be some RT options, but we literally need an entire starting line.  Kelechi starts at LG, and after that, you hope you might have something in Chuma to either start at RG or RT.  But we definitely need a starting LT and C, and probably a RG and RT as well.  That is realistically not getting all fixed in one year.

7 years of bad drafting in the NFL means many years of sitting in the basement.  Lets see if we can fix that over the next couple of years.

 

You can make quality FA signings of OL who are older look at Whitworth and the Rams 

 

Even our own history. Kendall, Faneca, Woody

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7 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Great story....

Can you go and find me a better choice at kicker, even though half this board wanted Vedvik earlier and wanted to trade draft capital to get him?  Then was able to get him for no picks. 

Its not Douglas' fault Vedvik missed the kick.  Its Vedvik.  And he was gone the next day.  Would Mac have cut him the next day?

Seriously guys....I get it.  But this is what happens when you drink Kool-Aid during pre-season, thinking we were going to the playoffs this year.  We start talking about firing a GM who hasn't even finished unpacking his belongings because he didn't fill the 5-6 starter positions needed and about 7-10 depth positions needed (to make us playoff ready), all while picking through the other 31 teams trash.

 

Seriously,  I have said this a lot. When the Jets were looking for a kicker, I wanted Janikowski.  He wasn't  a long term solution  but  you plug him in until you get one and if he was on the team, we beat the Bills.  He makes the PA and the FG Vedvik missed. I never wanted Vedvik, I never even wanted Fiken, I wanted Parky. Maybe Fiken works out and becomes the next Gotkowski or maybe he is the next Nugent. Parky was at least a  guy with experience.

And it wasn't  just the K. It was Kahlil. He is equally responsible for our O looking as bad as it did. JD got cute with this one. I'm going to point out that no other team would  have signed this guy. I understand there wasn't  a lot of solutions  at C but this guy at C was a freaking disaster. You combine this with the little talent we have on the OL, a guy that shouldn't  even be playing anymore and you have what you saw the last two games. Freaking jail breaks. 

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5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Seriously,  I have said this a lot. When the Jets were looking for a kicker, I wanted Janikowski.  He wasn't  a long term solution  but  you plug him in until you get one and if he was on the team, we beat the Bills.  He makes the PA and the FG Vedvik missed. I never wanted Vedvik, I never even wanted Fiken, I wanted Parky. Maybe Fiken works out and becomes the next Gotkowski or maybe he is the next Nugent. Parky was at least a  guy with experience.

And it wasn't  just the K. It was Kahlil. He is equally responsible for our O looking as bad as it did. JD got cute with this one. I'm going to point out that no other team would  have signed this guy. I understand there wasn't  a lot of solutions  at C but this guy at C was a freaking disaster. You combine this with the little talent we have on the OL, a guy that shouldn't  even be playing anymore and you have what you saw the last two games. Freaking jail breaks. 

And maybe he called Janikowski, but the Jets aren't actually an appealing situation to come out of retirement to (except for Kalil apparently).

Nothing wrong with trying Kahil, but he is clearly done.  Its up to Gase now to make the switch to Harrison.  So far, Ficken has made his one attempt, and has boomed his kickoffs.  So, if you are going to complain about Douglas because the kicker he signed missed his only two attempts, then you should be happy that the kicker he did sign made his only attempt, and not suggest the hypothetical guy you wanted would have done...what, better than make the only kicking attempt we had last game?

Douglas in no way shape or form is responsible for the lack of talent on this team.  That is solely on the shoulders of three individuals: John Idzik, Mike McCagnan, and the Johnson's for making those poor hiring decisions.  If this team is bereft on talent in another three years, then Joe Douglas is out the door and we are talking about the last three Jets GM's destroying the team.

Right now, we watch and see what is worth keeping.  We are picking in the top five next year, and possibly in the top ten in 2021.  We will hopefully be ready for the playoffs on Sam's final year of his contract.  It sucks, but that is what happens when you draft poorly for nine straight years.

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18 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

You can make quality FA signings of OL who are older look at Whitworth and the Rams 

 

Even our own history. Kendall, Faneca, Woody

Oh, I agree.  But I mean some of the better talent available is 37 and up.  I would be VERY hesitant to offer big money on that, unless of course they are one year stop gaps while we develop talent.

Develop talent....huh, what an idea!  We should try that, like other successful franchises do.

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5 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

And maybe he called Janikowski, but the Jets aren't actually an appealing situation to come out of retirement to (except for Kalil apparently).

Nothing wrong with trying Kahil, but he is clearly done.  Its up to Gase now to make the switch to Harrison.  So far, Ficken has made his one attempt, and has boomed his kickoffs.  So, if you are going to complain about Douglas because the kicker he signed missed his only two attempts, then you should be happy that the kicker he did sign made his only attempt, and not suggest the hypothetical guy you wanted would have done...what, better than make the only kicking attempt we had last game?

Douglas in no way shape or form is responsible for the lack of talent on this team.  That is solely on the shoulders of three individuals: John Idzik, Mike McCagnan, and the Johnson's for making those poor hiring decisions.  If this team is bereft on talent in another three years, then Joe Douglas is out the door and we are talking about the last three Jets GM's destroying the team.

Right now, we watch and see what is worth keeping.  We are picking in the top five next year, and possibly in the top ten in 2021.  We will hopefully be ready for the playoffs on Sam's final year of his contract.  It sucks, but that is what happens when you draft poorly for nine straight years.

This post boarders on the absurd.  Do you seriously  believe Janikowski  would be picking and choosing what teams he would kick for and what teams he would not? Have you ever been to a practice? The kickers are on there own field away from the rest of the team doing their own thing. No coaches, no supervision  of any kind, half the time they are just chatting with each other and during the game, they sit on the bench drinking Gatorade  and 5 or 6 times a a game they run out on the field and line up a FG attempt or a PA and then sit down again unless they have to kick off. They don't  even run hard down field  on a KO because they are the last guy to stop the returner if the rest of the ST players screw up and turn him loose. 

This isn't  exactly a job where you need to keep your body in tip top condition  or where you play a lot, it's  practically  what Janikowski  is doing right now, sitting down and watching  a football game. He would probably take a check form an Arena league team if they paid him enough. 

And as far as Ficken, he made one kick and he prevented a shutout against the Browns. Good for him. I hope he keeps it up but JD also could have signed Ficken instead of Vedvik as well. 

And I agree, the state of the talent on this team squarely  is on the last GM, I don't  even count Idzik anymore because Mac had ample opportunity  to wipeout his mistakes, but JD needs to do better than getting a K that gets benched in his first game and then cut, A C who gets benched in his second game, and an old WR that has clearly seen his best days already and came to the team with a Hamstring  injury and to make this worse, we traded a pick for him when we could have gotten him for nothing. He wasn't  good enough to get as a FA but when we have to trade a 6th round pick for him, he's  our guy. Isn't  Crabtree available. Hey, we could have signed Doug Baldwin or Jordy Nelson. So what they are retired and probably not fit to play. It didn't  stop him at C. 

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21 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

He's on the phone right now, working feverishly to tear this team down and accumulate every draft pick he can.

Nobody should be safe, except for Sam Darnold. Anyone who can bring back a 4th round or better draft pick should be traded. This team is worse then anyone thought. Adams, Leo, Mosely, Bell, Robbie (and I love these guys)... everyone. Tear it down. This team is 2 or 3 years away from competing for a Super Bowl IF Darnold becomes a FQB, so they have no value to us today. Give Sam a year, two tops to prove he can be the guy, because if he's not, what's the difference? We're going to be bad for even longer, and need even more picks.

Miami already has a jump on us with the way they're going about this season. We need to accumulate as much capital as we can for the '20 draft. There will be a lot of teams looking for QBs, and if we pick in the top 2 or 3 next year, we can trade down with one and accumulate even more picks. The worst case scenario is us finishing with 6 or 7 wins and not being able to trade back with one of those teams.

Get it done JD.

 

As soon as you mentioned trading Mosely and then Bell this year, is when you kind of lost me. I'm ok with seeing what you can get for Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams, but I can't see how Joe Douglas ever trades Mosely or Bell this year. Darnold needs Bell this year, and Mosely is our defensive leader we'll need to change the culture here. 

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2 minutes ago, Green DNA said:

If only we could accumulate 12 picks in the draft like we did a few years ago.  The rebuild would be almost complete with all those new stars.  

Accumulating picks is always a good thing when you're a non-contender.  Can't let the Idzik 12 dissuade you from doing that when it's possible to do so.  

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Accumulating picks is always a good thing when you're a non-contender.  Can't let the Idzik 12 dissuade you from doing that when it's possible to do so.  

Douglas' eye for talent hasn't wowed me in any way that would give me confidence in him making multiple picks. Granted, he inherited a sh*tshow but this franchise seems to be on a hamster wheel  

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21 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Nobody should be safe, except for Sam Darnold. Anyone who can bring back a 4th round or better draft pick should be traded. This team is worse then anyone thought. Adams, Leo, Mosely, Bell, Robbie (and I love these guys)... everyone. Tear it down. 

The only guy off this short list that I would trade is Leo. Let Robby walk. Sam still needs SOMETHING this season.

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You don't trade Adams it makes no sense, or Bell, or Mosely, you build off of these above average players. We just finished a game with our 3rd string QB, look at the Saints & Steelers when they lost their starting QB, both lost & both have better Olines than us. 

James Conner was 11 carries- 33 yards, JUJU 5-84, how about the Saints after losing Brees? Kamara 13 carries- 45 yards, Michael Thomas was 7 catches for 51 yards after Brees got hurt. 

Jets need to get Edoga going so he'll be ready to take a spot next year, Lets see if Harrison can man the middle for the time being, that's 2 spots, KO is signed that's 3 spots, sit Winters & see if Compton or Lewis can man the fort for a short time. Next year you see if Washingtons price comes down for Williams (Maybe a 2 which will be a high 2), that fills 4 spots on the line for 2020 & we draft Olineman. I would try to trade Robbie Anderson, should have traded him to the Eagles when we had a chance. We could target a top Guard, a CB & a vet WR in free agency & draft Oline & WRs & pray a pass rusher is on the board. This plan & the Jets are very competitive for 2020. LBs are set with Mosely, Jenkins, Hewitt, Copeland, Cashman. That's a damn good group. Safeties are set with Adams & Maye, slot CB (Poole). 

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38 minutes ago, Green DNA said:

Douglas' eye for talent hasn't wowed me in any way that would give me confidence in him making multiple picks. Granted, he inherited a sh*tshow but this franchise seems to be on a hamster wheel  

Can we give him 1 draft....can we?

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2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

This post boarders on the absurd.  Do you seriously  believe Janikowski  would be picking and choosing what teams he would kick for and what teams he would not? Have you ever been to a practice? The kickers are on there own field away from the rest of the team doing their own thing. No coaches, no supervision  of any kind, half the time they are just chatting with each other and during the game, they sit on the bench drinking Gatorade  and 5 or 6 times a a game they run out on the field and line up a FG attempt or a PA and then sit down again unless they have to kick off. They don't  even run hard down field  on a KO because they are the last guy to stop the returner if the rest of the ST players screw up and turn him loose. 

This isn't  exactly a job where you need to keep your body in tip top condition  or where you play a lot, it's  practically  what Janikowski  is doing right now, sitting down and watching  a football game. He would probably take a check form an Arena league team if they paid him enough. 

And as far as Ficken, he made one kick and he prevented a shutout against the Browns. Good for him. I hope he keeps it up but JD also could have signed Ficken instead of Vedvik as well. 

And I agree, the state of the talent on this team squarely  is on the last GM, I don't  even count Idzik anymore because Mac had ample opportunity  to wipeout his mistakes, but JD needs to do better than getting a K that gets benched in his first game and then cut, A C who gets benched in his second game, and an old WR that has clearly seen his best days already and came to the team with a Hamstring  injury and to make this worse, we traded a pick for him when we could have gotten him for nothing. He wasn't  good enough to get as a FA but when we have to trade a 6th round pick for him, he's  our guy. Isn't  Crabtree available. Hey, we could have signed Doug Baldwin or Jordy Nelson. So what they are retired and probably not fit to play. It didn't  stop him at C. 

If my post borders on absurd, then perhaps yours borders on the asinine.

Yeah, I do think Janikowski would pick and choose what teams he would come out of retirement for.  That's why you retire.  If you chose to leave your job, would you come out of retirement if Walmart called?  I didn't think so, and that is what the equivalent would be.  I am sure he's happy not kicking for the Jets, even if Douglas called.

So, again, your whole argument for being pissed off is Douglas signed a scrap heap kicker, who he had to go dumpster shopping for because the last GM didn't want to give $5 million to an all-pro, and he missed a field goal?  SHOCKING!  An unemployed kicker missed a field goal.  Maybe that is why he was unemployed.  But when you're hungry enough, you'll eat the table scraps from a restaurant and not bitch when it is not Filet Mignon.  Thank Mac for that mess.  He had the easy fix to that solution, but was too busy handing over $75 million to our CB who crapped the bed last year and rode the pine this week.  Maybe he would have had enough to pay an All-Pro kicker with a little more prudence and saavy.   

And unless you have bugs in Florham Park, you have no idea who he has called or haven't called.

And wouldn't THAT be a sh*t show if you did?  Then we'd have 50 posts screaming about the guys Douglas has contacted that we don't like.  

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3 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Oh, I agree.  But I mean some of the better talent available is 37 and up.  I would be VERY hesitant to offer big money on that, unless of course they are one year stop gaps while we develop talent.

Develop talent....huh, what an idea!  We should try that, like other successful franchises do.

You can use free agency to rebuild or improve an OL - even if it’s not a great FA class 

 

We have a ton of holes on offense not enough draft picks to fix the OL and get WRs plus we are God awful at CB 

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1 hour ago, Green DNA said:

Douglas' eye for talent hasn't wowed me in any way that would give me confidence in him making multiple picks. Granted, he inherited a sh*tshow but this franchise seems to be on a hamster wheel  

It’s naive to think Woody finally figured out how to evaluate and hire a GM

 

The only semi decent GMs Woody ever had he inherited from Parcells Bradway and Tannenbsum

 

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42 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

If my post borders on absurd, then perhaps yours borders on the asinine.

Yeah, I do think Janikowski would pick and choose what teams he would come out of retirement for.  That's why you retire.  If you chose to leave your job, would you come out of retirement if Walmart called?  I didn't think so, and that is what the equivalent would be.  I am sure he's happy not kicking for the Jets, even if Douglas called.

So, again, your whole argument for being pissed off is Douglas signed a scrap heap kicker, who he had to go dumpster shopping for because the last GM didn't want to give $5 million to an all-pro, and he missed a field goal?  SHOCKING!  An unemployed kicker missed a field goal.  Maybe that is why he was unemployed.  But when you're hungry enough, you'll eat the table scraps from a restaurant and not bitch when it is not Filet Mignon.  Thank Mac for that mess.  He had the easy fix to that solution, but was too busy handing over $75 million to our CB who crapped the bed last year and rode the pine this week.  Maybe he would have had enough to pay an All-Pro kicker with a little more prudence and saavy.   

And unless you have bugs in Florham Park, you have no idea who he has called or haven't called.

And wouldn't THAT be a sh*t show if you did?  Then we'd have 50 posts screaming about the guys Douglas has contacted that we don't like.  

You know forget about Janikowski,  why did he not bring Ficken in as the kicker for game 1. He was also available?

Did Ficken also turn the job down but had a change of heart?

Your whole argument is Janikowski was not interested in taking a job with the Jets? Why? Why would he not want to sign for a couple of million or even the Vet Minimum  which is over 600k? It's  an easy gig. The number 1 reason players retire is they want to relax. Janikowski relaxed for 19 years being a K. Have you seen him? Not exactly a Greek statue.  

Let's  just disagree.  Your position to me is ludicrous bit a team that was able to sign Mosley, Bell, Crowder, Williamson,  among others is not able to sign an old retired K. Makes perfect sense. 

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4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

You know forget about Janikowski,  why did he not bring Ficken in as the kicker for game 1. He was also available?

Did Ficken also turn the job down but had a change of heart?

Your whole argument is Janikowski was not interested in taking a job with the Jets? Why? Why would he not want to sign for a couple of million or even the Vet Minimum  which is over 600k? It's  an easy gig. The number 1 reason players retire is they want to relax. Janikowski relaxed for 19 years being a K. Have you seen him? Not exactly a Greek statue.  

Let's  just disagree.  Your position to me is ludicrous bit a team that was able to sign Mosley, Bell, Crowder, Williamson,  among others is not able to sign an old retired K. Makes perfect sense. 

Having Vedvik as opening day kicker is a firable offense

 

 

Seriously 

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