Is bad coaching or player injuries the bigger reason Jets are losing? Do you agree with Bob Wischusen?

[JetsFanatic]

It's not always mutually exclusive , but to think injuries aren't having impact is ridiculous. Luke Falk for Sam Darnold; Ryan Griffin for Chris Herndon are serious downgrades.  Also no Mosley and Williamson on defense is a kiiler. I like Blake Cashman but he is a fifth round rookie. 

It will be easier to scrutinize this team after the bye when most player are expected back.

[Jetster]

8 minutes ago, rangerous said:

much as i really don't want to see a revolving door at coach, they may have injuries but that's no excuse for the offense being so putrid.  the oline , by all accounts, is intact.  the same group has started for 3 games yet they still don't pass protect very well nor do they run block.  and even if the receiver corp is thin then call plays that play to the strength of the players on the field.  how many times do we have to see bell up the middle on first and 10?  it's awful predictable.

i'm not saying gase is the wrong guy or can't get this straightened out but at this point it's on him.  the injuries are just a lame excuse.

Where is Frank Pollacks blame regarding the Oline? 

[rangerous]

1 minute ago, Jetster said:

Where is Frank Pollacks blame regarding the Oline? 

it's baked into whatever criticism there is of gase.  something looks fundamentally wrong with the way the oline is playing.

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, rangerous said:

much as i really don't want to see a revolving door at coach, they may have injuries but that's no excuse for the offense being so putrid.  the oline , by all accounts, is intact.  the same group has started for 3 games yet they still don't pass protect very well nor do they run block.  and even if the receiver corp is thin then call plays that play to the strength of the players on the field.  how many times do we have to see bell up the middle on first and 10?  it's awful predictable.

i'm not saying gase is the wrong guy or can't get this straightened out but at this point it's on him.  the injuries are just a lame excuse.

Kelvin Beachum is in his 7th NFL season, help me understand specifically what coaching he was missing against Miles Garrett?

The line sucks because the Kahlil experiment failed, Osemele didn’t magically become the player he used to be because the Raiders traded him, and the last time we invested in the unit was a bakers dozen ******* years ago.

[section314]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

You are almost never down to your 6th round, 2nd year, third string, QB either.

True, but the Buffalo defense has shown through three games that they are better than last year, which is pretty damn impressive. We, also, needed our kicker to make one of the missed kicks and we're not even discussing week one as a loss.

Subjective.  I have been pretty f*cking down lately, to the point where I can't even get angry at the team or the sport of football.  I just get depressed.

It is 110% Maccagnans fault, but, to a larger degree it's on Christopher Johnson for letting Maccagnan run another off-season before firing him.

Quincy Enunwa and DT are pretty big blows to a team that now has to start Josh Bellamy and Braxton Berrios on the outside.

You're right. Doesn't really go much further than this.

[CTM]

12 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Yeah they were 16-0 the year before with Brady.  So you're saying that if Brady were there and they went 13-3 it would've been "the pig is ripe!"?

 13-3 wouldve had them in the playoffs with a bye instead of missing the playoffs all together. So no.

And that team against that schedule goes 14-2 minimum with Brady 

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, CTM said:

 13-3 wouldve had them in the playoffs with a bye instead of missing the playoffs all together. So no.

And that team against that schedule goes 14-2 minimum with Brady 

Yes but isn't 3 losses more than the season before a "big drop off"?  

[Bugg]

8 hours ago, fusionCA said:

Cleveland played tonight without the entire secondary 

all the starting corners and safeties were injured.

they signed players off the street to play( including Justin Burris) and yer were able to put a decent showing including an INT that almost gave them the win

coaching , it matters 

An argument from left field about how drafting safeties and signing high end corners over marshaling your resources for the OL makes no sense.  

[rangerous]

Just now, TeddEY said:

Kelvin Beachum is in his 7th NFL season, help me understand specifically what coaching he was missing against Miles Garrett?

The line sucks because the Kahlil experiment failed, Osemele didn’t magically become the player he used to be because the Raiders traded him, and the last time we invested in the unit was a bakers dozen ******* years ago.

beachum can't match against a guy like garrett.  few tackles can.  but the coaches could figure out schemes to negate garrett instead of letting beachum take the guy on himself.  i agree it's been a mistake to put kalil in there.  the oline has average talent.  they need to be coached up and put in positions to win.

[Bugg]

8 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Yes, but you're almost never THIS injured.

 

They were beating the undefeated (3-0) Buffalo Bills 16 - 0 before Mosely left and the D collapsed.

 

Quincy Enunwa

Demarius Thomas has not played a down yet.

[Bugg]

11 minutes ago, Jetster said:

They're not injured (well Winters is always banged up), they're either old & over the hill has beens, Kalil & Beachum, or underperforming overpaid Jags like Winters or slightly below average Jags like Shell. 

This is the worst Oline in football, Sam ran for his life last year & made them look better. The 2 slow cement shoed QBs that replaced him have exposed the Oline & just how bad they are. Beachum looks like his hasn't been in the weight room for YEARS, he's like having the Pillsbury dough boy at LT. 

Garrett is a great player. But an NFL LT cannot be bullrushed like that down after down. It cannot happen.

[ZachEY]

43 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I honestly think we'd be 2-1 (or 1-2 at worst) if Belichick was HC of the NYJ with this exact roster.  

Who cares?  Let’s concede the point, even though most don’t believe it, the Bill Belicheck would turn this team into winners.  Sure, fine, the guy who’s widely regarded as either the best coach of all time, or a tremendous cheater could make this team better.  Ok.  The fact that you can’t provide a realistic coach, and default to the best ever* only furthers the point.

[ZachEY]

11 minutes ago, rangerous said:

beachum can't match against a guy like garrett.  few tackles can.  but the coaches could figure out schemes to negate garrett instead of letting beachum take the guy on himself.  i agree it's been a mistake to put kalil in there.  the oline has average talent.  they need to be coached up and put in positions to win.

Schemes = double teams, and yes, you can do that, but it also comes at a significant cost, obviously.  Sometimes you need a guy to do his job.  Beachum is a bottom tier LT and you can’t hide him on every play vs. a top tier DE.

Average means 16th (roughly) best. Can you name 17-32?

[Jetster]

Jets fans this offseason: 

We have zero depth

Our drafting has been terrible for 10 years

Macc has totally ignored the Oline

Preseason:

Lose starting LB Avery Williamson for entire year, starting TE suspended for 1st 4 games, LB Copeland suspended for 4 games.

Season Starts:

Unbeknownst to Jet fans starting QB plays with Mono & has rough game vs top 3 defense, lose starting MLB up 16-0 & replace with 5th round Rookie, kicker misses xtra point & FG, lose by 1. 

Game 2- Backup cement shoed QB gets obliterated by a beast in Myles Garrett (most sacks in last 3 years), completely over matching an old sh*tty LT that WILL NOT BE A NY JET next year, finish the game with our 3rd string QB. 0-2.

Game 3- VS the best team in the NFL in Gillette, where we last won a game 9 years ago, and not 1 Jet fan here could tell us the team they lost to at home during the regular season to with a 3rd string QB & a rash of injuries. 0-3. 

Jet fans today:

FIRE GASE! JOE DOUGLAS SUCKS! 

Based on the circumstances these guys have started under, I have no idea how to evaluate them yet. This season so far is unprecedented. 

 

 

[joewilly12]

Injuries have played a major part but Adam Gase coaches scared and is a terrible play caller. 

[CanadaSteve]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I almost never agree with Bob because he can be an insufferable homer, but there's nothing I can disagree with here.

This will be the fifth time I've asked this forum to give me the name of a coach that can work with the circumstances and roster blows that Gase has had to deal with, while also playing 2 of the 3 best defenses in the league and a 3rd defense that is, also, very good.  I haven't gotten a single name.

If we still look this bad against the softer part of our schedule, with Sam, Mosely, Quinnen, and DT healthy, then we can have a further discussion on where the team goes next at HC.  Until then, it's pointless because no one can succeed under these conditions.

And not to point out the obvious, but we have a portion of the board now believing its time to move on from Joe Douglas because his kicker he picked up off the side of the road with a free sign hanging around his neck missed a field goal that would have made us 1-2.

Can't make this stuff up.

[Integrity28]

 It is not binary. These conversations are fruitless. 

[carlito1171]

Although I don't like Gase as a coach, I'm reserving most of my judgement until we get some key pieces back. Getting Darnold, Mosely, Quinnen and Herndon back after the bye is a huge deal.....this is a next man up league but we all know our depth is dogsh!t because of the last few predecessors and their inablilty to draft NFL caliber players

[bealeb319]

There is a thin line between holding players accountable and throwing them under the bus to save yourself and Gase has been on the wrong side of that. When he blames everything on the players than publicly comes out and says a guy who is on his first start gets the playbook but everyone else is lost...players are going to turn on him. Look at miami, his two best offensive players got traded away because they couldn't get along with Gase. I don't know why anyone would expect him to suddenly be a good coach and for him not to cause all types of drama here when it is clear he has done so in the past. The guy is a loser and will turn our team into a loser.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[FidelioJet]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I almost never agree with Bob because he can be an insufferable homer, but there's nothing I can disagree with here.

This will be the fifth time I've asked this forum to give me the name of a coach that can work with the circumstances and roster blows that Gase has had to deal with, while also playing 2 of the 3 best defenses in the league and a 3rd defense that is, also, very good.  I haven't gotten a single name.

If we still look this bad against the softer part of our schedule, with Sam, Mosely, Quinnen, and DT healthy, then we can have a further discussion on where the team goes next at HC.  Until then, it's pointless because no one can succeed under these conditions.

While I understand your point and don't necessarily disagree - but I was watching a team yesterday that seemed to have already given up.  

When you're outmanned the way The Jets are right now - I get it, it's tough to win..  But this team isn't showing any heart.  It's week 3 - that's on the coach.

 

[ZachEY]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

While I understand your point and don't necessarily disagree - but I was watching a team yesterday that seemed to have already given up.  

When you're outmanned the way The Jets are right now - I get it, it's tough to win..  But this team isn't showing any heart.  It's week 3 - that's on the coach.

 

How exactly would you go about motivating a multimillionaire kid to care when it’s not intrinsic and chances of success are next to nonexistent anyway? 

[fullblast]

1. Lack of talent, especially on the OL

2. Coaching

3. Injuries

[The Crusher]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

It is a little odd how this has all transpired...

With starters healthy (including Darnold and Mosely) Jets have a +16 point differential.

After Mosely got hurt and others have now gone down Jets have a - 53 point differential.

That’s because Mosley scored half of that 16 himself 

[FidelioJet]

21 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

And not to point out the obvious, but we have a portion of the board now believing its time to move on from Joe Douglas because his kicker he picked up off the side of the road with a free sign hanging around his neck missed a field goal that would have made us 1-2.

Can't make this stuff up.

Actually, the issue isn't that our kicker missed an extra point and FG - it's that he was terrible all through camp and yet Douglass didn't bring in any competition.  

I mean what did he expect was going to happen?  If your kicker keeps missing in the pre-season you shouldn't all of a sudden expect him to make kicks when they really count.

 Not having 2 or 3 more kickers in camp is mind boggling to me and very worrisome.

[The Crusher]

Just now, fullblast said:

1. Lack of talent, especially on the OL

2. Coaching

3. Injuries

Really? When Mosley went out in the Buffalo game that defense instantly tanked. 

[Obrien2Toon]

This is a horrible roster.

Mac tried to slap a bandaid on it (Bell, Mosley), and try to sneak his way to a 8-8 record and save his job 

thats the main problem, but Gase has been bad, and the injuries don’t help

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

How exactly would you go about motivating a multimillionaire kid to care when it’s not intrinsic and chances of success are next to nonexistent anyway? 

I'm not sure - but I'm not being paid millions of dollars to do it.   That's the job -

If he can't keep his team motivated to play - even when things are bad - then he shouldn't be a HC in NFL.  Find some other work.

[CSNY]

I believe that the injuries are part of the problem but not necessarily the biggest problem. The offensive line is the biggest problem. The constant excuse of poor communication and how they have just played three games together to me rings hollow. If the scheme is confusing the o line it is up to the coach to simplify it (as knock the guy in front four yards backwards and run the ball right behind him ). Will keep the quarterback upright and healthy and will keep defense off the field. For all the talk of how the game has changed ( and it has for the worse in my opinion)it still is relatively simple control the line of scrimmage and you have an excellent chance of winning the game 

[sec101row23]

Incredibly thin roster to start the season, especially on offense.  Again, this was probably a 7 win team when everyone wasn’t injured.  

[JustInFudge]

It's strange how Jets fans always feel this need to point the finger at one person or put the blame one thing or event.  

News flash; it's both coaching and injuries that are preventing the Jets from winning Football games. 

The injuries are killings us but the coaching is to inept to do anything about it.  Every team deal with injuries, many teams are playing with their back up QB, but there is 1 team in the NFL that has 1 TD over 3 games of Football. 

The team sucks, the injuries are bad but the coaching sucks too!

It's the perfect storm of sh*t. 

[Augustiniak]

20 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

This is a horrible roster.

Mac tried to slap a bandaid on it (Bell, Mosley), and try to sneak his way to a 8-8 record and save his job 

thats the main problem, but Gase has been bad, and the injuries don’t help

it's a horrible offensive roster.  period.

[BUM-KNEE]

Pretty hard to make a pork chop out of pigsh!t.

Let's see how we look after getting some bodies back in the games.

[DMan77]

I mean look, there are issues at depth, at the playmaker positions, at CB... If people want to throw Gase under the bus I get that too.

But for me it all filters down to the OL. I think a lot of the things that are killing the Jets (and us as fans) stem from a horrendous line. We have no time to let a play develop, we have QBs who are running scared on every play, there are no holes opening for Bell, opponents are rushing 3 or 4 and getting pressure, allowing them to sit 7 or 8 guys in coverage...

Robby said it in his post game. "It all starts upfront"... And he's right. Everything trickles down from there.

I don't think the Jets offense is this bad... With a half-way decent line I think we'd be in most of these games. But the talent just isn't there. They look both over-matched and lost out there. It's a bad combination. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, DMan77 said:

I don't think the Jets offense is this bad... 

the line is 5/11th of the offense.  they all need to be replaced.  maybe edoga can start at RT, maybe.

[chrisfaceoff]

I chose Injuries, but it is without a doubt a factor of both.  If there was options like this

25%  Coaching and 75% Injuries, I would have chosen that one.