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Gase Douglas: Want to send a message? Cut Leonard Williams

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On 9/23/2019 at 5:54 PM, jetscrazey said:

It's not just to send a message - it's also to free up a roster spot for someone who might actually have a future on this team beyond this season.  It's not like we'd be losing production, because Williams has been so awful.

Who, I want to know who on the team is not playing because of Williams?

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On 9/23/2019 at 5:39 PM, Creepy Lurker said:

His contract ruins his trade value. We can’t get anything for him. Might as well use him as a backup when Q comes back. 

If I am not mistaken, the Jets could actually take on a large portion of it and it would still save them money. He is just unwilling, not incapable but unwilling to do what it takes for greatness. 

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2 minutes ago, DonCorleone said:

If I am not mistaken, the Jets could actually take on a large portion of it and it would still save them money. He is just unwilling, not incapable but unwilling to do what it takes for greatness. 

Unwilling?  What makes you say that?  I think the only thing he is athletically top 10% is arm length.  Anderson's shuttle, cone, and jumps were all better.  Why does he get a pass as being willing? 

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On 9/23/2019 at 5:29 PM, joewilly12 said:

Trade him nows the time for JD to earn his salary and do his job, go at it hard and heavy call every team see what we can get for him. 

End this once and for all. 

Another DL #1 draft pick failure. 

Yeah, I'm sure all 31 NFL teams are LINING up to give assets for a player who everyone knows has an over-inflated contract with under-performing value.

He should get RIGHT on that.

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9 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yeah, I'm sure all 31 NFL teams are LINING up to give assets for a player who everyone knows has an over-inflated contract with under-performing value.

He should get RIGHT on that.

We couldn’t get a cup of warm urine for Leo now

 

6 months we ago we would have gotten a future 2nd round pick 

 

 

#management

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On 9/23/2019 at 9:34 PM, joewilly12 said:

Maybe we can fleece the  Washington Redskins their D looks awful bad. 

Adams, Leo and a mid round pick for Trent Williams and their 2020 first rd pick

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1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Adams, Leo and a mid round pick for Trent Williams and their 2020 first rd pick

No to Adams not a hater. 

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The Jets should consider any trade for Leonard that involves another team taking on a significant portion of his salary, which the Jets could roll into next season.  

If Kalil has incentive comp, I would bench him for the same reason.  

Unless someone is offering a decent draft pick, trading Robby does not make sense as he is cheap and can still help Sam.  If Sam is shelved for the year, which I support, I would trade Robby for whatever we can get for him.  

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24 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

We couldn’t get a cup of warm urine for Leo now

 

6 months we ago we would have gotten a future 2nd round pick 

 

 

#management

EXACTLY Phil!

We can't expect Douglas to get a bar of gold when he can't get a cup of warm urine.

Now, who was that GM a few months ago who could have probably got something for Williams? 

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1 minute ago, CanadaSteve said:

EXACTLY Phil!

We can't expect Douglas to get a bar of gold when he can't get a cup of warm urine.

Now, who was that GM a few months ago who could have probably got something for Williams? 

Douglas still is horrible 

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11 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Douglas still is horrible 

Well, that is where we are going to strongly disagree.

I will judge Douglas after three NFL drafts and FA periods, not three players he found on the side of the road saying "will work for food."

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11 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Well, that is where we are going to strongly disagree.

I will judge Douglas after three NFL drafts and FA periods, not three players he found on the side of the road saying "will work for food."

You defended Mac for several years now you’re white knighting a guy who thought Kaare Vedvik should be the starting kicker and gave Belichick a free draft pick

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Can’t expect JD to fix a problem years in the making within six months.
Macc was awful, without a doubt the worst GM in Jets history.
He captured lightning in a bottle
in 2015 but still fell short. The team should have been blown up back then and rebuild started.
Macc kept putting bandaids on a wound that called for stitches, so he never stopped the bleeding.
As a Jet fan for nearly 60 years
I’m not ready to throw JD under the bus because he took a shot with a kicker. Give him a couple of drafts and FA periods before we determine he sucks too.
I’m not overly optimistic,Ive seen this show before but please give JD and Gase a season or two to straighten things out.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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Theres an a** for every seat. 31 other NFL teams who previously took Sheldon Richardson and signed Mo Wilk there is a team that will trade for him. JD needs to find that team get whatever you can he is doing nothing for this defense. 

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Williams is the reincarnation of Shaun Ellis.   Only problem is Williams does not have a John Abraham as the pass rusher.   We all want Williams to be Aaron Donald or DT  in that mold... He is not.    Give Williams a pass rusher and he is the perfect compliment player.  He grades out pretty high by PFF for QB hits and hurries.  Imagine if there was a pass rusher like a Khalil Mack or Von Miller on this team.  Again I get what you want him to be and he doesn't fit your IDEA of what he is but reality is he is a very good player. And with no Q Williams not sure what he would look like until he gets paired with him.

 

With all that said.  I wouldn't be paying him the money he is probably looking for and I am not opposed to trading him if we can get a 3rd Rd pick for him

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31 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Well, that is where we are going to strongly disagree.

I will judge Douglas after three NFL drafts and FA periods, not three players he found on the side of the road saying "will work for food."

I think JD can get an initial grade at the open of training camp in 2020.   We will have an idea of how JD is doing then.  I do think he gets 3 off seasons before he is fired or extended.  

He and his staff hail from some of the best organizations in the NFL.  It would be completely unexpected if they can’t improve this team in a couple of years.  That is the good news.   This improvement only really starts in 2020.  What he has done so far is not great.  The initial kicker was not good and Kalil was a likely waste of valuable cap space.  If Ficken was on the team in week 1 the Jets would be 1-2.  

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4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You defended Mac for several years now you’re white knighting a guy who thought Kaare Vedvik should be the starting kicker and gave Belichick a free draft pick

Again dude, you are full of sh*t on this one.

I did not white knight Mac, okay?  That was your PERCEPTION.   Not sure how to capitalize that word anymore.   I said he needed three years, and said he did some things right.  That is not white knighting.  I can pull up all the criticisms if you like after the fourth draft he got, and botched.  I can pull up the criticisms about the FA.  But no, I said he has done some things right, and he made some correct picks, and you thought that meant I was bent over a table taking all that Mac could give me.   

There is nothing I can tell you to explain how stupid it is to think a GM at the highest levels of professional sport should be fired because he picked up a kicker off the street to help his team because the previous GM thought it was a brilliant tactical advantage to discard athepro-bowl kicker we had and replace him with a guy who retired.  I notice your line of thinking doesn't work about the current kicker he picked up who hasn't missed a thing BTW.  You get to bitch about Douglas without acknowledging the problem, for now, has been rectified, by the bit better garage sale find. 

If you honestly think that is white-knighting, have at it Phil.  Just change the flavor of the Kool-Aid once in awhile is all I ask.

Just so you know, I don't disagree with you about a lot of stuff.  In fact, it was a bad pick up.  A pick up instantly fixed by finding a kicker who has never missed.  Not bad really, batting .500 at a garage sale.  Wonder what he could do if given a chance?  We would never know if you were a Johnson, because you'd fire every GM after three months.

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1 hour ago, varjet said:

I think JD can get an initial grade at the open of training camp in 2020.   We will have an idea of how JD is doing then.  I do think he gets 3 off seasons before he is fired or extended.  

He and his staff hail from some of the best organizations in the NFL.  It would be completely unexpected if they can’t improve this team in a couple of years.  That is the good news.   This improvement only really starts in 2020.  What he has done so far is not great.  The initial kicker was not good and Kalil was a likely waste of valuable cap space.  If Ficken was on the team in week 1 the Jets would be 1-2.  

Sure....Great, now lets play a game.

You're Joe Douglas.  You are handed the keys to the NY Jets.  The team you have has drafted poorly nine straight years.  You are bereft of talent everywhere, but you have a kid wonder QB who you think "MIGHT" be a great one, but you can't tell right now.  The last guy who had his name on the office door just left you in a bit of a state.  The kicker you had retires after missing a field goal, and the other guy isn't very good.  SO, you need a kicker and you go dumpster diving.  You get the kicker that 90 PERCENT of this board wanted you to get AND give up a pick to get him (which you don't do).  He misses a PAT and a field goal that costs you the game.  You fire him the next day and replace him with a guy who hasn't missed anything yet. 

BUT....the masses think you should be fired.  Sounds kinda stupid now when it is said from that perspective, doesn't it?

I am not saying you want him fired.  But there sure are a lot on this board that thinks this way.  We fire Douglas after three months, the next candidate to want to take that job might be some 17 year old who plays Madden a lot.

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5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol, he wishes.  

Ellis with Abraham in his first 4 years had 31 sacks... Williams with no Pass rusher in his first 4 years 17 sacks.   Ellis Tackles for loss first 4 years 34, Williams TFL 32.   QB HIts weren't tracked till Ellis was 6-7 years into his career But his yearly career average was 7.5... Williams so far is averaging 21.25 a year.   And that's my point in a nut shell..  If Williams had any kind of pass rusher to be paired with his sack numbers would be significantly higher.  we can't quite say for sure but logic says if there was a pass rusher on the other side of Williams he would have at least 6-7 more sacks a year. 

 

But again you want Williams to be Aaron Donald, he is not, he is more Shaun Ellis if not better. He is a compliment player. 

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27 minutes ago, lounap23 said:

But again you want Williams to be Aaron Donald, he is not, he is more Shaun Ellis if not better. He is a compliment player. 

not slammimg you post. you made some interesting observations.

my point, is that LW is simply not strong enough...check this pick w/ and w/o pads...  Ellis' upper body and shoulders more stout, less belly ( i am allowed to say that now that i went and got fat)

104af089ba19471a44396127acb31fca.jpg

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24 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

not slammimg you post. you made some interesting observations.

my point, is that LW is simply not strong enough...check this pick w/ and w/o pads...  Ellis' upper body and shoulders more stout, less belly ( i am allowed to say that now that i went and got fat)

104af089ba19471a44396127acb31fca.jpg

Like I said he is a compliment player.

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6 minutes ago, lounap23 said:

Like I said he is a compliment player.

You sir have no idea what your talking about. I know which #92 I’d sooner have, and it isn’t the one we currently have.

Shaun Ellis was moved to DT and it affected his production. He was later moved back to DE.

He finished he career on a very respectable 73.5 sacks. He could contain the edge, and was more than handy with 11.5 and 12.5 seasons.

He had an 8 sack year after Abraham left. These are numbers that slouch Leonard Williams can only dream of. 

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7 hours ago, lounap23 said:

Williams is the reincarnation of Shaun Ellis.   Only problem is Williams does not have a John Abraham as the pass rusher.   We all want Williams to be Aaron Donald or DT  in that mold... He is not.    Give Williams a pass rusher and he is the perfect compliment player.  He grades out pretty high by PFF for QB hits and hurries.  Imagine if there was a pass rusher like a Khalil Mack or Von Miller on this team.  Again I get what you want him to be and he doesn't fit your IDEA of what he is but reality is he is a very good player. And with no Q Williams not sure what he would look like until he gets paired with him.

 

With all that said.  I wouldn't be paying him the money he is probably looking for and I am not opposed to trading him if we can get a 3rd Rd pick for him

Spot on.

Williams is not the problem with this team. Sure, he hasnt been a game changer. How many 315lb D-tackles are? There's maybe 4 or 5 in the entire league. He's a good player but one who has under performed given his draft slot.    

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43 minutes ago, lounap23 said:

Like I said he is a compliment player.

yes, decent v run, useless to get sacks <<< shaun ellis

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41 minutes ago, Barton said:

Spot on.

Williams is not the problem with this team. Sure, he hasnt been a game changer. How many 315lb D-tackles are? There's maybe 4 or 5 in the entire league. He's a good player but one who has under performed given his draft slot.    

He is the problem. His attitude is a losing one. His play brings nothing to the table. Nothing a late round pick couldn’t do. 

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On 9/23/2019 at 5:38 PM, Bruce Harper said:

He is fairly highly regarded around the league.  He could fetch something.  Waiving him would be dumb.

I agree with you completely, and quite frankly don't understand the hate for him on this board.  He had not lived up to what we would have hoped he would be, but I do feel that he is a solid player nonetheless.

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