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Philc1

Rex: Baker Mayfield “overrated as hell”

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1 hour ago, rex-n-effect said:

The what if around if the Jets had drafted Russell Wilson instead of Hill are interesting. Would Wilson have done any better with the wepponz available to him on this team at the time? Could Rex get away with benching Sanchez and his giant contract for Wilson? Would Wilson have performed well enough to keep Rex in his job and if so, would the team have performed better than the 8-8 and 6-10 seasons it had with Sanchez/Geno?

I think Rex would have found a way to trip over his own dick on offense short of having a QB who can act as an independent OC on the field and override Rex and his rotating cast of OCs. Wilson probably gets traded away to another team where he has better success but probably not the success he has had with Seattle.

Tyler Lockett would be Jeremy Kerley if he was on the Jets. Elite QBs make their own weaponz, not the other way around.

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10 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

It;s interesting cos RW is good. Jussst slightly below elite, IMHO. coudlnt do diddly w/ Graham at TE.

I see him as elite he doesn’t really use the TE much not sure if scheme or preference 

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11 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Hold on.  From a certain perspective it could be argued that Rex Ryan knows QBs better than just about anybody.  I can't ever recall a two week stretch in the postseason where a guy limited both Peyton Manning and Tom Brady on their home fields.  I vividly remember the announcer during that playoff game in Indy saying something like, "And here's Peyton Manning, hasn't been sacked in 3 weeks...."  the next play Rex schemes an easy sack against him.  Tom Brady hadn't thrown an INT in something like 200 pass attempts heading into that game.  1st Quarter, David Harris picks him off.  Every body said to pressure Brady, Rex wrote a totally different 2nd Half game plan for that day and at one point was dropping like 9 guys into coverage and suffocated any places Brady wanted to throw the ball.

And it's not just those two games, although they were the pinnacle.  He made life very, very tough on Aaron Rodgers and other elite passers (15 for 34, 0 TDs and a 59 Rating).  The year prior he went into San Diego against a Philip Rivers in his prime and held him to 1 TD, 2 INTs and a 76 rating.

There's a lot we can criticize Rex about but he knows QB tendencies, he knows how to defend them and in that regard, he really is a great evaluator of a QBs strengths and weaknesses.

Rex is cocaine. If you need to get up for one big moment, take a snort and come out swinging. Problem is you feel like trash the day after and it loses its effectiveness as time goes on.

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11 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Because Russell Wilson is a phenomenal athlete who makes Mayfield look like a garden slug in comparison.

Wilson does David Copperfield-esque sh*t outside the pocket throwing on the run.

Drew Brees is the only sub-6’2 QB I’ve ever seen who can consistently stay in the pocket and play at a high level. 

This has been a MAJOR issue for Mayfield so far.

It was a major issue for Brees in the beginning also. Mayfield had a much stronger 1st year than Brees and so far their 2nd year is looking extremely similar...

 

Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
2019 Cleveland Browns 5 161 90 55.9 32.2 1,247 7.7 249.4 4 2.5 8 5.0 89T 19 3 16 128 68.5
 
2018 Cleveland Browns 14 486 310 63.8 34.7 3,725 7.7 266.1 27 5.6 14 2.9 71 52 9 25 173

93.7

 

2003 San Diego Chargers 11 356 205 57.6 32.4 2,108 5.9 191.6 11 3.1 15 4.2 68T 28 5 21 178 67.5
 
2002 San Diego Chargers 16 526 320 60.8 32.9 3,284 6.2 205.2 17 3.2 16 3.0 52T 40 4 24 180 76.9

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20 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

That’s all good and great 

It still doesn’t change the fact that there have been plenty of 6’1 or smaller QB’s in the NFL and Brees is the only one who has had sustained success playing from the pocket.

Fran Tarkenton, Doug Flutie, Michael Vick, Jeff Garcia, Russell Wilson, etc.

All of them have needed to consistently roll out of the pocket to find open passing lanes. And every one of them was a better athlete than Mayfield with the exception of maybe Jeff Garcia, who I’ve compared Baker to in the past.

And so far, Mayfield is no exception. As soon as his first read is covered he’s patting the ball, panicking and looking to take off and play backyard football.

Yeah I'm not arguing that Mayfield is Brees, the post just made me curious and was surprised how similar their second years as starter are and figured I'd share it.

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9 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

You can not compare QB numbers in the NFL today with 2002. This is especially so when the 2002 QB was playing for Marty Shottenheimer.

You can compare anything you like, what you are suggesting is that context is important in such comparisons. That is always true. Nevertheless, your statement doesn’t completely invalidate that these numbers are interesting and do tell a story, especially when you consider in the next year—also under Schottenheimer—Brees had numbers that were much more Drew Brees-ian. 65% completion, 3-to-1 TD-to-INT ratio, +100 QBR. To me the numbers paint a clear picture of a young player for whom it was starting to click, that could also be Mayfield. Sophomore slumps are quite common, almost expected. The big point here is that the jury is still out on Mayfield.

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17 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Agreed. Just like you can compare a duck-billed platypus to GN-z11, you can also compare Brees playing in the 2002 version of the NFL to Mayfield playing in the 2018 version of the NFL. And both comparisons are virtually worthless.

I guess you’re also not a fan of the entire field of comparative history. Interesting things can be learned by comparing vastly different things: Ancient Roman legal system versus Colonial British legal system, as one of 100,000,000 examples. Don’t think the NFL in 2002 and 2019 are as different as those two.

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8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Surprising.  As we've seen Mayfield perform well with another coach, and yet, we absolve our players of blame for their own ineptitude, despite never succeeding before or after, with different coaching.   Very, very interesting.

Freddie Kitchens might just suck he started 2018 as a RB coach for goodness sake

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4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

good.  Because nothing has changed.  You are a walking billboard for an opposing team's QB here on a Jets Board.  You've been promoting him here for a long time now, yet you deny it.  Maybe you can fool yourself, but not others, pal.   Go Mayfield!  Rah-rah for Baker.  

Just as valid: why does it bother you so much?

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26 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I beg to differ. Comparing QB numbers in the NFL from 2002 to 2019 is like comparing baseball homerun numbers for particular player in 2019 and 1992, when the MLB totals were 6,776 to 3,038. 

We’ll have to muddle through without your input, I guess. 

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42 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

said the neanderthal to the homosapien 

Apparently I’m too dense to comprehend why you’re getting nasty about this.

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8 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

You forgot the step where Baker gets 4,000 endorsement deals and idiots in the media call him a better Drew Brees because he beat the jets

Actually, it was Drew Brees who said he believes Baker would be better than Drew Brees.

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1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

And Drew Brees was wrong

Definitely possible, however, how does that make the media idiots for reporting it?

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4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You take that back right now Phil!

They don’t want a debate. First it was media is dumb for comparing Baker and Drew Brees. When it was pointed out that it was Brees himself making this comparison, they shift to “Drew Brees is wrong.” Trying to nail Jello to the wall would be more productive.

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

If the QB isn't an NFL player, hard for anyone else to look like one.  Seeing Luke Falk play is the reason you didn't see Hackenberg play.

I'm wasn't a fan of the Gase signing, but Jets fans haven't skipped a beat since Bowles.  Sooner or later, you'd think it would dawn on some people that bringing Macc's pop warner squad to an NFL game isn't going to produce results, regardless of the coach.

Yep. Good QBs make their own weapons not other way around. 

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8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You called the people who tagged you "trolls", dude.  If you want to have an uninterrupted private chat with Villain use the PM option.  

"Troll" has become the online equivalent of calling someone "racist" in a debate. The utterer thinks it grants them an instant win, but in reality it says a lot more about them than about the other person.

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9 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

How about pointing out that Baker has the 3rd lowest qb rating in the NFL despite having OBJ, Landry, Chubb and Njoku?  Does that grant an “instant win?”

Finally an actual fact to debate. 

Baker’s sophomore slump would be explained away as easily as a fart in a dog kennel were we talking about a Jets QB. Browns have an awful OL (true) and Freddie Kitchens is way over his head as HC (also true).

How can we denigrate a QB who has shown he can perform at a high level and is having a sophomore slump while praising to the rafters a QB who has failed to launch thus far?

I’m not saying Mayfield is great or even better thank Darnold, I’m just saying we don’t have enough information to say he sucks, either. Apparently that makes me a Darnold hater or Baker lover.

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6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

This is more than a sophomore slump this is the real guy

 

He’s no longer facing soft Big 12 defenses

Guess I don’t understand the literal definition of sophomore slump then!

But seriously, we will see. You have your very biased opinion and I have mine. It’s too early to tell.

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

RG3 and VY, also of the Big 12, had tough sophomore slumps too after great rookie years where they became the face of the nfl

And Drew Brees had a sophomore slump with basically identical stats to Baker this year and a worse first year as a starter to boot. We can all come up with examples on both sides of this thing; none of them mean a thing to this QB’s future.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

3-INT day and another loss for the 2nd most unlikable player in the league. Ho hum.

 

If this keeps up and Sam balls out like he did today, this thread will never end.

Yup you know how JN works next good game Baker has, it’ll be a victory lap in the opposite direction for a week. Then back the other way. Etc ad infinitum.

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55 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Yeah, but at this point it may take a couple good games before any lap walking. Sure, the first half of the season has been brutal but this dude has yet to play a 2019 game without throwing an interception. He needs to put together a solid game first before any lap walks by the opposition is stopped, another for us Mayfield fanboys to start smiling and talking smake. He needs more relevant performances like in that Baltimore game, but without hurting his team. 

You know it's bad when you're making Jameis Winston look like a guy who secures the football. 

I love the dude as a QB, but he has to step it the hell up, and at this point, everyone is correct in their assessment because he is playing like sh*t. And he's a much better QB than this. 

Agree but that's not how this place operates. If Geno wins a flag football game this weekend, there will be a lotta told-you-so's on here Monday.

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25 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Been a while since he’s had one of those

Hopefully never again :)

But this is the NFL, he will ebb and flow, and the victory laps will continue on and on.

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